Need to know if it is or not

[enofadov]

Quick background. Been with husband since school married several years and 2 young children.
Started with difficulties as I had had a sexual partner before meeting husband (one time sex when I was age removed by moderator, looking back not rape but I didn’t really understand what I was getting myself into?) husband couldn’t cope with this and struggled to continue with relationship, always bringing it up and when drunk calling me names for it, there was a lot of jealousy during these first years especially on nights out where husband would often be aggressive with anyone who talked to me. After we moved in together he talked about wanting to visit a prostitue to even the score but I said I couldn’t let him. Early on in relationship we had anal sex which I wasn’t happy with but he explained it was something I hadn’t done with anyone else so made it special. This continued with most times we had sexual him asking for anal sex and often me feeling I had to do it to please him. He knew it was painful and I often cried during but I always said I was ok and he treated me with such love and affection afterwards I kept going through with it. It was slowly ruining sex for me as I knew that was always coming and nothing else was good enough and if I said no it was a disappointment to him. He’d often ask for other things andnif I said no he’d say why did I have so many things I wouldn’t do. Following the birth of my second child I seemed to gather strength to say I didn’t want to do it any more, if I’m honest I wasn’t scared he would leave me any more as I had my children and I knew I’d be fine?? Anyway the relationship has gone downhill since the birth of my first child, I know I’ve shut down from him emotionally and I feel he is manipulating me daily. He is often aggressive, once smashed a mirror and gave me a little shove but then stopped himself, said this was because he was having health problems and I wasn’t being supportive. He once shut the car door on the back of my legs after a disagreement, other than this he’s not violent. (detail removed by moderator) we had a particularly rough time and were not communicating very well. One night after he’d been drinking I had initiated giving him oral sex but then he became rough, holding my head down and taking my clothes off to have full sex when I was crying and had said no. He has since explained this was because he was desperate as I’d said I didn’t enjoy intimacy any more and he was trying something new.
He has said the anal sex doesn’t matter as it was so long ago and I was a willing participant. He tells me I don’t like affection and he is the affectionate one, he calls me a n********t and said I lack empathy, he’s questioned my mental health and says I may have post natal depression. He encouraged me to go for couples counselling but after  a few sessions the counsellor asked to see me alone and now refuses to see us together as she says he is being emotionally abusive and has shamed me and coerced me into doing sexual things I don’t want to throughout our entire relationship.
Even though I’ve heard this I still can’t believe it. He says we are both part of it and I’m just trying to justify why I want to leave him and yet I still can’t leave. The main problem is the children and I don’t want to break up their family.
(detail removed by moderator)
I just feel in a permanent fog of confusion and don’t know what to do. I’ve tried to speak to my mum but can’t go into details of the sexual issues and she just said we have both manipulated each other which worries me it’s my fault and that is how people would see it if we split.
Sorry this is so long and confusing just feel I need someone to talk to

[starryeyed]

Hi there,

Welcome to the forum and I’m really glad you reached out and posted here because it is a really tough thing to do – give yourself some serious credit for doing that.

I am so sorry that this is happening to you, reading what you wrote makes me really worried for you. I’m sorry to say but your counsellor is right, you are experiencing abuse. He has been emotionally, sexually and physically abusive to you. You say that you feel in a fog of confusion – please listen to this feeling because that is a HUGE indicator that you are being abused.

It is really hard to see red flags and warning signs of abuse in the early stages of being with our partners, but it is really, really, really not healthy for your partner to be so jealous and manipulative about your past. He should not be making you feel guilty or bad about having ANY sexual relationships before meeting him. That is absolutely horrific and this level of jealousy is terrifying. My ex was incredibly jealous and controlling as well, he made me feel bad for my past relationships and experiences before meeting him – he would threaten to leave me, make me feel guilty and like it was my fault, demand details about the sex life .etc. How dare your partner say he wants to even the score by visiting a prostitute while you are together now? That is NOT normal, healthy thinking or behaviour. Your comment about a**l sex rings true for me – my ex and I never did this but I felt like it was something I could do to prove to him that I loved him, something I had never done before so it could be special, like he was taking my virginity. Your partner is coercing your into sexual acts that you don’t want to do – just because you do something once and wanted to, does not mean that you have given consent every time. He is not taking your feelings and desires into consideration. And I’m sorry, how aggressive he was when he was ripping your clothes off and you didn’t want to have sex – him saying that he thought he would try something different? No consent there and why is he not asking you what you want or being attentive to your sex life? That is a healthy way of being intimate. His behaviour is frightening.

I also think he is gaslighting you. Keeping you walking on eggshells, like you are the one losing your mind. Him calling you a n********t and saying you lack empathy – he is projecting himself onto you…to make you more confused! My ex did this to me as well, said I have no empathy and that I was emotionally abusive to him, no respect for him, not even a half decent human being. It is horrible to hear, I’m so worried I am a n********t. The fog of abuse is cloudy and difficult to understand. Please remember, this is not you and this is not your fault.

I can understand that you don’t want to break up your family, but living in this environment is not healthy or productive for your children as well as for you. Domestic abuse can get worse after you are pregnant, have children, or are planning to leave – so please be mindful of this and take care and stay safe. It may be good if you can go and see the counsellor on your own? I think they could help you tease out your situation and you can have some time to reflect and think about what you want to do? Also, have you called Women’s Aid helpline or contacted your local Women’s Aid? It would be really good to speak to some professionals about your situation and get some more support.

I can understand that you can’t go into details with your mum, that makes total sense and also you probably don’t want to explain everything to her. She doesn’t know the full story and she probably don’t understand domestic abuse – it is really difficult to understand. I would advise not speaking to her about what is going on, because it isn’t helpful her saying that you have BOTH manipulated each other. Because from what you say, I don’t think you are manipulating him as much as he would LOVE you to think that.

Take care of yourself and keep posting on here as much as you need x*x <3

[enofadov]

Thank you so much for your reply starryeyed.
I don’t know why I need so much reassurance that this is abuse, it makes me feel so much better the more someone agrees but then I’m constantly worried I’ve only given my side or made it sound like it’s worse than it is?? Is this normal? Like my husband is generally a good man, he holds down a good job, cooks my tea and we’ve built a house and a family together?? We have so many good memories together could this just be a bad time?? I have made the step to ring women’s aid and they are ringing me back. I never did this before as I never thought I qualified for domestic abuse but maybe it’s the right place?
Didn’t know there were local branches to ring?
I keep thinking maybe I should just try harder with him to get along and just ignore these feelings for the sake of the children as once you’ve had children it is them that matter?
The gaslighting sounds very true, like when we talk he uses really long words to try and confuse me (I would say I have a pretty good vocabulary but he uses like ridiculous words!) and he’s been talking about these psychological attachment styles that he thinks I’m am which I don’t agree with. I’ve noticed he does really strange things in front of my family where he kind of tricks me into snapping at him and then plays the victim so it looks like I’m horrid…..that sounds really stupid but for example the other night we were out for tea with my family and I’d written down the order for my kids meals and asked for the larger portion for both kids, he went to order and when it came my younger child had got the smaller portion. Now this was not a big thing at all and I was not having a go or mad or even that bothered, so maybe I should have kept quiet? But I just said oh I ordered 2 big portions and that’s all I said but he somehow turned it round so I was having a go and he was apologising and I felt I’d snapped at him and I don’t think I had. I don’t think that makes sense but I can’t remem how he did it or understand what happened, but this confusion is a good example I suppose?
He asked me the other night what was it that I wanted from him by bringing all this up and I really don’t know…..if it was as simple as I just wanted out why don’t I leave?

[starryeyed]

Hi there, you are most welcome. I’m not a professional and I’ve only just come out of my relationship, but I can tell you that I consistently need reassurance myself that my relationship was abusive emotionally and possibly sexually (finding that difficult to know). I also worry that it is just me and my side of things, or that I overreacted – so I would say this is really normal to experience. Also my ex would always say things he said/did was only a joke, I was too sensitive or overreacting and lost my sense of humour, and his consistent minimalising made me really question my own thoughts and feelings. I still feel like it was a bad dream, not real, maybe I made the whole thing up. But I have spoken to police and professionals and I have evidence and facts that he has been and is abusive and I have to keep reminding me of this.

There are going to be good times in your relationship or things about your husband that you love – else you wouldn’t have fallen in love with him right? It would be far more clear to leave if things were always bad. So he cooks you tea…but he also coerces you into sex and makes you feel guilty for your past? My ex held down a good job, he was decadent with presents he got me, he told me he loved me and he could be really attentive – I genuinely believed this man was my soulmate and I am still in love with him (or who I thought he was) even though I know he was abusive to me – I know, makes no sense. Google trauma bonding if you are able to. You ask if it could be a bad time, but it sounds like his abuse has always been there – at the start you mention his obsessive jealousy – that is a huge red flag. He has already been physical towards you too – and blamed his health problems, which is a textbook excuse for abuse. My ex used his mental and physical health as reasons for how he treated me and his physical health was used as a way to play victim and take my focus away from what he was really doing. There are no reasons or excuses for someone to abuse you – not health problems, not stress, not alcohol, not drugs .etc.

I’m really pleased you called Women’s Aid, I hope the chat goes well and keep trying them if you can’t get in contact. I think you are definitely in the right place. There are local branches in some areas of the country, maybe have a google if you can on an incognito browser? Type in your location and Women’s Aid and it should come up, or the closest one to you. They offer some really good outreach support, refuge and programmes like The Freedom Programme to help you understand what is happening.

I don’t have children myself so I can’t speak from first hand experience, but from reading others posts on here and speaking to some women at Women’s Aid, the impact of abuse on children is huge and staying in an abusive environment can be worse for them than separation.

Abusive men will always seem to be absolute experts in everything – especially psychology. Sorry if your husband is a psychologist or worked in that field for a long time – if this is the case, then I’d say he knew what he is talking about. If he doesn’t – then these psychological attachment styles that he thinks you are? That’s absolute rubbish! Don’t believe him! He is diagnosing you and trying to make you think it is your fault and you are crazy!

He definitely sounds like he is gaslighting you. And it doesn’t sound stupid at all. Honestly, most of the things that happened in my relationship sound ridiculous to me, I keep thinking they make me sound crazy, but they are not ridiculous or silly. They are happening to us.

You asked that huge, age old question that everyone always asks people who have experienced domestic abuse – why don’t you leave? If only it was that simple. You love him, he is manipulating you, he is coercing you but giving you intermittent affection and love – like a carrot dangling on string, you have children together, you live together, you are married. Leaving a healthy relationship is hard enough, let alone when it is abusive.

Take care of yourself and keep posting too – you are totally entitled to be here <3 x*x

[Pixies]

I’m also worried that I’m overreacting, making a big deal of things, only giving people my side of it and making it worse than it is. And I still believe that quite strongly, and I even go back on things I’ve said (on online forums) and say how this or that could be my fault partially because of my mental health, or my fear of confrontation etc. I used to get really offended and worried when I was just having a rant about things and someone would tell me that his was abusive behaviour. Now I don’t feel offended or worried, just really confused!!

Abuse to me is a conscious thing that someone does, but I suppose that if the person believes they are doing what they do for a good reason, then maybe it isn’t being nasty on purpose. I don’t know?!

Anyway, I’m just as confused.
Thank you for your reply on my topic too, I’m glad sharing my experience helped you feel less alone.

Take care

[Pixies]

I meant to say, whether we are confused or not, I guess something to hold onto is how many times have we made our partners cry? Or hurt them without feeling absolutely terrible for it? Or said nasty things, been wholly unsupportive in times of need, would we ever treat anyone like that?
We deserve to be happy and peaceful and safe.
X

[enofadov]

Thank you starryeyed….yeah my husband is the same, minimising everything but when you’re in the conversation I believe him every time and then as soon as I’m alone and replaying it it all seems so wrong. The other night when I finally admitted to him that abuse had been mentioned by my counsellor, he laughed at me and called it ridiculous.
I will google the trauma binding thank you and after speaking to Womens aid I will consider trying some of the support groups if I can. She also gave me some numbers of solicitors but I just don’t think I’m there yet?
The children are my main sticking point, I like to tell myself if I didn’t have them I’d have gone but I don’t know if this is true. I do understand that they can be hurt being around a toxic relationship but what about the other side being from a broken home? Just kills me to think of telling them and having them go through all the things that will happen, don’t know if I’m strong enough???? The carrot analogy is definitely one I recognise and it’s so true.

Thank you Pixies…..your situation does sound familiar in many ways. I had in my head this was a conscious thing he was doing and so when I confronted him he would be caught out, but does he even know he’s doing it??? My counsellor says he will never admit it but if there is any hope of moving past it he must do this and take full responsibility, but I worry for me to leave he needs to do this anyway or I will not believe it’s real???
This is horrible for me to admit but each day a part of me hopes he will do something more concrete again so I can know for sure this is abuse?? You are totally right though….I have never said anything horrible to him even in anger, even when I’ve been ill??
Like in an argument a few weeks ago when he was accusing me of being unfaithful he said he hated me for what I’d done to him…called me a c***t and said I was mental and then threw a (detail removed by moderator), it was the closest he’d ever come to really hurting me I felt, but then the next day he just said sorry I’d pushed him to it as he thought I was having an affair and he had lost it he knew but it was for a reason, why can I not see this as bad enough??? I’m struggling to forgive the things he called me, he said he didn’t mean them but like you said I could never call him anything like this…..

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