Ex is exerting toxic behaviour onto daughter

[Thequickbrownfox21]

My ex husband left the family home after I said I wanted to separate, I am happy he’s gone as it was a toxic relationship and I’d fell out of love with him a long time ago.
He was never a great father, I did everything for the house and children. He would much rather watch football on the tele than play with the kids. He rarely took them out and thought that money solved everything.
Since moving out he has demanded all sorts of things but my main questions to ask are to do with my young daughter, she is my main worry. My son is too young to understand and barely even knows his daddy and isn’t bothered when he comes to visit. My daughter on the other hand is being used as a pawn and I dont know if I have any power to stop it. She comes home from seeing him and tells me that daddy tells her things that shes not to tell mummy. He has made promises to her and already broken them causing her upset and distress. She has refused to see him twice now because of this. She came home once and got upset as daddy had told her not to tell me he’d bought her a mobile phone. She felt she had to tell me but I could tell she was extremely worried about it. A mobile at that age for goodness sake! I got angry and told her theres no way shes having a phone. She said she didn’t want it anyway but that’s not the point.
I’d also told her some time ago that I was going to take her to (detail removed by moderator) which she was excited about. She came home after seeing him and said that daddy was now taking her before I get the chance too.
He even got her to help him move some of his stuff out of the house, I was powerless to stop her as she wanted to help daddy but surely this is wrong on so many levels?!
He still says sarcastic comments regarding me to her when im within earshot, I dont care as they go in one ear and out then other but they are damaging to her surely.
Is there anyway of intervening with his toxic behaviour towards my daughter?
I’ve been keeping a diary over the past few weeks of times when he’s said the sorts of things that are, in my eyes, damaging to a little girl and of his nasty behaviour towards me still which has on many occasion also caused my daughter distress and upset. I’m worried about her mental health, I’ve even contacted my GP for advice.
Has anyone got advice for me or been in a similar position?
Thank you in advance x

[fizzylem]

Hey, yes this is dreadful and needs to stop. Some women stop contact and let him take them to court then argue their case with evidence for supervised contact. You can get legal aid when this happens if you are on a low income and there’s domestic abuse; have you ever told the GP about the DA? He/she just needs to supply a letter, think mine cost me a £10 admin charge.

Take your time and find a good family law solictor, go and see a few. I asked around to find out which family law firms have a good reputation first as I knew someone that worked in family court. Make sure the solictor understands the dynamics in domestic abuse. They tend to take the view this is a dispute not abuse, so make sure you find one that sees it for waht it is. Do this now whether you decide to use them or not so it’s lined up if you need it as it can take some time. You can get a free initial consultaion with most solictors. Cant emphasise enough that you find the right one for you, choose wisely, once you’ve seen a few you will start to learn what it is you are looking for / need.

You can also call Rights for women too for free legal advise.

You might want to start the procedings off yourself, but you’re not obliged to do so, it falls to him if he is not happy with the access arrangement. As you are primary carer it has to feel right for you and he will need to fall in.

Or could you set up third party communications and supervised access yourself with a family member now? Providing you feel ok about this of course. Could you explain what is happening and that support and encouragement is needed regarding how he needs to behave when around the children?

Getting your daughter to help him move out was a manipulative tactic wasn’t it to get her to feel sorry for daddy, look what mummy’s doing. Alienation really does mess with their heads, but sadly is not taken as seriously by the authorities as it should be but dont let that deter you in going for how you think it needs to be for them. You need to make sure you get evidence and present this in court to get the supervised access made official. Orders are made just like this that outline how he is expected to behave in their presence.

Don’t underestimate the power in your relationship too of course, if the children are getting their needs met then they will listen to mum. It does get complex though very quickly. Be sure not to blame dad which it sounds like you get totally, empathise with them only but you can also talk about difficulties in general terms and say things like this is what I would do in that sitaution etc when this is an appropriate response or maybe just ask questions to help them explore the discussion – e.g. what do you think about that? What do you think needs to happen here? My child saw a counsellor a few times as well to help. Encourage talking, but dont ask them too much about what is going on at dads, only talk about things when they bring it up – always try to rmeain positive, if they say something that hits better to say nothing. Like you are doing document everythng they say and when. Keep in touch with the GP. Record their behaviour. Keep it all factutal and verbatim.

I really think the only thing that can be done is to get a court order that outlines how he is expected to behave, then if he carries on it is unlawful.

My ex has done exactly the same, it’s horrifying isn’t it. You can see so clearly how it messes with their heads. He is disabling you as their helper, making the children vulnerable and unable to access the help they need, the person they need most in the world is you and in the process this also creates challenging behaviour for you to deal with. Anger problems develop for the child, it places them in the middle, so it is burdensome – it basically robs them of being free to be a child – have a normal life. I feel strongly about this subject as you can see; because I know first hand how damaging it is, it hinders their development and robs them of a childhood – its abuse. Some women on here have lost their children as their kids have sided with dad – owing to him manipulating them – so please do act.

If I had my time again I can see that what I should have done is pull her out straight away and let him take me to court for his access, put a stop to it straight away, what you need to be mindful of is that things move very slowly in family court, if you or he filed today it could be 3 months until the first hearing, and the process could go on for 6 months or longer if neither of you agree a way forwards, so that is around a year in your children’s development, a long time isnt it and time for a lot of damage to occur.

You say your son isn’t that fussed about seeing him, and your daughter has also said a few times she doesn’t want to go, maybe the next time she says this you could support this? Would she be happier and satisfied with seeing him at her grandparents house for a bit when she changes her mind again? As it’s likely she will say she wants to see him again at some point. What do you think she would be happy with? Once a fortnight for an afternoon? Have think about what you think is manageble, what needs to happen / how it could look and what she would feel is enough – then try to get this in place. If he doesnt behave this way when with her grand parents then chances are she would prefer this kind of time with dad hey.

The courts dont look favourably on stopping contact and he will get access if he applies, so work on your case for supervised access only – make is strong. Read the Safe not sorry doc. that’s a good one and there’s some good stuff in When dad hurts mom by bancroft; a list of alienation tactics.

Chances are it wont stop until you stop it; it’s one of those dreadful situations for all of you, a situation where mum will have to take the brunt of it in the home and in court. The court will take the view they have right to a relationship, so be mindful they put this as a priority above the alienation; but they will also view your evidence and chances are they may well agree that supervised access is needed. Its not just all about what he wants, they will hear both sides – the evidence only mind, not what he says she says.

I was scared of going to court for a long time as I knew the law is on his side in many ways; big mistake; what I should have done is dealt with it straight way and pushed for the outcome I felt my child needed xx

[Lisa]

Hi Thequickbrownfox21

Welcome to the forum. Child contact is often a major struggle with an abuser and it sounds like he is trying to manipulate your daughter. You are doing the right thing by keeping a diary, try and write down word for word things your daughter says which concern you in regards to contact with her dad and time and date them.

If you haven’t already i would suggest contacting your local domestic abuse service as they may have a support service for children and young people. You should also be able to get some initial free legal advice to look at your options if you wanted to formalise the contact using a court order.

Take care and keep posting

Lisa

[FreeFromHim]

Hi all

So agree with the responses… this person should not use your daughter.

I learnt during therapy that there are 2 types of love going on in abusive relationships – ‘usually’ from the mother/wife/partner is ‘unconditional’ love… the abuser only knows ‘conditional’ love… love on a condition is not love…therefore it is your absolute duty to protect your children. Its pathological and cunning and what he is doing is further exploitation to exert his control and power to hurt you .. via the children… sadly, that is all these types of people are interested in…

If your little one is coming back and unable to share her time freely then there is something totally wrong here… you know your baby… use your intuition and seek advice immediately. Stop direct contact!

Abusers will use the courts, they will use the system, you just stick to your guns and speak the truth. If your daughter is old enough, in a court environment, she can also provide her wishes … however, perhaps supervised access by ways via solicitors is a first port of call and then seek family court for an order… its testing.. but you have your babies interests as a priority… in the interim suggest indirect contact (letters/cards etc), just so it shows that you are not taking away her relationship, just that you are needing to establish if the contact your children are having are 100% safe, psychologically and otherwise… this way you can visibly see how committed he may be…not just playing games…

Keep Strong and Good luck x

[diymum@1]

ive recently read when dad hurts mum by the good mr bancroft and wow what a revalation! this book is exactly how this has played out for us;

heres something that rings very true in many cases;

-persuading the children that you are to blame for the separation.
-having the children transmit messages to you.
-pumping them for information about your current living situation,your finances,or your new partners.
-returning them dirty,unfed,or emotionally distraught from visits.
-frequently buying them presents or taking them on exspensive outings,to buy their affection and loyalty.
-turning the children against you through verbal conditioning and manipulation.
-undermining your parenting by making his home a place with no rules,structure,or safety precautions.
-having specail toys or pets at his house that they cannot bring home, so they have to go to his house to enjoy them.
-making the children feel sorry for him about the separation,such as telling them he crys when theyre not there,so they will feel obligated to spend more time with him.
-taking them for visits and returning them late,or not returning them at all for days or even weeks.
-not calling them or spending time with them at all, especially if he is angry at you about something.
-not paying child support,underpaying,or paying late.
-causing you and the children to become homeless by not contributing financially,by getting you evicted, or by forcing the sale of your home.
-threatening all kinds of harm if you let your children to get to know your new partner.
-destroying their relationships with therapist or other proffesionals through manipulation.
-dragging you into court repeatedly regarding visitation.
seeking custody of the children through court or threatening to do so.
-kidnapping the children or threatening to do so.
-abusing the children through visitation, especially when he is angry at you.
-filing unwaranted child abuse reports.
-promising to see the children then cancelling at the last minite,in an effort to control your schedule/free time.

i could tick most of these examples, its helpful to see this in black and white- its liberating to see this is a pattern of behavior that is inherent – i can feel the blame shifting of my shoulders in to thin air right now! love diymum xxxx

[diymum@1]

thought id add this when you see it in black and white these men are very transparent in their actions xx

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