20th July 2020 at 9:05 pm #110576
I hope your all ok and thank you all so much for your help and replies so far. Really does mean a lot.
I just thought I’d ask your opinion on a few things that happened lately to see if they are indeed covert emotinal abuse. As you know from orevious posts i want to leave but tied up financially and its ever so hard. Because of this and love bombing my mind is all over the place I know for a fact I’ve been brain washed and maybe trauma bonded but just need to know if these little things are right or wrong.
Recently was having a discussion about something and he stopped talking said i wouldn’t understand when i asked what do you mean ? He said I wouldn’t as it was complicated. Meaning it’s too hard for me to understand. I’m an intelligent person well I did well at school and he often says things like this that make me feel like i don’t have brain?
Another thing he has a son who lives across the other side of the country hes been having issues with the ex regarding seeing him etc. We were sat on the sofa one night and i asked him about the situation and why didn’t he let me know whats happening as I am his wife and would like to know his reply was because im nosy. When I asked what he meant by this he said its not because im concerned just nosy.
During discussions or heated conversations he often calls me narrow minded, says im not in touch with reality , or says I’m nagging.
With regards to money we dont have a joint account as was advised not to so we have separate accounts i get paid less than him yet i tend to buy the food for the house or bits i need. Not that I want it as ive always been independent or maybe just think this is normal but he never says here you are heres so money to get the new curtains or get some food etc. I don’t know anything about his accounts, where they are how much he has and he diesnt tell me is this normal in a marriage? I really don’t know what is normal.
Also some days I will be freezing i get cold easily yet he demands the windows to be open, if i close them he says houses shouldn’t have the windows closed its unhealthy. So practically all windows are open.
I’m not allowed to do anything regarding diy or decorating. I was so enthusiastic when we moved in as its a reno job and I like interior design. When u say im going to do this or that irs always no or a laugh in my face or horrible look and why do you want to do that? Its nothing wrong as it is. Im basically living in a wreck.
I just feel so messed up i have good days and bad says. Days where I want to tell him its over then u cave and im too scared too I just don’t know how I ended up in this situation. I keep reminding myself of the beginning a decade ago when he was physical and did hurt me i keep thinking of those times to bring my mind back to reality but I just don’t feel strong enough:(
20th July 2020 at 9:46 pm #110578CamelParticipant
I hope you’re OK.
Sorry I can’t remember what the financial ties are. But can I say how fantastic it is that you have kept hold of your own income. OK, it’s less than he earns but he doesn’t have access to it. This is a strong position to start from.
How you spend your money is your business. Full stop. So how about revising what food you buy and cutting the bill? Stop buying things for the house too. You’re not allowed to have an opinion anyway so what’s the point? Put the little savings in a new account – your secret fund for setting up on your own. If your finances are tangled get advice – maybe Citizen’s Advice or an accountant could be a start?
As for him writing you off as too thick to process basic information – don’t engage. Stop asking him anything beyond the basics (tea or coffee?) If he starts a discussion stay non-committal. Hmm. Yeah. I see. Oh right. If he corners you for a comment reply ‘I don’t know, what do you think?’
Don’t involve yourself in his other family. Your opinion doesn’t count and besides, that’s for his ex to deal with, poor woman.
Stay strong x
20th July 2020 at 10:12 pm #110579
Financially tied with regards to the home, as I would need to buy him out or put house up for sale which I dont really want to do.
Even though I have my own income I have barely anything left by the middle of the month and I’ve been known to live off noodles and water as I couldn’t afford to buy food yet he spends as he likes. That’s what I didnt think was right.
With regards to saving I have been putting money by each month into a secret savings account its adding up, this money will be for any solicitors when the time comes so I’m not stuck.
At the moment its just so hard as I feel like I’m moaning about the situation coming on here getting great advice then doing nothing about it 🙁 it’s like i feel if I’m not going to do anything about it yet i shouldn’t be moaning. I want to really i do I just dont feel strong enough the thought of going through solicitors and telling him I want a divorce just scares me so much, I know it sounds so silly. Im just so scared that I just stay in an unhappy situation. Im a dead loss 🙁
20th July 2020 at 11:21 pm #110581LifebeginsParticipant
Hi beautifulday, you have to do things at the pace that’s right for you. You’re planning, you’re educating yourself and you’re on here sharing and getting the support you need.
like you, I could never imagine taking the step to leave. I had just started to do all of the above what you’re doing and boom, a situation happened that crossed my red line and I got out. I still can’t believe I did it! Luckily I’d found this forum a little while before that and it was a great source of support and advice for me when I didn’t really have a clue what to do.
My advice to you, for what it’s worth, is to keep doing what you’re doing. You know now what type of relationship you’re in – that knowledge is not going away. And the more you learn about abusive relationships the less you’re going to like what you see in him. Keep putting cash away. This definitely puts you in a stronger position when you do leave him to not have to go back. And keep coming on here for advice and support. Your day will come.
BTW, you made me laugh about the decorating. I used to love decorating and doing up my house before I met him but being the drain he is, he sucked all the pleasure out of it when we got a new house, I just couldn’t be bothered. I was just thinking today it could be time for a paint job. Getting my mojo back ladies ….😄😀😀
20th July 2020 at 11:45 pm #110583HeadspinningParticipant
You are not a dead loss and you will find your strength when the time is right. I felt like you and when the final ending came for me it was unexpected, not planned, it just happened.
Regarding your other points, it sounds like you are at the “devaluation” stage. He doesn’t value your opinion on his sons situation. He doesn’t value your skills or ability to do the diy. You being cold isn’t as important as his desire to ventilate the house because you are just not important enough. You are just there, the cause of everything that goes wrong (even when you have nothing to do with what goes wrong!!)
It’s hard because during love bombing you can do no wrong, so how vibe you are so devalued now? You haven’t changed – his opinion of your value has changed. It’s like shiny new toy syndrome – you are not a shiny new toy any more do you just don’t matter. Hey he isn’t going to throw you away – you serve a very good purpose to him by providing food, maybe meeting his physical needs and being a scapegoat to blame the wrongs of the world in. But you are not important enough to actually warrant an opinion – how dare you even think it!!!
Look my answer is tongue in cheek because these guys are just so ridiculous. They are walking cliches of what the books tell us they will do.
He is not worthy of your opinion! You keep reading and educating yourself. rediscover your your worth. If you want to paint then paint!! But equally, a lot to be said for saving your pennies, getting rid of him, then painting when he is gone – music blasting and new memories of happy times being made!!!
21st July 2020 at 7:09 am #110591
@lifebegins @headspinning thank you so much for your replies youve made me feel much more positive this morning. I really do hope that one day my line will be crossed and ill just have that moment of clarity and do it. Its so wierd because I’ve always made boundaries but whenever they were crossed he’d then be all nice to suck me back in and on thr cycle goes 🙁
With regards to his son it did hurt me as ive akways been lovely to his son he is only young if bought him gifts for birthday Christmas, ive mafe a huge effort when he has come to stay then to say im nosy just really hurt me.
Another thing he’s been doing lately is also having small digs at my family , i love my family they are brilliant and my mother really brought me up well. When I got with my husband she treated him like her own son welcomed him into the family, clearly looked out for us. But ive noticed since ive been telling my mother little things about what has been happening i haven’t told her the full extent, she like any mother would do hss told me its not healthy, she only wants the best for me so I think he can sense a change in her? Even though I think shes acting the same . And because of this recently hes been having small digs at my mothrt or family putting them down which really hurts me as my Mother has been good to him very good to him.
When I ask why he says those things he Denys it or says im overacting.
Hes gone to work now and again every window upstairs open to “air the house” and im freezing as i dont have a dressing gown. He always seems to fo it before i get up so when i do get up its cold, and not just in summer he does it in winter too 🙁
I think you right I need to keep educating myself, keep reading , keep saving and take each day as it comes. Im just this type of person who puts things off because of occassions to i think oh cant go now its Christmas or his birthday or our anniversary.. its so hard
21st July 2020 at 7:55 am #110593HeadspinningParticipant
It’s very hard. No one else can tell you when to go because you are the one who has to put on her shoes and do it. But you are building a support network in your mum and us and you are getting stronger.
Maybe another way to look at it is to think – how many more birthdays or Christmas’s am I willing to let him ruin for me? What percentage of my remaining life am I willing to give away to him? If I visualise my life without him what does it start to look like? And to what extent am I willing to go through a challenging period of change to get there?
The comments he makes about your mum – that’s all about divide and conquer. He wants to isolate you from anyone who may give you support. My dad was always very supportive of my ex to the point he persuaded me to give it another go at a previous break point. My ex knew he was a supporter and played on it. And they genuinely got on really well. That was until my dad witnessed some of his behaviour to me first hand. My dad didn’t like it – my dad quickly became public enemy number one. It really opened my eyes to exactly how calculating these guys can be – I would never have thought my ex would have wanted to look bad in front of my dad and I thought he genuinely liked him. But once my dad was no longer useful as a flying monkey he was then seen as an enemy. Crazy.
Go close those windows! Cut back on the food bill this month – give him beans and toasty- and buy yourself a dressing gown too!!!! A big fluffy one!!!
21st July 2020 at 10:21 am #110600
@headspinning what you said about your Dad that is EXACTLY what is happening with my Mum.
She loved my husband and thouggt he was the besr person for me, ive started telling her things maybe for the past year and I think she can see ive lost weight, im anxious not myself then. Ive told her bits and she was annoyed asked if I wanted to put up with that for the rest of my life and I think she changed opinion if him , but during family meals etc she still acted the same around him not to let on that i had told her anything. There was one time then where she witnessed herself him acting not very nice to me and she did say something to him, since then he’s said sone very nasty comments about her and my family who have all been amazing to him, bailed him out twice on his debts! Bought lovely gifts always doing for us. So this was very huttful to me. And now when I sometimes get upset and leave the house to get space he says to me go on go and cry to mammy. This really upsets me. So I know for definite he thinks I’m talking to her about things.
With regards to the window I did indeed shut it! He gets up at (detail removed by Moderator) for work and even though i don’t have to get up that early ge makes a point of coming in the bedroom opening the blinds , the window being loud talking to me on purpose to wake me then I’m wide awake and its so early. So I’m usually up around (detail removed by Moderator) every morning even though i don’t need to be. But in the opposite on the weekebd when its his days off I have to tip toe around not be loud , allow him to sleep in, or he’s in a foul mood.
21st July 2020 at 3:28 pm #110617AnonymousInactive
Oh yes indeed, I remember…..the whole thing of you’re just here as an appendage of me and nothing more. Your every thought, twist or turn, action, reaction has to be “about me” or what good are ya? All that codependent garbage, you need to think of me, me, me before yourself and if you don’t think of yourself at all, all the better! Vomit. All the time we think we’re loving them by doing all this and yet, it’s really more about survival because everything is fear based. Fear he’ll be upset, have a mood, say something mean, make us pay in some other way so it’s all about fear. That’s not love….
So we learn to live in fear, eat it like it’s good energy, wear it like it makes us feel good when in reality it’s slowly poisoning us. The whole charming thing too, of family or friends is all about control and making them feel more powerful but of course if someone sees his real nature and the mask slips then they off them and in a very nasty way. Wee little men, aren’t they? If their ego is sooo fragile then it’s plain to see there is no strong man there, of character, honor, integrity or courage. It’s just the bully coward at play, stomping around, ordering everyone about with his crooked little crown on his head and stick in his hand. No loving relationship here, it’s a tyranny.
I don’t know why we love all that…. seems odd, doesn’t it? So what’s to love? I can only think that at it’s core is a belief that says we deserve it? Crumbs for us are good enough and all that? But one thing I think we miss is their fear. They love to generate it in us but moreover they are fearful. Of what? Good question. Not sure I care to know to be honest but one thought is – they are afraid of something genuine because they can’t seem to muster that one up and keep it up because it is not a real quality of theirs. They can fake it but they can’t create it. Faking takes work, they hate work.
So in all reality here they look at empathetic people like you, like your family members and just really loathe you because you can do and be what they can’t do and be. It’s a jealousy thing, deep envy and it’s ugly when directed at someone. You keep feeling it, getting it day and after day wondering, what in the world did I do to deserve that one?? It’s not about that. It’s because you remind their self centered ego that they are lacking and they have to fake something in order to even come close to what you have naturally going on with little effort at all! I think they know something is missing in them, I really do.
I’ve had people tell me when I’d discover or wake up to their own evil directed at me at me and I’d ask them – why in the world would you do this to me?? I’ve been nothing but nice to you! One of them said, very early on in my life that – I don’t know….I just, I, you have something I don’t. I’m like seriously? You’ve got everything going on for you and I have very little sooo, not sure what you mean there. They said – there’s just something about you…… And this person went to great lengths to hurt me, had this little plan to do so and I foiled it for them. Figured it all out. They purposely wanted to hurt me and it was absolute jealousy that was behind it.
I remember walking into a place early on as well and started working there. Big corporation and a very feisty little italian woman walked up and introduced herself. She was very pretty, lovely personality but she was saavy and she said – just want you to know you shouldn’t trust any of these women around here and be careful of the men as well. I’m like okkkkaayyyy, what did I do? She said – nothing. You walked in the door and I see who you are but they will come for you so be on your guard. She smiled and said, nice meeting you and if you need anything let me know. She was right……..omg was she right. Many stories about how right she was.
I did very well in my work and I kept my distance and realized I had to just stay true to being my own person and to be very picky about who I brought in close to me. I am a leader and I do my best work without becoming part of a clique. Not my thing. That kinda ticked everyone right off because I wouldn’t but oh well and oh darn. Not my way. I got accused of sleeping my way to the top as well which was a real hoot. And no, I didn’t. I had alot of male friends but we weren’t bumping buddies. I worked with that lady later actually and she was great. Became a really good friend but she had to fight for everything. She was smart, had a bit of a temper when needed and let no one walk on her. I admired her quite a bit.
So all that to say when people have voids in their own life or their light doesn’t burn as brightly as yours does or they just don’t have a light at all like people without a conscience then yes, they will come for you. You p**s them right off just because you exist. Nothing more. If we bow to them, they just keep kicking us and think it grand that they can harness all that wonderful light and energy for themselves! Makes them feel all woo-woo and look what I can do! See how powerful I am?? Blech. Noooo, actually all I see is how miserable and warped and weak a person like that is. Nothing for me to admire there.
And your light can’t fix them. You want to, you believe it could or that you should but it’s not possible and neither is it your responsibility to do so. Your responsibility is to yourself and to your children if you have any. They need to be responsible in how they treat other people and if not, then yes, at some point you really do have to get away from them because they are soooo very toxic. Hold your head up ladies and embrace the wonderful you that you are, keep reading, getting strong and then walk away with no regrets whatsoever.
21st July 2020 at 4:27 pm #110624AnonymousInactive
The other little thing worth mentioning is – once we really really acknowledge the precious light that we really do have then comes the responsibility of that instrument in us. It’s like having a fine stradivarius violin. You absolutely cannot have a violin like that without a very very fine case. And that case has to protect the violin against weather, against vibration because the violin is sooo finely made and finely tuned so the first little upset with it can damage it greatly.
The problem with this is – we have to know and realize that we do have that kind of instrumentation and light in our being. If we don’t, then we see it as unworthy of any value at all and needs no good boundaries or a good protective case and what’s all the trouble about anyways. I am only worth what he says I’m worth. We have to up the worth of ourselves because I can promise you that while in abuse your worth is on the floor and every time you bring it up, he will squash it down. For you to even imagine that it actually is what it truly is would just make you run and hide because you don’t see yourself that way and no, no, I can’t be worth that much, omg!! But you are……….you are. And your bully abuser knows it…….
21st July 2020 at 6:18 pm #110634
Thank you so much for your reply ! It really hit a nerve with me. I completely agree with you that these men are jealous of us, jealous of our good nature and compassion and the radiance we give off. I remember a few times where I would be chatty and happy to a male not in a flirty way but where I come from we are all known to be very friendly and talk to anyone, my Husband isn’t from where I live and on a few of these occaasions afterwards he would say I was flirting or trying to chat him up i was like what???
The most recent was when we stayed in a (detail removed by Moderator) and the owner who was in his (detail removed by Moderator) on check in i was chatting happily including my husband in the chat saying we were looking foreard to the stay just general chit chat to be nice as that’s the sort of person I am, (detail removed by Moderator) the owner came to talk to us both asked me where we were going that day just being a nuce host. Later (detail removed by Moderator) he completely changed!!! Said i was a s**t said i was chatting him up and flirting he stormed out (detail removed by Moderator)l i stupidly followed after him like some lost sheep, begging and pleading asking what i had done wrong the whole time he kept walking off calling me a s**g a tart said he didn’t want to marry someone like that, all while people were walking past and it was making a scene. In hindsight I wish I had just said you know what balls to you! Walked ofx grabbed my stuff and left as if it happened now i would have. But I apologised!!!! I hadn’t even done anything wrong just was being a nice happy person. And after that I dont talk and make conversation to males anymore when hes with me even if they are someone I know well as I fear hell take it the wrong way its so so stupid talking about it makes me kick myself why I ran after him pleading and begging 🙁 I wish had left him there and then and never would have married him.
They defintely are jealous and I see that now.
I am taking baby steps, my mind has been so messed up i suffer with extreme anxiety , and my health has suffered im trying to get my confidence and strength back and educate myself with hopes ill find the strength to leave. Its just all the thought of how I do it thats scaring me. I would walk straight out the door with a suitcase but I yhink why should i leave? And if i did know it then he would stay in the home nice as pie why should he get it? All the ins and outs of how i go about it scare me and put me off:( I thought about saying I want a divorce but then the thought of living with him while it all goes through just makes me so anxious and upset. I’m the sort of person who just needs no contact i wouldn’t want to see him or hear from him but I know this is impossible!
21st July 2020 at 7:30 pm #110643Wants To HelpParticipant
There will never be a ‘right’ time to leave this man. The only thing you need to find right now is the ‘will’ to leave him. If you’re waiting for your anxiety to improve, your health to improve in order to feel stronger to leave then you will be waiting for ever. Your anxiety and health is not good because of the situation you are living in. All of this will improve once you have left, your confidence will grow, your self esteem and self worth will come back.
Forgive me if I offend with my next comments, but I see so many people in society prevent themselves from moving on in life because of the “why should I?” attitude. I call these people the Why Should I Brigade! Our pride and stubbornness often holds us back from doing what is right for us. I’ve seen so many couples continue to live in absolute misery because neither party are prepared to move out and let the other one ‘win’. In this situation, who is really winning?
In an ideal world, why should we lock our doors and windows when we leave the house? We shouldn’t, but we accept that we will because the risk of being burgled is likely and we don’t want to make it easy for burglars to get in and steal our stuff, so we lock the house up when we leave. Why should women avoid dark alleyways and isolated places? But we do, because the risk of being a lone woman and subjected to a robbery or sexual attack by a waiting predator is not a risk we want to take. These are just some examples of things we accept we do when we shouldn’t have to.
The home you are in is not a happy home at present. If you leave, he may be able to stay in it for a little while, but unless he can afford to buy you out, he may have to leave it too as it may have to be sold. Or, you could get the right to live in it without him. Trying to live together through a divorce with an abuser is never going to work, so don’t even consider that as an option, it will be hell. I’ve literally gone to couples who are divorcing whilst under the same roof who wear permanent body cameras when at home to record the other party at all times ‘to protect themselves and for any evidence of abuse’. Both then complain their privacy is being invaded – but neither will move out, because “why should they?”
Sometimes in life, we have to weigh up what is really important to us and take the rest on the chin. A nice home can be recreated in another property. Items can be replaced. Our Mental and Physical Health is not so easy to get back or build up. We could live in a palace, but if our health isn’t up to much, then our surroundings don’t really make up for that do they?
21st July 2020 at 9:09 pm #110667
Thanks for your reply , I completely get you I really do. If the home was in both our names I would just walk out but its only in my name as he had a bad credit history but he paid tge deposit . If i were to walk out I would still have to pay my opart of the mortgage and bills for a home i wouldn’t be living in whilst he got to stay there, then I would still need to be in touch with him as he pays his part into an account in my name so would need to keep in touch to make sure he was paying his part, he’s been know to give money late or not at all! So this would be just as bad as living together. The only option is to buy him out or sell the house which I dont really want to do at this point.
The thing that I find overwhelming is going to the solicitor that first step, then with regards to divorce didnt know if people divorce then leave or leave then divorce? Its just soo confusing and overwhelming, wish I had never got myself into this mess.
21st July 2020 at 10:16 pm #110688AnonymousInactive
Just take the plunge, Jump in! I remember when I had all the financial stress from one guy and all that, was afraid to do this, afraid to do that and then I’m like okay then……..just dumping it all on the table here and seeing what’s what? I went to a financial advisor, got my bills consolidated, some interest was even forgiven, got a payment I could do once a month and that was that. But nothing ever gets better going round in circles. It gets worse. It goes one way or the other way. So you might as well bite the bullet here, go to a solicitor and get it sorted or see what’s what, what your rights are, your options. Like my sensei used to say to me in martial arts class, can’t never could do anything. All this fear just promotes more fear. Write down what you want to know, go to someone who can tell you that and get this ball rolling here! Hiding and fretting won’t do anything for you except make you more stressed out.
21st July 2020 at 10:39 pm #110691TurtledoveParticipant
Hi Beautiful day, just came across your post and want you to know you’re not alone on this. My abuser is the same as this. My abuser suggested getting a new sofa and said he’d buy one, then he said actually we would go halves, but I ended up paying for it! The whole time we have lived together he has brought nothing new for the house. I’ve had to buy it all myself. He says it’s a waste yet he’ll be out every weekend using drugs and drinking and gambling serious amounts of money. It’s very frustrating isn’t it!
And my abuser used to say I was nagging etc. Even trying to have a basic conversation with him would end up with him being rude. If only they showed us this race before we married /had kids /lived with them. Xx
21st July 2020 at 11:44 pm #110698ChestnutParticipant
Hi Beautifulday, I think the stage you are at is very difficult. It took me years to work out what was going on, months of being upset, then angry then accepting, then upset and round and round I went. I read and I read, I posted on here to see if I was going mad, I got upset again and angry again. Then I told a friend, my close family and another close friend, I let the cat out of the bag because for me I knew once I said what had really been happening they would help me stay sane and offer me a safe place if I need it. I know not everyone has this but if you do and you feel ready I found this a really important step before I ended the relationship. It helped me deal with using grey rock which I had read up on and then while doing this it enabled me to gain more control over the situation and how I felt. I had no intention of splitting up during lockdown as I was terrified. I think said in another post very similar situation in that I am paying for everything so can’t go. I wanted to be able to end the relationship and run away but I thought about it (as I was not in immediate danger) about got my support in place and then I realised I just couldn’t do it anymore. I was waiting for a big incident to give me a clear reason. It actually happened on a non eventful day and I just realised I was no longer the person I was, I was scared, anxious, nervous and I wanted my life back. It was and is horrible, I don’t recommend it as the first option! But for me as in my head I am not in a relationship anymore even though in the same house I find I can look at the manipulation etc with more open eyes!! I know it still impacts me as do the many many years we have been together but I see it! Our house is now going on the market, I know I will unlikely get anywhere nearly as nice but you know it never really felt like mine anyway, I couldn’t do anything to it and actually you know what I am getting a little bit excited about the future!!! No one can tell you what to do and risk can be different for different people, there was no physical abuse..well if I unpick it there was but it was hugely psychological once I put my ducks in a row the time just came and I am sure this will happen for you too. X
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