This is so pathetic

[financabuse]

This is so trivial — but it did say that we could use these forums to vent a little — and I read others’ stories of really proper problems, terrible abuse and I recognise that this is nothing.

Nonetheless I am so over-sensitive now I don’t know HOW to be normal anymore I think. I have a new boyfriend and I genuinely do not think he is an abusive type — but I am so wary, so scared because I know I didn’t really recognise the signs before so (I think to myself) why would I this time either??

It is just a tiny thing, a row yesterday – over the phone, where he put the phone down on me and I was only trying to help him and it’s fine. People do row. He came back and he apologised. I spent the entire time before his return from work thinking right “What is the normal, healthy way to respond to this?”. My emotions are so battered from before, my default of putting up with it, minimising it, not standing up for myself, not crying over spilt milk, seeing it from their side is SO SO engrained. Then what on earth is the normal response? The healthy response? Was feeling upset justified even?

I did think it was unfair and unjustified to yell at me that way when I was trying to be helpful. Plus it was actually him (not me) whose response seemed to be ’emotional’ rather than ‘logical’. What he started saying, the hyperbole, the extrapolating to the worst, most unlikely scenario and the whole “So I should just tell me boss that I will quit my job, is that what you are saying – I will just quit right now is that it?” When that was SO FAR from what I had even slightly been advocating

So it wasn’t fair but I just am at a loss now as to what one should do in those situations. I have a (perhaps unjustified) fear and theory that abusers ‘test out’ their future victims. They start with small infringements, boundary-crossings, testing limits and see how the victim reacts. If she reacts ‘healthily’ they tend to think, this is not the girl for me … if however she reacts placatingly, taking his point of view, wanting to soothe, wanting to help, taking on the burden then they think ‘Aha! I can mind control this one! She is a self-blamer and people-pleaser. Good!!’

So I sat there, kinda numb, kinda shocked, kinda sad but also thinking ‘Right – ok. What is the normal way to address this when he comes back. Or is it even normal to stay here at all. Perhaps I should leave. Perhaps I should be angry. Perhaps I should make a scene. Perhaps I should be loving and forgiving. Why don’t I know any more!!?’

Why are my emotions so stilted so unnatural — that I just don’t seem to have any at all beyond a kind of numbness. And fear. That I don’t want to go back to that. But I don’t know anymore what is normal. I feel sociopathic in my detached-ness.

In the end, I was nice. (As usual!). I texted a few hours later with ‘Are you ok?’ and he replied conciliatory and apologetic and said he was sorry for speaking like that with me. Then he came home and we kissed and were loving etc. etc.

But I am still sitting here feeling not 100%. Wondering if this is the start? If I should have done something differently. Wondering if I know anything? If I can tell? If I am now hyper-sensitive and over the top. OH well, never mind. It is nothing.

I do wish they could train ‘givers’ when they are young, psychologically into understanding what is healthy giving and equally how to stop immediately the moment you know it is abusive. I wish it was easier. I am pretty sure he is a very good man. I am not completely sure that I am well set-up for relationships.

[freedomtochoose]

This is such an honest, human post. And thank you for writing it.

Can’t actually pretend I have many answers. I’m at home today, on a scale of 1-10 my day is about five, and not feeling like going out, so the least I can do is show you moral support.

A counsellor once said to me that recovering would be ‘like recovering from a stroke’ I would ‘need to learn how to do things again’…

at the time I stared and said something in utter disbelief.
But looking back, since I left d.a. situation – this is how it has been.
A series of going back or forward into things and situations to experience them anew. There is hope attached to that, on my better days, hope for a better life…

I had one relationship since I left. It was a long-standing relationship actually, and like you, I had lots of thoughts around what is ‘normal’ behaviour. Looking back I think I used the relationship (not in a nasty way, I hope) to test out my feelings – about lots of things. I’m not sorry I had the relationship, as there were lots of ‘normal’ things I saw in it. But in the end there were some behaviours on his part I didn’t like, and which hurt me, so I drew my boundaries and left, hoping we could have a friendship instead. Then I realised with sadness that the other person wasn’t capable of doing that (yet?).

I’m not sure how I would personally feel about the phone thing. perhaps it is helpful to frame it in terms of preferences. Your preferences. Maybe: you prefer that someone doesn’t put the phone down abruptly on you? You might prefer them to say: ‘got to go just now, see you later’ or ‘I need to go out for a walk’ or whatever, let you know that they still care, but they are struggling with something at the moment.

With my daughter on occasion I have on occasion a very stormy relationship. Teenage hormones at play here, and me still learning how to deal with things. but I know we love each other and trust each other, so usually at some point we end and start with an ‘i love you’.

I’m not sure I will ever be able to do that with a man (again). Love is now for me very much bound up with compassion. Maybe that is me, getting older, but I kind of value that more than I value anything.

In the end for women with herstories like ours, I think it comes down to treating ourselves with compassion and figuring out what our needs are- trying to express them – and trying to compromise in relationships, whilst maintaining our personal boundaries. You sound very thoughtful about this. I get your trepidation. In the last relationship I had our sex life was good, or so I thought at the time, but now I wonder whether some of that was trauma bonding. Until I figure that one out I don’t want to have another relationship. That’s where I am right now.

well done for posting
ftc
x

[financabuse]

Thanks so much FTC. This “but I know we love each other and trust each other, so usually at some point we end and start with an ‘i love you’.”

It’s that really. I don’t mind arguing (I don’t particularly like it but I am ok with it) if I think underlying the argument is that. That sense of no matter how irritable … there is a solid base of love, compassionate love, behind it. People do annoy each other, that’s a part of life — we are none of us perfect.

I am trying to put my finger on what was wrong with that last argument. And I can’t. I can’t articulate it or even grasp it with intellect. It is a ‘gut’ feeling. And having ignored those in the past, to my detriment … I don’t want to do it again.

But thanks so much. I think this site is fantastic. And that is very much due (almost 100% due) to those that post with such compassion and such kindness and such a depth of understanding (through experience and just through decency). All of that decency that is twisted against us and put to such bad effect by the abusive, is actually wonderfully expressed and put to such positive use here … would that the world were more like that!

I will toss and turn a bit more in my head about it all. Maybe I will bring it up in fact with him — but I am so nervy, so suspicious of giving anyone ‘ammunition’ to use against me (ie “well you were in an abusive relationship in the past, so it is likely YOU that is the problem not me”). I have lost trust. I am unsure.

Because I am ALREADY analysing my own behaviour, looking to see whether I triggered it, whether I wasn’t sufficiently sympathetic, whether I was too logical, or too didactic in offering a potential solution, whether I should have given more space, whether I can solve it by handling it differently in future …. it is all just ME ME ME ME ME about being the problem and I think (intellectually) I shouldn’t be thinking like that. I should be thinking “No. That’s not ok – actually what HE did was not ok.”

I wonder why I find THAT so hard to internalise. I can write it. But inside myself it is still somewhere all self-blame. 🙁

[fizzylem]

Hi FA, well you’ve done the right thing for yourself and reached out to ask when you feel you do not know the answer – this is also known as resiliance; knowing when it is one of those times you need a bit of help and where to go for it – this stops you being in a vulnerable position. Great!

I would say it is perfectly normal after abuse that we sometimes get confused in this sort of situation and feel unsure how best to respond – yes. I would also say that this happens to everyone not just those that have been abused – where we need to reflect before deciding how best to respond sometimes – no one knows all the answers all of the time hey. What is important is that you have stopped to think ‘how do I want to respond to my feelings here’.

First thing, how has it left you feeling? I’m wondering if you may feel a bit better if you were able to convey these feelings, what feelings it invoked to your new partner? I think it is important he knows how you felt / what you feel. He doesn’t need to do anything other than show you he understands, it should help him to think about how he talks to you in future and he will likely say this.

Second, is there anything left over you’d like to say to him? E.g. I understand you felt angry, stressed and emotional, however, I would rather we didn’t shout, that we always try to talk to one another with kindness and respect. This is really important to me. I think it may be important for you to state what is the boundary here.

Guess you’ve logged this inccident now; guess if it happens again or starts to become a pattern or worse then you will revisit how you feel and do what is right and needed. By stating what is the boundary you feel he crossed, this is like verbal warning number one.

We don’t always get it right re how we communicate do we, we all get emotional at times as well. He has the opportunity to develop here now – you both do, develop your communication and understanding for one another. He has apologised straight away, so he knows he shouldn’t have spoken to you like this – but has he learnt anything if so what? I think you can forgive him on this occassion, providing you say what you need to say before moving on.

When we’re with someone, we, him do get low and stressed sometimes, it is one persons job to support and give the other person the space, without judgement, to think and express how they feel – sometimes this means hearing their wrath and not reacting – we all get angry and this is ok and needed sometimes hey. I think it’s always best to never react or try to help an emotional person, usually all they need in that moment is emotional support and the space to express their thoughts and how they are feeling and that is it. When he gets emotional again, maybe think ‘offer emotional support only for now’ – no fixes – these offerings can come later once he is able to discuss it with logic and reason.

Guess that for all of us it depends whether a person’s worst is someone we can live with; worst should pass as the stressful/difficult situation passes. Worst should not be critical, blaming, abusive. Worst may be a bit of a personal struggle with our emotions sometimes before working out what to do – is this what happened here?

Kicking the dog does occur sometimes, kicking the person we love most because they are there, but it isn’t right or ok, you could tell him you can forgive him this time as he has apolgised, but you’d like him to consider that if this behaviour were to continue, it is only damaging the relationship and can be hurtful, that you wont stick around for too many repeat performances – or something like because it is not how you want the communication to become in your relationship.

Workout what it is you are left with and communicate this with kindness and respect – to improve how you both communicate in future – if it doesnt improve, change, develop then you will have to ask is this person right for me? Usually what happens is this sort of thing brings couples closer together as they work through it and communication and understanding for one another improves.

Hope he’s a keeper, but if not, then I hope you’ll walk away. Time will tell hey x

[financabuse]

“Worst may be a bit of a personal struggle with our emotions sometimes before working out what to do – is this what happened here?”

I hope so.

As to how I feel – well a little bit heart-sore, that funny sensation of not exactly pain but something discomforted directly behind the chest bone and a bit shaken, shaky maybe. But apart from that all well.

Thanks for all your brilliant advice fizzylem. I will take it to heart and I think I will try to discuss it further, maybe this evening ….

I am off to take the dog for a walk, which is always a good thing and more to the point the dog loves it!

I do worry that I don’t have those ‘natural’ boundaries, natural instincts that just sort of cut abusive behaviours off at the pass. Perhaps that is something that can’t be taught … some people just are wired in a way to be far too ‘mindful’ of others at their own expense. They make for lovely people of course, but perhaps they are also easy targets to manipulate, because they are always second-guessing things and taking what is said at face value.

I am unduly upset – and I just wonder whether that is because there is something more ‘off’ in that conversation than I can tangibly put my finger on, and my gut recognises it even if my brain can’t.

Thanks

[fizzylem]

Happy dog with pinging tail and fresh air helps no end!

Your emotions are likely a bit tangled hey; old haunting feelings with feeling upset, and likely disappointed, at being treated this way in the here and now – which you have every right to feel, you deserve to be seen and treasured for who you are – always – when we are not this angers and upsets us.

I’m the same, I usually know after the interaction that my boundaries have been crossed because it doesn’t feel right, but in the moment I give an auto response, it’s ok, yes I can, how can I help the other person feel ok here etc etc.

The rule of thumb I use is if it doesn’t feel ok for me then it’s not ok. Then I try to work out what I feel and why, where is this coming from. Then I can workout how best to respond.

Please take some comfort in the fact you have stopped, you are processing this and working out what needs to happen. This really is great. It shows us you are responding to the self x

[financabuse]

Yes I feel so much better for the walk. I got completely, totally and utterly drenched – had to change all my clothes, my hair is still soaking wet … and yet, suddenly I realised what was freaking me out was that I had reverted ‘mentally’ to immediately feeling powerless again as if I was now utterly stuck and I couldn’t change my situation.

Yet as I walked, I changed from that mental state into thinking — wait, you still have agency, if you don’t like it you can leave – in fact you should leave and you have that right.

And I suddenly didn’t feel back in that powerless, endure it but make no steps to change it mode. I remembered I could do something myself.

And with that thought, I don’t feel so sick or squeamish at the thought of tonight and being here and him coming back … which suddenly was filling me with dread (but that is how it WAS and not perhaps how it IS just I had reverted mentally – not necessarily that the situation was abusive but that I had automatically returned to an abused mindset).

Anyway, I am probably babbling. I think I am making steps — as you say. I must be … I just don’t want to get it wrong. I don’t want to go back. I don’t want to be mentally stuck as I was.

Thank you for listening and thank you for helping — and I do wish I could be of more help to others on this forum (I have read many posts) but I think perhaps donating is a better way for me to give back, given my lack of expertise in this!!

[fizzylem]

Aww this is so lovely to read; so glad you’ve worked it out and feel freed. I don’t think there is any danger of you going back, you have clearly been able to give yourself exactly what you need. Wishing you all good things x

[financabuse]

Thanks Fizzylem. I am a bit swings and roundabouts at the moment. I decided yesterday that I wasn’t fit or ready for a relationship.

Having sat feeling wobbly (still) from such a minor, minor thing – and reading posts on here, I then got annoyed with myself and said “Look, this sitting all day feeling s**t and reading WA — this is stupid. Just stupid. You are clearly not happy so don’t fall into a pathetic heap of manipulable-ness and non-agency just go ffs. You don’t NEED a relationship.” And it is true, I am well set-up to be on my own and I don’t mind it. So as I was meant to be going to my mother’s (detail removed by moderator) anyway to help her I thought I would simply explain I needed to go this weekend and attempt to get some space – at least to think.

So I packed up my basic stuff and put it in the car with the dog. And I felt so unemotional about it. Neither happy nor sad, just practical. And I also looked at my relationship in such a cold, cold light – suddenly I looked at my boyfriend in my mind’s eye and I could see nothing that I liked at all. And I felt so cold and so clinical and so devoid of humanity.

And I got in the car and drove — and I don’t know whether these things transmute through the ether or what … but about 40 mins later I got a call. I didn’t pick up. But I picked up the voicemail when it came through. And he was really sick. (detail removed by moderator) and thought he had terrible food poisoning. He was asking me to come and pick him up from the station … because he really thought he was going to pass out or collapse. So of course I went.

And here I am back. And I still feel cold and detached in some ways – but I am not showing it. I really think I am becoming someone very cold.

But he is better – and we are now going out (detail removed by moderator) and I still feel weirdly detached from everything. Just removed. But I don’t think he is abusive, I think it is more that I still have some big problems that need to be worked through that’s all and I don’t want to hurt anyone but I think I may need to sort this somehow on my own.

I feel very weird. And I am not sure why I am writing or telling you (anyone) this! But thanks for your kind replies. Everyone here is so good. I am glad there is such a space for people.

You know, because even if you don’t write but just read …. there is so much positive information in all of the posts. I hope all is well with you.

[KIP.]

It’s not trivial. It sounds dreadful. Would any of your other friends talk to you this way? Would you behave like this to anyone? Your gut was right to get out of there. He will know your thoughts and be on his best behaviour but it won’t last. If this is what he’s like at the beginning of a relationship I doubt it will take long for a repeat performance. He chooses to behave this way. Maybe it’s too soon for you to enter into another relationship.womens aid recommend two years. We are all different but for me I know I was vulnerable long after the two years mark.

[financabuse]

Thanks KIP and all! It is a little too early for me I think.

I don’t know whether it is abusive or not because as fizzyl said, probably everyone has moments of stress and that is part of being human but I, myself, do not really feel in a good enough position to be able to tolerate the ‘normal’ ups and downs of a relationship.

But really all is ok. I do hope to have some time to myself over the next weekend or so to think it all through.

Thanks Thanks Thanks all!

[Flowerchild]

Morning, Finances darling. I’ve been turning your story over in my mind since yesterday, and you know what? I don’t think it’s you. I really don’t think it’s you who isn’t ready to be in an equal, respectful, loving, mutually supportive relationship. I think it’s him.

You were listening, being supportive, helpful and so on and he flipped, lost his temper and vented his anger on the wrong person. He packed up his frustration and resentment and strapped it to your back, where it did not belong. And when you calmly withdrew to give both of you space to reflect, he panicked and played the pity card and you rescued him. If he had really had food poisoning he would have been totally unable to get on a train! Think about it. And he wouldn’t have needed you, unless you’re his GP. Even if you were, you wouldn’t be treating him, anyway, would you? It’s not allowed.

He sounds like a manipulative man-baby looking for a soft place to fall whenever life gets a bit too real. You don’t have to be his soft place.

What’s in it for you? How supportive is he when you’re upset or struggling or frustrated? Is it a two-way street or are you the only one expected to take the brunt of bad temper and then come running to pick up the pieces?

Think long and hard about how fair and equal the relationship he wants with you can actually be, based on his attitudes and behaviour.

What does his sorry mean to him – an automatic wiped slate every time, or an actual commitment that he will do differently and better in future?

Can he sit down and calmly discuss his bad behaviour and talk about how he can make better decisions or will he get annoyed and resentful and go the “I’ve said I’m sorry, what more do you want?!” route, which is the mark of someone who refuses to change.

It might be worth finding out before you spend any more of your precious time with him!

Good luck, lovely.

Flower x

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