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    • #66952
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      I didn’t see the signs several times. Ended up in love deeply and committed and living together 1. With a man who left me over the phone in the middle of a pregnancy he sought 2. With a man who left me constantly from the 3rd month onwards to come back on his knees and ended up hitting me. 3. With a man who told me I was the love of his life and was desperate to get married and one day dismantled our home and disappeared. In all these cases there were obvious signs earlier on that I interpreted totally the other way round. I trusted their words more than my feelings.
      I believe now i do that because i grew up in a very dysfunctional home. Dad had multiple affairs and hit me and my brother constantly very very hard. He shouted or we couldn’t talk or he wasn’t there. Mom always angry and in despair. Always telling me I was not wanted and nobody could bear with me. They used to put me in a separate room when my siblings or cousins were playing. Mom didn’t touch me or wash me. She put me in care of a lovely nanny the day after I was born and when she died, and I was (Detail removed by Moderator), she didn’t even tell me. It was just most awful All the times. I think I just expect to be unlovable and left. I always craved for the love of a man and always found only attached to men who ended up betraying me deeply.
      Now it has been (Detail removed by Moderator) since my ex moved out. When he shut himself from me and my son and took his child away from my life I felt in so much despair that I tried to kill myself.
      I don’t want my past to define me.
      I want to be able to love and be loved to give and receive. But I am very very scared and shut down. I am scared of demands that men have of me. I have been dating but feeling very little sexual attraction and I am constantly trying to see the signs that may alert me of what these men are like. That comes across as me stringing them along, wanting just a platonic relationship…
      I have now met a guy. He is very intelligent and the second time we met he said he had a feeling I was pushing him away. I explaimed that I don’t want to rush and want to get to know someome well before getting intimate.
      But I think he realises that there is something else. I am not light hearted. I don’t want to push away someone but I don’t really know any more How to relate with men.
      Has anyone gone through this? Do I just have to be by myself for as long as it takes? I am scared of not dating…a bit like if you have a bad car accident and you don’t drive straight away you may never want to drive again. I don’t want to become shut to love. But I don’t know how to be any more…any thoughts advice ideas??
      Thanks xx

    • #66968
      Tiffany
      Participant

      I would highly recommend not dating for a bit. Dating is exhausting. It batters your self esteem until you believe that you are only good enough for the desparate dregs (and how many of them there seem to be when you are scared you will never find love again). It may just be the way you described it, but I am slightly weirded out by your intelligent man who thinks you are pushing him away on a second date. Second dates aren’t really pushing away territory – they are fairly straightforward “Do you want to meet up again” territory. Possibly “I like you, but I am getting mixed signals, and if you don’t fancy me then I will stop pursuing you” but even that seems a little intense for the second date.

      I would try to trust your instincts. A nice guy won’t mind if you want to get to know them slowly. But I would also probably stop dating for a bit and try to work on liking yourself more. It’s hard to believe that people will want to date you when you wouldn’t want to date yourself, if that makes sense. Once you are happier and like yourself more it is much easier to date. And make the most of being single! It can be really fun – you don’t have to take a partners likes and dislikes into account when you are planning your week. Instead of going on dates why don’t you use that time to take up a hobby you would enjoy. Revel in the fact that you can turn the sofas into a den with the kids and eat turkey dinosaurs and ketchup for dinner without your partner coming home and complaining that there is no proper dinner and he wants the sofa back in its proper place so he can watch the telly. You can watch whatever you like on the telly! And you will naturally gain confidence, by doing what you like, and then you can think about dating again.

      Counselling might also be helpful – I have found it a mixed bag, some counsellors I have seen have been amazing, some awful. It will just depend on what is available in your area and your budget.

    • #66969
      Tiffany
      Participant

      Btw, women’s aid’s advice is to allow two years after an abusive relationship because it takes time to recover from these experiences and it is easier when you are still single and can focus on yourself. I usually go for a year at least between serious relationships and dating again, although I can see that longer would be useful post abuse. If this sounds impossibly long maybe start with something shorter say 6 months and review how you feel after that?

    • #66987
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Thanks Tiffany that’s really helpful. Particularly the observation about the man’s requests on second meeting and the two year waiting time!
      Thanks a lot x

    • #66990
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi puzzledatlife,

      I can empathise with this my mum wasn’t intentionally abusive towards me because she was really unwell.I was blamed for my birth being the cause of her illness, I was also degraded by her and to a degree neglected. I spent my first days in a mental health hospital. My grandmother had to step in and she really nurtured me. I’m so grateful for that and her love. But I am now very insecure the thought if being alone terrifies me. I was however on my own for two years after separation. I decided to test the water to see what was out there so to speak. I dated a few guys who I think would have become abusive an I met some really nice ones. Unfortunately I just didn’t fancy them. I have now met someone and I have strict boundaries with him. I think you’ll know when your ready just take your time. I wish I could say insecurity heals in time but mines hasn’t. It was my downfall because it’s what drove me to the arms of my abuser. Someone who took advantage of that insecurity and what he did was awful in doing that to me at my weakest. Get strong, be knowledgeable, spot the red flags and leave by the quickest exit! Take your time there are really good descent people out there. More than not I believe ☺sending you hugs and solidarity xx

    • #66991
      maddog
      Participant

      Your experience and your feelings sound so familiar to me Puzzledatlife. It is so awful going through life with the core belief of being unwantable, unwanted, unlovable.

      I cannot remember why I was beaten. Clearly it didn’t work. I had no idea what I had done so wrong. When I was very young I asked my dad why I had been born.

      I stayed with my ex husband for decades by shoving his abusive behaviour under the carpet. I believed that child abuse was sexual abuse and I had no experience of that, so I had no way of articulating what was happening to me. I was in no uncertain terms the black sheep of the family.

      Take all the time you need. Remember, you have been a witness to terrible things. You are not responsible for them. I think when we grow up with abuse, we tend to bear the weight of it, blame ourselves, try to make the other person better. I am still bad at being kind to myself. Occasionally, just every now and again I get a glimmer of what it must be like.

    • #66993
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I suppose if we focus on who have and do love us we know deep down we are worthy. I’m sorry for butting in here reading this had brought out deep emotions that I don’t usually face or dealve into just so painful isn’t it ? 😑

    • #66995
      Iwantmeback
      Participant

      Hi all, i think anyone who starts a new relationship is very brave.
      I have always said I’d never have another man live with me if this relationship ended. Why do we have to live life by their rules. I have been called selfish and self centred when ive wanted to do something for me. I only think of ones-self, i never think of him, i do nothing for him. Yet im the one who puts in prescriptions, picks them up. I’m the one who phones people he can’t, i do all that kind of stuff because he doesnt like to, doesn’t have time to.
      Yet if I’m not forcerful enough with people, I’m stupid, you tell them, they don’t tell you.
      To be told after a second date that he feels your pushing him away, really. You’re still finding out about each other, what’s he expecting hearts and flowers and straight into bed.
      Be kind to yourself sweetheart, there’s no rush to find that someone. Love and like yourself first.💞 It’s hard, cos we’re so used to putting them first we’ve forgotten about us.
      Keep posting.x
      IWMB 💕💕

    • #67002
      SunshineRainflower
      Participant

      Hi Puzzledatlife. You sound like a very gentle, kind hearted soul and I felt very sad reading how cruelly you have been treated. Please know that you are worthy and loveable, you were just very unlucky to grow up in a dysfunctional family. I can relate to your childhood, my mum was very cold and critical and my dad was kind of creepy and also emotionally distant. I was bullied a lot by my arrogant and unkind brother. So like you have ended up with several abusers because abuse seemed normal to me, I didn’t even know it was classed as abuse. It was only because the last boyfriend was so bad that it suddenly all clicked for me and I realised the connection and the pattern.

      I agree with Tiffany about waiting to date. Dating can be stressful and upsetting and there are a lot of red flags to look out for and if we’re not careful we end up with another bad egg who manipulates and love bombs us. I also think it’s a bit strange that this new man is saying you’re pushing him away on the 2nd date, that sounds possibly like it could be him acting like a victim/looking for pity and pushing for intense involvement which are red flags. Do you want to share a bit more about him so we can help you navigate it?

      There is a really good book called The Artists Way. You can probably get it in the local library. I recommend it to everyone as it changed my life. It helps you understand yourself better, bring more joy into you life and figure out who you are and what you enjoy whether it’s ice skating, hockey, painting, piano, sewing, etc etc. It helped me change my career and go back to college and also take up some lovely new hobbies and overall get on the right path. Maybe you could spend 6 months to a year working on getting to know yourself and doing what you enjoy then trying dating again after? It’s been a year and a half for me, nearly 2 years now and I still don’t feel ready to date. I am a lot more healed but still have pain and sadness to work through. I still feel upset at what my ex did and how he tricked me so cruelly and deliberately. I had dated so much before him, I was exhausted, and the thought of dating again makes me feel miserable, unless I happened to meet someone at a hobby who I clicked with. At the moment I don’t feel joyful about life as I work through my traumas, I feel sad and worried a lot of the time which I know is a sign that I’m not yet ready to date because I’d still be a target for abusers and their love bombing. Once you feel happier, calmer and more stable and dating sounds like fun you know it’s the right time to try it again.

      You honestly deserve so much more than those idiots gave you.

    • #67008
      Tiffany
      Participant

      It also occurred to me that someone (was it you sunshinerainflower?) wrote about practicing dating themselves, which I thought sounded like a lovely idea. It could as simple as laying the table nicely and lighting some candles for a nice dinner. Or a long walk in the countryside. Or going out for afternoon tea. Or visiting a museum. Whatever appeals to you really in the dating field. The point is to do the things you would like in a relationship, so that when you get into one you want to be treated as well as you treat yourself. I think it is easy to wait for a man to give you flowers and make you feel good about yourself, but it is actually much more effective if you buy your own flowers (I once told a lady at the supermarket checkout that the flowers were for myself because I was an independent modern woman) and to feel good about yourself because you are f*****g awesome, thank you very much. It makes you much less likely to put up with b******t from the men who do show up in your life.

      • #67012
        puzzledatlife
        Participant

        So…He is a colleague but I met him through a dating app. He, like me, is a foreigner. He moved here not a long ago but long enough to know the city and nice places. He is a senior at the top of his career. Divorced with one child who lives in his country with mom. He showed me photos of the kid and she is lovely. He seems very intelligent. He makes a lot of interesting and pertinent observations about things. He has courtesy opens the doors pays for the drinks and proposes things to do. All of these seem to me nice qualities.
        The first thing that alerted me was that after we met the first time he asked if we could chat on the phone. That night I was very tired and had had a long day. I said I am home and free to talk but i am very tired so if we chat tonight you may have to bear with me being a little tired. Something like that. I’d have expected him to say Ok don’t worry shall I give you a ring in the morning? Or Ok is it Best for me to call another time? He just rung. But then it was a nice and short chat so I was ok.
        Then we met for a coffee and then we walked at an exhibition we both wanted to see. Every now and again he would put a hand on my arm or shoulder. I didn’t mind once or twice but he was going this quite often. When we walked out he said he needed to tell me something. He said, precisely, I like you but I am getting mixed messages from you.
        We spoke a bit about how he felt and I said I was sorry I had made him feel uncomfortable and didn’t mean to push him away. However I am slow and want to take my time to get to know someome well. I also said i don’t want to string people along but I need to get to know a person well now. He said he completely understood and he also was looking for someone to be his best friend first.
        The following day we met for a coffee and he said he had been thinking about his reaction at what he perceived as me pulling away at his affectionate touch. He said that he dated this woman and after 6 weeks it became evident that she had very strong religious inhibitions and he had started to care for her very much and felt she hadn’t been totally honest.
        I laughed very much. I could just imagine the scene…I said I don’t see myself in a platonic relationship. A relationship has to have sex and good sex otherwise is no relationship. But I want to know the person first. And I would like that to happen organically and without one pushing or being on a waiting mode. If that’s the case id rather keep the friendship.
        We spoke a bit about this and he said he was grateful for our chat and that perhaps he needs to consider slowing himself down.
        I said that we said what was in our mind and we could drop this topic and just go out and get to know each other. He said he agreed.
        One thing that bothered me slightly is that I said We have only met once. And he said for me is not the amount of time that matters but the quality of the time, the connection the chats we have when we talk. I know he was just saying what it was for him but it felt he wasn’t acknowledging fully that for me 1 time is 1 time and I don’t make anything big of 1 meeting.
        Thanks for your help X

    • #67013
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      To you all, thank you so much! This is incredibly helpful. Thanks.
      I will read the book.
      I have started hobbies but is hard with two jobs and a kid and a dog and a house all on myself.
      Moreover I have a medical condition and there are things I can no longer do. But I will need to find something else…
      First I’ll read the book
      A huge thanks and sorry I have made some of you sad. Wish I could meet you all X*x

    • #67014
      SunshineRainflower
      Participant

      Hmm he sounds a bit impatient and intense which to me are red flags. It will be interesting to hear what the others think. For me the abusive men always started off intense, wanting to spend all their time with me, saying things like ‘we both know this is something special’ and ‘I’ve never felt like this about anyone before.’ They also took a bit of offence if I didn’t want to see them as much as they wanted to see me, and moved things very fast.

      Whereas the non-abusive men I have dated were always much more relaxed, and there was a key emphasis on fun and laughter. I noticed that I rarely laughed with my very abusive ex. It was all intense and about sex and intense chats which soon felt claustrophobic and eventually, miserable and like I was trapped.

      I would go with your gut. The dates don’t sound particularly fun? It also sounds a bit like your gut is not too happy about some of the things he has said. I agree that saying ‘its not about the amount of time but the quality of time’ is not a good sign because it hints at something called Fast Forwarding/Future Faking (if you look it up in google some good articles should come up about it). It’s where they want you to feel like you’ve known them longer. A genuine man tends to want to get to know you slowly too.

      This isn’t to say he is a domestic abuser, he might just be a bit lonely after divorce, or wanting a companion or sex. But they are things I would be very wary of now. If I met someone now I’d want to feel comfortable with them and basically have a good laugh and not rush anything at all. I also don’t like that he has already managed to inadvertently bring up sex by saying about this previous religious woman. It’s actually kind of putting pressure on you to be intimate with him implying he will be annoyed if he dates you and you don’t then want to have sex with him. Like “you better not date me and then not want sex.” Not cool in my opinion.

      Just my thoughts on it anyway.

      I don’t tend to think of it as practicing dating Tiffany but I do try to do some of those things as part of my self care (maybe it was someone else said it who was preparing to date). The thought of going on a dating site still makes me feel sick. I definitely agree we need to ‘love bomb’ ourselves and feel happy and at peace with our lives rather than look for a man to complete us.

    • #67015
      SunshineRainflower
      Participant

      Yay definitely give the book a try, I am currently re-reading it and I love it! It helps me so much.

      Actually I’ve just remembered there is a thing in the book she talked about called Artists Dates where you take your ‘inner artist’ out on a date just the two of you! So it could be a fun trip to a craft shop or maybe a museum trip or a guitar shop or whatever it is your inner child/inner artist wants to do. She gets you to go on one once a week ideally (the book is divided into 12 chapters and the idea is to read a chapter a week but I stretch it out over a year instead and take my time with it).

      Let me know if you start reading it and how it goes, I hope it helps. 🙂

    • #67016
      Tiffany
      Participant

      Must have been someone else! They are basically just good self-care things – I try to do them too. But I thought it was an interesting way to think about both self care and dating and the interplay between them. Now I am in a relationship again I am definitely having to keep reminding myself to keep putting that self-care first and not to consider relying on others to provide it. I like and trust the guy I am with, but I don’t ever want to be dependent on him for the care I should be giving myself. Nor do I want to be responsible for providing that kind of care for him. In my relationship with my abuser I put his needs above my own always and hoped that when I was in a bad place that he would put me first. Obviously he didn’t most of the time and I ended up ground down and miserable. But even if he hadn’t been an abuser I think it would have been an unhealthy dynamic and I want to avoid it at all costs in the future. I don’t know that I would have been able to do this straight out of the abuse though. I think it took time of doing my self care to know myself and what I need.

      I would agree with Sunshinerainflower that the guy you have been on dates with doesn’t necessarily sound abusive, but he does sound pushy (like she said, maybe he’s lonely or something). But that would be enough to make me feel uncomfortable. I would also say that repeatedly trying to put his arm around you, when your body language clearly says you are uncomfortable with it isn’t a great sign. It also sounds like you aren’t confident about your boundaries: you say you “wouldn’t mind, but”. It’s ok to mind. Your body doesn’t exist for anyone who fancies to touch. It’s yours, and it is up to you if you want physical contact or not. If you aren’t enjoying being touched you can make people stop. I have been dating the same guy for months now, I stay over with him several nights a week, and I still sometimes tell him that I am not in the mood and he is not to kiss me. Or not to touch me at all. That’s allowed. And a decent man will understand.

    • #67041
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I had my fair share of the ‘players’ when I was dating. Talking about sex early on is a huge red flag. It sounds like hes looking for sex. At first I was fooled into thinking posher men wouldn’t be like that you would expect it to be your rough and ready types. Not true I found them to be slightly worse. When they get into your space and get too touchy feely too soon that’s a bad sign. One way to find out is make them wait for a good long time say a few months. If they don’t get what they want they will be off like a shot long before that. At least then you wont be at risk of being used. Comparing you to other women and stating in an inadvertent way that she would not sleep with him due to religious reasons that says it all for me. I always had a rule keep my sloggies firmly on until I was absolutely sure! 🙂 xx best to be safe than sorry I would tread carefully and don’t be scared to step back or away xx 🙂

    • #67082
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Ladies I bought the artist way off (detail removed by moderator) at 5 pound and will read it as soon as it arrives.
      Your comments have been an incredible help. Truly. I fooled myself again but need to learn.
      (detail removed by moderator) he sent me a picture of him and his elderly dad. He has gone to visit him.
      I texted ( removed by moderator)
      It was, for me, a nice thing to say.
      He didn’t respond.
      That’s how my mind went…I must have upset him…probably he thought I was making an inappropriate comment…
      And instead of then concluding…well bad for him. If he takes offence he’s an idiot you know What I did??
      I sent another text saying  (removed by moderator). I tried to fix or prevent a possible disappointment that he may have felt.
      … I suspect the only good thing about dating now for me is that it is a mirror on my vulnerabilities and makes me understand how easily I slip into lowering my standards and sending myself to accommodate someome else’s crazy reactions.
      At least i am somehow very slowly getting to understand…which I hope is good.
      Thanks, really this has been incredibly valuable to me Xxxxxxxx

    • #67083
      Iwantmeback
      Participant

      Hi puzzledatlife, I’m looking fir the book too can you give the authors name for me. Thank you
      IWMB 💕

    • #67137
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      I am not sure. I just searched for the artists way and it came out. X

    • #67139
      SunshineRainflower
      Participant

      I’m so excited you got the book, I really hope it helps you. Iwantmeback the author is Julia Cameron, hope that helps. We should start a book club 🙂

      • #67160
        Iwantmeback
        Participant

        Thank you sunshinerainflower. I like the sound of it. Ive ALWAYS wanted to be a writer, who knows. Anything is possible😉🙂

    • #67151
      Tiffany
      Participant

      I think that the danger is that before you build up your self esteem, you can end up lowering your standards for the behaviour you expect from a partner until you accept the most appalling and abusive behaviour. Obviously, if you are lucky enough to have met a nice guy this won’t matter because your behaviour won’t change the type of man you are dating. But it is harder to spot and get rid of the unpleasant types. If you leave it until you are feeling better in and of yourself you will still notice these behaviours and urges to act in unhealthy ways, but I was definitely more able to analyse before I actually engaged in the behaviour, rather than sending the text and then regretting it. I still worry some about how the guy I am with will react to me. But I don’t try to change myself to be someone more acceptable any more.

    • #67176
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Tiffany you are right. My body language and instinct said Too soon, back off. When he brought this up I ended up feeling sorry for him and thinking I had done something hurtful to him. I changed my standards and my needs to match his.
      I am thinking to do dating just as a way of experiment to learn what I do…I have found this really valuable.
      X

    • #67179
      Tiffany
      Participant

      I would allow yourself at least a couple of months between experiences to process what you learn. I would agree that it is helpful – so long as you reckognised what is happening and don’t get sucked in. Honestly, it sounds like you are probably still at risk of falling for someone who is a more subtle manipulator. This guy showed his cards pretty early (second date!) But if he’d held off and been the model boyfriend in the beginning and you were now sleeping together and he was beginning to develop what looked like a good relationship with your kids, would you find it as easy to extricate yourself? My abuser could manage at least a month without abusive incidents, others can go even longer. And it’s so easy when we have low self esteem to let others control what we feel about ourselves. Once you are stronger and more confident you are less likely to get wound up in an unhealthy relationship.

      I took (detail removed by moderator) months before I tentatively went on a couple of dates. I was absolutely not ready, and I am really glad the first guy I met wasn’t attracted to me and didn’t want to meet again. I gave it a couple of months and met another guy, who immediately set alarm bells ringing once I met him and ditched him immediately. I had been using a dating app and had got pretty good at filtering out the most unpleasant characters before meeting them. I found that if you gave it a week of texting before meeting a lot of men would start waving red flags and saving you the bother of meeting up. I left at least a month between dates, and I still wasn’t really ready when I met the man I am with now, around a year after I left my abuser. I honestly wish I could have had longer single – I think it would have helped me feel more comfortable when I got into the relationship. It’s pretty much all ok now. He’s one of the good guys. Months and months have gone by without the slightest hint of a red flag and we have worked through my insecurities. But if it could have gone so very differently if he had been abusive. I think I was strong enough at that point to leave, but it would have done serious damage to my self esteem, and seriously set back my recovery. And if I had got straight into a new relationship in the immediate aftermath of my abusive one I know it would have been unhealthy even if my new partner had been a good man, because I didn’t know what was normal at that point and would have treated him like my abuser, because I was so conditioned to that being normal.

    • #67312
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      You are absolutely right. I myself don’t know what is normal and struggle a lot. I am in that dynamic of…if they are ok they are not good enough (I think because I feel not good enough) and if they are problematic I risk getting caught in, as i expect to be treated in a certain way. I don’t know if this makes sense.
      You are also totally right on what I would do if they show things once I am already attached. This is what happened with my ex. He was adorable for a long time. Only when he knew I was head over hills with him he showed me his place. It was absolutely horrendous. Won’t go through the details. It was filthy dirty messy dirty to a level of lack of hygiene…
      A normal person would have thought: messy man, disorganised and neglectful towards the kids. U can’t raise kids in this s**t. Dirty clothes mixed with clean clothes all on the floor, pets p**s mould kitchen full of dirt everywhere…pans unusable cupboards full of mould etc etc.
      How did I react? He seemed slightly embarrassed that his place wasn’t as nice and clean as mine. What did I feel? Sorry for him that he felt embarrassed. What did I do? Reassured I was ok with that. Stayed over and couldn’t sleep because of the bad smell. Covered my nose with a cloth to sleep. Took sleeping pills to sleep through my disgust. Asked to keep the window open and put ear plugs to sleep through the awful noise outside. Still better than the awful stinking smell inside. Put excuses as to why I would prefer him to stay at mine.
      And what else? Persuaded we could get his place nice and offered to help. Spent 3 full days cleaning and tidying up. Several pairs of gloves went. Ended up eroding my finger nails with bleach.
      Guess what? I was so happy. He was happy. His bathroom was without black mould first time in years. I had stabbed between tiles with the knife. I scrabbed the dirt off the walls. Emptied all cupboards fridge moved all furniture washed sofa cleaned all clothes folded them liked in nice shelves…Won’t go on you get the picture. I felt happy as very rarely I had felt. He was so grateful so happy all kids were happy.
      That is as sick as i go. Only 2 months in the relationship.
      I am definitely vulnerable to abuse. I totally get it.
      This relationship ended many many many months ago. Years now. But it has left me deeply deeply hurt and traumatised so even if months and years have gone on the calendar they have not moved as fast in myself.
      However I don’t want to get stuck in the time it was. For the first time I don’t want a partner. I guess that’s good. But I want to really get better.
      X*x

    • #67313
      Tiffany
      Participant

      Ok is absolutely not good enough! It’s thinking like that which saddles is with abusers. You are worth more than that. In fact you are better off without it! I guess this is easy for me to say because I am a person who generally enjoys being single. I revel in the freedom. But having dated an abuser I think my eyes are also wide open to how toxic relationships can be.

      I know I can treat myself far better than my abuser treated me. I started work on that first. Sunshinerainflower started a beautiful thread about the gifts people had bought themselves recently which is hugely uplifting and inspiring. It’s a kind of easy way in to ring good to yourself. And it doesn’t have to be hugely expensive. It’s just about seeing yourself as having worth. Because that’s what healing is really about to my mind. A new relationship is nice, if it shows up, bit recovery is really about recovering your relationship with yourself and your friends. Learning you are likeable and convincing yourself that you deserve nice things from life. Once you believe that you are not going to get trapped by an abuser again.

      And it’s ok if this takes time. Healing happens organically. If you put stress on yourself to be healed by a specific point, or that you should be healed by now, it just stresses you out and makes healing harder. If you broke your leg and it took longer to heal than anticipated you would be p****d off for a bit but ultimately the leg would be broken so you would accept that it wasn’t a good time for a skiing holiday. Same with recovering from abuse. Sure, it’s b****y annoying that it’s still affecting you. You are totally within your rights to be p****d off about that. But maybe don’t go skiing until your leg is healed to avoid further injury… There are after all lots of other ways to spend your time.

    • #67424
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Hi Tiffany. Thanks a lot.
      Yes I have seen the thread and moved me very much actually.
      I have fortunately a very good circle of friends and I love spending time with them. A busy career and am trying new hobbies. Unfortunately because I have a disability I have to be careful and can’t do some of the things I would love doing and did in the past like climbing hiking…But I have managed to substitute them. I have enrolled a dance class and I hope that will be more gentle.
      The problem for me is really attachment. I don’t see what I do to myself in a relationship until I have actually done it. Unfortunately my journey to recovery will be long very long because I think that one reason I have difficult relationships in this way is that I grew up in a very dysfunctional family. I have grown up just being beaten up for at least (detail removed by moderator) years. That was the easy part. The harder was being told I was not wanted and ugly in the outside and inside and just basically nobody could ever want me. I remember as a young girl saying to my mother “then why do I have so many friends who like me?” And she telling me “because friends never truly know you”. Remember my grandma once told me “you are a very intelligent kid”, me goimg to mom and say “you know nana told me I am intelligent?” And mom said “grandma is mistaken “. It was a constant constant thing. I run away from home at (detail removed by moderator) and missed home so much. I returned home and it was worse than ever. This has led me to have a strong sense of independence and self reliance. That is why I moved here. Didn’t speak a word of English when I arrived. Got into a (detail removed by moderator) programme without speaking one word. Completed in 3 years brilliantly. Qualified in (detail removed by moderator) in the meantime and worked as a (detail removed by moderator) and within 3 years I could speak well had a degree (detail removed by moderator) bursaries awards and permanent post. More importantly friends who have been like a family a son who adores me and with whom I have a splendid strong and serene nd secure attachment. But when it comes to be with someone I am a lost child. I don’t know anything about being a unit with another person. All the horrors come back again and again.
      I don’t want my past to define me.
      I want to understand the ways in which I do things to myself. For me dating now is like placing a mirror on myself. A sort of looking at my broken let on the mirror and see how much I limp or where I limp. I am very scared that I end up in another abusive relationship.
      I haven’t got any dates lined up anyway. But I may post things here again as a way of mirror and self knowledge if another date comes up.
      Xx huge kisses

    • #67426
      SunshineRainflower
      Participant

      Hi Puzzledatlife,

      I can relate a lot to what you said. It sounds like you experienced prolonged horrendous abuse at the hands of your family. There is a known correlation between childhood abuse and later on experiencing domestic abuse – statistics show survivors of childhood abuse are more likely to end up in abusive relationships (but not everyone who experiences childhood abuse will go on to experience domestic abuse and not everyone who experiences domestic abuse experienced abuse as a child).

      My childhood wasn’t as bad as yours but I experienced quite a lot of emotional abuse and some physical abuse too. I only realised it last year as to me it all just seemed normal and I felt like I deserved it because I’d annoyed them (that’s always how it was framed, that I was the bad wrong one, the difficult one).

      It takes a lot of healing and therapy to unlearn what we’ve been taught. Sorry if I’ve asked you already but have you had therapy for your childhood abuse? Because that will get to the root of it and help you heal the childhood trauma. And then you should start to see changes in the men you are meeting. It’s like our inner script is currently faulty due to being tampered with by abusers but we have the power to change the script with the right help.

      I have the same pattern with dating abusive men. I didn’t even know that most men I’d dated were technically abusive (mainly emotional) until I ended up dating someone who was so scary that it woke me up out of the spell. It made me realise that if I don’t change the pattern I could end up with someone who could kill me. That scares me so much but I have been working on changing the pattern ever since I realised. It’s like I’ve been dating the same man in a different body. All of them have (removed by moderator) traits: arrogant, entitled, aggressive, critical and act like I’m the problem – basically they match the behaviour of my family growing up. Finding the right therapist has been a nightmare and I still haven’t found one but I’ll keep looking. There are also excellent books about this stuff. I am reading through one currently about boundaries. Also look up books about trauma and the inner child in your library/amazon. You could start your own healing journey whilst you look for the right therapist (one who has excellent empathy and who is well trained in abuse).

    • #67427
      SunshineRainflower
      Participant

      Also, praise yourself for all you have achieved! You have truly done amazingly well. Frame your certificates and get yourself a treat for your achievements. Write them all down on a timeline and put it up on the wall. It will all help to build you up when you feel low. I’m going to write a timeline of work/achievements myself this week because I have some memory gaps from depressive episodes and often forget what I have achieved.

      You could also try starting an Achievement Log or Positivity Journal where each day or week you write down a list of things you’re proud of achieving that week. Also add any compliments you’ve received. All of it helps to break down those false critical voices in your head that were put there by your mother.

      Another good technique is to draw the critical inner voice and name it. Someone I know drew theirs as a mean old lady with an ugly name. It helps show them up for what they are and reduce their power – mean, small trolls who want to bring others down. I think mine is perhaps a multi-headed monster as it’s usually a combination of several toxic people’s voices from the past. Whenever I think of it as this silly ugly multi-headed monster it makes me chuckle a bit and see that it only has false messages.

    • #67442
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      When i went on the first date with my ex he had his arms round me and basically if id of been up for sex he would of been in like a shot. I had a lot of sexual messages in week 3 when i told him i wernt happy with this he apologised and started up again… thank god im out… i should of followed my gut feeling. X

    • #67490
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Sunshine the idea of a log of positive validation is brilliant. I’ll start from tomorrow.
      I am sorry you can relate to my experiences. I thought I’d tell you this. You say you ended up with the same men in different bodies. It is really scary. For me my abusers were totally different one from another. The first was an alpha male. Really charming super handsome super successful. Then after him I stayed away from handsome successful men. I didn’t find them attractive any more. So I ended up with someone who seemed Soooo gentle…uninterested in money in fame…someone who was attached to his family loved nature dogs cats led a super simple life…didn’t even have heating in the house just fire with logs. He would get up regularly every few hours to put logs in the fireplace to keep me warm…I thought I learnt then.
      But (detail removed by moderator) months in the relationship he started showing his colours. He ended up hitting me and I ended up feeling I didn’t want to live any more. How was it ever possible that someone so gentle and loving and kind could hit my child and me??
      Then chose different men and I was selective or so I thought. I ended a number of relationships that didn’t feel right. It made me feel I learned finally. Then ended up with my last partner that I described above. A man who appeared so different from the others. Fully committed to his kids.( Removed by moderator). There I saw a man who was able to put himself second who had the right priorities. Who would not let anyone down.
      I didn’t question how it was that his wife ended up nearly dead. How it was that he ended up raising kids who were not his. How he ended up having a kid with another woman who also had a kid from another man and who also ended up suicidal. I saw a man who sticks to his responsibilities. I didn’t see a man who leaves a lot of destruction behind himself. I didn’t even contemplate the possibility that he was a man who is excellent at destroying units. I saw a gentle man who keeps it all together. How funny is that? Very very very different men. A alpha male self centred and highly ambitious. A Peter pan who prefers to earn 500 pounds a month and live a very simple life in the middle of nowhere with dogs and cats, a man fully dedicated to kids, regardless of whether or not they are his own…Very different men and yet I could never see the dangers. I could never see how I was changing my boundaries and ignore my needs to fit theirs. I just wanted to share this because I am learning that a man who is different is not necessarily different if this makes sense.

    • #67491
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Icandothis…this is a huge problem. Following one instinct.
      I don’t know how we get there if we have been conditioned to ” think before you speak ” and that our instinct, our very basic ME is wrong…
      I am sorry for what I read in your message.
      I don’t see anything wrong in sex on a first or second date. The problem is how we respond to things that should instead alert us.
      I am quite old. Nearly (age removed by moderator). I don’t know how I am ever going to get things better…X

    • #67504
      Tiffany
      Participant

      Nothing wrong with sex on a first date, but everything wrong with one party pressing for it if the other person isn’t. That’s a massive red flag.

      Puzzledatlife, it occurs to me that if you have good friends and a good relationship with your child that you do know how to form good relationships. You are just treating romantic relationships as different in some way that isn’t helpful to you. If you can work out how or why then that might help you next time you end up in a romantic relationships.

      I realised after I left my abuser that although I had always looked up to my parents as an excellent relationship, that actually my Mum guilt trips and my Dad both shouts and sulks. Neither are abusive, just normal flawed humans, but I realised that I had accepted all of these behaviours from my abuser because they were normal and familiar to me. And following that experience I realised that I actually want to aim for a relationship that is better than theirs. That I find guilt trips, anger and sulking really upsetting and that I don’t want them to be major factors in my new relationships. So far so good. Obviously you can’t entirely avoid anger in a relationship, bit with my new man we talk things through rather than letting things fester and neither of us have particularly hot tempers, so no big arguments yet. The fact of the matter is that I wouldn’t be friends with people like my parents if they treated me to regular bouts of sulking or tried to guilt trip me. So there is no reason I should accept these things from a partner.

    • #67585
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Well said Tiffany! Why taking from a partner what you wouldn’t accept in friendship. And thank you for saying things about relationships. I thought that too…particularly with my son. Sometimes I have to think things through but most of the time I just follow my instinct with him and it’s always been a good guide. Sometimes I shout too! Not often…but that’s also ok. He accepts me and I accept him. We both know that nothing can ever crack our relationship. Maybe I do have the ability to form secure stable attachment. The challenge is how to make sure i can apply this to romantic attachment too…I am so glad you are in a situation where you feel.safe now. X

    • #67587
      maddog
      Participant

      These scars run so deep. My childhood was dysfunctional and it was a clinical psychologist who told me in my 20s that he thought I’d been abused. I responded that there wasn’t any sex. I didn’t know what he was talking about. It took me a very long time to understand.

      I was raped in my 20s which sent me reeling. I thought I understood by now what abuse was and what rape was. Then I met my ex. Wow the bar was low!

      I am now a post menopausal middle aged woman and divorced. I am in a new relationship which so far is great fun. Who knows what the future holds. Neither of us do. No red flags so far.

    • #67593
      Iwantmeback
      Participant

      Thank you @Tiffany. This is similar to how my parents were but it wasn’t abusive just normal human traits, as you say. My first husband, sulked and did the poor me routine, this one is so much worse. With my first, i always felt alone in bringing up our children,a single mum who wore a wedding ring . This time i feel im fighting to stay afloat.
      I so wish we could have the conversations with each other, like we have on here, like adults. First sign of a proper adult conversation and I’m told, there’s the door if you dont like it.
      I know Im not blameless, i choose to react when he’s screaming in my face or going to hurt one of the dogs(which I’m finding im doing less and less now)but the choice we make i think is automatic survival. Automatically defending yourself, your morals, your integrity. How can we not react, stay quiet, don’t make the situation worse. I know Im ‘lucky’ in that he doesnt batter me as some women are. But he threatens to, he threatens to slit my throat, slash my face, knock me out. And all i do is.. go on then, i will not show fear, i won’t, i cant. I think deep down, the minute I do that, he’s won and it’ll be even harder to leave.
      The strength I’ve gained in the past months,reading and posting on here, considering where i was, on the couch, covers over my head, barely eating or drinking, it truly is thanks to each and everyone one of the amazing women on here. I can see me more and more. Ib still don’t want to be in this relationship, he is still being the myso…ist that he is. But i see him fir what he is, clear as the nose on my face, i see it😢
      What I’m struggling with, is when he’s dressed nicely and has HIS smell(aftershave)on😪 Our senses are the last to go when we die, hopefully once these senses are gone with regards to him, that’s when I’ll know it’s time to go.
      Or he really fu..s up and I’ll have to go for my ain safety or peace of mind.

      IWMB 💕💕

    • #67973
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Iwantmeback sorry I reply so late. I sometimes want to push all out of my head. I found myself the same with my ex. Sitting in the garden smoking under a blanket. How did I end up with so little self respect behaving like a trapped child?! And yet I know I would still do the same…I just now begin to remember how familiar that was to me. How often I was put alone in a room and I only prayed getting some saints or my dead nanny as company. Alone with someome I love in the other room is just…basically the way I understand love.
      I am trying and it is like learning to swim.
      I am doing my dating training and the other day a man wrote something that made me feel uncomfortable. I replied to him this is not appropriate for me. It makes me feel uncomfortable. It was so good to just protect myself by listening to my instinct. Trusting I have a right to feel uncomfortable. Have a right to say so. I don’t have to make him feel comfortable. I don’t have to reassure him.
      Today my mom told me something about my son. He is off videogames because I realised that without even realising it he clicked yes a number of times to things that were popping up and spent a lot of money. I realised how easily he can get groomed into things. I didn’t punish him. We talked but I said now online is over and I need to think about it. My mother got between me and him and started saying that she’ll convince me to get him back online. She then told me I have to stop and prepared a nice conversation that in her view I should have with him. I should say “I thought about it and you can get back to play online but a little less” and she even told me what tone of voice I should have…
      I have a beautiful relationship with my son. I just hanged up on my mom.
      I am doing baby steps but I am trying…
      I agree is wonderful to have the perspective from other people who have gone sadly through similar difficulties.
      A life saver xx

    • #67974
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Maddog…so sorry for your awful trauma…
      I am also a post menopausal middle age…you g8ve me hope that things can improve even at our age X

    • #67975
      puzzledatlife
      Participant

      Tiffany. Yes I have a wonderful relationship with my son and what makes it solid is that I am attuned to him. I follow my instinct and that is usually a good thing. Nobody can go between me and my son. Same with my friends. You are right I think I can develop good healthy and solid bonds. I am wondering why with men is difficult. I find it difficult at work too. If someome is bully I find it impossible to say “this is not ok for me”…so I am trying really baby steps. X

    • #67978
      Tiffany
      Participant

      I totally get the work thing. I find it really hard to stand up for myself at work too. I guess I am actually using a single strategy with work as with my new boyfriend – knowing that I can walk away if it all gets too much and using that to decide what I say and stand up for and at what point I just walk away. Because if I get too stressed I freeze up and can’t make a decision. I like knowing that ultimately I have control over the situation.

      I have worked through a lot more with my work than with my new boyfriend, ultimately because I need a job, and I do not need a boyfriend. So I am willing to put up with more from work than I would be from a man.

      I don’t know why I find it so hard to stand up for myself though. I was a really well behaved kid, so maybe I just never really learned how to handle authority figures picking on me. Although how I came to see my abuser as an authority figure scares me. I would never let my current boyfriend do that. I think also that I sometimes try to empathize too hard, and that makes it hard for me to stand up for myself. This is more of a problem with relationships, but at work it can lead to me trying to take on too much to take the pressure off others and things like that, which can also be unhealthy.

      I would be really interested to know if anyone else struggles to stand up for themselves at work particularly, and if they have any insight as to why. It is an interesting cross over with abuse. Do we just stand for more, so we get more c**p, or is there more to it than that.

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