Do abusers abuse consciously?

[Indiansummer]

Hi everyone,

I have only recently joined the forum and wanted to say hello.
I am so happy to know that there are so many brave women out there who confront abuse and support each other.
I am still trying to cope with the fact that domestic abuse happened to me. I never thought that I would find myself in this position. And still I’m not sure what hurts more – the abuse itself or the moment when I opened my eyes and realised that I’d become a victim of one.

I have a question to you, ladies, which might sound silly. In your opinion, does every abuser acts consciously and realise how their actions make you feel? Can abuse be impulsive?
My husband from whom I’ve recently separated acts now as if it was just a rough patch in our marriage and nothing serious. It makes me feel as if I need to explain how his actions made me feel and reinforce all the time that his behaviour was unacceptable and that’s why I left. Overall, throughout our relationship I felt that there’s always been a violent side to him which he had under control and channeled into sports or work etc but gradually it overtook him completely, and it seemed like he wasn’t able to control himself whatsoever

[KIP.]

Hi and welcome. In answer to your question, yes I believe they know exactly what they are doing. Otherwise they would beat and abuse us in public. My ex could control himself perfectly well until the door was closed and there were no witnesses. Abusers have a twisted way of minimising their behaviour and thus making us believe we are over reacting. It’s mind blowing dysfunction.

[Mummyboo]

Hi and welcome!
This was my biggest question when I left and I still struggle with it. I go to journey to freedom and I lot of the women really hate their ex’s. I find it really hard as despite the years of abuse including physical, emotional and sexual (I only worked out the sexual abuse through the course) I don’t hate my ex, I just don’t want to be married to him anymore. And I can’t see that he did it on purpose- like how could someone who said they loved me would set out to break me. But I think I will be able to work through this and understand it more. I’m sure more knowledgeable people will reply and help you out.
Congrats on getting out- it was the best decision I ever made. xx

[Twisted Sister]

Hello

Yes I truly believe they know. They know you are scared. They know you will do what you’re told if the children are under threat. They are absolutley sure of how to pull your strings and make you dance. Thats hate not love.

Warmest wishes. Ks

[Copperflame]

Yes they do, but they do not view their behaviour as abuse for the following reasons:-

– they don’t like women and harbour a deep disrespect for them;
– they see themselves as superior to women whom they view as inferior beings;
– they see women as objects who are not worthy of respect;
– they have a strong sense of entitlement and feel entitled to have their own way with everything;
– they feel a strong need to have Power and Control over a woman, but not only do they need to have power and control, because of their sense of entitlement and the distorted thinking patterns that go with it, they also feel ENTITLED to have Power and Control over a woman.

Abusers do not see their behaviour as abusive because they feel entitled to behave in this way. They regard women as having no rights whatsoever, while they have all the rights, including the right to dominate the woman and browbeat her into submission as they see fit to keep her in her place. If their partner defies them in any way, or tries to exert their rights in the relationship, the abuser feels justified in punishing her by abuse.

So in answer to your question, yes their behaviour is conscious, and also deep down under the layers of disrespect and entitlement, they know what they are doing is wrong, but because they enjoy the feeling of Power they justify their behaviour.

I should point out here that abuse can take place in same sex relationships, familial relationships, in workplace bullying and in friendships. However all abuse is driven by the same factors: self-centredness, entitlement, feeling superior to the survivor/target, disrespecting and objectifying the survivor/target and a need for Power and Control. Male violence against women is further driven by the deeply engrained attitude, values and beliefs which are endemic in our patriarchcal, male dominated society.

Hope this helps.
Copperflame x

[Indiansummer]

Thank you for your opinions, ladies

It is very sad to realise that someone can be so calculated in being hurtful

[KIP.]

Yes, it’s beyond devastating when you realise that someone you love, and you thought loved you in return, turns out to be an abuser. It’s crippling agony to accept that fact so I think that’s why we live in denial for so long. But once you accept what he is, life begins to make sense again and new doors can open.

[Christine]

Its hard to believe anyone could treat another person that way….especially when they are parents of their own children. I also struggle with the fact that my ex uses our child as a way to hurt me….but he is actually hurting her in the process. That makes me angry that he cloud do that to our child and then blame me for his behavior…

[KIP.]

Christine, you need to cut off his supply. You. If he cannot see you hurt he will lose interest. Total no contact and block and delete every method of him seeing into your life. Using children this way is child abuse so keep all evidence. I cannot tell you how badly my ex used our son, thankfully he was almost adult but this brings its own heartache. No contact x

[Christine]

Hi kip I’ve done handover. He came to door nice, chatty. I just tried to get our child ready and out through door as quickly as possible. I tried to make as little conversion as possible. He didn’t seem bothered to be honest….but u r right. If I keep it this way it will help me move on. He has met someone anyway which he is now all if a sudden all happy and wanting to be friends but this is hurting me….before he would cuddle me and talk about sex and now nothing and I’m supposed to just respond to his emotions again….friends now. Why don’t I see that being Friendly is a good thing instead of feeling angry and hurt . is that normal

[Rockandrolldreamscomethrough]

I have often wondered this myself, wondered whether he really means to be abusive. He had a very very bad upbringing and saw some horrendous things and sometimes I find myself using the fact as an excuse for his behaviour. However it is not at all. As KIP rightly pointed out, they can control themselves perfectly well until behind closed doors and then they unleash the abuse. My daughters father would be yelling and swearing at me but then as soon as he stepped outside and saw someone we knew he’d be lovely and polite. I think a huge part of it is, as Copperflame said, they do not consider what they are doing to be abuse. In fact o have actually stood there and told my partner what he is doing to me is abuse and his response was “how is it?” When I told him he changed the subject. He feels he is justified in behaving the way he does because I’ve “wound him up” or because he’s in a bad mood and wants someone to take it out on. He does not see that as abuse though, he sees that as part of being in a relationship and that is scary in itself. I really am glad you managed to find a way out 🙂 x

[Tiffany]

“He sees that as part of being in a relationship and that is scary in itself.”

This describes exactly how my abuser justified his abuse to himself. He has had a rotten upbringing and was abused himself, but he had an incredibly selfish point of view where all means were acceptable in meeting his ends. I couldn’t believe that his actions had been so calculating at first, but the more I think, the more I realise that he couldn’t not have made those descisions. It was too tailored to my insecurities to be random outbursts of anger. Too clever.

[Rockandrolldreamscomethrough]

Tiffany, that’s exactly the same as mine. His dad was horrendously abusive to him and his siblings growing up. Ironically when he told me about it he mentioned being nothing like his dad. The only difference is his dads was fuelled by alcohol, his is fuelled by revenge for the past I think. He will never stop though because he does not see what he is doing as abuse. When he gets in a mood that’s just “part of life get over it” to him. But when anyone else is grumpy or stressed he hits the roof. It’s like no one else is allowed to have emotions other than him.

[Tiffany]

Mine also talked at length about not being like his father. I don’t really know how different they would have ended up being if I had stayed. His first line was that he’d never hit me. That was how he was different. Then he started hitting me. But he’d never hit me hard enough to bruise. And he’d never hit our kids. Thank god I kept tight control on contraception and we didn’t have kids. And I left before he started properly beating me up. It would have come though. With mine it even came from the same driving force as his father. A fundamental belief that the universe had treated him unfairly. His father was abused by his grandparents too. So glad this won’t be my children’s inheritance.

[likevue]

Hi Indiansummer,

Your words sounded familiar to me too. I’ve spent ages trying to pinpoint when the relationship became abusive, and haven’t yet accepted the logical conclusion that it always was. I for sure didn’t do anything to turn a decent man into a monster, so what other explanation can there be? Sure, everyone can say and do hurtful things on impulse during a heated argument, but going too far and/or not showing any/genuine acknowledgement or remorse is a whole different thing.

I came across an article recently, where both the victim, the abuser and some of their friends had been interviewed. The abuser said he couldn’t recall most of the incidents, but, crucially, added that even if he did do all those things, he didn’t think it added up to abuse. I thought it was a very interesting read and described exactly my experiences of that aspect of abuse. If you want to look it up, it’s from an online magazine The Atlantic and the name is A Diary of Toxic Love. It’s not a scientific publication, of course, but for me it felt insightful.

[Rockandrolldreamscomethrough]

Tiffany, that’s exactly what mine says. When I tell him he’s being horrible and to stop, he replies well I never hit you, some men hit their girlfriends so you’re lucky. He thinks because it’s not physical then it’s not abuse. Again, like yours he thinks the world has done him a wrong and that it owes him something back. I am glad you and your kids are safe now x

[Indiansummer]

Hi Likevue,

Thank you, I have found the article and started reading it.

I still find it hard to process a lot of things. My ex still acts like it’s me who is in the wrong and that I broke our marriage vows by leaving him.

I also feel that he constantly twists the events, which leaves me so confused and struggling to make sense of all of it.

Likewise, he claims he doesn’t remember certain things he did and said..

I hope it’ll get easier soon.
X

[Rockandrolldreamscomethrough]

Gosh sorry I’ve replied to the wrong person! Sorry guys, I’m still getting the hang of how this works I’m not great with technology haha x

[Indiansummer]

I think I did the same 🙈 The reply button is somewhat confusing xx

[KIP.]

Google ‘Gaslighting’. Abusers are great at this and it leaves us thinking we are going crazy. The term is based on an old black and white film where the husband tries to drive the wife mad to get her money.

[Alpaca]

Hello everyone.
Going through a quiet period at the moment, but his body language is falsely controlled. Fake smiles and all that. This means something’s brewing.
I didn’t think it was contrived, but I have seen his expression change once someone turns up. Like some of you have said, he seems to forget or deny stuff he has said. Calls me a liar and this gives him another topic to get angry about. His other routine is ‘you call that anger/shouting well I wasn’t before but now you’re making me angry/shout now.’
His ex wife used to say people don’t know what he’s like.

[itwillbeokay]

Hi IndianSummer,

I can relate to what you’re saying so much. My husband acts in the same way. I left with our children a few months ago and try to keep to limited contact. Whenever I have contact he insists that I left over a few arguments, it wasn’t abuse, I’m the lowest of the low and “everyone” thinks I’m despicable. This must be what I had planned all along he says and he hopes I’m happy in my new life. I didn’t plan this, I put up with his dreadful behaviour for years because I hoped there was a happy future for us but it got to the point I just couldn’t stay and I left very suddenly. He is shocked and angry and doesn’t understand why I won’t talk to him. I’m a broken woman by this and very devastated by it all and have just started counselling to try to process it all. His insistence that I planned it and am now so happy further adds to my upset. I too wonder if he was aware quite what his regular bad behaviour did to me and my state of mind when he can so easily dismiss it to a few arguments. He did actually admit he’d been abusive when I first left and he tried, briefly, to get me to go back but now it’s all denial and minimise and further threatening and intimidating behaviour even now I’ve gone. It’s incredibly difficult to get your head around. But I know I won’t ever go back and we are headed for divorce and a life of handing over our children and hoping he doesn’t negatively influence them over the years. It’s frustrating that this is all down to his bad behaviour and yet seemingly he can’t see it or certainly wants to make me feel he can’t anyway.

Much love to you. I totally get how you’re feeling right now and it’s a horrible place to be. I too hope it gets easier xx

[Poodlepower]

Mine would deny it was abuse. He mostly pinned me down, trapped me in rooms, destroyed my possessions, threw threw things, punched around me but didn’t make contact…all of which would terrify me . I would often be sobbing and begging him to stop but it still wasn’t “abuse.” He “wasn’t actually hitting me” I was “in the way” he had to “subdue” me because I was going to ruin our relationship, I was “making a fuss” when he shook me until my head hit the door frame and I cried, he didn’t bite me it was a “kiss” that I mistook for a bite…oh, and outright denial that it ever happened. Anything but admit he was abusing me.
I used to kid myself that he had lost control brcause he was scared to lose me, or it was the fault of his mental illness or his abusive upbringing. He would drag me around outside to stop me walking away from him-several times passers by interviened. Still, it “wasn’t abuse.”

When he was arrested for assaulting me, the police told me he said my bruises were caused my him “fending me off” as I attacked HIM. His biting me was me being “mistaken.” Fortunately, several people had rung in over the previous weeks to report seeing him dragging me by the hair. My parents gave statements about my scratches and bruises and my neighbours made statements about the “vile verbal abuse” they heard. Faced with all this, while on bail he killed himself.
I don’t think he could ever have admitted he was at fault. The evidence against him was about to prove that he was an abuser and he could accept that. That’s my interpretation anyway.

[KIP.]

Hey poodlepower, that’s an awful thing to happen to anyone. My ex used to trap me in rooms. And I too used to think it was because he loved me so much. He was too calculating to bruise me so he used to use his body and stick his elbows out so as not to grab. That’s how calculating he was. No evidence. I often think suicide they see as the ultimate form of control. In their dysfunctional world if they kill themselves, they think you will blame yourself forever and they retain the control that way. I recorded the assault on my phone. (Detail removed by Moderator) he stood up and denied it. So I don’t think it matters how many people provide statements, they can always justify their behaviour to themselves. Although you obviously knew him. It must be really painful but if I’m honest a part of me is jealous. Years after his conviction he continues his abuse of me and it takes a huge toll on my mental health. If I move away then I lose my family, friends and support network. So I choose to stay in my home and have to contend with his nonsense. Onwards and upwards.

[Poodlepower]

Thank you Kip.

I suppose in a way, taking his own life has given me the freedom to have a future, although I don’t believe that was his intention. He often said “when I kill myself, everyone will know it was your fault.” A few days before his death he sent me a message , “gone to kill myself. Thanks for taking such good care of your husband” ( we were never married but he called himself my husband.)
He probably died thinking it was my fault. I’m sure that’s how he wanted me to feel.
Apparently there is a suicide letter. The police have it. I won’t be reading it, I can imagine it’s his last “this is all your fault” declairation and I won’t allow him to manipulate and control me any more.
I never would have wanted it this way, but I’m free.

[KIP.]

You have a great outlook. Yes they blame us for everything. If we carry the guilt then they don’t have to. When I caught my ex cheating he actually said it was my fault that I just wouldn’t listen. That he tried to tell me four or five times but I just wouldn’t listen. Dysfunctional nonsense. Onwards and upwards x

[Poodlepower]

Indeed 🙂 x*x

[maddog]

It is really interesting to read that an abuser’s behaviour is seen as normal to them. The sense of entitlement, the sense of blaming someone else. The abject denial… They do not see themselves as abusers. They see themselves as perfect.
When my ex rails against people, I have to wonder if he is not talking about himself.

[Poodlepower]

My ex would twist everything to put himself in the position of “abused.” He often twisted my words to make me sound like a horrible person. I once said “can we report your dad to the police? It might be a way of dealing with your rapes that gives you some power back.” He reinterpreted this as me saying I would have been a “better” rape victim than him and he repeated this none sense many times when in a rage.
He would rage constantly about people who had it “easier” than him- people who had had the opportunity to go to university for example. I tried to support him into an OU course, but soon realised he wasn’t interested. He just wanted to feel the anger at missed opportunities that were everybody else’s fault.
In every scenario, he twisted things until he could portray himself as the victim. When I pointed this out to him, he screamed at me “are you saying I enjoyed being raped??” There really was no reasoning with him. He wasn’t able to take adult responsibility fir himself at all.

[maddog]

You are so right, Poodlepower, there is no reasoning with these people. My ex used to tell me to stop twisting things round. Basically telling me to shut up as he was the victim in all of this. There is no point in trying to communicate with these people, perhaps apart from to discuss the weather. Even then we will be in the wrong. The self-justification is worrying. It’s really weird. My ex has no photos of his children. He has only photographs of himself.

[Poodlepower]

Yes, it’s a very “self centred” view of the world that they have. I think they can fake empathy, but not really feel it. Although with mine, I can understand how his terrible, abusive upbringing left him without the ability to care for others-it was all about self preservation and protecting himself, and I can see how that could happen. It was as if the abuse he suffered mean he could NEVER be in the wrong. I remember once we were having a discussion – he was getting angry but I was standing my ground…suddenly he stared screaming ” I was raped!” Then rolled me into my stomach and used my own hand to punch me right on my bottom hole. He was screaming that “this is what it feels like!” Then rolled me over and used my own hand to hit himself on the face, over and over. It was pretty scary, all I could do was go limp until it was over.
We weren’t talking about anything to do with his abuse. It was as if he could never be wrong or criticised because he was a victim in all scenarios.

[maddog]

My ex explained again and again and again how perfect his childhood was. I thought so often that there was something missing. I still don’t know what it is. I know he was groped by a youth group leader. He passed it off as nothing, just a blip.

There were red flags at the beginning with his attitude towards women, largely in his family and without any real insight.

I have passed him on, I hope to the right place.

[itwillbeokay]

My husband used to vaguely mention an incident/incidences with a monk/priest at the boys school he went to, his Mum had to go in and “have a word” about whatever had gone on but basically leave my son alone. I wonder if there’s anything in that. Although I do spend my life at the moment diagnosing him or thinking of excuses for him so…

[Poodlepower]

It’s hard not to go over and over the “whys?” I can’t understand why mine had to be abusive when stopping that behaviour would have kept us together. Thinking about it inevitably leads me to believe he liked it, or it fulfilled some need in him, some desire for dominance or power maybe. I asked him once why? He said ” I had to take power back.” Probably the most honest answer he ever gave me.
Once, he pinned me down violently to stop me goi g to work, cutting my face with his nails where he clamped his hand over my mouth to stop me screaming. He finally lay down in front of the door, screaming. The back food wasn’t locked so I was able to escape and get myself to work. Almost immediately he was emailing me, telling me I had let his cat escape when I opened the door and he was “crying hysterically” because she was missing and it was “all my failt.” He was lying, I could tell, but it was the best he could come up with to make himself the victim and me the horrible one.
Later, he would claim he’d had to pin me down because I was reaching for a knife. Total nonsense, but his way of trying to get me to misremember.
A simple “im sorry Love, I need help, please forgive me.” Was beyond him.

[Author]

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