Is it possible to get out of this feeling like a good mother?

[Agapantha]

Really struggle with what has just happened.

My ex texted me (detail removed by moderator) to remind me what time he was picking up the kids (detail removed by moderator). I texted back asking him to confirm that he was returning them as per our normal arrangement.
He said no he wasn’t.
I asked what he intended and he went silent till this morning (detail removed)

I had made plans with the kids for Easter weekend and now he had a list of reasons why they should be with him. In the end I caved and allowed him to delay there return to me by a day as a compromise.
When the kids woke up and when I told them the change they were really disappointed and crestfallen and confused and wanted to know why???

What do I say??? (Don’t bring your kids into a disagreement between you and your ex- ever is the advice- But honestly I have no idea how to explain it without doing so).

I ended up saying that their Dad had his reasons for asking and that I thought his reasons where not unreasonable( even though I do think they were just a construction of righteous indignations that he built up in order to get what he wanted). Is that not bringing them into it whilst explaining it??? What should I have said or done???

I feel like I have really let them down, shown that I cannot stand up to their Dad, that I agree with his last minute changes and find them reasonable. And when I talked through the changes with them to put them in perspective (only 1 day), I realised that because he had changed their return time to mine form 9 till 4 he had in effect gained 2 days not 1. I hadn’t quite realised that when I agreed because I felt under so much pressure to amicably resolve things and minutes not hours to do this in.

After me talking about how resonable thier Dad was in this change they then went on to say yes its very reasonable of him to want half his time with us I hope that is what the court decides!!! What am I meant to say and do??? I said my usual mantra- me and dad both want what is best for you becasue we love you so much but we just disagree about what that is. What do you want mum they said? If I tell them I am leading them and putting them into a position but i told them I want you more during school time so I can help you with school. I then went on to say you will have GCSEs and A levels and I would like you here in school time to support you. I appreciate this is wrong and I have never said this beofre, but I just felt utterly stressed and didnt know what to say and it came out. Do peole realise how much pressure you feel to provide valid explanations to bright and inteligent kids who really want to know. Obviously I normally have my mantra, I think it was that somehow I had inadvertantly ended up presenting thier dads side and so the kids where like if mum agrees with dad and go along with it everyone is happy, so I am happy with that.

I can’t tell them and would never tell them that there Dad has so many strong opinions and so many strong opinions about anyone that has diferent opinions to him that they are probably unable to think about what they want without a picture of there dads response to them wanting something diferent to him looming largely in their mind( this has happened disastrously in the past).

And now I have gone and told them what i want( more school time), because at that momment it came out becuase there is no balance. No one representling a range of options that they could consider. Only there dad saying this is not fair and me agreeing in order to stop striffe because I have been told over and over again by so many people to keep striffe to a minimum.

And this is by far the first time he initiated something like this. This is the pattern?

1) He is about to pick them up as arranged.
2) Knowing him, I ask him to confirm he will bring them back per our arrangement.
3) It tells me no, instead he will take more time than that or will not say when he is planning to return them at all.
5) He moves on to make some irrelevant and accusatory statements that he knows I disagree with in order to sidetrack me away from the matter in hand.(If I don;t engage with his sidetrack he will later take that I have accepted the sidetracking statements as fact).
6) He might then include some mild insults, but so mild as to not be on the radar for abuse or to skate up to the boundary, eg you are unbelievable/spiteful/ disgusting/ vile/.

4) It takes up the time till we are at what seems like the the very last minute so I can’t think straight or discuss further with him the matter in hand and leaves me with the choice of
A) Not handing them over at the time I agreed, inciting his wrath and making me look bad/unreasonable in front of kids
B) Handing them over not knowing when they will be coming back or with him saying they are coming back at a time to what I thought we had agreed as so therefore had told the children.
(detail removed by moderator)

On the other hand, People have also been absolutely baffled as to why I have considered what we have experienced as domestic violence.

Please can the world provide some consistency. It is doing my head in. I don’t think women would be so confused about ‘is it abuse’ if the world wasn’t so confused about it.

I have heard that the court frowns on people contacting social services to sort something out that should be sorted out at court and between parents.

Am I at risk of being accused of false reporting something minor as abuse or of being a neglectful mother that has not recognised and adequately protected her children from abuse. it seems that it is going to be one or the other.

I feel like if I had kept them because he hadn’t agreed, then it would lead to me being found to be responsible for contributing to what Cafcas described as a toxic relationship eg not being reasonable, or fair to your ex or listening to his side of things or willing to compromise.

I hate when you have a bad relationship with your ex even though you are bending over backwards to be fair to him and listen to and understand his point of view and you have to take 50% of the blame for it.
I hate it when people say its so much better for the kids if it is amicable. Really!!! I KNOW THAT!!!! I know that more than you. My EX is not amicable and it is scary and deeply affects my kids and I would love it to stop. Please tell me how??? Your imploring that I be amivable for the kids and describing our relationship rather than his behaviour as toxic contributes to me feeling that I need to give in to his bullying because if I disagree with him he will be cross and I will be held responsible for that and its impact on my kids.

Its exactly the same as when I was in the relationship, he always held me responsible for his behaviour but it is not him saying it it is the world and that is actually worse and makes you feel that you will never escape..

Surely one person can make a relationship toxic alone without any encouragment if they want to, however much the other one tries to prevent it.
I am really an just so so tired of people suggested to me that I be amicable. In everything I do I try to be amicable.
If in retrospect I could of done something better, it was only because I was making the best decision I could in that moment, normally under pressure and with my children not my ex’s best interest as core.
You just can’t win, whatever you do.
I have to have some kind of contact with my ex because he is their dad and will be for ever. Of course I don’t want that relationship to be horrible of course I would choose amicable. BUT I DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE.
You are a bad mother because you give in to him (ot protected them)
You are a bad mother because you are your ex are at odds about things (not agreeing with him so he gets mad)
You are a bad mother because your ex implied this over and over again in your relationship and it now runs like a bad playlist in your head
You are a bad mother because your children have learnt the bad mother script from your ex and repeat it without understanding that it is wrong
Yo are a bad mother because the world says so in so many suble and not so suble ways.

Luckily
95% of the time in the momment, when I am with my kids just doing normal things with them like eating breakfast or talking, I feel like at that momment such a good mother, full of love and admiration and realistic expectations for my wonderful resiliant kids and I am so proud of myself for leaving him and giving them and me the oportunity for it to be like this.

but at night and when they are gone I feel so guilty about what they might be still experiencing and how i could of handled it better.

Can somebody in this group please tell me if I am alone in this!!!! Do any of you have similar feelings/ experiences.
Why can’t people be on our side by working out how to help rather than constantly judge our actions. Why can’t they just say your ex sounds like a really difficult person what can we do to help? Why can’t they say, that must of been really difficult but your kids are really great and some of that must be due to some amazing parenting from you despite a very difficult situation.

OK rant over… feeling better … very grateful for this space
Hopefully might make some of you feel less alone too.

[KIP.]

Hey, firstly you’re a great mother but also an abuse victim. I’ve been on here for years and the solution has always been a court ordered access agreement that leaves him no room to manipulate it and no need to contact you. It also gives the kids the continuity they need x

[Agapantha]

I know that, I am trying that. (detail removed by moderator). That is fuelling my rant and upset.

I am terrified I am pointing out the wrong behaviour in my application or missing the importnat stuff. He always said it was all in my head and i dont remeber stuff right. If i dont remeber stuff right on the day that would make me a liar. That is what he always implied to me. In fact it felt like i was at court and he was the judge and he was questioning me and being judge and jury and that was just an inquiry into what I had done that day and its going to all feel horibly familiar.

I remember so clearly a conversation where i said if you are violent to the children anymore from now onwards i will always stand between you and the kids, but i can not actually see a picture in my head of him hitting the children, being rough yes quite clearly but hitting not cristal clearly. He did stop mostly after I said this and it was a few years ago. I can see him being rough and scary. How to I present this to a court? How can I say i feel really anxious about remembering things clearly because when I try to remmebr it feels physically overwhealming. i can;t expalin it. I know that he hit them, I know that it was not a painful hit but was scary and accompanied by rage. But I can;t actually describe from a clear memeory in my head a single occasion when he hit them. I am not sure this type of thing goes down well at court. Everyone just says just tell the truth as if you have access tgo memories of everything that has happened in your life with a date attched to it and when you remeber something it all just pops up axactly as it happeneed.

I know I can say to the best of my knowlegde or as I remeber it or although i don;t remeber it crystal picture clearly this is what I think happened to the best of my memnory, but i am worried about being cross examined.

I newver had anything to say apart from defeat when my ex cross examined me.

[KIP.]

It’s not your ex that runs things in court. What you’re describing perfectly is the effect of trauma. Memory loss. Speak to your GP and get it noted and ask her for a supporting letter. Any contact with your abuser is toxic so I’d sit down with the kids and make an access agreement yourself and then it won’t be altered and the kids will know this and if he tries to manipulate you then you have the kids backing. He doesn’t run things now. Once you have an agreement between you both you do not need to communicate with him apart from emergencies. Do you have someone who can act as a go between. Any contact with these men is toxic and will make your trauma and memory worse. Block his number in between contact and if you need to communicate at all then do it via email so you have written evidence. It’s your life now. He’s a liar and a bully. Time for you to take charge and don’t defend his actions to your children. He’s bullying you and them and if he’s been violent in the past he will again. You need to get in touch with Women’s aid. They can guide you, help you with court etc x

[KIP.]

Your kids need to know that abuse is not okay and no matter who perpetrates it, they are free and entitled to walk away. Just as you are x

[Iwantmeback]

https://www.judiciary.uk/announcements/coronavirus-crisis-guidance-on-compliance-with-family-court-child-arrangement-orders/
I’m not sure this link will stay, I hope it will. It helps to explain family/court arrangements during this virus
You can learn not to feel guilty. Part of my local WA course was explaining the whys,wherefores of abuse.
Bi làidir means be strong.
Strength and love IWMB

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to reassure you that you are definitely not alone, I recognise all that you are saying and I know you have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about as a mother. This recent pandemic has thrown many of us back to a place where we have to negotiate with an abusive father over arrangements for the children. I have found that support from my local women’s aid has been the best thing for helping me cope with the issues arising with child matters and my ex. I hope you have access to something similar. It is still something that is very difficult to deal with and I know how lonely it can feel at times as the majority of people do not truly understand no matter how caring they are, family, friends, partner, work etc. This forum is also a great comfort and support.

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