One big mess

[Ruby2shoes]

Hi I’m new and looking for any advice and support please, I’m sorry this is going to be a long post. I’ve been with my husband decades – together for (detail removed by moderator)years and married for (detail removed by moderator), we have a  near (age removed by moderator) year old daughter who is my absolute world. My husband has always blown hot and cold, I would always tell people that 80% of the time he was fine and 20% he was vile. Over the years I think I have been conditioned to his behaviour and burried my head in the sand, holding on to all the times we were a “normal” family. We’ve had many happy memories too. However, following two horrendous weekends on the trot I confided in a friend who told me to google coercive control and emotional abuse. This I did and it was like an awakening moment for me. My husband is an emotional bully and he displays many of these traits and of coercive control. Ive never questioned our marriage before especially as i believe in the sanctity of marriage, my parents have been married (detail removed by moderator) years, my grandparents (detail removed by moderator) and my sister is divorced so I also wanted to be the one providing a secure home for our daughter. However, he gets aggravated and angry at the slightest little thing and always has, from road rage to my forgetting to turn the outside light on or replace a bottle of coke in the fridge or not liking a meal i’ve cooked. However, our main big bust ups have been over my family. This is when he goes into a major rage, he is intimidating and he will kick and punch things but has never harmed me or my daughter. However, you just cannot reason with him. He doesn’t let me get a word in edgeways and grinds me down so much that i find over the years i’ve just gone in on myself going quiet and not saying anything. I always feel like I’m walking on egg shells and never know what may set him off. He’ll sometimes get in my face, but never hits, he often punches other things, or walks off refusing to talk or threatens and says things not that he’ll hurt me that if he had somewhere to go he would that sort of thing. He’s a big man and his looks he gives me and body language he gives me are intimidating. He often clenches and flexes his hands into his fists on himself and takes deeps breaths. Rushing home from work if the traffics bad feeling i have to make excuses the list goes on and on. He’s an only child, parents deceased where as i’m very close to my parents and siblings. I think he resents this and over the years has constantly put my parents down and turned my own daughter against her grandparents as she has been subjected to hearing his views of them all the time. I try and defend them because it’s just simply not true, they have helped us out massively over the years which i’ll come onto in a moment but he is resentful for all the help they’ve given my sister. I’ve got too many years to cover all of the historical stuff and not much time to write so i’ll try and keep to the main points.  (detail removed by moderator) It’s constant jibes like that that go on. Yet to everyone else he’s lovely and charming etc all the usual patterns of behaviour that i’ve now spent the last two weeks reading up on. He has refused to visit my parents (detail removed by moderator), the other week which kicked all this off again was i asked him to come so that they didn’t start asking questions why they hadn’t seen him (always trying to protect him). He refused saying he would go when he was ready and i was to stop keeping on. (detail removed by moderator) He then proceeded to call me a F*****g C**t (sorry for the bad language) and pointed his finger at me while walking back to our car. He then said he wasn’t going to wait and he was going to drive off. I pleaded with him not to and asked him to do it for me. (detail removed by moderator) It was then awful when we got home, he wouldn’t talk to me about it or his feelings he never will. If i ask him to sit down even after an argument he never will open up and say how he feels or will never listen to how i feel despite knowing full well how close i am to them, he always says he’s below them in the pecking order or “WE” meaning him and my daughter which he says in front of her, again this ins’t true. Anyway, I’ve been reading up on emotional abuse i’m now trying to learn how to deal with it and what i can do. But here’s where the big mess comes in….
We’ve grown distant because of his behaviour and he won’t communicate with me. He’s self employed and has an irregular income. (detail removed by moderator) we got into debt (detail removed by moderator) What he forgets is that his business my dad set him up in and made an excellent living out of it, he’s retired now and given him his customers etc but my husband also has a problem with spending. He’ll buy whatever he wants, (detail removed by moderator) you name he’s got the kit for every hobby under the sun. I’ve always gone without just spending our money on the home, my daughter or my dog. We can’t budget easily because his cashflow is very unpredictable. So one Christmas i broke down and told my parents the extent of our debt (detail removed by moderator) They were amazing and we felt like a weight had been lifted (detail removed by moderator)They loaned us the rest to be paid back. We have never to this day paid it back and i feel so guilty. he just says he doesn’t feel guilty as they’ve given my sister so much!! (They really haven’t).  (detail removed by moderator)Fast forward to current day, I got made redundant (detail removed by moderator) and had massive drop in income, and because of this and all the others reasons already listed we are back in debt this time worse!!! (detail removed by moderator) i’m ashamed an embarrased. He controls the money, my money goes into the joint account and pays mortgage and household bills. All his money pays the credit card bills and loans. We are trapped in a cycle of robbing peter to pay paul, we’ve no saving and the interest rates are the cards are crippling. Whats worse he’s in denial. He keeps spending, drawing money from our mortgage even, (detail removed by moderator) The cards are mostly in my name because he’s arranged it this way so i feel trapped by the enormity of the debt also (detail removed by moderator)
He had a health scare (detail removed by moderator) but won’t return to the docs even though he’s not really well and is massively overweight. I think he’s also depressed and hitting the self destruct button but won’t face up to it and I’m sure the debt is getting to him, but i could just be making excuses for his behaviour.
(detail removed by moderator)He didn’t like the fact that i went but i went anyway but he always says i never stop you going anywhere. He doesn’t he just makes me feel guilty. I told mum everything and she knew all along but I can’t bring myself to tell them about the debt again. That would be the nail in the coffin and they’d make me leave him. I know i need to stop this but i still love him i think, but sometimes i hate him, i can’t go on living like this.
I’ve started to take steps to get back control. I’ve told close friends and family and I have support and somewhere to go. My dad has said i’ll always have a home and all they want is my and my daughters upmost happiness and that I deserve so much better than i have with him. But i’m too terrified to confess to the debt we have yet again. They’re pensions and could help but i don’t want to put them under that pressure. They’d hate him even more than they do already and i’ve got to think of my daughter. They feel he’s had all he wants from them the business etc and he’s just waiting for them to die to get the inheritance money. My dad even consulted a solicitor to see if he couldn’t get his hands on any inheritance but so long as were married he can.
So I’ve got the abuse, i’ve got huge debt that i can’t afford to pay on my own, he won’t leave and has no where to go, if i leave i risk giving up my home that i’ve worked hard for and invested money in.
The other and most important issue though is my  daughter. She (detail removed by moderator) suffers from anxiety as it is. I can’t risk anything to upset her. She’s such a daddy’s girl she can see no wrong in what he does to me, she doesn’t like it but thinks she says she can see both sides. I CANT RISK LOSING HER. SHE’S MY ONLY CHILD. She sides with her dad a lot because he’s manipulated her that way. She loves me i know but i fear if i left she’d stay with him. She’s pretty much said that if i chose to leave she’d stay with dad if he left me she’d stay with me. I tried to talk to her the other day and explain how unhappy i was and i wanted to try and change dads behaviour but if i ever felt we wren’t safe would she come with me. She basically said no, not if she didn’t feel unsafe she would see no reason to go. Despite her witnessing the abuse and the shouting and screaming outbursts.
I’m keeping a diary now of his behaviour, I’ve contacted womans aid helpline, and i’ve been put in touch with a local place to give me outreach support i’m just waiting on an appointment. I’ve made a GP appointment too.
Ultimately my wish would be to remain together, work on our issues and his anger management but i don’t know how we’d ever get to that position when he won’t talk or admit he has a problem, i’ve suggested counselling and i got shouted down. I’d love it if he’d go and we could work through our problems together and also find a way to get debt help. Although my mum says a leopard never changes his spots. I don’t want to do anything immediately because of my daughter and her school year but i accept theres never a good time. I swing between thinking we’ll be ok we can make it work and hating him and planning an escape but it’s my daughter that always holds me back, I simply cannot lose her but the lady on the phone today said she’s nearly 16 i may have to accept the fact that she may choose to live with him. So I’m taking baby steps trying to get things straight in my head and seeking professional advice. At the same time i’m feeling guilty for doing all this behind his back. He’d go mad if he knew what i’d been up to. If i get debt help and start trying to sort that out and if he finds out that will be wrong because i’ve told people and he likes the fact that we’ve still got credit available – i think that’s because he knows even though were nearly up to our limits if he needed to buy something he could if i entered into an IVA or something our credit would be screwed – he likes having that back up despite the fact were drawing in debt.
In my head when i think if i set up another home and start again my daughter is with me and whilst i wouldn’t stop them seeing each other as they have a mostly good relationship i fear if she was with him he’d manipulate her against me more. They’re always siding against me when they’re together but on our own we have a fabulous relationship. I feel very emotional and sick with knots in my stomach all the time. This has been a massive shock to me despite putting up with it for so many years, i know it has to change but i’m not sure whether thats leaving him or working it through. My family clearly hate him and he probably senses that now too. We are currently keeping up a pretence while i work through my feelings. What experiences do others have with financial abuse, and what experiences can you please help with regarding my daughter. She is my world, how much say would i get regarding her living with me or is it really at her age down to her preference. This thought terrifies me the most that I’ll just put up with it if it meant losing her.I’ve put up with it this long is another way i’m currently thinking too.
So sorry for such a long post just needed to get off my chest and feel have so many conflicting priorities and feelings i don’t know what to tackle first.

[KIP.]

Hello. You’ve done the best thing by contacting women’s aid. I would ring Rights for Women. They offer free legal advice. Running up debt in your name is a way of trapping you. Read ‘Living with the Dominator’ by Pat Craven. Your story is just like mine was. Even the insults they use are the same. I can tell you heads going nowhere. You might be able to get a non molestation order to have him removed from the home. Speak to Rights for Women about this. Can you get an agreement in place for the money your parents gave you both. Before you leave. Get him to agree to a legal repayment plan. That way if you have to split the value of the property then his half of the money owed to your parents can be offset. I can tell you he will never change. Your daughter is almost an adult. She could be going away to Uni soon. She will have to find her own way. You can just be there to offer her support x

[Ruby2shoes]

Thank you Kip. I’ll try and contact woman’s rights. I just feel so sick like I’m doing everything behind his back. I’m also scared that the moment I start involving professionals things will then spiral and escalate. I want help but I’m so worried about my daughter (detail removed by moderator) the enormity I’d the pressure she’s under with that alone makes me want to ensure she’s not destabilised. I have to put her first. How does a moleststionnorder work what evidence is needed? I also worry about removing him form the home as he’s no where to go and his business is ran from our home. If he doesn’t earn from that he could walk away and leave me with all the horrendous debts. I’ve could do that in any case I realise if he chose to just stop paying.
I feel so wretched and drained and trying to work and maintain normality is hard too. (detail removed by moderator) But why can’t he see he’s not apologised or discussed his bebbehaviour so he’s not addressed anything at all. He just gone back to “normal” whatever that is.
How did you get out of your situation you say you were in a similar boat would you mind sharing your experiences? I’m also seeing my parents (detail removed by moderator)once I’ve finished work. I’ve not seen them since my heart to heart with Mum and my lovely dad sent me an emotional message. I want to be honest but can’t tell them yet too much or aboutnthe debt. They’re meant to be coming to our house for Christmas for the first time ever and I’ve got to ask them to keep up appearances it’s all si much going on I just don’t know what to say to them. (detail removed by moderator). Never a good time but it’s seeiosuly a bad time. I’ve also got to try and stop him spending more money. It won’t be long before he’ll stsrt on about a new kitchen or a new car or some other ridiculous thing we can’t afford he’s so delusional.

[Lisa]

Hi Ruby2shoes,

Thank you for your posts and welcome to the forum. I have sent you a private message showing you some support and to let you know that I have had to edit your posts as you are including some identifying detail that could make you unsafe on a public forum so please so be careful.

I am so sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds really stressful and you and your daughter deserve to live a happy and stress free life. I do understand that the dept makes things a bit more complicated and also your daughters schooling but as you say the timing is never perfect and all the other things you mention which I have edited will still go on and you can still attend and have a lovely time without worrying that he is going to ruin them for you. The value of your house outpays your debts (once again sadly I had to remove this identifying detail) so even if you payed of all the depts there would still be money left over for you to start rebuilding your life.

The National Dept line would be able to advise you https://www.nationaldebtline.org/ they are a national charity so not out to profit from your dept and they should recognize dept as a method of coercive control and domestic abuse. Please also try to find a safe time to phone the helpline, they will not tell you what to do but they may help you to see your options.

Please try those organisations and let us know how you get on. We are all here for you.

Best wishes,

Lisa
Forum Moderator

[Confused123]

Hi HUn

OMG are these men so similar or what, where they get their insecurities from is beyond me . Well done for trying to call the helpline, im sure they will be able to guide u further, its horrible how they manuiplate the children too, oi think thats the most heartbreaaking bit when the chidlren refuse to leave with u , i know i struggle to leave myself, and by the time i was brave enough, one of my child dint want to leave, it took what felt like forever to get him to agree, and in end he only came as his dad said i dont want u either which crush him. Best thing i can advice is u to see where u stand legally in terms of rights, sadly i think oncce a child reaches 12 or 14 they can decide for themselves unless they are at risk, keep posting on here whenevezr u need to and well doen fro recognising the abuse

[Ruby2shoes]

Thank you it’s so hard isn’t it. I was crying driving to work yesterday morning thinking about he possibility of losing her. She is of an age to make up her mind but she’s my baby why should I lose her at the hands of what’s he’s done to me?
One small positive last night he said something about doing something that would make me happy (in relation to what we’ve recently argued over) and he said because you’ve been miserable all week. I said no I’m miserable because I don’t like how you speak to me and I’m not going to put up with it anymore. It wasn’t the big heart to heart to say how I really feel as I really didn’t wanna another awful reaction but I feel I’m finally finding my inner voice a little to start pushing back against him.
The debt is still another matter entirely that’s going to take a lot of unpicking.

[White Rose]

Hello Ruby2shoes
You’ve done the right thing getting in touch with WA.
You’re life isn’t great – I know exactly how you feel. I read your post and thought someone had found my first post from a few years ago and adjusted it slightly! My ex was scaringly similar in his emotional abuse of me. He too was financially abusive but squirrelled the money away rather than racking up debts.
You sound worried about the debt – one small practical thing you could do is cut up the credit cards in your name and ask that theyre not reissued until you ask. That way you dont risk escalating the debt, and citizens advice are also good for debt advice.
Your parents have got your back – your dad sounds a star!
I can’t imagine how you feel about possibility that your daughter would be staying with him but there are ladies on here who have experience of that who I’m sure will support you and give you practical ideas too.
I’m glad you’ve got a GP appointment, don’t let yuur husband try to insinuate your feelings/stress/mood is “all down to your age” – it’s his behaviour not you!
Don’t get into the pattern of blaming yourself. It’s not your fault.
Keep posting xxxx

[Ruby2shoes]

Thank you my dad is a star he’s the most amazing man he says I deserve better. I saw my parents yesterday with husband in tow and I had to text ahead to ask them to be nice. It’s so hard. I’m seeing them on my own tomorrow and whilst I’m so glad of their support I’m afraid to tell them everything. I need more time. I’m still getting my own head around how I feel. I read all the stuff about what emotional abuse is and I think yep that’s him. But the. He’s ok and I doubt myself is this normal? Does anyone have experience of actually showing their partners a list of their abusive traits as I genuinely think he doesn’t realise he may do on a sub conscious level but I wonder if I showed him he would be appalled I was feeling this way. Maybe I’m deluded. Anyone done this?

[KIP.]

Google the cycle of abuse. It’s useless confronting an abuser. They twist everything leaving you feeling confused and guilty. They play terrible mind games. Look up Gaslighting. I wish I’d told my family sooner. They were so very supportive and it felt great to get it off my chest. In some ways they weren’t surprised. They helped me to see the reality of the situation. When we are trapped in the FOG of abuse (fear, obligation and guilt), we are just not thinking straight. Best thing to do is get in touch with your local women’s aid x

[Ruby2shoes]

Thanks KIP. My mind is all over the place. This morning I tackled a little bit of our money concerns not in great details as i wasn’t up to it emotionally but to the point where i was trying to stop him spending more and advised how worried i was about what we owe. The whole discussion made me feel like i was about to have a panic attack (not that i’ve ever had one but breathless, heart racing etc). Then within an hour we were doing some household jobs together that needed doing and working as a team. It’s just so weird. Then a conversation with our daughter about something in our lives that provoked another emotion memory. My situation is very complex but it doesn’t help when i feel like this. I’ve spoken to the helpline and am just waiting for an outreach appointment and my GP appointment. I go from feeling strong to weak and thinking if he had any idea what i was up to he’d be mortified…as you say I’m feeling guilty. I just can’t help thinking that I’ve never really stood up to him before because of his behaviours I’ve been frightened to but i keep hoping that armed with the right advice and knowing that i am now being abused i will feel stronger to tackle him on his behaviour. BUT i’m torn because i think lets give it a shot and address the issues together surely our marriage deserves that to know that I tried everything before making the decision to walk away and then in the next breath i’m reading all this stuff which suggests he’ll never change. What a rollercoaster of emotions.

[Author]

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