Being assertive with boundaries

[Peaceful Pig]

I’m getting some practice with setting boundaries lately. It seems I’m in need of it as I still don’t feel comfortable. I’m trying not to be disappointed in myself.

The first situation was when a male friend/neighbour came round for a cup of tea and to help me with something. Usually his wife comes too but she’s unwell at the moment. They are older and retired so they have time to help. They live nearby and have been very kind and helpful as I have no family. They tend to give me a hug because they’re those kind of people which I don’t mind. I’ve slowly got used to the idea of hugging friends. Anyway on this last occasion he hugged me randomly a few times whilst he was here and when he arrived he gave me a kiss on the cheek which ‘accidentally’ almost caught my lips. I’m a bit horrified, mostly because I didn’t do or say anything about it at the time. When he left I felt terrible and cried. I’m so disappointed after taking the risk of letting them into our lives after a long time of knowing them. I don’t know if there’s any hope for me. I’m not safe near anyone and it feels no-one can be trusted. He’s probably the only man I come into regular contact with – I made an exception due to his age, his wife and because he helps me out! I’ll have to say something to him. He probably thinks I won’t want to upset his wife when she’s ill but that’ll be his problem.

Then I’ve had to be assertive with my manager at work who is taking advantage and it’s got to a point where I think it’s a risk so I’ve raised it higher. She took it very personally and got quite emotional about it even though I assured her it wasn’t as it would actually help her too. It almost felt a bit like emotional blackmail trying to make me feel guilty. Not very professional really. So I’m glad I did the right thing but it’s not sitting very comfortably.

It’s so hard to break free from a lifetime of conditioning. I guess I should appreciate the practice but I feel like a lot of people are more trouble than they’re worth. I can’t be doing with all their emotional stuff. I’m looking forward to a weekend alone (but not lonely!) Xx

[Serenity]

When I did the Pattern Changing course, PP, they gave us ‘homework’ which was to practice asserting our boundaries each week! We had to report back, too!

They knew how hard it would be for us to do this. It takes a lot of practice.

You will get people playing all kinds of games when you’re assertive. They will cry crocodile tears, go full throttle with the emotional blackmail…at least, certain people will.

I keep thinking of some advice my sister gave me: ‘You teach people how to treat you. People will abuse you because they think they can.’ To a point, out assertiveness can scare them off. They’ll know we aren’t ready bait.

This elderly neighbour certainly needs puttingbin his place. I wouldn’ t let him in your home again if he is alone – if at all. It’s your home, your safe haven, your castle. No one should cross the threshold who makes you feel unsafe. X

[Peaceful Pig]

Thanks Serenity, I wish I could do that course! Maybe I should set myself that challenge and report back to you! I’m so gutted that I would give anyone the impression that would be OK. After everything I’ve done to get all abusers out of my life. I guess I didn’t see it coming. I do quite a lot of challenging at work actually, it’s on a personal level I need to practice. I definitely want to scare abusers off but I also want to give my children a sense of community and not feeling isolated from everyone. It’s a tough balance but it has to be only the right people. Ah well, lesson learned, start again! Xx

[bunsandcakes]

Hi there, just reaching out to say I feel ya! Ive had a couple of dates lately with a man who is super nice but Ive basically insisted on evidence to believe anything he says!! I took ‘being cautious’ to a whole new level to the point where I was asking him to send a live photo of whatever he said he was doing so I could believe it!!! He has been really undstanding but I feel like a nut case! You just have to go through it I think and do whatever you feel in your gut is the right thing for your own sanity.

Id say something to the chap and if he gets weird, cut him off. If he is a real ffriend he wont be offended and will just get on with whatever you set as boundaires

[Peaceful Pig]

Thanks buns, you’re clearly way ahead of me. I think I’ll consider it progress if I get to the n*****e stage! I know it was a very minor thing but it was reaction that scared me, or my lack of one of should say. I just kind of froze and let it happen. It seems such an ingrained response. I really thought I was doing better than that. Maybe my policy of staying well away from almost all men is counter productive. Maybe I have to give myself opportunities for learning a new way to respond.

[lover of no contact]

I had a diy man I know in my house recently. He was elderly too. He touched my arm when he was talking to me. I hated it but like you I said nothing. It was only a touch on the arm but I felt ‘how dare he’. I felt like screaming after. I was mad with myself that I didn’t just move away quickly but I have this thing about appearing rude. Always the nice girl…agh.

This is my pattern. My daughter talks down to me and uses an abrupt tone. I’m not expecting it. I say nothing. Some work colleagues talk to me in a rude tone. I say nothing. Again I’m just not expecting it. All I want to say is ‘Are you ok?’, just to signal their behaviour and way of speaking is not right. But at the time I can’t remember to say those words. Then I’m left feeling hurt, angry and resentful.

Once I did think to say to someone who was being very rude to me (on purpose) ‘Are you ok, you sound stressed’, It felt great, I knew this person was being verbally abusive on purpose, and I walked away from them feeling empowered.

I think I’ll have to practice on a weekly basis asserting my boundaries too and report back on here…lol

[lover of no contact]

The thing is when I do assert my boundaries I may feel more empowered but it also feels uncomfortable. But I do think I have to accept the discomfort. I’m sure the discomfort will lessen.

[Peaceful Pig]

Hi LONC, sorry it’s taken me so long to respond, things are a bit hectic for me at the moment, but I really appreciated your reply. You described it perfectly and it made me feel better that it’s it just me. I keep hearing my ex’s words about me being ‘pathetic’ and ‘gullible’ and sometimes find myself agreeing with him. I find I need an hour or two in order to respond the way I want to, I need assertiveness to be an automatic response. Some articles I’ve read recommend preparing responses in advance so you can be prepared. I really like your suggestion of ‘are you OK?’ I’ll be trying that one. I did well with my manager who tried to make me feel guilty. I said “I’m very sorry about that, but I think it’s important to do X so that’s what I’m going to do”. When it comes to my personal life though I am hopeless. I need practice but I don’t think I’m safe near anyone to try! I need a mentor or something. I think you’re right about needing to sit with the discomfort until it feels more natural xx

[Peaceful Pig]

I meant not just me.

[danicali]

a general comment re boundaries…

there are all sorts of boundaries we can set in life… but wanted to comment on setting boundaries specifically with abusive men. you can set all the boundaries you want, but they often show total disregard for whatever boundary you set and they often “play” with those boundaries. i had, under advisement, blocked my ex from emailing me and so limited him to only contacting me via post and only when absolutely necessary. so what did he do? continue to email me knowing I wouldn’t get it.

so, set the boundary, they will mess with it, don’t let them. as long as you give them ONE way to contact you (and only if you have kids and have to contact them where necessary), there is nothing they can do – they cannot claim you won’t speak to them – you are merely limiting it… and for good reason.

courts may expect us to have contact with our abusive exes, least when you have kids together, but that does not mean that they should be able to get at you any way they want and it does not mean you cannot limit it as you feel keeps you safer x

[lover of no contact]

P.P.That’s me too… ‘I find I need an hour or two to respond the way I want to’.

Lately I’m trying to practice and have the sayings ready. As well as ‘Are you ok?’ and ‘Are you ok, you sound stressed?’ another one I heard and liked is ‘That’s a bit harsh!’ or ‘really!!’ in response to a put-down. Obviously if we’re dealing with an intimate partner abuser standing up for ourselves is the same as staying quiet…(it doesn’t matter what tack we take) we just need to get them out of our lives and go No Contact. But in terms of dealing with friends (who may think its ok to take their ‘issues’ out on us the odd time, or our children (having a bad day and dumping on us) then having those sayings ready may help.

But its crazy to think that when I’m on the spot and someone has been harsh in their tone or content, I just freeze and I can’t even remember to say the simple sentence ‘are you ok?’. But maybe by discussing it on here and posting about it, that may help. Your post has certainly helped me already.

[IMALRIGHT]

Hello!!
So my topic thankyou. I freeze just sit like a duck and swallow all the spikey comments. I have been clicked at, to shhhh when taking a phone call at work a work phone call. I’m valid too?!
So thanks for the discussion.

Here’s a question regarding children. When they say it’s boring now, I’ve moved countries new schools I’m working trying to get on top of house, keep them up to speed with their school work, friends, instrumentso, nature walks for sanity athe the weekend. But I’m on very low pay, receive no financial help from the ex.
And dealing with this madness when I can. Now my son said last week , it’s just so boring here, there’s nothing fun.
Which is so out of order! After all I’ve done I’m thinking in my head, he doesn’t realise and of course I’m not going to say ohh remember all the names he called us? But talk about never winning. I think he was angling for new tablet. Or he’s probably wanting something or its hud actually feelings it was devastating. How do you answer that?

[lover of no contact]

I find the peace, the quiet, the no drama, the no chaos while welcoming is just different and takes getting used to. I’ve been in cycle of abuses most of my life and life is so calm without them (although I’m in one at work).

Maybe your son just needs time to get used to the lack of dysfunction, drama and chaos. It can feel like a big void when the abuse is no longer there. Its a good thing but takes getting used to.

[Peaceful Pig]

Hmmm yes, my son says similar. Little comments about my being stressed or not being fun. He knows exactly how hard I have to work (and how little he does to help!). I find these comments very triggering, particularly when I go out of my way to give them quality time and play with them wherever can. I generally talk about consequences ie. if he doesn’t do as he’s told it will cause stress. I tell him he has a choice; either he helps more around the house so I have more time to play, or he keeps quiet and appreciates the work I’m doing. I probably go over the top sometimes. The trouble is it’s so hard to tell what’s deliberate, learned behaviour and what’s actually normal. For instance, my daughter has lost it a couple of times lately and I’ve got very upset and triggered but she’s turned out to be hormonal and hungry. As soon as she ate she was fine again and apologised.
Kids are very much ‘in the moment’, he might not mean life is boring in general, just at that moment. You could smile and say ‘yes, isn’t it peaceful!’ or suggest all the jobs he do if he’s bored!
My colleague was recently tutted at by a manager, she instantly said “please don’t tut at me, I’m working really hard here”. I was very impressed. I shall be taking notes!
I suppose it’s usual to pendulate between extremes when learning a new skill. It will take time for us to settle into ‘normal’ ourselves xx

[Escaped not free]

I think we sometimes think too much about what our kids say. We personalise and internalise every flippant comment because our total being is invested in making them “ok”, “happy”. We have no sane partner to moan about the way they talk to us and support us. Don’t know what age your son is. But I know mine can say things that I think mean I’m doing a terrible job then realise later it’s nothing near as bad as some of my friends kids, who are in the conventional, mum and dad and grandparents and dog set up. We are harsh on ourselves so we hear the bad things. Sometimes, I think I try a bit too hard to be everything to them and creat these days out and things when actually teenage boys sometimes need to sleep til lunch on a Saturday, and tgen eat their own weight in cereal so they can function for an afternoon of gaming. I’ve had to find a balance and it’s incredibly hard. But of bargaining, what would each of u like to do? To eat? Then try and coax them out for a bit of a walk as well if possible. Give him time, consistency and live, all the things you are doing. You are doing great but they are not gonna tell u that. Xxxx

[Serenity]

I know what you mean, I’m Alright. Our abusers made sure that, over time, they monopolised our every waking moment by infecting our life with fear and making us feel we had to somehow always try harder…

I think we were in survival mode, and our bodies almost got addicted to the adrenaline- which our bodies needed to continue every day.

When the abuser is gone, it’s not as simple as ‘Yee hee, I’m free!’ Well, sometimes it is. You get moments of sheer joy when you feel elated at being free. But the flip side of this is that where before you were putting all your energies into surviving and pleasing your abuser, suddenly there’s not that goal anymore, and you can be left feeling – though partly overjoyed- also empty and rudderless, because abuse was your life for so long.

As for our kids, they too became ‘addicted’ to the melodrama. They were onlookers and even became partakers, and through learned behaviour and through living in a home where the culture was the abuse cycle, they almost adopted the drama as a norm.

When my ex was finally out of the home, I think my kids and so all felt a massive void. We were relieved he’d gone, but we also felt a vacuum- because he’d almost brainwashed us all into thinking that he and placating his moods should be our reason for living!

One hing that helped us all in my house was the fact that my ex had denied my kids normal
Things for so long, so I bought them a few of the things he’d denied them. I bought them a lap top ( desperately needed for their schoolwork, if anything), and I bought my eldest the kind of clothes he liked and his friends were wearing: my ex was such a dictator, he resented the kids having anything nice ( when my eldest did get a games console, he jumped at the hence to throw it out of the window- literally ; he laughed and ridiculed my son if he tried to experiment with his looks).

My kids were so overjoyed that they had the things they’d been denied, they were like kids in a sweet shop. It gave them a lot of happiness, and my eldest son grew in confidence not least because he could e press itself more through his appearance.

Of course, you can give kids too much of a good thing. I am well aware that it’s easy for the non-abusive parent who feels guilty to over-compensate and give their kids too much, but this is bad as they can become spoilt and entitled.

So I’ve told the kids that I bought them a few thug things which were very overdue, but that I couldn’t keep up such extravagance! I said I would but hem the things they needed, but so try to get them to realise how important it is to be careful with money and also not expect things without ever giving back. My eldest is at the age where he can have a weekend and holiday job, and so have encouraged it. He’s had a few little jobs. This is a far cry from the boy who wouldn’t leave his bedroom when my ex lived at home. He can still have a tendency to be a bit lazy ( he’s a teenager!), but I try to remind him that life can’t all be about being cosy- you need to put effort in too! I worry sometimes that dive made them too cosy at home, lol! But my eldest is very good at keeping his room clean and neither boy trashes the house. I’ve just taught them a routine. My home isn’t show home perfect, but it’s generally tidy, because I’ve told them that it’s not my job to clear up after them: they are getting big. As I have a lodger, I need to keep the place clean, and this helps the boys to do it to, as they realise a lodger wouldn’t like to live in our mess.

As for your post where you say that the kids say they are bored: don’t be scared of that. Apparently, it’s good to allow kids to feel boted, as they will then be motivated to do something creative. As people pleasers, it’s easy to feel we need to step in and rid them of their boredom, but that won’t equip them for real life. In real life they have to find their own passions and direction. They can’t be held by the hand always, do I try not to jump in too fast if the kids complain they are bored. I tell them that it’s up to them to go and do something that they would love to do. I’m perfectly willing to be the taxi, but I want the creativity to come from them.

I think our kids need to learn to sit with themselves and in peace at times, and learn to be creative Regarding their own lives,and we need to stop being people pleasers and feeling responsible for their moments of boredom and uncertainty. I don’t want to be a helicopter oatrnt, whirring around them at every moment, not allowing them to come up with their own solutions. When my kids have complained of being x, y, z, I listen and empathise, but I try to ask them ‘so how can you solve that problem?’

I read an article once which said that abusers can be created not only by a harsh and brgjectfulmostent, but also a parent who does too much. That really impacted on me. I began to reflect more critically on my people-pleasing tendencies!

As we know, our abusers ( like all abusers) were the type to always be restless, unhappy and unsatisfied. They looked to us to fill the gaping hole that existed in them, wanting us to always be giving them attention, doingvthings gif them, sacrificing out isentities for them in the end. I am determined that my kids are going to be more independent and creative than that/ they thry eont hevlike their dad, who just sat back and expected everyone to treat him like royalty.

You are so, so brave to have moved abroad with your kids and I am sorry that other adults in your circle are not so friendly. I felt very self-conscious when I was first separated, and thought people were looking down on me. Maybe some people do have an outdated attitude, but the fact is I don’t care anymore. I am proud of what I have overcome and I refuse to carry around a burden of shame! I think as I accepted my new status more, other people became more relaxed around me too. I think we can give off vines of self-shame and we gave nothing to feel shame for. We were breve and courageous to escape. I bet some if those who you feel are judging you might even feel a bit of envy: In don’t think all marriages are as perfect as they appear to be.

I don’t know if your kids can get involved in any activity to boost their independence- and yourself too, to boost your confidence. Our abusers keep us isolated and want to keep us at home: I think it’s important as part of the recovery to try to integrate socially again, gradually if needed. You’re trying to overcome the abuser’s attempts to dominate your identity by doing this. An activity would help your kids to discover their individuality and take the pressure off you: it’s exhausting being looked at to be the answer to everyone’s problems. And as we know, as survivors we often feel short of energy and regularly need breaks in order to operate effectively!

[IMALRIGHT]

Thanks serenity and others.
Thankyou so much for reading and replying.

I thought I’d talked too much.

It’s nice to hear you get it.

The drama that is totally it. They learn that cycle and pattern, that’s what it is. And you are right the void then the kids think there still needs to be a big explosion.
You know it’s amazing though. Yesterday, my son swho is a little older than his sister actually walked around chatting and hugging her. He’s never done this ever.
It’s lovely seeing them talking together.
They don’t talk or ask. Then my daughter rill say I feel sorry for dad.

It’s really hard for them . He wanted us to go, it had to happen as his words were awful. Yet he says he loved us but worked hard to provide for us but couldn’t be with us easily, was always restless. Happiest playing hours on the computer or at the pub.
We did our own thing.
Until he’d come in and be awful to me.

I never realised how scared of him i have been fear all through my body.
I had a dream with him in, as if now meeting him when he knows I will not be with him, and in the surface he was calm polite to everyone else, but underneath he was seething. Awful.

Thanks for all of this, well done to all of you for which ever stage you are at keep going.
Grateful every day.

It is a delicious treat to have sweet days at home liking being at home pottering around . I never liked it that much. To be free of that dread takes a while.

Funny my son as soon as we got here, started creating his hair style and wanted wax and a comb.

[Nova]

PP…good topic to bring up…Being assertive and setting boundaries,..This I am struggling with. It happens ALL the time.

Tough one…I was told a decade ago, my being assertive was Arrogant! negative, rude etc of course by the abuser…

In his world my new behaviour is ingrained learned brainwashed systematic and not me at all.
It’s so unsettling and confusing, I feel I’m on shaky ground, totally unsure of myself…I question everything and everyone’s motives now, sometimes going to extremes. I just do not trust atm, I’ve been far too trusting now I’m the total opposite, I try to second guess (because I learned to do that with him)

I thought I knew him, now I feel ..do I really know anyone, like work colleagues, friends, etc…are they really the person I thought they were? Scary as if I analyse lots of relationships, they are pretty empty in reality.

I’ve gone for brick wall survival mode and it’s not going to get me anywhere…being a survivor seems like it’s all about extremes!
No balance or ‘normality’ ( not going there trying to argue what’s ‘normal!Im expressing my individual view obs) as this is abnormal to me, being a ‘survivor’ to have to think act deal with all of this.
Being assertive got me in trouble also lack of assertion equally got me in trouble!

Tricky & ongoing work needed!

Cx

[Author]

Posts