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    • #78543
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Just wondering, why do you think professionals such as judges/social workers/schools/police seem to give abusers (especially headworkers) get what they want (taking children from their mothers, for example) or get away with everything by ignoring it (knowing about the abuse, but saying nevermind, or saying the abuse is in your head, or giving them a far lesser charge than they deserve?

      I am very confused why when you finally get the courage to get a guy arrested for something. the police say he can get done for two charges but he only gets one, and has to do community service.

      He tells another judge that if I don’t agree with him, the judge has to give the kids to him.. which is coercion, he gets what he wants and you are told if you stop him then the kids will be given to him – ignoring the mind damaging behaviour

      and you tell social why you are scared and they say that they are not getting involved, because the children only see him at night.

    • #78545
      KIP.
      Participant

      Ignorance. Never haven been a victim. Not understanding the mind set of a predator. Just like us. We never imagined another human being could behave so dysfunctionally because it’s not on our radar. Minimising also, they see case after case and they are desensitised to the dangers just like we are. There are many reasons that’s why the minute you find a professional who understands your case and is supportive, grab onto them. Get their name/phone number, any contact details you can. Women’s aid are a fantastic organisation for support and raising awareness. I also think in my experience it’s whoever shouts the loudest that gets heard and as victims our voice is quiet through abuse and trauma while our abusers are so used to shouting for what they want it comes naturally. It’s important to have someone on your side who shouts louder when you simply can’t.

    • #78552
      diymum@1
      Participant

      i couldnt agree more with KIP – were ofen very vulnerable and conditioned into being silenced when we are coming out/out off an abusive relationship. because the officials see that we are not a group of people who are at their best (because of the abuse weve sustained) rather than invest money in us and take the time to understand the dynamics of abuse they simply go with the flow of the abuser. its not until were consistent and no longer fear saying im scared for my life or for my kids that they listen. in my experience ive had to assume the extreme. in truth i wasnt sure if he was capable of this but the truth is there was doubt you cab never underestimate these men. many have. i think the other factor is defintely the fact that we live in a victim blaming culture. which needs to change. if these men were blamed im sure they would be seeking out defomation of character law suits!! xx the audacity and brass neckedness gets them there in most cases xx love diymum

    • #78553
      diymum@1
      Participant

      also the main goal in life for an abusive man is to ‘win’ we have to be so so much stronger than them to put them where they should be facing the consequences of the law and behind bars xx

    • #78556
      KIP.
      Participant

      You’re right about them wanting to ‘win’ at all costs. Dragging children into things, manipulating family members, threatening and playing the victim. My ex said he was depressed. Where is his diagnosis. I’d been suffering evidenced diagnosed depression for years yet he gets to throw that word round with no evidence. I’m a different person now. I wish I had this awareness years ago. Things would have gone very differently. We need more people in court who have experienced this kind of win at all costs lying deceitful behaviour.

    • #78557
      diymum@1
      Participant

      you know KIP my ex slipped up a few times – i know because i read that he had said to an official ‘i have a need to be top dog’ he admitted to being the same as the lead charcter in the film ‘filth’ basically a psychopath. he didnt think that info would get back to me. here is projection for you if you like and his confession. he said dont worry when the kids are older i will put my kids straight about there mother. i dont honestly think they care about the damage and caos they cause because as above being top dog means they can stamp down the truly inferior character that they actually are. the truth is they cant step up to the plate they dont have the ability x*x love diymum

    • #78559
      diymum@1
      Participant

      tyson fury – what i have learned is these men dont like to be exposed – they dont like the mask to be taken – thats the only way to defeat a man like this.so describe him for exactly what he is and what hes doing. i ended up saying denying and fabricting information isnt getting us anywhere. we need a soloution so here are the facts – we need evidence and we need to really fight hard to teach the professionals who dont get it this is how it works – heres the patterns of behaviour – here are the tactics he uses this is how he gaslighted the last professional. it all takes time but you can base this on evidence based findings from people who have written the latest reports for womens aid Chowdry for one xx

    • #78561
      diymum@1
      Participant

      shazia choudry discusses it in terms of our human rights xx

    • #78562
      KIP.
      Participant

      I think it’s in their nature to slip up. They just don’t think they’re doing anything wrong. It’s how we get professionals to recognise these slips for what they really are. To get the professionals to dig deeper and have the tenacity to keep at these men, to get to the bottom of these kind of comments. To understand the language of the abuser. That’s where awareness is so important. My ex wrote, after I’d accused him of raping me hundreds of times, well the police only questioned me about (detail removed by moderator). I was gobsmacked, as if he was bragging, (detail removed by moderator), as if it was a winning argument. The thing is he didn’t have to respond to my allegations at all. He simply had to ignore or deny but he couldn’t help himself. Those kind of actions speak volumes too. That total need for control and having the last word.

    • #78564
      diymum@1
      Participant

      the patterns are there and tht is the consistency off them – im glad he tripped himself up how dare he flippantly say just (detail removed by moderator) times – my god – it is the audacty that really makes me boiling mad.

      the professionals need to recognise these repetetive ques im sure there IQs must be greater than these abusers surely xx

    • #78565
      KIP.
      Participant

      When I say he wrote. I mean he wrote in official  documents. It wasn’t even a private conversation which would have been bad enough. Surely that comment would have anyones alarm bells ringing. Also to fight a restraining order. Again I think controlling behaviour. If someone asked me to stay away and stop contacting them I’d just say yes no problems. What kind of a mind actually wants to go near someone who doesn’t want them near. Why don’t these actions ring huge bells with professionals. To me it’s common sense x

      • #78648
        Anonymous
        Inactive

        yes, you’d think professionals would have more sense… but I have also had an ex that lied on documents, bad named me to hell, and I told the school that I was a victim of his (due to arrest at very least) and they said I had to do meetings with him, and still do. Plus never actually got an injunction because he jumped in with family court before his final sentence. He weasels out a lot, and its frustrating that he ‘wins’ on these technicalities.

    • #78573
      diymum@1
      Participant

      they dont change their pattern of behaviour we can almost pre-emp them in the end with practice and experience of this. yeh i a gree they have no hesitation in lying to the law they must be in denial though – they live in a different reality thats for sure. i think court officials will be getting training soon – id like to see what that looks like i think too often they just scratch the surface of dv – i wonder how many people know the concept of triangulation and programming? i bet not many certainly not many people i know xx management are scared of taking responsibility – alot of this is due to fear xx

    • #78575
      fizzylem
      Participant

      So not right is it. Totes get this the way they use child contact and the court to continue to abuse and ‘win’ yes. The welfare of the child does not seemed to be placed above the fathers rights, nor is the mother’s welfare. I think in cases like this the court needs to recognise that if the child hasnt got two parents working together, then the child needs the primary carer to firing on all cylinders ‘for the child’ and should be supported to help make this happen, she is a single parent for gods sake, this needs to recgonised before and above splitting the child in two places to be apparantly ‘fair’, yes the child and the fathe rhave a right to their relationship, an abuse free relationship, it’s actually abusive to the child when the father is abusive to the mother even if there is no direct abuse to the child from the father – also it is good that they are starting to listen to the voice of the child now, but, they are children and not always capable of making informed decisions – they make emotional decisons, of course they love the abusive parent and will always want to be with dad – unless they have exprerienced violence or horrific abuse – although even then, in some cases, the child will say they want to see dad. Much more needs to be taken into account.

      Yes clearly a lack of understanding regarding what is abuse and the effects. If someone is a victim of violence then it becomes a legal matter, but when there is no violence it’s not. They lie hey. Covering your arse and the suing culture? The professionals have to be seen to be objective with all parties? It’s often her word against his – lack of evidence. I think anyone who hasn’t experienced it assumes good will, that we are all trying our best – even him, that we are equally responsible when a marriage or partnership breaks down, that kids get used as weopons. If both parents could place the child at the centre of all their decisions post break up, then there would be no need for family court.

    • #78581
      diymum@1
      Participant

      the problem is when we deal with an abusive parent what they want is paramount and that should ring the bells of the officials- maybe they will need to change the family court radically. if they had a jury there maybe – if women were given an advocate especially if they were in the trows of feeling traumatised and unable to think logically this aspect nees to be looked at because weve ALL felt that way. if the officials were properly trained to make rational decisions in responsibility over rights of the father – responsibilty or lack of it has to be the first question. are these kids going to be damaged? because this is the next generation it has to stop. the cycle has to be brocken and the courts have the power to do it x*x

      love diy mum xxxx

    • #78582
      diymum@1
      Participant

      i personally feel if fathers abuse the mother of their child infront of the kids whether that be verbal emotional or physical abuse. Supervised access only should be granted or nil. until that father has completed a full perpetrator programme for at least 6 months to a year. he would have to admit his wrong doings and correct his behaviour – he should be given supervised time to prove this. if he screws up i think contact should be stopped. other countries take harder decisions on criminal behaviour – i think thats the problem because this is considered a family matter its treated more flippantly. i dont think thats the answer.(detail removed by moderator) xx tough measures is whats needed xx

    • #78583
      KIP.
      Participant

      I always say if the Judge thinks the abusive father is a suitable person to look after his children then the Judge must allow the same man to babysit the Judges children or grandchildren if he/she has any. That should be the test. Let an abusive violent man near the Judges children first and see how many decisions change.

    • #78586
      diymum@1
      Participant

      yeh im sure if they walked in our shoes the decisions would change – you notice they never highlight stories much in the press about kids being hurt during court ordered contact. its more or less censored -unless its high profile cases like rotherham xx

    • #78587
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      My ex got patted on the head for being a good father and was asked to move near me so he could still see lo. I deserved to have been hurt because it was what I was used to.

    • #78588
      diymum@1
      Participant

      someone said to me the other day i can see how women get trapped in violent relationships but do it twice it then has to be the womans fault! no its the perpatrators doing noone else actions or non action comes into it. no one deserves to be treated this way. i think they have to ask why are peoples attitudes so scewed in this way afterall why would we or should we down play abuse? are they too scared to really face this issue is that it xx or is it because were women? or worse victims of these men. we dont want that or encourage it – abusive men do this (its there choice) and should always be the ones that take the blame xx

    • #78599
      Twisted Sister
      Participant

      ….not just the professionals, but worse, thw children.

      The children who are torn away from their mothers, by abusive fathers who continually try to drive a wedge between children and mother.

      Who turn children against their mothers and perpetuate the abuse through the generations.

      Theres so much of it to educate about.

      There are some awful services locally who are actively seeking to keep perpetrators within their families and taking the supporting the perpetrators to a whole other level ofpain fr women and children.

      Its a male narrative.

    • #78603
      KIP.
      Participant

      DIY, many women go onto a bigger alpha male to feel safe from their abuser. My ex new gf was a victim of domestic violence then a matter of months later my ex who was going through court for assault comes along. She was so traumatised by her ex she practically threw herself at my ex. I know this because I know her neighbour who saw the whole thing transpire. he is huge and alpha male and she grabbed onto him because she felt vulnerable. Out of the frying pan into the fire. I was at a meeting with victims and one woman said she was too scared to go to the local shops for fear of running into her abuser ex, The other womans response was for her to get a new man. I was gobsmacked. But there’s a crazy logic in there somewhere.

    • #78605
      diymum@1
      Participant

      its because our survival instinct is so strong it actually outweighs the reasoning – i do get that desperate measures can lead people into the wrong hands once again. i do totally get this – its not just about attracting the wrong ones these men can sense vulnerability and they use it xx its like jackpot for them xx its sick xx

    • #78606
      KIP.
      Participant

      Yep I’m sure my ex thought that. He was with me at the time he first met her and I remember him telling me that ‘someone was interested in him’. Trying to make me jealous, triangulation. But it showed his thought process. You would have thought he’d say I’m interested in someone else. How low his self esteem must have been that he’d say someone is interested in me. It always struck me as strange.

      • #78647
        Anonymous
        Inactive

        Yes my ex played that too. It was all “I’m getting nothing from you, so she is my new friend.” And if my daughter said she was staying at his, (detail removed by moderator) he just called my daughter a liar and said she meant me. Yet I go on holiday with my boyfriend years after we broke up and he takes my kids, one of which isn’t his. I got quite angry because I didn’t get the chance to tell her that my oldest isn’t actually his kid, because I am almost certain she doesn’t know. I have also seen a statement which looked coersed as hell, saying he was not psychologically abusive or anything, except she is basically used as a babysitter. Its getting annoying because its so obvious that its such an act. You point it out, and they are like “(detail removed by moderator), plus in a relationship you share the jobs.” His girlfriend also has some kind of disability, and when I went out with him I was a single mother, and I’d been his ‘friend’ long enough… wouldn’t have me when I hadn’t had a kid… but no… hes great, not a threat to anyone.

        I think that its time I did what he did. Not shut up, not hide stuff. I did that last time. Too scared of what would be said. Too scared of hurting him, of all people. If they are gonna think your mad anyway, when you protect him, then maybe its time to show them just what he is.

    • #78608
      diymum@1
      Participant

      yeh i had that alot too comparing me often to much younger women, commenting on how they looked better than me. its a mind bender when you dont understand whats going on. you also wonder why would this really matter. but obviously they need this for their egos. it makes sense this is a personality type that will always work in this way pitting everyone against each other. im so glad i k ow this now and i only stumbled upon triangulation through other reading. it means we can lift the weight off our shoulders because all of this came from them and nothing we could have done would have changed that behavior. its freeing but at the same time a mystery as to why they need that much attention at the expense of others xx love diymum

    • #78629
      fizzylem
      Participant

      Pmsl the judge have the man before him babysit his own family’s children. Would be a good measuring stick for sure hey.

      My ex’s new partner said to me she was in an abusive relationship (detail removed by moderator) and feared being with someone like him again who lied about everything. Oh dear. She’s gone and got herself the biggest lair in the world this time around; all he learnt from me is how better to conceal and what not to say. There were/are plenty of red flags mind and she has clearly chosen to ostrich. It’s really spooky sometimes if I catch a glimpse of their relationship through my daughter’s eye as it is a mirror of our early relationship in many ways.

      I’m dreading the day she contacts me for clarification as ‘she’s ready to talk’, just hope we’re long gone. It’s v tempting to tell her to get lost if she does, as she has not reached out to me and she has contributed to our stress and suffering, but I’m just not the type of person to leave people to hang out to dry, if she comes knocking then guess I’ll answer, it’s a girl code thing for me, providing we’re totally clear of him of course. Just cant bare for the thought of anyone to be in the FOG and feeling am I going in sane – as I know only too well how terrifying and dreadful that can be and if I can help to aleviate that even slightly in others then I will everytime.

      The law is long over due dome evolving x

    • #78630
      fizzylem
      Participant

      Have had a radical thought re this topic lately; stop the fight, (detail removed by moderator) , I have little faith in the system and know he will win in his eys, yes I will get some protections for us too of course, but I see bigger benefits (detail removed by moderator) him out of my life. We work so hard to protoect our children from any of this when maybe what they need to see is how it really is? I’m thinking on obs…removing his power and myself from the fight really appeals though for obs reasons x

    • #78705
      maddog
      Participant

      The (detail removed by moderator) don’t seem to understand that the CPS can’t prosecute without enough evidence and so much domestic abuse is He said She said. It is hard to prove. This is not the fault of the police. I am so tired of false accusations. So, so tired. My ex uses (detail removed by moderator) against me and lies through his teeth. I am so effing furious about it.

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