So confused, sad and anxious

[Cloudyskys]

Hi Everyone, I’m a newbie here and really struggling with my thoughts on the very common question Is it abuse?

I’ve been with my husband for a long time and have a family with him. It occurred to me recently that he may be abusing me because of a seed planted by a friend.
Basically on many occasions I’ve pulled him up on putting me down and grinding me down. Each time he’s said he’s not, he’s just joking or it’s sarcasm but it really gets me down. This is continuous! I’m also asking the classic Am I too sensitive?

He completely rules the roost in our house, I’m a sahm so have no income and rely on his credit card. I feel I have to ask for permission to buy a lot of things. Generally he’ll let me have most things but I hate asking. I don’t have a say in anything in the house, decor, furniture etc so I’ve given up or have to make sure he’s confirmed it’s ok. I run everything by him and I’m starting to wonder if it’s fear, my low self esteem or just a normal relationship. I can’t make decisions on my own anymore in all walks of life because I’m scared of getting it wrong. His temper scares me and he throws things. He gets angry in front of the children and puts me down in front of them too.
He’s definitely controlling but I’m wondering if I’m to blame because I let him do it.
I’m so confused because he’s so lovely most of the time and I’d definitely say he’s my rock. Is it abuse? What is going on?

Thanks everyone xx

[KIP.]

Hi there, sadly it is abuse and it is very typical. Everything you describe I went through in an abusive relationship. Talk to your local women’s aid. Read Living with the Dominator by Pat Craven. No one should ever ever be scared of their partner. Huge red flags. You are not to blame for his behaviour. He chooses to behave this was. He puts you down as a way to destroy your self esteem and your confidence. You’ve even given up because you know you can’t win with him so you’ve lost yourself and become a non person just like I did. My world became smaller and smaller. My ex also would insult me then say I was too sensitive or I couldn’t take a joke. It’s just another way to destroy your self esteem. Ring the national domestic abuse helpline and have a chat with the wonderful ladies there. It’s shocking to admit you’re being abused by someone you love and is supposed to love you back. He’s not your rock. He pushes you off a cliff then rescues you. Total brain wash x

[Watersprite]

You are here and asking the question because I think you know the answer but none of us want to see it. I didn’t either and it was only after we left the effect on my family became clear. I hope you are able to reach out for support. You are not to blame cloudyskys ☀️

[Lottieblue]

Hello Cloudyskys

It’s really good to see you here.
Your situation sounds very, very like mine, even the financial element. I came on here at the end of last year, and I got empathy, sympathy, love, understanding and some real wisdom.

I am still in my marriage and I am miserable. I can say all the things you have said. I, also, have just given up standing up for myself because what’s the point. It just makes him mean and angry.

The progress I have made, however, is that I have gained strength, and I will leave, and I know I want to, and I know I won’t come back. However, it’s not going to be easy. It is going to be a leap off a cliff. But, with the support and advice of the amazing people on here, I have educated myself – I have consulted a lawyer so that I know my position (not great, but essentially he can’t scare me with untruths because I know the truth) and I have spoken with my local Women’s Aid. I have also started, recently, with some counselling, in order to help build my strength up
to leave. I’ve been married a long time.

There are two other books I have found really helpful: Why Does he Do That? by Lundy Bancroft and Healing from Hidden Abuse by Shannon Thomas. Read and re-read. Educate yourself. Build your strength. Learn and believe that it isn’t you. It’s him. It’s not easy. But it’s a fact.

Have a good read around the forum. There are a lot of threads that won’t bear much resemblance to yours, but there will be many, and particularly their responses, that do.

Keep coming back. This wonderful community will guide you through all your thoughts and questions with endless patience, compassion and honesty.

LB x

[SeekingPeace]

Hi cloudyskys

I’m sure you’ll find this forum helpful. Glad you’ve come on here.

I second reading Lundy Bancroft’s book Why Does He Do That. I devoured that book and had so many penny dropping moments reading it. It cleared up the cloud of confusion I was under for so long in my relationship with my husband. After I read it, I initiated separation from him, in that I asked him to move out the family home and told him I’d only ever consider us reuniting under one roof if our marriage became abuse free. That was almost (detail removed by moderator) years ago. Sadly he did not change despite his promises and I’ve recently confirmed to him our marriage is over.

Other books I found very helpful reads were by Patricia Evans. She’s written a few books on the topic including The Verbally Abusive Relationship.

After all my reading, I found out about The Freedom Programme by Pat Craven. I was able to attend a locally run one at the start of the year and this continued via zoom meetings online during lockdown. If you’re interested there are various freedom programmes running across the country via zoom currently.
It was whilst I was doing the freedom programme that I made my decision to end my marriage. I have very young children and I could see my husband wasn’t changing and there was a sense of urgency in getting out before his abuse started to cause real damage to them as well as further damage to me.

As well as this, coming on this forum and reading other women’s’ posts has been a huge help to me.

The combination of these things really helped me understand the tactics an abuser uses to keep his victim in the relationship. I could see him for who he truly was and there was no going back. I was compelled to get out!

[Featheredge]

Hi seeking peace, you mentioned abuse affecting your children. Do you mind me asking what? I think I have been blinded by stuff and despite being an intelligent person I struggle to see things. I have been referred to the freedom programme but there has been no meetings, I’m not sure the freedom Programme is right for me anyway. I read a book all about it, in two sittings loaned to me by a counsellor. Yes I could relate to some aspects but I think that’s in most men some parts. And I know I defend him, I do as this is my husband and partner of thirty decades! So I am interested to hear about how you consider it affected your children please. Many thanks

[Featheredge]

I’m in the same boat as you. I am new here. I was married for a long time with a family too and a friend also made comments about the way I was treated and now I feel like I’ve let him down by believing he was this ‘abuser’ when actually he loved me more than anything just didn’t always act like it. He spent a lot of time doing his things, pub several times a week, not always late while I worked and looked after the family. He would also not put me down as such, although fiends would disagree, so am I used to it, but he would say don’t wear that I don’t like it or where that you know I think you look fit in that, then say I was the most beautiful person and I know he believed that.
However I have now left and several months later he is still devastated still wants me back and still says come home and I know he is so hurt but when he treated me not nice I never hurt that much, u happy but not hurting so it seems what I have done is so much worse. I am debating do I go back but SO much has happened during this time. But every time I see him he cries or is sick at the thought of not being with me. However I question every decision now and I do not know if I have made the right one. I just know he took me for granted, served me scraps of his time and I wasn’t happy for different reasons but it wasn’t all bad, we had some good times too and now out of it it’s sometimes hard to see the bad as overshadowed by the happy memories. And yet when I was there it was the opposite. I feel like I am losing my mind and if anyone ever asked I would always say just stay, put up and stay as it’s the hardest thing I have ever done. He is hurting so much and this is all because of my decision. It’s awful. I would love to message or have support from anyone in the group please as right now I am struggling despite having counselling and being referred to a programme I do wonder my partner was not an abuser just a man who didn’t quite treat me right and surely there is a bit of that in every relationship. There is no such thing as a perfect relationship ever is there?!

[Lottieblue]

Hi @Featheredge,

I know you can’t give detail on here, so I’m really asking these questions in order for you to answer them to yourself, rather than to respond on the forum.
What behaviour did your friend suggest was abusive, and why did that friend feel it necessary to alert you to this behaviour?
Why did you leave your husband? Was it solely because your friend suggested to you that you were being abused?

I have also been married for several decades and I know that it just isn’t that straightforward to walk away, so I can’t help wondering if you didn’t have one or more very good reasons to do so…

Please do look at the threads This is My Abuser and This is My Abuser Part II and ask yourself if any of the traits described by other women on the forum are familiar. These are abusive traits.

But the other thing to remember is that you can be unhappy in a marriage without being abused. So even if you walk away from here, deciding that your husband wasn’t abusing you after all, that doesn’t necessarily mean that you were wrong to leave.

[SeekingPeace]

Hi Featheredge

Sorry to hear about what you have been and are going through. Please do not doubt yourself or your decision. It’s common to do that when we have been on the receiving end of abuse from an intimate partner.
I used to think my husband was at the “mild end of the spectrum” when it came to abusiveness until I spoke to a lady from my local Women’s Aid who told me she didn’t view it as mild at all! Also spoke to Patricia Evans who is in America and an expert on the topic and author of several books about abuse. I was absolutely shocked when after sharing with her by email and during a phone consultation some of my journal entries of incidents, she said he was a very clever abuser and was at the extreme/top end of the scale. Well, I couldn’t believe it!
But I’ve since realised it’s because of the confusion these men create. For a long time I minimised my husband’s abuse, I accepted his excuses for it (eg stress at work, health anxiety). It’s common to normalise abuse. It’s how our minds cope with it. Are you aware of the cycle of abuse? That explains why they can seem so loving and caring one minute and so cruel and unkind the next.

Don’t fall for your husband’s current display of upset that you’ve left, his attempts at emotional manipulation. He wants you to feel guilty, that you should go back to him.
In the freedom programme this is called “The Persuader” and it is classic, textbook behaviour from an abusive man when a woman either threatens to or actually leaves the relationship. It’s why so many women end up going back to their abuser!

Please do consider doing the freedom programme. It has been life changing for me. There are currently courses being held on zoom. In fact a programme I’m involved with as a helper has just started up again this week. I’m not sure if it is allowed on this forum to pass on details in a private message of such things? If it is and you are interested I could send you an invite?

My husband was so so clever and subtle in his abuse that when I was first offered a place on the freedom programme I didn’t think it was the right thing for me! I suggested they offer the place to a woman more in need of it than I! I said to the organiser but of course she knew better than me. And here I am today in a very different position having completed it. What have you got to lose?!

When I talk about the effect on my children, I am talking about the damage caused by them witnessing an abusive marriage. The effect on children cannot be underestimated.

My husband has never directed abuse at them (thankfully!) but I did not want them growing up with a very unhealthy role model. It’s well known that children who grow up in abusive homes are more likely than those who do not to either become abusive themselves eg boys learn from their fathers; they develop abusive beliefs and attitudes towards women)or else they become victims of abuse.

My husband has never been physically abusive towards me but he is very emotionally abusive. Even though I have now ended the marriage I have deep concerns about how his emotional manipulation and control will affect my children as they grow. For example, already my young daughter has been drawing pictures of daddy, saying he is sad or crying. So you have to wonder what he is saying to her or the mood he is conveying when he is spending time with her when I am not there.

I personally know women whose adult children won’t speak to them because their abusive husbands brainwashed the children and turned them against their mothers during their formative years (for example telling them that it was mummy’s fault they weren’t still together as a family unit). There’s more to it than that of course but hopefully that snapshot of the damage it can do helps towards your understanding of my concerns for my children.

[SeekingPeace]

Just wanted to add that although I’ve written my post as though I’m assuming your husband has been abusive to you, I recognise there’s the possibility that you’ve just had a difficult marriage rather than your husband being an abuser. That said, the fact that you’ve come on to this forum with questions in your mind as to whether or not your husband has been abusive is definitely something to explore further.

Whilst there is no such thing as the perfect relationship, I still believe you deserve none less than to be treated well. You state that you weren’t and that shows to me that you were right to leave.

[Cloudyskys]

Thank you all so much for your responses, I really appreciate them. I have started reading some of the books and the Lundy Bancroft one makes lots of sense but I found The Dominator confused me more besides the persuader part. Are they supposed to fit into all the boxes? Then I read the good guy bit at the end of each chapter and find parts of that relate to my husband so I start feeling guilty again. I’m struggling to download the healing from emotional abuse because I don’t have a kindle and I definitely can’t order the book. I’ve been in touch with women’s aid, they were fantastic and put me in touch with someone regarding doing the Freedom Programme. I’ve also started counselling.

He’s very apologetic at the moment and the second he realises he’s said something he apologises. He’s definitely figured out something is not right. Wow this is hard!!! I’ve shared with a couple of friends and also my GP so I’m assuming that will mean it’s been logged. They’ve all been amazing. My Mum has told me many times over the years that he’s controlling and I just need to be stronger with him.

His Dad treats his Mum in the same way so I’m assuming he doesn’t know any different.

Xx

[Lottieblue]

Hi Cloudy,

Well done for making a start with those books.

I use the Kobo app. I have the e-version of Lundy Bancroft on there and have also just downloaded he Patricia Evans one that @SeekingPeace recommends above – I think you might find that helpful too. I have the audible version also on Kobo, of Healing from Hidden Abuse. I didn’t find that one so good first time round but on the second listening it did start to resonate.

Don’t worry about not being able to pigeonhole his behaviour towards you one way or the other. If you educate yourself I think things will become clearer. The problem is that they train us to believe that their behaviour is completely acceptable and it wasn’t until I questioned one big incident with my husband that I realised that a lot of his behaviour that I would never have questioned was also abusive.

Do you keep a record? You might find this really helpful. I opened up a new (web based, so it doesn’t drop into an inbox that he might see) email account and I just use it to email myself – so I’m writing letters to myself about anything that happens, big or small. At the outset it was memories of things too, and now it’s just in a day by day basis. Things he does or says that make me feel bad or are in some way not acceptable. Keeping records was one of the first and best pieces of advice I got when I came on here.

Also, have you googled Cycle of Abuse?

Re your question re fitting all the boxes – absolutely not. I’m sure you have just skimmed through for the bits that are relevant to you initially, but at some point you will read that there are some types that don’t fit your abuser at all, some that fit him completely, and others that you can pick bits out of to cobble together to make a match for your own.

You’re doing well. Don’t panic. It takes time.

LB x

[Beautifulday]

hi @cloudyskyz
Welcome to the forum ! Im in a very very similar situation to you and reading your first post yes this is abuse! Do not think its just a “bad marriage” or a “marriage with problems” this is abuse! I was like you and questioned myself thought maybe it was just a difficult marriage but after reading many books one being Lundy Bancrofts I and advice from the lovely ladies here I had a light bulb moment, im still in the marriage but for the past 3 months have been taking baby steps, eeading educating myself on emotional abuse, covert n********m , cycle of abuse, the fog, intermitent reinforcement you may not have heard of these terms before I know I never had! But once I started googling I just couldn’t believe it. With regards to the Lundy Bancroft book and the types of abuser please don’t think they have to fit one type, he mentions that he may be indeed one type or a mix of a few or all! My H is a mix of around 4 so don’t think they have to fit a certain type.

You say you have to ask permission to buy things? This is abuse, controlling abuse financial abuse. Any thing that makes you upset or down is not right and not healthy. A marriage is suppose to make you feel happy, loved , should be compromise.
I realise this now. Im not allowed to do anything regarding decor in my home which needs massive renovation so we are practically living in squalor. Yet if I broach the subject of doing the bathroom out he goes off on one gives silent treatment etc. This is not normal there is no compromise.
Please do not doubt yourself this is abuse because Im going through very similar myself, like @lottieblue. When its just a bad marriage usually both parties realise they are drifting apart and its just that the spark has gone there doesn’t tend to be controlling behaviour like we are tolerating.
Please keep us updated on how your doing lovely ok x*x

[Cloudyskys]

Aaah! Just wrote a reply and it’s disappeared!!! Hopefully it will appear. Just feeling a bit broken at the moment – the cycle of abuse all makes sense and I’d say we’re in the calm phase at the moment and I just feel awfully guilty for having thought he’s abusive but rereading my notes there’s obviously something going on that’s not quite right. I feel like I’m waiting for something to happen to I can justify how I’m feeling! It just seems wrong!

[Lottieblue]

@cloudyskys this is normal and it’s designed to do exactly why it’s doing. Keep you there. The problem that I found at the start was that I then thought “oh it’s all ok, I’m not going to want to leave” and then when that awful moment comes again you wish that you had got yourself ready.

We all know that when he is being abusive we feel weakened and sick and powerless. When things are calm we can feel quite happy and in control. So this is the time to act. This is the time to educate yourself, start making plans, start putting things in place. And then if and when that moment comes when you say “I just can’t do this any more” (the Red Line) you have already got your ducks lined up. If it never comes, no harm done.

So, strange as it may feel, go to a lawyer, and then follow their advice. When things take a turn for the mean again, you will feel so much stronger for having done so.

LB x

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