Viewing 20 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #74226
      KOTB
      Participant

      I have finally started my counselling after getting out of my second abusive relationship last year. I am struggling to move on, re gain my self identity and get to some form of semi normal existence. My therapist has picked up on my co dependent traits and we have even discussed a co dependents anonymous group based on the 12 steps principles. Has anyone any experience of this?
      My ex had mental health and drug problems and at the time I accept that I did try to “help”
      him but this was more a strategy to keep myself safe in the short term and leave the relationship safely in the long term. Does accepting the co dependent label somehow give abusers an excuse? It does seem, to some extent like victim blaming. It seems to go against a lot of what I learnt on my DV course re: the cycle of abuse.
      I’d be grateful to hear your opinions.

    • #74227

      Hello there,
      For myself I am not sure about this co-dependency ‘label’.
      Mainly because it is a huge multi million dollar industry – publications etc.
      but also because before I left my ex ‘encouraged’ me to go to such a group – and much later I found it really, really wasn’t appropriate, for the reasons you are identifying now.

      But then he would have loved it if he had had concrete ‘proof’ that I was off my trolley etc. Whilst no one ever questioning his mental health of course, although the courts probably would do now.

      And so I left the group at the time of my own accord, and never went back. My gut instinct was it wasn’t and isn’t appropriate for d.a.

      But then of course others may feel differently, which I completely understand and it is difficult to say all this in a short post

      all best
      ftc
      x

    • #74233
      KOTB
      Participant

      Thanks ftc. I accept I do try and avoid confrontation but I didn’t actively go looking for a partner to “help.” I simply didn’t see the red flags early enough because I was in a bad place due to my first abusive relationship. I suppose I just need to learn to be more assertive and not prioritise others needs before my own. I just can’t seem to find a way to get my life back on track. But I won’t be pressured into accepting this co dependent label, if it is unhelpful long term.
      KOTB

    • #74238
      Iwantmeback
      Participant

      I don’t accept the codependents label either. What we are a just nice people, who automatically nurture others, that’s why so many of us become healers, nurses, therapists even. These abusive men attach on to us like emotional vampires, they want our nice traits because they don’t have their own. They mimic being nice, kind, thoughtful, but once that mask slips, we see what they are underneath it all.

      I too need to be more assertive,not let my boundaries and morals get compromised. I don’t like hurting peoples feelings but look where that’s gotten me. He doesn’t like that he’s no longer the centre of my world, but I can’t put his needs above my own any longer. I was becoming a shell of who I was.

      Go by your gut, I also think your therapist has called this so wrongly. It is like victim blaming, which many people do, even if their intentions are in the right place. 😒

      IWMB 💕💕

    • #74251
      maddog
      Participant

      I think co-dependency has too many negative connotations as well. I have not noticed that it is a word used in Women’s Aid, or in trauma counselling. I think that much of what WA does and counselling helps with is to create independent women. All work towards that!

      I went to some Alanon meetings, but then realised it wasn’t right for me.

      Something I have learned is to have clear boundaries. I have learned along with this that sometimes I may be wrong. So many people have crossed my boundaries, people supposed to help have caused me harm, and I am furious.

      The bad stuff that happened to us, the reasons usually that we have suffered addictions/mental health problems, is most of the time out of our control. I have been reading a lot and listening about early childhood trauma. This can trigger all sorts of problems in adulthood. It is a big thing to understand that it was not of our making, and learn to love ourselves a bit more.

      There is lots of stuff about trauma, and specific therapies that might be more helpful than others. When you have been in an abusive relationship, you will have experienced trauma. Co-dependency is not a helpful label.

      I have been advised to look into Trauma Processing therapy in due course. I have not been advised to go to a CODA meeting!!

    • #74287
      HopeLifeJoy
      Participant

      Nope, no matter the ‘label’ you get abuse is the abusers problem entirely. Always has been & always will be.

      I am going to see a therapist for trauma soon and she better stays focused on dealing with trauma and help me recover and not get distracted by anything else. I am not interested as to WHY was I abused -like you- in two abusive relationships. I am interested in HOW the hell do I recover, find myself back again and can move on.
      The same way I would need treatment for a broken leg, no-one asks you if you are co dependent, have mental health issue or anything else when you have a broken leg, they simply help you recover and heal that broken leg.
      Or with depression. No-one asked my WHY I got depressed. The therapists explained to me what it is and HOW to recover from it, which I followed to the dot and got out of it.
      I believe the same is true with trauma. That’s my humble opinion 🙂

    • #74288
      EbonyRaven
      Participant

      This is what the Wikki definition is: Among the core characteristics of codependency is an excessive reliance on other people for approval and a sense of identity. In its broadest definition, a codependent is someone who cannot function on their own and whose thinking and behavior is instead organized around another person, process, or substance. In this context, people who are addicted to a substance (i.e. drugs) or a process (i.e. gambling or sex) can also be considered codependent. In its most narrow definition, it requires one person to be physically or psychologically addicted, such as to heroin, and the second person to be psychologically dependent on that behavior.

      Before I met him I knew who I was, and I didn’t rely on approval from others for validation. That wasn’t me. His abuse has caused me to show some behaviours similar to that now, just through the sheer grinding insidious ways he traumatised me. I have never been dependent upon him behaving in the way he did, either his abusiveness, or his alcoholism. In fact he wasn’t like that at first, during the ‘honeymoon’ stage, so I had no reason to think I needed to ‘fix’ him, or to rely on his behaviours to give me purpose in my life.

      So, in conclusion I’d say that the word codependency does not fit our situations at all, and therapists are jumping onto the wrong, fashionable bandwagon.

      I suffered, as did you, life changing trauma inflicted by someone who was not the person I originally met.

    • #74290
      KOTB
      Participant

      Thanks for your thoughts. I will try and re focus my therapy sessions on the actual trauma (some of which I can’t fully remember cos my brain isn’t allowing me to at the minute.) Everything is so overwhelming, I feel as if I made so much progress with my DA awareness program, reading and posting on here. I’ve learned so much about trauma bonding, cognitive dissonance and the FOG but I still can’t move on and feel in limbo. I’ve accessed some CBT stuff about some of my ritualistic behaviours around keeping myself safe but I’m not ready to stop them yet. I’ve just lost a sense of who I am which is why it is so important not to be dismissed as co dependent.
      KOTB

    • #74334
      LozzyX
      Participant

      Hi KOTB

      I am also still married to, but separated from, a man with drug addiction and possibly mental health issues (although I now think the MH could be a red herring and it’s mainly drugs and just an abusive personality that he suffers from )

      I certainly didn’t set to seek out someone I could rescue and mother … I felt pretty much forced into this role. We were together a while before any serious issues began… Then after several years married, the last year my world came crashing down. I realised his drug habit was quickly turning into addiction… Borrowing increasing amounts of money from me, and his family, then getting loans , and also erratic behaviour.

      I wasn’t lending him money to help him… It was to keep him off my back… The nights he would go on and on and on at me til I caved in.. and he then started begging me to ask my elderly parents for.money when I had no money left… I firmly.said no so he asked them himself and they believed his lies and lent him further money

      I stuck.with him.as I felt obligated and also very scared about losing my home , plus at first yes I still loved him and there were still happy.moments – of course those times were purely to reign me back in and stay helping him…

      ..so I don’t think we are necessarily co dependent … He wasn’t in need of any help when I first met him… It creeps up on you the amount you do for them… I certainly wouldn’t have chose to be in a relationship like this ever !!! But it happened to me
      .. I still can’t quite believe it to be honest
      … It all got so so crazy and scary towards the end … Seriously almost like Dirty John …

      I am due to start counselling next week so I will let you know if they come up with the co dependent theory on me.

    • #74346
      SunshineRainflower
      Participant

      The codependent label makes me uncomfortable too. I’ve not been to CODA but I have been to another 12 step group and to be honest it made me super depressed and it was a relief to leave. This was for several reasons but especially because they imply that if you leave you will not recover. I also found it really victim blamey and didn’t like the Christian vibe of us all having to ‘atone for our sins’ sort of thing. There is an author called Charlotte Kasl who has written good books about why the 12 step model can be harmful to women and minorities you might find helpful. It mainly boils down to the fact that the original 12 step group, AA, was set up by and for white, upper middle class wealthy American Protestant Christian male alcoholics. The tough love approach seemed to work for them mainly because they genuinely did have big egos but for women and minorities who have experienced trauma the opposite is often the case, they need their egos boosting not breaking down.

      I read somewhere that codependency is sometimes called ‘self love deficit disorder’ which I find a more helpful label because it acknowledges the trauma and pain rather than sounding like we welcomed abusers into our lives as if it was our fault etc.

      I find a couple of youtubers helpful who do videos on recovering from abuse who refer to codependency but I don’t think I’d ever go to a 12 step group again.

    • #74362
      KOTB
      Participant

      Thanks. That is really helpful. We have so much insight and knowledge on this forum don’t we? It will be interesting if your therapist mentions codependency LozzyX. The dynamics of abusive relationships are so complex. Getting the right type of therapy is so important.
      KOTB

    • #74425
      Janedoeissad
      Participant

      Hi KOTB

      I would describe myself as co-dependent. I would also say my self worth was through the floor and had been for a very long time (long before I met my Ex). I am currently reading a very helpful book called Conquering Shame and Co-dependency by Derlene Lancer. It has been really helpful.

      The way I see it is, codependency does NOT mean you sought out an abusive person. For me my codependency and low self worth meant that I subconsciously sought out people who totally relied on me. I equated love with being needed and not getting my needs met ever. That is why I stayed with my abusive partner for so long. In my mind He needed me and couldn’t cope without me, he was mean because I wasn’t getting things right. I now see the truth of the situation.

      Now I see that my low self worth meant I always sought out people who I knew I would never stay with. I loved setting myself up to fail. That way I could prove to myself how worthless I was. Getting with my Ex and him being so cruel only fuelled a fire I had already lit myself.

      Delving into all this stuff hurts like hell and is very painful. I can not afford counselling or a therapist so I am doing it all on my own. However, I am determined to go through it all and come out the other side as a person who loves herself and will never be afraid to have and keep boundaries.

      So no, you are never ever responsible for getting with an abusive person. However, I do think its worth taking a hard look at your emotions and core beliefs and seeing a) what damage your Ex has done which needs healing, b) what can you do to never let that happen to you again and c) learn to love you for who you are regardless of whether you are with someone or not.

    • #74432
      KOTB
      Participant

      Thanks for your honesty Janedoeissad.
      My situation centred around the fact that the more I helped him, the more he needed me (or I perceived that he needed me.) Till it got to the extent that he could barely do anything for himself. But in a way this was a form of control so I couldn’t leave. Similarly his mental health suffered so he became more reliant on me which perpetuated the cycle. Interestly, I only managed to leave the relationship when I became so emotionally and mentally broken that I no longer served a purpose to him.

      My counselling is on the NHS because I cannot afford to pay privately. There really is a lack of funding for the full range of therapists needed. Which ironically I experienced trying to get the right mental health support for my ex.
      KOTB

    • #74433
      maddog
      Participant

      Your post strikes a chord janedoeissad. However I think you are being particularly harsh on yourself. Low self-esteem starts at the beginning. It usually starts when something goes wrong and we feel utterly vulnerable and unprotected. I have only begun to come to terms with what happened to me. From a very very young age things went very badly wrong for me which were just awful and from there on in I didn’t think my parents could be bothered with me. So I went on behaving as though nobody wanted me and then I was treated as though nobody wanted me. It is now, 5 decades later that I am beginning to understand that the trigger was some dreadful event when I was a baby. All my core beliefs since then were wrong.

      Abusive people are like heat-seeking missiles for vulnerable people. I think we don’t light the fire of self-destruction ourselves. I think it is more likely to be triggered by trauma.

      I’ve found lots of helpful stuff on youtube. It is hard work and can be so painful. It’s never going to be nice getting splinters out! But at least we can heal without those thorns in our flesh.

    • #74434
      Janedoeissad
      Participant

      Thanks KOTB and Maddog

      KOTB giving your all until there is nothing left sounds very familiar. I always thought giving absolutely everything is what everyone did. Giving to the point of emotional exhaustion seemed normal to me before. Not any more. I am trying hard to put myself first and my new saying is “kindness is given, not expected”. I will do nice things but not at the detriment of my own mental health/financial situation.

      Maddog, I am incredibly hard on myself. Again another way of keeping my own self worth down. I am working on it and am changing my internal dialog so that it is far nicer and supportive.

      I have come to realise that from a young age I was taught that others come first, not me. I had a controlling Father who my Mother walked on eggshells around. So she made us believe his needs should be met before our own. I was the only one who could talk to him and not get him mad. So I was used as a negotiator for the family. Again, my needs come last. When my Mother wasn’t hammering home that message my Father was with his hyper critical view of us and kicking off to get his own way.

      So now, 3 decades on, I am learning to put me first. To love me and to see I am worth a whole lot more than I realised. Saying no to people is hard, not doing what people expect of me (in a bad way) is hard but it is so rewarding. I am beginning to see a glimmer of hope.

      Sorry, kind of ranted on there a little! lol!

    • #74437
      Iwantmeback
      Participant

      Hi @Janedoe, you sound as if you are truly getting a handle on things now.💖 you might not think so but I’m seeing a stronger you now.😘 It’s rotten how we’re brought up and it makes us primed for abuse, again patriarchal society in which men’s needs and desires come before everyone else’s, but things are changing. Your mum learned from her parents as did your dad, and so on and so on. We know what we don’t want to happen in our families and once we know about DA, we can go on to break the cycle.
      It’s not being selfish or thinking ‘of one’s own self’. In order to be able to love and help others, we have to love and care about ourselves too. Something that was frowned on in our families, as was giving praise or being proud of our achievements. Pride is a sin and all that. 🤨
      Take care IWMB

    • #74478
      Janedoeissad
      Participant

      Thank you so much for your kind words IWMB. Some days I see me getting stronger, others I still feel like I am falling apart but I have found that the more uncomfortable I feel, the more I grow. You do not learn or grow in your comfort zone.

      Another topic which has been brought to my attention in the last few days is ACES (Adverse Childhood Experiences). Its an initiative which has been brought in in some Countries in the UK (Scotland and Wales at the moment I think). Its basis is that if you experience certain traumas as a child, you are more inclined to experience similar things as an adult. Its hard to explain but I found it fascinating and when I read a list of the childhood traumas, I had a experienced a lot of them as a child.

      I Just feel like knowledge is power, and that the more I know and understand about my childhood experiences. The more I can move forward and learn from them.

      The one thing I have decided is that I will be childfree. I have always wanted to be childfree but have never told anyone why, I am not even sure I understood why myself until recently. Purely and simply it is because the thought of any child going through anything remotely similar to my experiences, brings me way to much anxiety. So thankfully there will be no future generation who has to learn from me.

    • #74479
      maddog
      Participant

      I’ve recently come across the ACE topic too. Apparently it’s quite a new idea with research going into it. I’ve been advised by my counsellor to look into EMDR therapy for the future. Maybe when the dust has settled a bit as my sessions are now finished. Trauma counselling is very specific. I have come on in many ways though still have hoops to leap through. It’s a long haul, and sometimes so difficult. Not easy to do alone, really unless you have the tools to self-comfort and really believe in them. I’m not sure I have them properly in place yet but am working on it. At least for now I am drinking far less than in the past. Project in progress. It’s still a tough nut to crack!

    • #74480
      fizzylem
      Participant

      I think if we remove the label, and use a langage we can understand and relate to, what helps is to look at the parts of me that contributed towards the continuation of the relationship – and there were many!

      For example, I wanted to believe I am loved, he loves me, we’re in love – more than anything, so much so that I held onto this a long time after I started to see and feel this isn’t love I’m receiving.

      I loved, he did not, I projected how I felt onto him, and by doing so assumed he felt the same as me when he did not, I didnt check this out, I could have, should have – did eventually when I stopped listening to his I love yous and started paying more attention to his actions.

      He wanted his needs meeting and that was all, he only loved what I could do for him; I tried to avoid facing this, its a hard pill to swallow, but I got to a point where I decided to test out my theory and purposely withdrew doing anything for him, this was when things really got dreadful, but I came to realise that it was ‘only my giving that was keeping us together’, and still I stayed for several months.

      Had I been honest with myself, listened to and responded to my needs and feelings, acknowledged this is not ok for me, I would have got out a lot sooner, instead I skipped by anything that was not loving in favour of living with the lie. This won’t happen again.

      I think it is helpful to practice conveying what is ok and not ok for me in a kind, respectful way with everyone I know, to always stand in my truth now.

    • #74490
      LozzyX
      Participant

      Good point Fizzylem ,stop doing everything for them and realise just how much they love us then!

      As soon as started to take a stand I was accused of being cold, unreasonable , uncaring and I’ve changed !!

      Went to my pre assessment for the counselling and I don’t think it will work out for me but then again it might do … I have my own Cynical.opinions that may be clouding my judgement on it all … But she did say that as part of the sessions we could work on looking at why i didn’t listen to my gut in the early days before I married him

      I will persevere for now as it’s very affordable, and I’ve waited 6 months!!!

    • #74493
      Iwantmeback
      Participant

      I often wonder why I didn’t listen to my gut before marrying him. I know I didn’t want to face his rage, but surely that’s not the only reason. There must be deeper reasons, possibly down to how in childhood we’re taught to be good girls, it’s not nice to hurt others feeling, how we are told to put others needs before our own etc. Surely my fear of his rage wasnt such that I’d marry him, that’s some hold over another human being.😔

Viewing 20 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 2015 Women's Aid Federation of England – Women’s Aid is a company limited by guarantee registered in England No: 3171880.

Women’s Aid is a registered charity in England No. 1054154

Terms & conditionsPrivacy & cookie policySite mapProtect yourself onlineMedia │ JobsAccessibility Guide

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

Create Account

Skip to content