I cannot work out what to think anymore

[futurehope]

Hi everyone, I’ve been reading the forum for a while hoping to get some insight. Thank you to all who have been sharing their experiences- it really helps.

Firstly, I feel uncomfortable being here because I just don’t know if what I am experiencing is abusive, a toxic relationship, bad temper or just him being an a*****e. I’m really here to get clarity but I realise that by posting the question here I’m kind of setting it up so that it will be answered in the affirmative. I don’t know. Your views are so welcome. Here goes.. the issues:

He gets disproportionately angry at things, domestic things – I mean the intensity of anger as well as how long it lasts is disproportionate. I don’t mean physically angry just really, really narky. This is against a background of me doing the majority of child care as well as me being the sole breadwinner. So, sometimes things are not left perfectly when I am struggling to get everything done.

When I snap back at his snapping (over domestic things) arguments quickly intensify and will NEVER de-escalate unless I apologise. He will apologise sometimes but only if I also apologise. Sure, I think it’s ok to get irritated at someone over domestic things but the quality of the anger is somehow creepy – it’s anxious and perfectionist. It doesn’t feel like a casual, soon-forgotten irritation. I find I have to apologise for not putting x like so. Like really apologise – I couldn’t just say ‘ok, sure’

When stressful situations arise (as they do with having a young child) he will bring up the domestic things and I feel ‘really? You’re saying that right at this moment’. If I say that out loud there will be an escalation.

If I get angry at anything or show my ‘angry face’ there is an escalation. By escalations I mean I will snap back or dispute the complaint (sometimes childishly I admit) and then there will be statements from him like ‘(detail removed by moderator)’ or ‘(detail removed by moderator)’. If I don’t back down at this point the arguments may end up with him punching the (detail removed by moderator) or throwing something to the floor. He’s stormed off a few times after one of these and left me with my child, wondering if he’ll come back. I’ll then, once he’s back, get statements like ‘(detail removed by moderator)’. Once, he left the house after one such argument to meet someone for sex in order to ‘feel (detail removed by moderator)’. I have the feeling that the start of these arguments could be manageable if I back down enough or soon enough but there is always the threat of these big blow outs. It takes two to tango I know but I never threaten family break up or get quite so angry as him ( I think!)

Lately I’ve tended to back down in arguments so as not to ‘escalate’ although it pains me at times. It irks me so much that I do so much of the domestic work and caring and he criticises over the smallest detail.

Yet, I try not to explode now. I also notice that I work so ***king hard to have all the cooking, cleaning done (to standard)as well as earning the living for the family. I work this hard to avoid being scolded – told off like a naughty child. To be clear, it’s not as if the ‘standard’ of domestic stuff is extreme – I’m not talking about making the labels of food line up- but if the standard is not met, there is a comment or a loud huffing or swearing or scolding.

I also get a lot of snapping and bad tempered comments. As far as I see these are unprovoked. This happens if he is ‘(detail removed by moderator) annoyed’ – moody and irritable. I can sense he is one of these moods the second he wakes up.

Result of all this – I close up; avoid confrontation; work extra hard on domestic things. I’m exhausted. Under massive pressure also to pay all the bills. When I get depressed and moody myself because I can’t take it, I’m told I am ‘(detail removed by moderator)’ and, again, ‘I won’t take this kind of relationship’. So I have to pretend everything is ok with me when it’s not. I wake up every morning thinking about killing myself. I told him this – after he told me he wanted to commit suicide also. His response was not ‘oh no poor you’ it was ‘make sure you don’t xyz when you do’ (btw I did express concern for his suicidal
Thoughts). Anyway, there are so many things but it is hard to remember when we’re on an uptick. Please be honest, is this abuse or just assholeness of the normal kind?
Thank you so much strong women.

[Needtoclarify]

Hi Futurehope

Welcome to the forum. I hope you’re doing as best you can. Given what I’ve read, I feel like you’re living in such a hostile environment and no matter how hard you try to please, it’s always not good enough and affecting your self worth – sadly to hear to a point where you feel suicidal.

So you’re trying to keep it all together, trying to communicate your feelings and how his actions have been affecting you and as a result, you don’t get any understanding, any love or any support. You’ve been met with threats when you challenge his behaviour. Punching (detail removed by moderator) and throwing things is very aggressive and threatening behaviour. When you don’t comply, he’ll gaslight you and emotionally abuse you, so in short, yes I do think this is abuse.

How can you feel secure with a partner who has no regard for your feelings? Who betrays through infidelity and threatens to leave you. If he did leave, my guess is your life and home with your child would be a lot happier, balanced and stress free. As a matter of fact, what does he actually contribute?

It could be the case he resents you, maybe feeling a little useless and realises you could actually go it on your own and for this very reason picks you apart and knocks your confidence. Look up gaslighting.

Be careful, put up with this for too long it may no longer be the sofa and you’ll doubt yourself, blame yourself and lose yourself completely.

Well done for identifying this, don’t let him bully you into submission. Partnerships should be equal and there’s no consideration for your happiness or what you’re getting in terms of love and support from him. X

[Eyesopening]

I agree with everything Needtoclarify has said. We really do become conditioned and blind when we are in the situation ourselves. But looking from the outside, this relationship sounds horrible. I have always been told, it doesnt need to be labelled abusive to call time on a relationship. But knowing it is abusive can really help you make sense of things. Makes you understand why he does what he does, understand his tactics, and understand why you are feeling the way you feel. I think ‘Why does he do that’ by Lundy Buncroft will be very eyeopening for you to read. Its free to read online.
Do some more research and start to really see what he is doing as control tactics. Things will start making sense. You can never win an argument with an abuser, they have to be right. Thats why you have to apologise.
My ex was the same, I provided, I cooked, cleaned, everything, he didn’t lift a finger. My feelings and emotions were dismissed, he was financialy abusive, sexually, emtionally & psychologically abusive ..
the more you look into this, the more tactics you will see emerge. Keep a diary aswell as we tend to forget the worst things. xx

[nbumblebee]

Hey, I agree with what the others have said. I will not accept or use the word abuse.
My husband is an a******e.
Whatever anyone calls it if you are unhappy exhauseted unsupported picked on made to feel worthless unhappy scared then you are in a toxic and horrible relationship and deserve better. Its tough to hear even tougher to believe and almost impossible to accept.
Dont worry about labels I hate these so so much, have a read on here at some posts, read some things online about emotional abuse arm yourself with some knowledge I once read something once I think it was a video i am hoping one of the more clever ladies will be able to pop a link up for you but it showed a clip of a “normal” relationship and a lets say “married to an a******e” one i think it was something to do with the freedom program? Anyway you will see the difference it shocked me to be honest.
Keep talking thats the most important bit talk this through is there anyone you can trust to share your concerns too?
Take care and stay safe x

[futurehope]

Thank you so much to all three of you for your replies.. taking so much time and thought to help me out. It is (sadly) reassuring to hear your views and confirming my worse fears.

I have read Lundy and, worse, I’m actually a (detail removed by moderator) but stil I can’t see it for what I suspect it is. When I read Lundy I was a bit worried that my ‘level’ of abuse was not as severe as the examples he gave or maybe it was because I couldn’t imagine that what goes through my husband’s mind is as selfish and manipulative as he describes his ‘clients’ to think. Nbumblebee- I agree that labels are difficult because they don’t fit all the behaviours all the time. We have had some wonderful moments in our lives together and it is hard to reconcile this with the abuse label. I guess at the end of it all, the extreme selfishness is at the root of my problem with him. We can all be selfish but when it means he is at the centre of the universe this translates as unfair and disrespectful behaviour= abuse? I guess so. Also the thing about not being able to leave and making excuses for something to would not accept for anyone else is a sign.

Does anyone else, though, have the feeling of not wanting to destroy them? Because I earn the money he would be I guess destitute if I ended it. Can I really do that to someone? What have your experiences been?

I’m going to look up that video too.

Thanks again from the bottom of my heart.

[nbumblebee]

Ive not left im still here over (detail removed by moderator) now. Its been about a year since i came here looking like you for someone to say yes it is or it isnt. I still fight it and wont believe it.
Leaving has never been an option in my eyes I am too scared.

As for not wanting to hurt him, do you think he thinks twice when he is hurting you? I dont think he does no. You say you are the one who earns well he can go out and earn, its a choice he makes as an adult, if he is physically unable to work then there is help out there but he is an adult he can sort that himself how he lives his life is not your responcibility. You need to look out for you your children he is an adult and chooses to hurt you through words or whatever he chooses freely to do that. You owe him nothing. Dont let that be your reason to stay. X

[futurehope]

Thanks numblebee- what keeps you from leaving? What keeps you from accepting it is abusive?

For me it’s because it never really tops over into direct insults (well except in an argument I’ve been told horrible things like nonone will have me or I’m dead inside). Things I’d never say to someone. I’ve called him an a*****e but nothing less abstract. There is no physical violence except punching objects and stabbing fingers in my face.

[nbumblebee]

Nobody has asked me that before and actually I cant answer it.
My husband isnt nice calls me names has hit me way back in the past though, he uses sex as a weapon doesnt like the word no. I cant go out unless i do what he wants first if you get me, so i never go out i have no friends other than our shared friends.
He never allowed me to work now i do i am fighting back but he does all he can to stop me and i am not allowed to talk about my day at all. He moans shouts throws things and has at times thretens me but he can also be kind loving works hard and i have a pleasant life well as pleasant as it can be. Ive not had the best past and i dont have much if any confidence. Leaving has just never been an option i dont know why I honestly dont.
However ladies on here my goodness so many of them have left do leave and they thrive they live and they live happy.
Listen to wantstohelp she is amazing if you want to live really live then you cant live, and shouldnt live with a man that doesnt support you show you respect help encourage and truely love you. Its not living its surviving thats not a life. X

[Wants To Help]

Hi futurehope,

All couples argue and have disagreements from time to time and often, names will be called in the heat of the moment. We’d all be unrealistic to think that even the most non abusive relationships do not have moments of insults or hurtful comments in them, but what you describe goes beyond that. Whatever word you choose to describe your relationship, is ‘healthy’ one of them? How about ‘equal’ ‘supportive’ ‘understanding’ ? Does your partner nurture you and encourage you to succeed in your dreams, your career, or does he see your success in life as a threat; something that will steal you away from him and distract you from him?

You have become numb to his behaviour and the lines have become blurred to what is acceptable and what is not. If you had friends or relatives over to your house and one of them disagreed with something and damaged the furniture in reaction would you find that normal and okay? If you went to a shop and had a disagreement with a manager over a return of an item and he stabbed his fingers in your face would you consider that an assault, or an acceptable way for a manager to behave if he disagreed with you? As abused women in love, we tend to put up with behaviours from our intimate partners that we would be appalled by if strangers or friends treated us the same way. This is probably something to do with the chemistry and hormones in our bodies that go with intimate relationships, but at the end of the day, it’s not right is it?

Your partner is behaving like a child having a tantrum, no wonder you are exhausted, you are parenting two people here not one. No wonder you’re struggling with your MH, and I can tell you now that it won’t improve while you stay living like this. Does this man actually bring any positives to your relationship or are you just clinging to the hope that one day he may do if you keep working harder and harder to please him, or just working hard to keep the peace? It sounds to me like you will be able to thrive perfectly well without him in your life but he would struggle without you.

You don’t have to destroy him if you leave him. Emotionally, how he reacts with his feelings is out of your control anyway, but what you don’t have to do is deliberately do things to make his life worse (which is what most of our abusers intend to do to us). So, for example, if you can afford to you could offer to pay his rent and bond for the first ‘x’ amount of months on a rental property so that he has somewhere to live, then he could get himself sorted for any benefits he may be able to claim or he could apply for a job. You could allow him to take some furniture from the house to put in a new place if it is unfurnished. What I’m saying is, you would be fair to him in whatever way is in your nature, however, it is unlikely he will see any of these things as being fair, he’ll see them as an insult and will be more likely to try and destroy you instead.

I also worked with victims of abuse and for a long time I compared my abuse to theirs, and like you, I minimised it. I dealt with ladies who had very serious injuries, attempted murders, murdered, whereas I was ‘just’ insulted, shouted at, controlled, isolated from friends, occasionally shoved or pinned down but nothing that left any marks initially. In my mind, I wasn’t an abused woman, I just had a ‘s****y relationship’, but it just got worse over time.

Over the years since I left I have continued to educate myself with things such as a healthy relationship v an unhealthy relationship. I now see the red flags that were there from the start, but instead of seeing them as red flags I saw them as ‘bless him, he’s been hurt in the past’, ‘bless him, he needs to be assured that he can trust me’, ‘bless him, I can make him feel good about himself’. All of his insecurities he took out on me and destroyed my own sense of self worth and confidence in the process. Everything he told me he loved about me at the start he started to despise about me and make me embarrassed about it. In the end, I became someone I wasn’t, I became the ‘zombie’ that many women on here have described themselves as – a woman that just goes through the motions of existing because she’s lost who she is along the way of trying to make someone happy who will never be happy.

Having read your opening post, the only way you have of future hope is to find the strength to leave this man and go it alone. The longer you stay with him the worse your life will get.

I hope you stay on the forum and find this useful to you in ways of receiving and offering support and advice. There are many ladies on here who never thought they would leave but are now posting their success stories.

xx

[futurehope]

thanks again everyone. It is so reassuring to hear supportive words. I am still wracked with doubt. I remember all the good times, it’s as if they are different people – the man in the good times and in the bad. But, as life goes on, good times seem to get fewer and bad times more frequent. We need someone who will be our partner in life, an equal one. I don’t have that I know. I have to work out just how bad it really is before depriving a child of their father.

You’re right wantstohelp.. i would not accept this behaviour from anyone else. I ask myself, would i act like this? The answer is no.

Nbumblebee – i am really worried about you. The fact that you can’t even consider a life without him means you must be so unconfident in yourself and your resilience. But you are on this forum.. you know deep down that you deserve more and, I imagine, you are starting to dream of a life without him? Am i right? Can you focus on what this dream looks like? Think about it as much as you can. Imagine a life where you can do the **ck you want whenever you want. Imagine how you would decorate, start to make friends.. if you can imagine it, it can start to become true. Then you can take the small steps toward that goal. You might surprise yourself and find it’s a lot easier for you than you think. Of course, do it safely and get advice from Women’s Aid but please, allow yourself to dream in this way. Do you fantasise about him leaving you ever? I am starting to do this and I did this with a previous abusive relationship (yes, I’m afraid i must be a magnet to these types of men). If you do have this fantasy, it suggests you really know that you want a life without him. Explore this with yourself.

Eyesopening – I really noted your similar experience to mine – the unfair distribution of labour (combined with criticism?). I always had the feeling ‘well this is how feminism failed and men are just s*it like that’ but my family have all noticed how bad the inequality is so it must be more than the average lazy man thing/entitlement that is, unfortunately, all too common. How did it roll with you? Did you ask him to do more? I think i have delicately approached the subject but quickly retreated when i sensed an argument coming.

[nbumblebee]

Being totally honest. No ive never imagined a life without him theres no point.
But its not all bad so please dont worry its ok at times i survive and i know i am luckier than alot of others and i am grateful each and every day for what i have, im now working and learning and trying hard to improve myself yes i have to fight each and every day but its my fault I choose to stay.
You need to take yohr knowledge now and apply it to your own life sweetie you know things arent right and whatever it is called you deserve to feel loved and supported in a marriage or relationship you found us here for a reason too. X*x

[Eggshells]

Hi futurehope

Welcome to the forum.

I’m afraid I haven’t had chance to read all the responses so please forgive me if I’m repeating what others have said.

I understand your concern that by posting on here you might receive a bias so I read your post with that in mind. Despite that, from the moment I read that you are the sole breadwinner and do all the childcare, alarm bells were ringing.

Relationships should be equal, agreeable and acceptable to both partners. If you feel compelled to behave in a way you don’t want to because you fear his response then yes, that is abuse.

I continued to read on. Punching things is about making sure you know he is angry. It’s designed to make you fear his anger (a very thinly veiled threat) to ensure that you comply next time.

I’m sure others have already recommended them but “Why does he do that?” by Lundy Bancroft will help you to understand the very deliberate nature of abuse. He’s not loosing control, it’s very much the opposite. His behaviouris deliberate and orchestrated to make you fearful. “Living with the Dominator” by Pat Craven describes what abusive behaviours look like and you might discover that you are exposed to more abusive behaviour than you realise. They are both worth a read.

[tiredofitall]

Hi
Everyone has offered such great advice and I’ve found reading other people’s experiences helped me realise that he isn’t just going to change because I want him to. I felt for a long time that he behaves in the way he does because he has his own issues. He is an addict, has low self esteem which he covers by needing control, he is so fragile he cannot accept any responsibility for his behaviour and can’t take charge of anything so I’ve been doing everything and that’s never enough. I have to think everything decision through thoroughly (including when to put washing out) as I know I’ll have to justify it as I’m likely to be criticised for whatever choice I make. He can’t keep a job so I’ve been the sole consistent provider. What the experiences on here have helped me realise though is that none of the reasons why are enough to justify treating me the way he does. He chooses to. And now I’ve chosen that I don’t want my future to be like that and started divorce and house sale. We are still living together as his name is on the mortgage and it is hell. Mist days he spends telling me I’m rushing him, I’m going to make him homeless, I’m selfish, I’m obsessed with money, I’ve turned the children against him. All if which is incredibly upsetting and hurtful. But he has not actually done anything to stop the process taking place yet. So I just keep going one day at a time thinking that in 2 or 3 months I’ll hopefully be free. And how will that feel after all of these years holding his views and feelings above my own? Sending you all the support you need to make the choices you need to at the right time. Only you will know when. I wasn’t strong enough until now. I wish I had been but I didn’t have it in me to hold steady like I am now so don’t feel bad if you don’t feel ready too. x

[futurehope]

Hi Tiredofitall, what a nightmare time you are in at the moment.I’m so sorry but also hopeful for you. well done for making the decision. You must feel relief now for having taken the step? Was there anything that tipped you over? It’s so weird when the pennies start dropping and you start to see things differently. All your memories are seen again with a different lens.

NBumblebee – I feel so proud of you that you’re starting to do things for yourself – working and learning. I have hope that you’ll start to build faith in yourself to be free of a person who is holding back your happiness. I guess we are both in the process of awakening. It’s a long road. Courage my friends.

[futurehope]

Eggshells- thank you too! I suppose I’ve never looked at the problem and in terms of ‘what relationship would I like?’ It’s always been, ‘what s**t am I prepared to tolerate’? But actually, looking at pat raven’s book too – anything less than ‘equal, respectful’ could be seen as abusive. If it’s systematically unequal and disrespectful. I mean, they are a minimum, right? I have never dreamed to expect those things before.

[futurehope]

Ps, tiredofitall- I also have the same feeling you say- worrying about every tiny weeny decision. Should I put dishwasher on now or later? Is it sufficiently full or not (not in my opinion but in my estimate of what he would think). Also, if I don’t quite hear him right when he says something, do I pretend to have heard to avoid getting told off for not listening (but also risk getting ‘caught’ doing that) or ask him to repeat? Don’t want to get told off! FFS!

[Hereforhelp]

Hi futurehope, what you have just described is the walking on eggshells feeling… the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt cycle of abuse is very strong.. have you looked up coming out the FOG?). I am out of it now…. it takes a lot to make that leap of faith and trust in yourself, really trust your gut and nit his words ❤️

[futurehope]

Hi, I saw something about FOG and forgot again. I’m going to look it up now.
Thank you!

[futurehope]

Hi again all – I’m suddenly getting paranoid that he will claim I am crazy (I had a horrible time after my baby was born – not diagnosed as post natal depression but it must have been close). He’s often told me I’m (detail removed by Moderator) when I express concern for my baby in doctor’s etc. I am pretty hyper vigilant when it comes to my baby. I would not put it past him to claim I am crazy so he can gain full custody in order to keep the house (that I paid for all myself). Any advice?

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