What's normal ?

[Tractor]

Hi,
I am really wondering what a normal relationship is?

My friends / work colleagues are horrified at some of the things but I’ve been in two abusive relationship I feel like I’ve lost touch with normality ?

Have any of you had positive experiences?

X

[maddog]

I’ve read your posts before Tractor but I can’t remember if you’ve done Freedom? I found it really enlightening. I still live with my abuser though hopefully getting out soon. I don’t know what normal is. My husband is the only man I’ve lived with and it’s decades since I went out with anyone kind.

[Tiffany]

I am in a new and I think normal relationship. It feels weird. In a good way. But there is no anxiety. I am not walking on eggshells. I can talk about anything without fear of repercussions. He likes me. You have no idea how weird it is to be with someone who likes you.

I still have fears as legacy from the abuse, but he is very gentle and careful of them. He never pushes me into any situation that I am uncomfortable with. We do everything at my pace.

There is no passive aggressiveness. He tells me when I make him happy. He tells me what makes him upset. There are no games.

It doesn’t feel normal yet. But I hope one day it will.

[Tractor]

Hi mad dog

Nice to hear from you ! It’s good that you have done the project and building yourself up for when you feel ready to leave . I’ve read the book about the free dom project and also the one why does he do that by lundy bancroft so I know wwhat it looks like on paper just wish I could experience it so I know I think I need to work on my self esteem and confidence I’m feeling like the whole world is full of abusive men right now ! I’m still back and fourth with my abuser he’s a major gas lighter I know it but can’t seem to kick him away for good!

Tiffany ! I’m made up for you how lovely would you mind me asking if you told him about your cause? I never know whether it’s something to share with a new partner? I’m so nervous about dipping my toes back in ! X

[Tractor]

Abuse! Not cause stupid phone x x

[Tiffany]

I wasn’t sure whether disclosing was the right thing to do – I had read that it can be dangerous to disclose too early, incase they are also abusers and they see your vulnerability. But I have a lot of physical and mental hang ups about dating, and so I figured that it was best just to tell him, so that he would understand if I had a panic attack, and so I could tell him about triggers so that he didn’t accidentally set them off. It seems to have worked out for me. He doesn’t pry for information, I just tell him what I want to.

[maddog]

I disclosed far too early with my husband. He said, I’d never do that. He also told me he’d never hurt me and that he’d stop doing whatever he was doing if I said.

Although over the years, I have had flashes that my husband is abusive, that he may be a sex offender, that I think he raped me…. It has taken years and years. My husband is now a grandfather. His first family were children when we met.

I would love to go out with other people. I would love to have a sex life again! There have been vast gaps over the years. Before this, I really want to get this bit of my life on a steadier ground and start the counselling. And feel as though I have something to live for.

[SunshineRainflower]

Normal is someone who is kind, loving, respects your space, respects your boundaries, never uses violence, doesn’t put you down and make you feel bad, doesn’t guilt trip, doesn’t gaslight and deflect blame, doesn’t use fear and threats to control.

I had one lovely non-abusive boyfriend in the past, they do exist. Being with him helped me realise my abusive ex was abusive because I started to compare their behaviour and realise there was something strange about the abusive ex, things didn’t add up.

A therapist told me they usually reveal themselves before 3 months, and this was the case with my abusive ex. It could only be tiny red flags, but anything that doesn’t sit right with you or makes your stomach lurch is a huge warning sign. My ex showed some tiny red flags on the first few dates which I noticed and ended things after a few weeks but unfortunately he was such a good actor he convinced me I’d got him completely wrong and to just ‘see how things go.’ I hope never to repeat this mistake again as it could have cost me my life.

In general, go very slow with new relationships. Watch out for pity play, them playing the victim, overstepping boundaries however silly it might seem. They’ll often tell you a ‘sad story’ about their past to see how much empathy you have – they like empaths as they use our empathy to manipulate us. Also watch out for future faking and fast forwarding, them having a past that seems hazy, them talking badly about exes, them not having many or even any friends, them showing any signs of aggression, them being extremely keen, them wanting constant contact (this will be passed off as keenness and romance but it’s really about control) and any ‘jokes’ that are put downs in disguise. Also watch out for the major one which is a tonne of charm and flattery at first (love bombing) which in time will turn to criticism and abuse. Normal men will pay you a compliment but it won’t be over the top, they will be wanting to get to know you too and work out if you are right for them rather than rush you along the process.

There are really good blogs, articles and youtube videos about this topic so I definitely recommend those, like you I’ve had to ‘re-educate’ myself about healthy relationships as a lot of boundary violation, guilt tripping and deflection of blame feels normal to me due to similar behaviour from family members.

[Tractor]

Ahh Tiffany , you bring hope to us all. Really happy for you! x

Maddog, have you tried counselling previously? You had loads to live for and look forward to , you just need to (when you are ready) spread those wings and make that step of leaving . You have a future ahead of you and will have all those things. You’ve come so far now keep going . You can do this ! hardest bit is accepting its abuse x

Sunshine rainflower, I do remember having one lovely boyfriend too but zero attraction I look back and wish I could have made myself attracted … I feel so nervous and unsure of myself at the minyte , still need to end this with him properly. We no longer live together , don’t sleep together just spend time with the kids but I know that I am just holding onto something I know isn’t right , maybe fear of being alone . Hes nice now as not living together but as you say those red flag warnings keep on popping up and I know hes not changed. Hes nothing like my violent ex husband hes more emotional and a brilliant gas lighter and manipulator …Ive discovered you tube been watching stuff on gas lighting so will look at healthy relationships tonight . thank you for your advice xx

[SunshineRainflower]

I can relate to that Tractor, both on the no attraction front and also with the gaslighting.

My genuinely good kind ex was ‘cute’ but I remember feeling really disappointed when I saw him naked. I never felt like ‘wow he’s so gorgeous I really fancy him’ feeling I’d felt with the others, but enjoyed his company and he had a lovely face and great personality so I tried for a few years to make it work. I always felt absolutely wracked with guilt, a heavy feeling in the pit of my stomach like I was hiding a secret from him. I hoped I would get more attracted but I got less and by the end felt a bit repulsed having sex with him, so ended it then and felt sad but mostly relieved. I just feel a bit gutted that since him everyone I’ve dated has been a bit of a nightmare in various ways, with the most recent one being actually dangerous, like they are getting worse, but I think with therapy hopefully I can heal my wounds and fix my dating pattern.

It bothers me how I seem to ‘fancy’ men who seem to be high on the ‘dark triad’ traits. I guess a lot of women are, it’s a combination of masculinity, high testosterone and confidence that seems to be appealing to me anyway. I’ve never met a man who I really fancied who was also a really good person, sadly. I hope one day that changes, I think it’s something to do with my background.

I am very familiar with the gaslighting, have you read Pat Craven’s resources on ‘the Headworker’?It described my ex well, he wasn’t the outwardly obvious ‘domestic abuser’ type, more the clever, manipulative, well planned, cruel, subtle type that created this illusion of the perfect boyfriend when in fact he was my worst nightmare. He kept his misogyny, sadism and liking for violence well hidden, it would just show up when his mask slipped and really confuse me as it seemed like the opposite of the man I met at the beginning. Waking up to the reality of who he was was the worst thing I’ve ever experienced in my life but after being free of him a while I do feel a lot better, I finally feel like I’m moving on and have been enjoying working on my own life.

You will feel a lot better once you have cut the ties, look up trauma bonds and keep watching those videos, they really help explain it. You might feel lonely but in time you will heal once you’re away from him, and create a great new life for yourself and your children, but as long as you’re with him he’ll be like a toxin stopping you from leading the life you deserve. Give the helpline a call too as they could help you put a final exit plan in place.

[KIP.]

Hey Sunshine, just wanted to agree about the attraction of a certain kind of man. Confidence, masculinity and high testosterone. This attraction I felt was because of my naievity. I was young and inexperienced and had no life experience. No idea about red flags. My ex also groomed me. My taste in men has completely changed. I look for calm and friendly and start from there. (detail removed by moderator) men often have these traits and in the beginning they’re exciting to be around, but by the end they’re a nightmare. Only generalising for the topic. My sister once said my ex would be great for a night out but not to live with. How right she was.

[Tractor]

Evening!

Sunshine my days you sound like you have just described me! Exactly the type of man I’m attracted to . I feel like I’m addict to contact with him. Working on finding a new house selling mine as live very close so hoping that helps. Massive good luck with your therapy. I am going to start mine again too.

Hey kip good to hear from you how’s things your end? I’m defo starting to develop the right attractions was watching dinner date and the first one I would normally be attracted to but I spotted the red spots and number two had so much more to him and I reckon he could grow on me! X

[maddog]

I have had some wonderful boyfriends who adored their mums and liked women. So I married a misogynist who despised his mother and every other female he has had contact with. 300 odd years later, I am only beginning to learn! Gah!

[SunshineRainflower]

KIP I totally agree about calm and friendly, unfortunately my abusive ex appeared to be both these things, he wasn’t my usual type and was more ‘cute’ rather than super hot, masculine and gorgeous lol but I chose to date him as I thought he had loads of great personality traits and seemed calm, mature, reliable, stable, kind and a good listener etc, what a joke that turned out to be! It really threw me that he ended up being this evil character, it was like living in some terrible nightmare when I realised. I think he worked out the type of man I was looking for and adapted his mask accordingly.

I think I’m leaving it up to fate now, as all my years of dating and trying to meet a good man haven’t worked out and it got me really down seeing everyone around me find lovely men to marry and have families with when I kept attracting all the worst types. I must have dated more than all of my friends and I am so sick of dating, I just want to find someone nice or be single. Hopefully once I’ve healed the inner wounds I will repel all these bad characters and will attract someone genuinely good instead. It would be good if I could find someone who I was both sexually attracted to and who is also a good person.

Good luck with your journey too Tractor, it sounds like you’re on the right path and have awareness of everything which is half the battle. When I had a tv I liked watching those dating programmes too, it felt like a good way to educate myself on the types of men to aim for and which ones to avoid! I also find some of the matches really heart warming to see, they give me hope. x

[Serenity]

To me, a healthy relationship is where your partner sees you as a separate individual, and not just an extension of them or only there to serve their needs; where they respect your right to have choices, where they listen, are open and not manipulative, and where they see you both as having a right to reach your potential – so you’re both equals on a journey together ( one isn’t lesser than the other).

It is where you are spoken to with kindness, and your feelings are acknowledged and cared for; where your dignity is protected.

[Chickadee]

Hey. Normal is having fun together, just hanging out, communication, and it’s easy. It is a man that cares about your feelings, takes interest in you, is respectful, supportive, and who appreciates who you are.

Many of us have become so accustomed to the abuse if the controling, manipulative, self absorbed man that we aren’t sure of when we are with the real thing.

Re-train yourself to know when it is a non-abusive man.

[Author]

Posts