Is it abuse if I start the argument?

[Timidpussycat]

Story is in the title really, when I’ve had a drink, my insecurities set in and I start an argument, unintentionally. It started when my partner lied to me on a few occasions, irrelevant to our relationship but I still couldn’t accept why he lied so most of the time, I bring it up which leads to a big row but then it escalates, he starts to push me around, gets in my face, says hurtful things, and lately he has started hitting me, at first it was just pushing me and grabbing my hair but the past couple of weeks it has got worse, the first time ever, he punched me in the face last week. He worst thing is, we have a (detail removed by moderator) daughter. He has said hurtful things about her and even questioned if she is his, I have never been unfaithful to him. I just don’t know what to do. He is an amazing farther and he is brilliant to me, he has been the best boyfriend I have ever had. I have trust issues, I don’t know why because I have never been cheated on, lied to yes but no proof of been cheated on. I had a rough upbringing really, my mum and dad were alcoholics, they use to hit me and my brother. They cheated on each other. So I do believe my anger, trust issues are to blame. My mum died (detail removed by moderator) through alcohol. What I am trying to say is, is it abuse if I cause it? Sorry for the long post, this is my first post on here. I am in a perfect place at the minute, I have never been secure before, we have a nice home, a beautiful daughter, but I am not happy. I just need some advice really.

[freedomtochoose]

Hello lovely,
Thinking of you and so sorry you experienced this. Someone punching you in the face is not your fault.
Please get in touch with women’s aid and talk to them.
Just to reflect this back at you, you said he punched you in the face.
Try to do without the drink if you possibly can.

It just gives them an excuse to exploit your weaknesses.
All best
x

[SunshineRainflower]

Hi there,
So sorry about what has been happening to you. I am afraid to say your partner is abusing you. Abuse is really confusing because it happens in a cycle, not all the time so for example you say:

“he starts to push me around, gets in my face, says hurtful things, and lately he has started hitting me, at first it was just pushing me and grabbing my hair but the past couple of weeks it has got worse, the first time ever, he punched me in the face last week. He worst thing is, we have a (detail removed by moderator). He has said hurtful things about her and even questioned if she is his”

and then go onto say:

“He is an amazing father and he is brilliant to me, he has been the best boyfriend I have ever had.”

which are in direct contrast to eachother and a classic sign of abuse. Him pushing, shoving, hitting and punching are all signs of dangerous physical abuse and accusing you of cheating is emotional abuse. You then try to take the blame yourself in order to make sense of it. It is not your fault, he is choosing to abuse you as it gives him power and control. It’s just so painful to accept as we thought these men loved us and cared for us. Look up the Cycle of Abuse in google as well as the power and control wheel and it should help make more sense. Also ring the helpline and your local womens aid who will understand and be able to help you plan options. And keep posting as everyone here understands too.

[Serenity]

Hi There,

My long, controlling and abusive marriage began with me having to edit what I said to my husband.

I couldn’t sit down and talk to him calmly and rationally about things that were important to me. He would get angry.

Back then, I found myself feeling fearful and apologising to him, wondering if I was to blame. Now, in hindsight and after living for years in ever-worsening circumstances, I can see that he wasn’t ‘upset’: he was reacting like this to fear me into submission, teying tying to teach me that I shouldn’t question his ( questionable!) behaviour, that I should kiss his backside however he behaved.

But what happens here is that we self-edit; we feel pressurised into swallowing our feelings (‘or else’); we feel forced to ignore our own values in order to pay lip service to them.

This is their way of slowly beating us down. It is the abuser slowly turning up the heat, thinking we won’t notice that it is control and abuse.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but how I wish I’d had the courage or insight to walk away from my ex. He wasn’t interested in listening to me; he didn’t respect my thoughts or values; he didn’t try to put my mind at rest. All he cared about was himself.

I didn’t marry a man who wanted an equal partnership. Early on, he made mr feel that I could only ask him certain things. He was setting up the pecking order: him in charge, me the frightened, edited version of myself.

Abusers are notorious liars. They even lie about stupid things: they just enjoy lying. They don’t like being found out or challenged, however.

I was always a very laid back person, but by the end, I was fighting back. I was challenging and questioning him. I couldn’t bear it any longer. The oppressed always rise up in the end. You are within your rights to voice your concerns. Honesty is one of the very basic qualities needed in a healthy relationship.

My ex ended up being full of fakery. Don’t doubt your right to feel safe and to receive honesty in a relationship. xx

[Timidpussycat]

Thank you all for your replies, I will be taking your advice on board. I appreciate the advice. I may come across as in denial but is it abuse if I start the argument? I don’t do it intentionally. He says I push him that far, and I do feel responsible sometimes. I have never hit him back. We’re both argumentive. I’m just confused at the moment. It all started after pregnancy, before then, we was great. I think I just needed to get this off my chest as I haven’t told anyone and I’ve got no one to talk to about this really.

[starryeyed]

P.S. He is blaming you for his behaviour – you aren’t ‘pushing him’ to be violent with you. You aren’t responsible for his decision to be violent. It isn’t your fault. x*x

[Serenity]

Hi,

You ask whether you are abusive by being argumentative:

I suppose that when you drink, your insecurities may come out, plus you might have Dutch courage and be more likely to express the feelings that ordinarily you have stuffed down.

Of course, it’s more ideal to be able to talk about things rationally and calmly and without drink involved, as with drink things can escalate. We can end up saying and doing things we regret. So from that point of view, I suppose it is best to look squarely at the way that alcohol can impact things: does it help you to resolve things? Seemingly no- it just contributes to heated arguments, and maybe heightens you being at risk from his abuse, as the alcohol makes you more daring and argumentative. You might be more likely to use language that you wouldn’t normally use,too. Alcohol has different effects on different people. With me, I just cry and get emotional nowadays and my anxiety worsens – which is why I don’t drink- it was becoming really negative influence in my life. I know I had begun to drink a bit more than usual to cope with the pain – but it wasn’t helping. I was just trying to not face painful realities.

Are you abusive by arguing like this? I think it might help to look in terms of him as perpetrator. Perpetrators instigate abusive action ( lying, cheating, neglect, crjejry etc) and the victim will either be a passive recipient or will fight back.

It’s the ways in which they fight back which I think are important. Drinking, arguing back- I did that a few times, and it didn’t help. It just made him more angry- he didn’t want me to be brace and challenge him.

Drink can give us the courage to voice things that we don’t feel brave enough to voice normally. But the fact is, with a perpetrator, they do t want to hear our truths. The situation gets volatile and we are out more at risk.

I don’t think- from what I read in your post- that you are the abuser. I think that he is the perpetrator and you are the reactor. But you may not be handling or reacting to things in a way that is safest or most beneficial to you.

I think him lying about things is probably just one adjective if what you’re angry about. Reading about how he is, you’ve probably got lots of buried anger about the ways he’s treated you. He sounds very abusive.

When we are treated badly, feeling angry is normal and healthy. And we have a right to ask for an explanation if we feel that our intimate partner has been lying to us. The anger is a normal reaction and may be understandable – but it’s what we do with that anger that important. Whether we channel it helpful and constructive ways.

Trouble is, a constructive way would be to sit down and talk rationally with him about issues as they come up- but we know that perpetrators refuse to do this. They duck and dive, project, deny, walk out, get angry.

If he is a perpetrator who walks around with a false mask and relies on this mask, any challenge to it will result in rage from his end. He won’t listen and take on board your words, as they have no ability to self-reflect. They just get angry that you’ve dared to question their perfect social image. I know this because my ex was like this.

So in a way, your behaviour is goading him to react negatively- not because you are wrong to ask him these questions- in a healthy relationship you could ask these questions- but because you are dealing with a perpetrator, and challening them in that way never ends well. So no, you aren’t the instigator of the abuse, you are the reactor- but you might question whether the way you are reacting is safe or getting you anywhere. I am sure a lot of victims turn to alcohol to cope with the frustration and pain of being locked in an unhealthy relationship.

Are you able to see a counsellor, both to help you see how his behaviours are abusive, but to also duscuss coping mechanisms and ways forward? It seems you are stuck in a recurring cycle.

I worry for your safety: he sounds dangerous to me. Each time you argue, you are putting yourself at risk with this man. You can’t talk and reason with such people.

I am sorry if I have rambled, and I am sorry if my initial post wasn’t clear. I was using my relationship as an example to try to illustrate the possible issues in yours- it probably wasn’t clear. But you asked for a more direct opinion about your situation- I hope I have helped.

No, you aren’t the perpetrator, and to react to disrespect is human. But with a controlling perpetrator, challenging them is like holding a red rag up to a bull. If they cared about lying, they wouldn’t have done it in the first place. They just don’t care. They don’t like being challenged, that’s all.

It’s safer and more productive within an abuse situation to get outside help and advise to help you to see the abuse for what it is and consider your own reactions to it.

It’s all too easy to drink and for all the anger to come spilling out- I have been there. But I think it keeps us stuck in a repetitive loop of abuse, escalating tension, reaction- etc. What they call the abuse cycle. It takes away our power to respond in the best way.

[Serenity]

Typing errors:

I mean him lying is probably just one aspect of the things you are angry about- you’re hurt and angry about his other abuse too,
naturally.

Alcohol probably gives you the courage to voice things to him that you don’t feel confident enough it safe enough to at other times. But it is likeky putting you at great risk- plus if he is a perpetrator, none of this will be making him reflect on his own behaviour. It’s just giving him ammunition to blame you.

[starryeyed]

Hey Timidpussycat,

There is some really good advice from the other women on this thread, I fully agree with what they are saying.

After incidents, my ex would say that they were silly drunken arguments for example. This was totally minimising what had happened and made me very confused about what had actually gone on. I do not think they were arguments. Arguments are between two people – not just one – and they consist of a back and forth. Usually they can be debated and in a healthy relationship there would be negotiation and maybe you could agree to disagree. An argument isn’t someone accusing you of cheating on them for example with no evidence or no reason to think this, not listening to you and ignoring what you say, shouting and swearing at you – and nothing you say or do seems to get through to them – they are in what seems like a closed off bubble of anger that gets more and more intense.

Drinking can make our insecurities come out, I find drinking can do this with me too. I agree with Serenity that maybe it gives you some more courage to voice your concerns but it is putting you at risk and also he will just turn it back on you as ammunition. My ex did the same. And if I had a drink it was a great reason to tell me that I just didn’t remember or he couldn’t remember.

I was told that abuse is likely to get worse when you are pregnant/after pregnancy too, so this is worth bearing in mind. Please be safe because he is already physically harming you – that is abuse and it doesn’t matter if you started the argument – it doesn’t warrant abuse. You also said it started with ‘just’ pushing you or grabbing your hair – I wonder if he has been minimising his behaviour to you by saying it was ‘just’ a push? You say he is a brilliant father and the best boyfriend you have ever had – I’m sorry, but reading what he does to you, he doesn’t sound brilliant or the best. I’m sure there are times he is good to you – because you fell in love with him and you wouldn’t be with him if he was awful to you all the time…but those good times are not consistent and he is abusing you.

Are you able to call the Women’s Aid helpline or your local Women’s Aid and get some advice? Stay safe and keep posting x*x <3

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