Am I imagining things

[humperdinck]

Hi everyone,

This is probably a stupid question and I apologise in advance for that. I have been working with a counsellor to help me deal with my resentment towards my husband, and she pointed out that his behaviour is abusive.

He doesn’t hit me.

I grew up in an abusive home and I know what it looks like.

I am not a victim.

But, after (detail removed by Moderator) years of marriage, I am starting to wonder.

We do have issues. He doesn’t help around the house at all except when I start thinking it may be time to make a move. (It’s weird how he knows, as I literally never mention it.)

When I try to talk about the fact that I can’t be expected to be the sole parent, sole provider, and do all the housework, he turns it around on me and makes me feel like I don’t respect him or treat him like a husband. He even says our daughters don’t see him as a dad – which is very unfair as they love him and love trying to spend time with him.

If he doesn’t turn it around, he sulks, storms out, or just zones out. He’s even gone to sleep in the middle of a discussion.

We don’t ever fight, and I never raise my voice to him, although he has shouted at me. He also shouts at the girls. He throws things and breaks things and swears. Once he grabbed a hair brush and smacked my daughter hard on the leg for not sitting up straight at the dinner table! (detail removed by Moderator) he was trying to put a Christmas decoration and tripped over his foot. He threw the couch and the bookshelf, and smashed a bunch of ornaments, including a large vase. Then he shouted at our daughters to clean up the mess. I was at work and only heard about it all when I came home.

He ignores us. I don’t think he means to but he’s always distracted and he barely hears anything we say – less than 10%, I’d say. He never remembers what we’ve said, either, and then accuses me of not telling him things (eg: our plans for the weekend), even when we’ve had a detailed discussion about it. The girls feel neglected and try desperately to be amazing so that he will notice them. The thing is, they ARE amazing – and not just in an ‘I’m-a-biased-mom’ kinda way. They’re teaching themselves foreign languages like (detail removed by Moderator) and (detail removed by Moderator), and learning to develop computer games and write novels – and they’re only in their (detail removed by Moderator)! But anyway, they’re amazing because they are, and they shouldn’t need to do anything to prove it to anyone… least of all their own Dad.

My older daughter said she feels like she has two caring, involved parents – and they’re both me! I don’t mind being there for her, not at all. I love it! But I hate the idea that they feel like his indifference is their fault.

He calls me fat and implies that I am stupid and don’t know what I’m doing. This is a little unfair as I am fairly intelligent and was excelling at university when we met (he persuaded me to quit).

He has no friends and prefers not to leave the house if he can help it. And he almost never cleans up. When he does, it’s usually a half-hearted attempt at doing a couple of dishes and ‘leaving the rest to soak’. For weeks. I was very sick with (detail removed by Moderator) for the past few weeks, and he is unemployed, but even though I had to go to work so that we could have money to survive, I still had to cook the meals and get the kids to school, too. Suffice it to say the house only got cleaned when I got better.

He’s addicted to pornography and watches it whenever he can – even if the girls are in the house! The idea repulses me and I find it hard to be intimate with him.

Just reading this list, I can’t work out if I’m an idiot for nor having noticed the problems and left ages ago, or if I’m just an overreacting hypochondriac. I don’t really talk about this to anyone so I don’t think I’m looking for attention. But I do wonder if perhaps my perspective is way off.

Also, it’s a bit unfair not to present his side of things. But, honestly, I have no idea what that would be. He refuses to engage in any discussion about our relationship at all. And I promise: I’m ALWAYS gentle and kind and patient with him. I know he’s depressed and I do everything I can not to provoke him. (I don’t nag and I actually don’t often ask for help around the house anymore as it makes him angry and he sulks and takes his anger out on things around the house.)

Can anyone shed some light?

[SunshineRainflower]

He sounds like he really takes advantage of you and has done for years. Expecting you to go out to work to cover all the bills yet also expecting you to somehow do all the housework is a type of financial abuse. Shouting at you, throwing and breaking things, blaming you for everything, turning it round on you, sulking, silent treatment and storming out are signs of physical and emotional abuse, as is calling you fat and stupid and encouraging you to give up your studies.

It sounds like you have a good counsellor who understands the dynamic and it is starting to make sense, don’t doubt or dismiss yourself, listen to your gut feeling. Look up the power and control wheel in google and see if it rings any bells. Also look up Living with the Dominator by Pat Craven, she has some videos on youtube that are really good too all about the different elements of abusive relationships and the types of behaviour that abusers exhibit. And give the helpline a call too as they understand the dynamics very well and can help you work through the confusion and plan any next steps if you decide to leave.

Your daughters sound wonderful, and it sounds like a toxic environment for you and them to be in. It sounds like they are learning to desperately seek approval from their disinterested father which is not healthy and it is something they should never have to do, as love should be unconditional. Don’t feel you have to put up with being treated like this, the pornography addiction sounds terrible too, and highly inappropriate/worrying that he does this when the children are in the house.

[KIP.]

Abuse comes in many guises so don’t believe just because you experienced abuse as a child that you’re not being abused now. In fact if you have experienced abuse in the past it can become to feel normal in later life or you can believe that because it wasn’t as bad as then, it can’t be abuse.

There’s a good book ‘Living with the Dominator’ by Pat Craven. Your can ring or pop into your local women’s aid too or ring the helpline. Google ‘gaslighting’. My ex used to lie to my face saying I’d said things that I hadn’t. Just to give him a reason to belittle and abuse. They look for and imagine things to abuse us about. To pass blame onto us. It’s a shame for your children but they need to realise he knows one hundred percent what he is doing. And it’s not their fault. Abuse always gets worse. Does he destroy his own personal belongings when angry? He knows exactly what he is doing. All planned.

[KIP.]

He doesn’t have to hit you for it to be abuse. The Fear of violence kept me quiet and keeping the peace for years. Changing my behaviour to try to avoid a terrifying outburst. Coercive control.

[duvetday]

hi humperdinck,
I promise you are not an idiot or a hypochondriac! <3 It sounds like your partner is abusive, it seems like part of you knows this but it can be so hard to know it for sure, to really believe that inner voice that is telling you something isn’t right. It’s so hard to face the truth when there is abuse because you normally also feel like you love that person and it’s a total mindf**k. Like SunshineRainflower said, it sounds like you have a good counsellor and they are recognising the dynamic you and your partner have. Definitely continue working with your counsellor and if you feel up to it contact Women’s Aid, the national d.abuse helpline and/or google your local domestic abuse hub/service to see about getting some help. Like KIP said, abuse does NOT mean just physical abuse in the way that a lot of people think about it- someone beating you up for example. Physical abuse can include someone smashing objects in front of you and also it’s possible to be abused without any physical abuse (in my case there was hardly any physical abuse and I think that’s why it took me so long to recognise what was happening).
Also, presenting his side of things….this is irrelevant in cases of abuse honestly. There are no ‘two sides’ when one person is being abused by another. Take care x

[humperdinck]

Thank you so much for all the amazing encouragement. I have literally been in tears reading your messages of support.

So, here’s the next question: how bad is this for my girls? I know first hand the devastation of a broken home and that’s the last thing I want for them. But maybe this is worse? I’m starting to feel like it really, really is.

On the other hand, I don’t want to put them through the pain and trauma of having to testify against him and recount any of this. It’s terribly unfair to make them complicit in something that would hurt, shame, or remove their Daddy – even if it IS in their best interests. How can I best protect them?

(My eldest daughter told me she feels like she DOES have two engaged, attentive, invested, loving parents. They’re just both me… So maybe that can hold them together? Am I fooling myself?)

[KIP.]

It sounds like they wouldn’t notice if he wasn’t there. Trouble is once you try to leave a man like that he will try to use the children to gain control. It’s harmful because they see his behaviour as normal and so a future abusive partner will seem normal too. Ring the helpline number on here. Don’t let him know you are considering ending things as that’s when they are most dangerous. When losing control. A broken home is better than an abusive one. Sounds like you’re parenting for two anyway. What does he truely bring to the relationship?

[Freedomfighter]

Hi Humperdinck,
From what you said in your initial post, your relationship sounds a lot like mine except mine works and has always earned more and rubbed my nose in the fact telling me I couldn’t survive without him.
Like you I tried my best to make up for his lack of interest. When they were older he spent time and a lot of money doing things he wanted to do with them. The trouble was my younger son wasn’t all that interested which caused a lot of trouble. I would always jump in saying we can’t help what we like and dislike. Everyone’s different, but then get it in the neck for interfering and going against him etc. I tried to protect my sons from what was going on and tried to keep the peace all the time or draw his anger towards myself.
The upshot was they were both aware that he lies and manipulates and controls me. My eldest has told me not to let him and used to stick up for me, they both do. Unfortunately I’d already told him I wasn’t happy and was leaving if he didn’t stop lying and start trying to salvage something of our marriage. He denied everything, refused to even acknowledge that we have problems other than the crazy paranoid delusions in my head and me keeping him at arms length. Since then he’s been working on my eldest son convinced him I’m hysterical and imagining things etc, that he loves me dearly and just wanted me to get help for my delusions. So please heed everyone’s warning he will use your daughters to gain control and make you stay. I m not staying, I am still planning to leave, just had a set back with stress. My younger son believes the bits I’ve told him as he’s survivor of his fathers abuse and his grandfather. We’re leaving together when the time comes. As for my eldest, I haven’t given up hope but feel that he’s taking his fathers side, believing him. I can’t blame him, he’s had me fooled and believing his lies for decades. My son is intelligent and has a good heart. I haven’t told anyone about what has/is going on, so he’s not in possession of all the facts. I’m never likely to tell him All the truth. I just can’t ever imagine telling anyone, not family or friends. It’s so so hard telling counsellor and women’s aid and lawyer etc and I know they hear it all the time. I told my mother a few things as she’d already guessed somethings. It broke my heart seeing her so upset. What I told her didn’t seem all that bad in the bigger picture. So I don’t want to say anything now.
I’ve realised through counselling I’ve allowed people to coerce me all my life, because I want to fit in and be liked and find it hard to say no to people. Most take advantage of this
I thought it was perfectly normal and everyone did it. Physical abuse is easy to see, easily proved, psychological and emotional abuse is much harder for us to see and how to prove it when he denies everything. Mine always ‘forgets’ or says he hasn’t heard me. You can’t argue, discuss or find solutions if they just deny all knowledge all allegations etc. Kip’s right they know exactly what they are doing/saying. It’s all about control, they have to have total control over you, your children, money, even down to what you watch on TV, mine just talks all the way through things I want to watch until I give up and give him the remote. Look up the signs of psychological and emotional abuse, you’ll see the similarities in your own marriage. Just don’t let him know what you’re doing. Mine’s ramping up his caring act at present so I’m playing along, but watching all the predicted behaviour and making a note of it. Good luck, keep posting and finding help and support

[humperdinck]

Wow, Freedom fighter, what you describe is so familiar. Mine is also being so nice and engaged and kind… It’s like he senses my changing attitude. But when I try to address some of our issues, he immediately turns it around and belittles me and tries to show me how crazy I am and how flawed my perspective is. It helps to know this is ‘normal’in the circumstances. Kip, thank you for your insights. It’s really hard to believe he knows what he’s doing. All these years, I’ve just been telling myself he simply doesn’t realise how hurtful he’s being. Now I wonder.

[KIP.]

He absolutely knows how hurtful he is. Ask yourself who else he abuses? His boss, his friends, his neighbours? So he can control his temper around others? Why not you? Does he abuse you in front of his friends and neighbours and family. No he keeps control until there are no witnesses. Planned abuse that he know he is doing. You will get nowhere arguing with an abuser. They just twist everything. Look up Gas Lighting and the Cycle of Abuse x

[Freedomfighter]

Hi Humperdinck,
I didn’t believe it either when my counsellor said it sounds awfully like abuse. I too went home and started searching, even then I wondered if I was exaggerating, it was only my side, my interpretation of things. What I would suggest is that you listen carefully to what he actually says, make a note of things he says that don’t quite fit, or doesn’t feel right, the things he does etc. Compare them to the things you read on here or sites, books, videos etc
Think about these things with a view of could this be abuse, has he got hidden agendas, what does he really mean by that. I’ve always avoided doing it, buried my head in the sand and tried to make it work. I was shocked. I started thinking about incidents from the past and doing the same, looking for the cycles, gaslighting etc and it was all there including the denial, refusing to take responsibility for his bad behaviour, even his apologies weren’t real. He would say things like ‘I’m sorry I made you cry, but you make me so angry’ he wasn’t apologising for the hurtful things he said or yelling and swearing in my face, just that he took it too far and made me cry and even then added that it was my fault. In other words he wasn’t taking responsibility for any of it. I just assumed he was because he said ‘sorry’. They are very clever with their words and when they find a formula that works they keep repeating it. We all make mistakes, all say and do things in the heat of the moment, but if something upsets a person we love/care about we’re careful not to repeat that mistake. When they keep repeating that same ‘mistake’ it’s not a mistake, not a thoughtless comment/action it’s abuse and it’s done on purpose to hurt us, belittle us, chip away at our confidence and keep control of us. It’s a heartless,cruel act which a loving husband wouldn’t keep doing. Don’t under estimate him, or what he’s capable of. Keep reminding yourself of the worst things he’s done. Mine would sometimes wait days or aweek before punishing me for something I’d said or done. If I then accused him of doing it on purpose to embarrass or humiliate me he’d tell me I was paranoid. I ended up punishing myself, he didn’t have to bother. Sad but true. Be careful and look after you and your amazing daughters. Don’t tell him and don’t listen to his lies about self harm. If yours is anything like mine he’d be too full of his own self importance to do that. They tend to be (detail removed by moderator), but desperately need you to constantly reassure them you love and respect him. He needs to feel in control
I’ve stopped arguing outwardly (mostly), I just go with the flow. If he ignores me fine I have a peaceful night. If he’s itching for a fight, I keep my head down keeping quiet.
Speak to the helpline, Women’s Aid, read , keep going to counselling. It can be tough and you’ll doubt yourself sometimes, but you will get there. Try to go slowly, give yourself time to take it in and act normally. But watch for changes and red flags. Don’t put yourselves in danger. Good luck

[SoundingElement]

There are a lot of similarities between what you’ve written and a relationship I’ve just left. You should most definitely not feel like an idiot. I found I became normalised to a lot of these behaviours in my relationship, hence tended to rationalise and accept it rather than challenge it. Similar to you, when I did I wasn’t listened to or acknowledged anyway. The only thing that made me realise they weren’t ok was when I told others. You’ve done absulotely the right thing posting on here! Especially because of how it is making your girls feel. I’d suggest to start making a note of anything he does which you don’t feel is quite right. Like KIP kindly suggested, it might help to identify cycles of abuse. I wish I had done that sooner to identify abusive behaviours I accepted willingly. It sounds like he is taking advantage as well as belittling you.

[Author]

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