30th June 2020 at 4:51 am #108213
Been thinking for a bit here on and off about both of these in regards to abuse. And I think it’s something worth examining, researching and talking about.
One thing that I think needs to be understood is that con artists don’t really have to go to school for what they do, or even read about it, or be schooled by someone else as to – how it’s done. It’s quite natural to human beings. Just do a study about monkeys and you see just how natural it is.
When someone is predatory by nature and you can see that by their actions (not their words) then it’s safe to say they like to hunt, trap, con and capture their prey. If we are not like them then we are the prey.
So how do they do what they do?
How do they con us, brainwash us, what are the techniques that are used?
Would like to open up the floor here regarding how is it done? Because even if it’s just about someone conning someone out of their money, the basics are still the basics on how a con is done.
I am bringing all this up because I want you ladies to start playing offense instead of defense all the time. Your enemy out in the world knows you intimately well, so maybe it’s time you started studying your enemy… Time for us to be a Bene Gessurit.
Abuse happens because we don’t know what we are looking at initially, don’t know what happened, but there is a science to what they do. And the quicker we can see what’s going on, the better… I could write and write here about con artists but would like to see you guys tell me what you have found doing your own research. It’s a fascinating subject actually. Was just watching Hustle series on Amazon. Interesting but not that close to how they are in real life of course.. LOL!
30th June 2020 at 7:17 am #108218HazydayzParticipant
There’s people everywhere… who put it out , suck you in! get you feeling for them, then make their excuses! Just like vampires, they’ll suck you dry! If you let them, or you don’t see their fangs!
30th June 2020 at 7:26 am #108219HazydayzParticipant
So…You have to be Detective like! look for the clues?
30th June 2020 at 1:46 pm #108261
Ok, I’m going to give you things to chew on here and there and hopefully you will begin doing some research on your own here. Cold Reading is something that all predatory people do. Whether they are born with a knack for it or learn it by being taught, they all do the basic stuff here. These are things one guy talks about who is actually teaching people how to cold read another person. To get an angle on them so they can get information about them and know how to con them further…. If you remember back to when you first met your abuser, there would have been an intensive information gathering period. You mistake it for him just caring about you but it was most likely way more than that. So we spill our guts so to speak and they then use that information, sussing out our weaknesses, our strengths, our history, etc. in order to sketch out the disguise they need to invent in order to suck you into their web.
1. Use Shotgun Statements
This is the first part of cold reading and its called shottgunning or using shotgun statements as it replies on using a lot of general information so that something is bound to hit someone. Much like how a shot gun fires lots of pellets instead of a single projectile.
The point here is to be quite vague but general so you get a hit from the audience. You don’t want it to sound too obviously vague like “you are a man or a women” that’s far to blatant and wouldn’t fool most people. Instead say something like “you have recently lost an elderly relative” or “someone named john is very dear to you”. Theses are very vague and are likely to hit someone in the audience and to them it’s likely to feel very personal.
2. Use Barnum Statements
Use Barnum statements (named after PT Barnum) these are statements that seem personal but will apply to many people. Barnum statements rely on the phenomenon of people wanting to believe and looking for information that fits them if they fill in the blanks
Horoscopes use the exact same principles. They offer information that seems to be quite personal but could really relate to anyone. The readers eagerness in wanting them to be true helps them read between the lines and search in their history of recent events to how it could be relevant.
The difference between a horror scope and a normal cold reading is there is no feedback in a horror-scope where as in a normal cold reading you have interaction and can gauge where to go next following the subjects reaction.
Again These statements are used are very wide and can be applied to anyone and usually have a large area of open ended which you can then use to narrow down the field and appear to be more accurate.
An example of using Barnum statements is perfectly illustrated in the Orsen Welles video you can find later down the page. Something like “between the ages of 13 and 15 you went through a dramatic change” is a great example of a Barnum statement. It seems very personal but really it can be apply to everyone. I mean everyone between the ages of 13 and 15 will go through a dramatic change its called puberty.
A huge experiment that was conducted on students where they were given a sheet of paper. What was written on the piece of paper was suppose to describe the specific student and 90% of them when asked if what they received described them they agreed. Next they had to swap what they had with someone else and to their amazement they found they had the same description. Everyone recieved the same description but 90% of people thought it was tailor written for them. The description of course was entirely composed of Barnum Statements.
3. The Recap/The Reuse
Use information that the they have already confirmed to earlier on the reading and feed it back to them. Once you have already started speaking to the subject and made a few hits using Barnum statements listen to what they say. If they mention anything concrete or something you can infer from what they say don’t acknowledge it instead save it for later and use it and watch them be shocked about how personal you can be.
4. Pick the right subject
Whilst you don’t always have control over this in situations you do you want to use it to your advantage.
Picking the right subject is important as mentioned previously 90% of students in the Barnum statement example thought that the reading was for them specifically this means that 10% did not.
You want someone who is susceptible to suggestion and isn’t too much of a skeptic to begin with this will dramatically increase your chances of success.
5. Use negatively loaded statements
Use statements that are both win win. So talk about situations where opposites agree and human behavior is integral to. So say when your at a party you are extroverted and the life and soul of the party but when your at home on your own you are far more introverted.
6. Change your meaning
There are basically two strategies in cold reading to deal with not getting a hit and getting information wrong the first is to change your meaning the second is to play the blame game.
If you make a statement you either get a hit or flip it around and get a hit. Hopefully your subject will help you do this. If for example you say does john mean anything to you and they think and say no but joanne does just move across to this say “yes” and claim that as a hit.
7. Play the blame game
Even if you are wrong don’t admit it try and word it slightly different or work in a slightly different meaning. Or tell them they are wrong sit down and think about it then move onto the next subject.
30th June 2020 at 1:46 pm #108262Wants To HelpParticipant
They’ve already approached us with an agenda. They already know what they want. They want a woman for regular sex, to cook for them, to provide them with somewhere to live, to look after them, to provide a home for their other children to come to at weekends. So they ‘date’ us to look for signs of our weaknesses and vulnerabilities, to see how they can mould us to do what they want, they are sussing us out without us even knowing.
It’s really clever, they plant a seed, and then step back and watch it grow, allowing you to believe that it’s your idea, they will flatter you, encourage you, and then step back again, they’ll watch you put the plan in action, and then they’ll reap the rewards, take it all, and leave you with nothing, or the debt!
Like any salesman, they make you think you’re getting a good deal (him). If you hesitate, you may lose the bargain (him) as other people have shown an interest (triangulation). Decisions have to be made fast, otherwise you may miss your opportunity. We panic, so we act. But was the deal really that good? Did we do our research? Were other people really interested, or even exist?
30th June 2020 at 6:07 pm #108285
Precisely! We are their “mark” and they do what salesmen and con artists do. And it is all quite natural to people like this. They spend a great deal of time honing their skills, they do. They see what works, what doesn’t and they formulate a plan that can be changed here and there but basically it becomes their mode of operation. That’s why when you hear about a “profiler” helping out with tracking down a killer, you’ll see them sketch out what their M.O. is. Basically, for the most part, their signature way of going about things doesn’t usually change and why should it because it works? It’s almost boring sometimes. I sit and watch people who do this and you might assume they are really brilliant but alot of them aren’t really. Alot of them really don’t have high I.Q.’s. They just learned how to hunt and trap early in life. And after they have done it enough it’s easy. They know the prey they need to track and off they go looking for them.
It’s a pattern of thinking that’s going on here. Kind of like a program that’s running in their own heads and it’s just interesting to see this in real life con artistry or in cults or groups which can be families or corporations, religions, etc. where the brainwashing comes into play. There are huge interlinking threads here. Both things are present and active when dealing with an abuser. They con and they brainwash. It’s kinda like by studying both of these you are looking in at the same room but through a different window, getting a clearer perspective and view which illustrates and defines what’s really happening here.
1st July 2020 at 2:54 pm #108386
They do certain things that make up their M.O. and pretty much all love fraud con artists employ these tactics right out the gate. They are as follows:
They already know what they want or need out of you so their objective is clear in their mind from the get go. So they study a woman and see what their “in” is going to be. Sometimes it’s because a woman is very insecure, lonely, welcomes the lovebombing and attention so they can easily get them on an emotional level of reacting instead of on a reasoning responsive level. They don’t want you to use your brain but rather your heart.
They find out what is important to you and love for you to talk about yourself. You see it as they are sooo interested in you. Well, they are, but not for the reasons you think. They are gathering information so they can more easily erect a disguise and illusion for you. They do this very quickly because they are quite adept at doing it. We would think that’s silly maybe because we would not be able to do such a thing but bear in mind, you are not them. This is what they do and most likely have done all their lives.
They find out about all your hurts so they quickly become your savior, your protector and a like mind. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Being of “like mind” in whatever way is a big big hook. Because then you do that thing of assuming they are like you, therefore you are more like “one” than “two” people. He’s just so into you, understands you, he’s got hurts just like you, etc. This first lie that is believed is probably the hardest one to get over. They know this. We hate to look at the fact that this one in particular wasn’t true at all. They intuitively know we hate to be wrong about decisions made by the heart.
They rush you. They want a quick sell. You might hesitate or bring up things that are little red flags for you and they quickly give you a sharp little slap. You notice it but dismiss it because that slap is followed by what you think is intense love, whether it’s good sex, or he’s spending money on you (usually money he conned out of someone else) constantly wanting to be with you (which is always about control and has nothing to do with he can’t live without you) sooo, you just dismiss what your logical, reasoning and intuitive mind is telling you. It’s like the poison is followed by a really sugary drink so oh never mind, I was being silly, he’s sooo nice to me!
Too often these fraudsters are looking for someone who can support them. I see it all the time here on this forum. These personalities don’t always play well with others in the real world so very often they don’t have good employment histories. Of course there are always great stories from them about why, people are just doing him wrong, he’s smarter than everyone else, people are jealous of him, etc. Truth is, alot of times their work history has been all about conning people out of their money one way or the other. This is called financial abuse, btw, and it’s very real. I was conned by someone just like this.
They want to move in with you very quickly as well. Again, this is all about control and doing their magic on you, on a daily basis. That way you don’t have time to think if your radar is going off because they are monitoring you 24/7 and they have a keen ability to sense you are having these moments and cover their bases and distract you.
They convince you that you have strong need of them. If you already have children, then your children need a father figure and usually are slyly insinuating that you’re not quite doing it all right as far as being a single parent is concerned. Or, they are the tough guy who will protect you. The big gorilla who will defend you against all incoming harm. I gotta love this one. When in all reality they Are the harm here…Whatever the need they find in you – they zero in on and temporarily become that. If you don’t have a need they will create one. This is pretty much called “the hook”. They find out what you need and they become whatever that need is.
They don’t always go for women who are needy or insecure. They will often go right for the ones who are independent and strong, successful in life. I think this is of particular enjoyment to them, to break a woman like this, piece by piece. These people are the scariest of all because they actually derive pleasure from destroying you over time. It makes their little egos feel good because all of these men are bullies and bullies are cowards and they need to tear someone else down in order make themselves feel all powerful.
They will isolate you from your friends and family but all under the guise of – I just need you soo much!! They will start picking them all apart, finding little flaws, creating wedges in your relationships when there were no wedges before. Monitoring you all the time when you do have interaction and inserting “their take” on what happened. When the friction starts then they throw gasoline on it.
They create fear in you – that you might lose them if you pull away. Either there have always been all these women after them, he could have anyone he wants but he wants “you”. He might start pouting if things don’t go his way and let you feel the vacuum of his silence in order to reel you back in and when that happens, he might possibly lovebomb you again after he’s just punished you.
They quickly let you know that they are the expert in many things. They give you that intense stare without blinking when they are being firm about what they know making sure you are paying attention and believe them. If an “in” with you is you respect authority figures and don’t usually argue with them then they zero right in on this one and become – your authority figure.
So that’s some things… Feel free to add your own here. But con artists do the same thing in any kind of fraud or con. It’s the very same basic strategies. It’s all about the quick sell. Once they have the hook in, they pull it tight. It’s never easy getting away from these people because we go right back to the original lie and find it hard to rip it out and make it not true. Why? Because we believed them. We did it on an emotional level and it’s very hard for us to disbelieve the illusion. They count on that one, btw. I look it like, so what? I made a mistake. I will make a bigger mistake by staying tied to this lie and living in it, right?
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