5th July 2019 at 11:58 am #82435
when does the anxiety finally subside? ive asked my eldest daughter not to contact me since she told me I was abusive for gong no contact. now im thinking does she have traits like her father? if you can call your own other abusive (and im obviously not) then be asking are you ok mum? over a text. what do you do. this morning. I feel like my mum and dad have become her surrogate mum and dad. she is kind off triangulating them against me. this feel like its never ending which is the hardest thing to handle. I wonder how the future will pan out with every relationship being so fractured. bad day I guess – hopefully tomorrow will be a better day – I thought I was past the stomach in knots stage but its back with a vengeance. im wondering too is anxiety long lasting?
5th July 2019 at 11:59 am #82436
mother not other xx
5th July 2019 at 12:47 pm #82442KIP.Participant
I’m going through kind of similar having fallen out with family members. My new mantra is ‘step back from the crazy’. All anxiety isn’t bad. Anxiety can keep us safe, motivated, aware etc. It’s when the anxiety is prolonged and affects our health badly we need to look at it. Manage it with relaxation meditation avoidance etc. I know my son has inherited some traits from his dad but he’s old enough to know right from wrong and good behaviour from bad. Protect yourself in all of this and don’t step into the crazy x
5th July 2019 at 6:29 pm #82467AlwaysSorryParticipant
Sending you a big hug DM.
I do think there is such a thing as learned behaviour and I think most of us have been in a situation where the abuser has said something horrendous to us only to follow it up with what seems like a remark of kindness or caring. It baffles and confuses us every time doesn’t it. It sounds like maybe your daughter has learned this kind of behaviour from him and is using it against you now, perhaps. I think it’s possible, I’ve seen my ex copy his mother’s behaviour (his father was rarely around so he wouldn’t have been able to copy much behaviour from him, sadly). I was often called the abusive one by my ex, and so I think when your daughter is calling you that, that’s also just another tactic in the toolbox to try and hit us where it hurts the most. You’re not abusive, DM.
Sometimes we can’t love the bad away (try as we might!) and so I think it shows tremendous strength that you chose to go no contact with your daughter in attempt to avoid the abuse. It’s ok to put yourself first and to step away from that behaviour as KIP says. Be good to yourself tonight xx
6th July 2019 at 11:59 am #82513
thanks to you both beautiful words actually – and it does hurt but what choice do we have but to step away from the crazy.
(detail removed by moderator) i have 10 missed calls its my dad and when i get him hes crying. its another special occasion in our family soon and my daughter is triangulating my mum and dad against me. the thing is my dad is elderly but not stupid. he sees what happening – i admire his wisdom. he said to me you know your dealing with control from afar? your dealing with a psychopath and its going to tear us all apart if we let it – but your my kid and that will never happen. thank goodness for sane people! my daughter also recieved something (detail removed by moderator) signed by my daughter and her dad. he isnt suppose to contact her by letter or card. not sure whether to act on this or leave it? i know this could cause another storm. im so glad my dad sees that in going no contact and that amounts to all off that side im keeping my youngest out off harms way. the fear off the balance tipping is always there because you know these men just dont stop and on the slightest whim they explode xxxx love diymum
6th July 2019 at 6:30 pm #82559
I would suggest to deal with the card with your youngest, in your way, with the tender loving care and wisdom you always offer her, with emotional support and decide together what needs to happen to it, giving her space to think about how she feels about it – or it maybe it’s no issue to her at all? If this is the case and she’s moved on already then I’d leave it. Then stash it and log it. I’d try to intercept anything else in future, and check it before she reads it – clearly they can’t be trusted and have broken a term in the order.
I think the only way to deal with the triangulation is to ignore it and to focus on your ralationship with each parent only. I know this is easier said than done, it’s about catching yourself doing it and saying to yourself, stop. Putting it out of your mind – why give it any time and thought DM as it’s spending time in her delusions / false reality. It’s simply not true. Your parents will make up their own minds, so will others, but if these people feel they know you then they will not hear anything your eldest says, in fact the more she does say, chances are this could lead folk into realising what is really happening here. Hugs xx
6th July 2019 at 7:36 pm #82569
my dad can see what happening thank goodness – god they really do play on your worst fears dont they? loosing everyone you love – why? its so rotten. i tore the card up and put it in the bin – i gave her the money to spend and ive decided to reinburse my eldest daughter for this later today. i can believe she signed it from her dad too. it just goes to show she thinks its all ok – wow it must be denial she is in x*x
6th July 2019 at 9:46 pm #82592
Exactly, he knows you, that is all that matters hey. You were one step ahead then as usual lol. I’ve noticed that with my ex, the longer his fantasy and delusions play out and the more people he tells that he thinks belive him, the more he only carries on and it gets worse, I do get it hun, sometimes the things he says to me lead me into thinkin this is me you’re talking to here so cut the BS, I’m not one of your puppets, you cant pull the wool over my eyes! And you cant re write history! Its like he believes his own lies, has to live out the fantasy at all times. It’s utterly mad and crazy really and I find it really scary, there is nothing he won’t do – which he has shown me hey.
Sounds like she wants to move on to me and brush it all under the carpet, not address things, my sister in law is like this, not look at what she can do to change it, what needs to happen here xx
7th July 2019 at 12:46 pm #82641
yeh its total denial and i get that that is a protective mechanism. i was always told you you get what you sow with kids. thats what hurts i gave her my heart and soul and she has turned out like him! id never have guessed this could happen. if i had witnessed what she did as a child there is no way on earth i would have chosen this path, no way. so dissapointed to sat the least.
im so proud of my dad he sees ive taken a step back and why his words ‘control’ he gets it thank goodness he said he sees it around him in other relationships close to him so he knows. he knows and understands i can be part of any off this and he knows im protecting my little one first and foremost she has to come first x*x
7th July 2019 at 12:47 pm #82642
she was so triggered seeing his name written there yesterday xx
7th July 2019 at 12:54 pm #82644
she was one step ahead this time fizz i tore the cards up but inside the present there was their message xx
7th July 2019 at 2:16 pm #82663
My child is so like her dad sometimes it frightens me; I’m not ready to throw in the towel just yet but sadly, I can see that maybe one day that day might come, guess I’m mentally and emotionally prepping myself incase. I feel heartbroken thinking this now, and yet I can visualise some relief letting her go if this was the case – feels like such a horrid thing to admitt and to think.
It’s her lack of empathy sometimes that concerns me, her negativity with life and others sometimes, I haven’t raised her this way at all, my son, who I raised alone, is consistantly kind, compassionate and caring.
It’s made me think that yes there are definately environmental factors at play here, but more recently I also starting to think there are genetics as well. It could be she was born to be this way? So it could always be an uphill battle.
She asked me if she could kill an insect yesterday, I know it’s only a small thing and maybe anger related, and as she grows and has more input from more healthy others, she will grow and develop, but this left me feeling horrified, I just cant undertsand it, I have always tried to show and teach respect and kindness to nature. Maybe she knows this and her attack was not really on this creature, it was actually an attack at me, probably. Leaves me feeling scared and deeply concerned though – perhaps I’m over sensitive too. Just got to keep trying to do what I believe I guess and live in hope – same for you flower x
7th July 2019 at 2:47 pm #82668
i know with my eldest this change didnt come about until about age 16 – she was bullied and was unable to face this. after this she became some one who took no prisoners. i very much think this is survival mode to protect themselves and anger is at play. i will always love her but she will have to change her ways and show us respect before she comes back into our lives.im not sure its genetics i feel conditioning from there fathers for sure. it n ot easy is it? here for you xxxx
7th July 2019 at 2:49 pm #82669
i am wondering tho do people have a pre- disposition to narsasstic traits like in types off physical ilnesses and mental x*x
7th July 2019 at 7:53 pm #82726
We’re all born with N traits DM, most of us grow out of this when we develop empathy. This is why we can spot the traits in self and others – relate. I do think her father has a serious mental illness, undiagnosed though; his son, from a previous relationship is so very like him as well, they both have a tendancy to be ‘really sweet’ – overly, but can change in a flash and when you hear what angry delusions they voice, which they both seem to work pretty hard to covert every day – what they say is sick and vile. They appear as incongruent – like in a permanant state of stress really – lots of mixed messages because they can not relax and be true to self – because if they were true to self, they know they wouldn’t be socially accepted, he knows he can not say what he really thinks as this is cold and callous.
There is a chemical imbalance occuring for sure; his mum’s an N as well, and his sister – all v cold and detached, devoid of emotions, except for anger; always reactive, zero emotional intelligence – more a learned way to hide it when in public. Unsure about genetics, would have to look into it more, but imagine there could be something in it. Look at the psychopaths like Paris Bennett, his mother appears like a typical loving mother, this child seems to me that he was born this way.
I do know that with N’s the part of the brain that processes emotions is much smaller than usual; that it may be considered a severe mental health problem, but it is thus also a learning difficulty. Trauma can inhibit the development of the brain in childhood, so this part of the brain doesn’t develop or there is a delay in development, but some people are hard wired from the start and thus have a very limited capacity for growth and change – they’ve got to want to for a start and the N rarely sees that he does, it’s always someone’s else’s fault – so most never make it to therapy x
7th July 2019 at 8:01 pm #82727Twisted SisterParticipant
Dear [email protected]
Sending you strength for yet another hurdle!
Another you seem to be also overcoming! Keep on keeping on there love.
The kids growing up is such a process and a rollercoaster of one, especially when they’ve been played by an abuser and abused.
Hold strong to your boundaries, show love, show strength, understand their anger at you, it’s misdirected, but use your dad also to help her understand.
I was so nodding at KIP, your anxiety is also your friend. Understanding it, and acting on it to remain in control of your life.
You will always be your daughter’s mum, she only has you as her mum. No matter where she is or who she goes to, you will always be her mum.
7th July 2019 at 8:11 pm #82730
i had no idea off all off that – wow its alot to take in isnt it xx my exs family were the same all of them bullies. they pushed there way to get to the top and always defended each other even when there actions were very wrong. they had an inferiority there deep down always casting an eye over my house at what i was wearing. not nice. i was alwayss put down by them infront everyone mainly about me having low intelligence! thanks lol i walked out of many family meals crying. i always felt i made my eldest entitled because i over compensated i always put her first. but we should shouldnt we. wonder what research there is on all off this xxxx
7th July 2019 at 8:14 pm #82732
tanks TS thats brought me to tears – all very true and the anxiety has subsided ive had two days off rest. feel abit guilty for it but i know these feelings pass and we have to look after our health emotional too. im so glad the out come for you has been good xxxx you sound like a lovely mum xxxx 🙂
7th July 2019 at 8:18 pm #82734
You have done absolutely the right things for me; you’ve removed your little one from the relationship – a relationship that would have continued to harm her. It’s very sad yes about your eldest, but you have to focus on keeping your youngest out of harms way, to give her a chance to grow and develop, be a child, gain the ego strength and emotional strength she needs to deal with him and life – this way she has a real chance; the way I see it is, had she had to deal with him ongoing through childhood; she wouldnt really get the chance to break free until adulthood hey; with years of therapy needed to recover from it or worse.
I totally get why you have had to let go of your eldest, I know I wouldnt be able to take any more at some point if it doesnt change or gets worse, there isn’t another way when they become an abuser – hence my concerns in our situation, a person can only take so much, and you simply cant keep taking it as they grow bigger and turn into adults – it gets more frightening and out of control.
Have you ever spelt it out to her fully and said if you ever want to be in our lives this is how we need you to be? Only the way you get triggered leaves me wondering if you may need to cut contact completely – make it official; you dont want her texting you do you or to bump into her or for her to call round unannouced when all you get is the same old BS.
What did Einstein say, maddness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome or for something to change – or something like. Nothing has changed in your situation has it – so you will continue to feel triggered everytime she pops into your mss or a like. I wonder if you need to draw a line? Either she changes and you both find the resolve you need or you need to change how you deal with it, as atm you’re not wide open no, but the door is open a jar. Maybe that door needs closing for a bit with a clear message re how she could open it again in the future should she wish to? x
7th July 2019 at 8:30 pm #82737
ive told her her behviour triggers me – im ashamed to admit ive told her shes turned out like him. i probably should have said it but that was my true feelings. she dosent like that so she knows he is controlling. she feels now that she dosent remember any of the abuse she saw- it wasnt aimed at her (but some of it was) she thinks i should get over it. ive given him high blood pressure and he has been diagnosed with separation anxiety because off me and the fact i took the little one away from him and wouldnt give up till i did. that i live in a bubble and have cut everyone off especially her and thats not normal. i am now emotionally abusing her and punishing her for the way she behaved when she was at home. she had acted in frustration at me and she would hate to turn out like me.she feels like shes in the middle off us as he tells her if you go down there to play happy families with them dont come back here. she has told me she thinks im abusing her sister in taking her away from her. so she dosent see that i had no choice if i hadnt gotten this stopped my youngest would have been damaged – she would have been pitted against me too xxxx
7th July 2019 at 9:36 pm #82748
Sigh. JUST an idea, how would you feel about writing her a letter to say you need to cut contact, no texts, to include the need for scheduled times with mum and dad. Would be easier to do when you cut down your hours maybe? Write a clear message, say how much you love her but you cant have this didrespectful behaviour, it has to be kindness and respect for you, the relationship, and how things need to be regarding her father; say what you need to say, try to get it as concise as possible; see it as an exercise only atm, to then see, when you’ve gone through the process of formulating it and writing it, finishing it, how you feel.
Sounds like the last time you spoke about things it got heated and emotional – understandbly so – maybe try to take the emotion out of this letter, have a little heart yes, wouldnt be you to write any other way would it, but keep to the key points – what do you think? Go through the process?
I can see why you feel this is unmanageable; she’s out of control isnt she; wild accusations, doesnt get it, doesnt understand the complexities of abuse and can not see it from each person’s perespective involved in it; feel pretty angry myself she sees you this way tbh – clearly she does not ‘see’ you at all does she. She’s made a lot of false assumptions and has a lot of expectations that she’s trying to place on you hey.
She’s very fixed in her thinking regarding what is and is not normal and just trying to use a societal norm for her argument here isnt she; it is absolutely normal to not tolerate abuse hey; problem is, same old problem isnt it, they simply can not see how their words and actions impact on others, is abusive and causes upset, stress and distress.
Just my thoughts DM x
7th July 2019 at 11:42 pm #82761
again i feel and in all cases off dv this isnt something i can deal with sometimes we have to put our hands up and say we need professional help. i dont think its family counselling we need though. im not sure there is any help out there for the aftermath of dv on kids well shes not a kid now i guess.
im in the trenches on this one for now – i get how when were hurt we struggle to get back up sometimes. i know its all in our mind set but this is too close to the bone for me right now – im going to step back from this, if i can for now xxxx much love DM xx
8th July 2019 at 12:08 am #82764
So v important to recognise what you dont feel able to deal with isn’t it. Might not feel like it but this is a step in the right direction. You dont know what to do and have thought and thought and thought! You will get through this, it will change one way or another and soon, once you start and get going. It will have to feel right for you whatever you decide in therapy, so it will be ok. If she suggests something that doesn’t sit with you – say so – talk it through. You will find a way to resolve these horrid feelings x*x
8th July 2019 at 12:18 am #82765
There’s very little to no specific DA support for kids really is there, I think because SS and CAMS are supposed to cover it? Only they don’t do they. The legal tape involved as well setting things up for kids must be a nightmare, it would be great to have a service for children that also included adult children x
8th July 2019 at 2:51 am #82766Twisted SisterParticipant
Thank you, we’re all just trying to do our best aren’t we and its a hard often heart-breaking road.
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