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Just added my original post from the Is It Abuse board for background….hope that’s ok?
Quick background. Been with husband since school married several years and 2 young children.
Started with difficulties as I had had a sexual partner before meeting husband (one time sex when I was age removed by moderator, looking back not rape but I didn’t really understand what I was getting myself into?) husband couldn’t cope with this and struggled to continue with relationship, always bringing it up and when drunk calling me names for it, there was a lot of jealousy during these first years especially on nights out where husband would often be aggressive with anyone who talked to me. After we moved in together he talked about wanting to visit a prostitue to even the score but I said I couldn’t let him. Early on in relationship we had a**l sex which I wasn’t happy with but he explained it was something I hadn’t done with anyone else so made it special. This continued with most times we had sexual him asking for a**l sex and often me feeling I had to do it to please him. He knew it was painful and I often cried during but I always said I was ok and he treated me with such love and affection afterwards I kept going through with it. It was slowly ruining sex for me as I knew that was always coming and nothing else was good enough and if I said no it was a disappointment to him. He’d often ask for other things andnif I said no he’d say why did I have so many things I wouldn’t do. Following the birth of my second child I seemed to gather strength to say I didn’t want to do it any more, if I’m honest I wasn’t scared he would leave me any more as I had my children and I knew I’d be fine?? Anyway the relationship has gone downhill since the birth of my first child, I know I’ve shut down from him emotionally and I feel he is manipulating me daily. He is often aggressive, once smashed a mirror and gave me a little shove but then stopped himself, said this was because he was having health problems and I wasn’t being supportive. He once shut the car door on the back of my legs after a disagreement, other than this he’s not violent. (detail removed by moderator) we had a particularly rough time and were not communicating very well. One night after he’d been drinking I had initiated giving him oral sex but then he became rough, holding my head down and taking my clothes off to have full sex when I was crying and had said no. He has since explained this was because he was desperate as I’d said I didn’t enjoy intimacy any more and he was trying something new.
He has said the a**l sex doesn’t matter as it was so long ago and I was a willing participant. He tells me I don’t like affection and he is the affectionate one, he calls me a n********t and said I lack empathy, he’s questioned my mental health and says I may have post natal depression. He encouraged me to go for couples counselling but after a few sessions the counsellor asked to see me alone and now refuses to see us together as she says he is being emotionally abusive and has shamed me and coerced me into doing sexual things I don’t want to throughout our entire relationship.
Even though I’ve heard this I still can’t believe it. He says we are both part of it and I’m just trying to justify why I want to leave him and yet I still can’t leave. The main problem is the children and I don’t want to break up their family.
(detail removed by moderator)
I just feel in a permanent fog of confusion and don’t know what to do. I’ve tried to speak to my mum but can’t go into details of the sexual issues and she just said we have both manipulated each other which worries me it’s my fault and that is how people would see it if we split.
Sorry this is so long and confusing just feel I need someone to talk toDon’t know what to do….if I leave how do I do it with kids???
Should I leave? Is it enough to leave? -
Hi enofadov,
You are in the right place posting on here. You will get the answers to your questions by reading the posts on here and posting as you need. Knowledge is Power and what you describe is classic abuser behaviour by your husband. Abuse is not love. Someone who loves you doesn’t want you to feel bad. Love builds the other person up. He is tearing you down.
Classic abuser projection is to call us mad and accuse us of what they themselves are. He is confessing to you actually. He has just told you what he is, a N… who lacks empathy, he forces you into sex and has raped you (ignored your no), he is the unaffectionate one, he is treating you like an object not his wife with whom he should he should cherish and be gentle.
Your mum by what she has said doesn’t understand the dynamics of an abusive relationship. There is not a pair of you in it or it doesn’t take two to tango. He is manipulating you to have Power and Control in the relationship. Not just you but he will operate like this with his family, friends, work colleagues. Even if he seems like Mr. Popular or Mr. Nice-Guy that’s just a façade of his so he can abuse behind closed doors. He gets a high out of your hurt, distress and confusion. You feel confused and in a fog because he is duping and deceiving you.
This is a lot for you to take in. Awareness is painful in the beginning but actually is a gift. Its better to face reality now than to continue living in an illusion and damage being done to you and your children by living with these abusive, non-caring bully behaviours.
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Get yourself some support. Talk to womensaid. Leaving is the right thing to do but it is also one of the hardest things to do without support. Make a safety plan with them. Keep important documents to hand. Pack an emergency bag with stuff for you and your kids. When you feel you can’t take it anymore and you’ve had enough just take everything and go. You can turn up at the housing offices and declare yourself homeless, ring womensaid to help you find a refuge place, or ask the police to help you cos you don’t feel safe. I don’t know how old your kids are but the sooner you get away the better. Do it at a time when he won’t be around so it will be easier to take the kids with you rather than them get caught in the crossfire.
Beware, he will use the children against you.
Stay safe x
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Thank you loverofnocontact it is really hard to take in and when I’m sitting with him watching tv still doesn’t seem real?? Still doesn’t seem bad enough, but I know exactly what you mean a wife should be cherished and I’m not.
Thank you iamme, I don’t want to leave the house as although it’s in joint names I have more collateral in it and am luckily in a financial position to be able to buy it off him so really want to stay here where my children are settled??? Am I being naive in this???
I fear what he will do with the kids to come between us which is why I’m trying to keep this amicable between us and even ignore my real feelings? -
I would contact women’s aid and rights for women and find out what your options are. I doubt that he will leave willingly, abusers really don’t like losing their victims, but there might be options to make him leave. I would also pack the emergency bag – important documents, ID, bank card, mobile charger and a change of clothes are the kinds of things you probably want. And try and keep your phone near you. Abusers become more dangerous when we try to leave, and your abuser has already raped you and been physically violent. I know it doesn’t seem that bad from your perspective, but pushing you is enough to count as physical abuse, and he has also shut a car door on your legs, and I suspect that you might have a similar experience to me if you can leave. I thought my ex had never hit me, but when I left I realised that he had punched me multiple times (and then convinced me that I had imagine it) and that he regularly smothered me and then convinced me that it was my fault. Obviously I don’t think you have necessarily experienced exactly the same violence, but I think that you have probably minimised the violence that you have suffered. Emotional abuse is incredibly powerful and can shut down our ability to really process what is going on. I hope that you don’t need the emergency bag, but it is best to have one if the worse happens and you have to flee unexpectedly.
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Hi enofadov
Having children defo makes you stronger and I think makes you feel guilty that they are being brought up where their mother is being abused we know it’s wrong and not acceptable.
My mum is like yours makes comments like well you’re no saint etc etc. They don’t understand abuse as the girls above say projection gas lighting physical and sexual violence.
The answer is yes you should leave but as we all know on here it’s so easy to say it but not easy to do it . You have to build yourself up do it when you feel ready. I’d defo ring the helpline about doing a plan and seeking legal advice I’m so pleased you are financially stable that’s one less worry for you .
You’re in the right place here wishing on all the luck in the world x x
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Just read when you say he is not violent. This threat of violence is what my ex used for years to control me. Aggressive behaviour is a form of violence. It’s enough to keep us in line as we are scared of his reaction. That’s how coercive control works. You’re so lucky to be financially sound. Although watch out for financial abuse. My ex stole tens of thousands from me. As you as, you’ve got your kids. What do you actually need him for? He’s destroying your mental health. My advice is get good legal advice, keep a journal of his actions, sounds like rape to me. Contact women’s aid. Then run, run for the hills, run fast and never look back.
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Well done for posting here.
Insightful comments from the rest.
I am trying to imagine exactly which point you are at right now to say something helpful.
I know this is a process and I’ve been through similar and you will need to do things bit by bit.It may be too much right now, but you are obviously thinking it through with the finances.
You say you are married.Ok. In a nutshell the process might be:
a) you leave (for refuge for example) WITH your kids.
b) then you start working on divorce, including finances.
c) In any event with the finance hearing you will both need to declare your finances unless you can agree a settlement which might be possible.OR
a) you get him to leave (which is where the legal advice comes in).
b) then you CHANGE THE LOCKS.
c) then you set about divorce/contact arrangements e.t.c.Both ways are a long road, but you have come to the right place for starters.
I am sorry to be so blunt, but I hope someone has said to you – and this is what I believe from my own experience – it is your call which way you are going to go, however NOT LEAVING or NOT GETTING HIM OUT NOW have possibly two very sad and potentially very dangerous consequences.
a) you get hurt even more than you have been already
b) actually you stand more of a chance of losing your kids than you would if you don’t act – all this is obviously not your fault, but the longer you stay in a potentially dangerous situation (for you as well as for your kids)
the less evidence you will have that you are a brilliant mum – (which I believe you are). If you act now then all concerned will eventually appreciate that you did it in the best interests of your kids and your wellbeing.
I do know it is scary, the uncertainty of it, but you CAN CROSS THE BRIDGE.Take a deep breath, have faith, we are with you.
Please act. Now.
We are with your in spirit.all best
ftc -
Thank you Tiffany,he hasn’t been violent other than those occasions but has often been rough during sex (slapping my face a little too hard and pushing down on my back just a bit more than comfortable) don’t know if I’m minimising things, I think I’m still not believing it yet?
I will definitely pack that bag….thank youThank you Tractor….I really thought my mum would be a good person to talk to but she really didn’t understand.
Thank you KIP….you are so right, what do I need him for?? I would have said before he was my best friend my soulmate, we’ve been together since we were kids, but now it’s not the same. I’ve never really felt scared of him but if I’m honest I have felt that walking on eggshells thing which I suppose is fear???
Will start a journal, good idea.Thank you freedomtochoose
I suppose I’m still at the point where I don’t think it’s real??? Still think I’m being dramatic, haven’t spoken to him about it, scared to break up the family, scared I’m being over sensitive, scared of makingvthe wrong decision??? Is this normal??
Could I be wrong?? Why do I need so much reassurance on this????Thank you so much for being blunt….definitely what I need and such good advice and little steps to take.
So glad I’ve found this forum….feel so much less alone in this.Do I talk to him about what I’m thinking?? Do I give him the chance to explain? Or do I just say it’s over?? He thinks I’m in counselling to deal with how I’m not happy in the relationship. Keeps saying do I know how long it will take for me to feel better??
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I wouldn’t talk to him about your plans. He will lie, twist, bully, manipulate, gaslight you leaving you even more confused. Abusers use Fear Obligation and Guilt. FOG. To control us. You can clearly see he is not the man you married. Like my ex, he wore a mask until he trapped me. He pretended to be ym soulmate, a perfect partner, moulding himself into the kind of person I would adore. But that was the fake him. The real him is a nasty self serving individual. Had he shown you his true self originally, you would never have fallen for him. Yes, walking on eggshells is fear. No one should fear their partner. Do not ever expect him to be reasonable. You will be blamed for everything. He will never accept guilt. He expects you to carry his guilt for him. I persuaded my ex to have a trial separation. Perhaps you could try this, get him to move out with the promise of trying to make it work with space then change the locks and move forward with the divorce? Just a suggestion because he’s going nowhere otherwise. Just be careful x
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Hi Enofadov,
Welcome to the forum. I am so pleased that you have got some good support here but I just wanted to show you some myself. I am sorry to say but your partner sounds very abusive in every single way. He is physically abusive, sexually abusive, emotionally abusive, jealous and controlling and I am sure that he is financially abusive too. It is great that the counsellor has picked up on his abuse and I hope she is helping you.
Firstly I just wanted to say please try to find a safe time to phone the helpline at a safe time. They will help to talk to you about your situation and perhaps talk you through all your options. I would strongly recommend that you don’t talk to him about what you are thinking or give him time to explain. At the moment that could be dangerous for you. Nor would I let him know that you are posting here or speaking to a counsellor. As soon as he realises that you are gaining in knowledge and power he may well become more abusive and you and your children will be even more at risk. Is there somewhere that you could go with the children to be safe? Just to have a bit of head space and clarity? If not then perhaps talk to the helpline about a refuge. It’s early days for you so I don’t want to overload you with your options but certainly the helpline would be a great starting point.
We are all here for you so please keep posting to let us know how you get on.
Best wishes,
Lisa
Forum Moderator -
Ok KIP, but it’s so hard not talking to him, the atmosphere in the house is unbearable and he keeps calling me cruel and watching things on YouTube about wives being passive aggressive….I know he’s talking to his family about me too and making me out to be the one unhappy and at fault??
We got together at school so I don’t think this was ever a conscious thing in his part? I do wonder if his Dad did this to his mum although they split when he was (detail removed by Moderator) I know there was horrid things that went on?
Trial separation sounds a good idea.Am I being really silly thinking about the kids though? Like today I was freaking out about them spending Christmas away from me….I cannot breathe thinking about losing them even for a weekend. How do I deal with that? Sorry for asking all these questions.
Thank you Lisa for the welcome and the reply. My parents live (detail removed by Moderator) and we are very close. Although my mum didn’t respond. In the way I had hoped when I started to open up to her she will definitely be there for us unconditionally. Am I being naive in thinking he will not turn nasty??
Is there anyway anybody thinks this could just bee being dramatic….I won’t be offended if someone does?? Just cannot believ it still -
Unfortunately talking to abusers about the fact that you are planning on leaving almost always ends one of ways. The first maybe 5 or 6 times I tried to leave I told my abuser, and he gaslighted me and love bombed me until I felt that I had to give him a second chance. He was incredibly good at manipulating me and I didn’t get beyond thinking about leaving and telling a couple of close friends that I was unhappy. I hadn’t realised it was abuse and didn’t see the pattern until after I left. Every time I thought that we had talked about what was important, and he knew what had upset me and would do his utmost to change. And for a few weeks it would seem like things were getting better – he’d be the perfect partner. But then things would start going downhill again, and each time things were actually slightly worse.
The second thing they might do when you tell them you want to leave is what my partner did when I told him I was thinking of moving out. He punched me. Fortunately for me, not very hard, and it was enough to get me to move out. But there is an increased risk of violence from our abusers when we tell them we want to leave. This risk is exacerbated if our partners have been violent towards us in the past, which applies to you obviously.
For these two reasons women’s aid highly recommends that you don’t tell your partner that you are leaving them/want a divorce/etc. until you are safely away from their influence. My successful escape only worked because I had found a flat and moved there without him knowing where I was before I told him it was over. Had I not done that I think I would be with him. Or my escape would have been much later and have involved the police and serious violence.
He is being unbelievably passive aggressive (kind of hilariously by attempting passive aggressively to convince you that you are passive aggressive). This is called mirroring btw, when abusers are actually doing all the things they are accusing you of. Try not to let it get to you. I know it’s hard. In my last month’s with my abuser I had to build up a kind of “b***h personality” – I created a kind of wall between myself and his feelings, so I could ignore him and do what was right for me. I felt incredibly cruel at the time, but ultimately you shouldn’t feel guilty about meeting your own needs! It is only living with an abuser that makes you feel that way.
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All of these behaviours and thoughts I would say are ‘normal’ given your current situation.
It is very hard to finally accept that this is abuse.Because it is hard to accept – we sometimes blame ourselves.
I’m sure that many of us need to keep practising self-compassion every single day.
It is definitely not your fault and these feelings will start to fade when you are in freedom.
all bestI personally like the idea of a bxxch personality, or perhaps a warrior with a shield (for our kids).
I think that is what a lot of us mean when we say ‘dig deep’.It is about finding that strength that you never knew you had.
Believe me, you have got it. And you will find it.
Dig deep.ftc
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He absolutely knows exactly what he is doing. He chooses to behave this way towards you. He can control himself around other people so there are no witnesses. It was hard for me to believe this about my husband but it’s absolutely true. He would only abuse me when the door was closed and there were no witnesses. He would blame the alcohol but he could control himself with everyone else when he was drinking. He blamed anger management but he could control his temper everywhere else and he blamed the stress of his job but he didn’t take it out on his boss. Don’t be fooled by him. He chooses to abuse you as a means of control. And it will get worse.
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Just to say also and this is going to sound a bit weird perhaps.
Think of yourself as a resistance freedom fighter. you are going to have to parachute yourself in to enemy territory, keep the morals in your handbag and not tell ANYONE not least him exactly what you are doing until it is all over.
Thousands of women have had to do this before you and sadly, thousands will have to do it since.
But you CAN do it.
One step at a time.
Please don’t be fool enough to think he will understand.
It’s a chess game. You need to be one step ahead.
If spy movies help you, use them as inspiration.
Watch wonder woman if that helps you.
Take care
ftc.
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Thank you Tiffany, FTC and KIP! Your words are really so appreciated.
Will this sink in at all? Will I ever be clear in this or will I always play it down, make excuses and not believe it??
My mood and mindset changes hour by hour but today I’m thinking I’m staying here?? When I made my vows I meant them and the memories I’ve made surely can’t all be fake?
Husband is away for the week and I feel nothing but relief but still can’t help worrying about it ending? Like if I believe this is happening I’m losing the last (detail removed by Moderator) odd years of my life….the birth of my children everything is ruined if that makes sense?
Is this normal? Does anyone come to terms with this and really become sure of what is happening?
Sorry for all these questions…..just don’t really have anyone in real life to talk it through with -
Google cognitive dissonance. I’m one hundred percent clear now that he was an abuser. Crystal clear. My ex worked away a lot and that’s how I think I stayed with him for decades and didn’t attempt suicide because I had a break from him. But the abuse still got worse. It’s the effect on your children you need to concern yourself about. Better to come from a broken home than an abusive one.
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On the wedding vows front, if your husband is abusive then he has already broken his vows – you don’t just vow to stay together, although this is the thing that abusers will emphasize as what you promised. You also promise to care for each other, love and cherish one and other, or some words to this effect. This is the opposite to what an abuser does. If your partner is intentionally hurting you, and I have no doubt that he is doing it on purpose, then he is the one who broke the vows. So you should not feel that you can’t leave for that reason.
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Thank you ladies, I’ve spent some time this afternoon googling cognitive dissonance and it has really helped. I’m finding it so useful the more I read andbthe more I can make sense of this and start to think it maybe real.
I’m still having such shifts in my thinking like I will go from times usually when I just wake up thinking I have to stay and make the best of this and it’s really only normal and is better for my kids and then more fleeting flashes of deciding to leave.
I just don’t know how to proceed. I think my next step would be to meet with a solicitor and just talk about my rights but even that seems like such a big step and so disloyal.In terms of the vows, I never really thought of it from his side as breaking them, just thinking of what I promised and how whatever is being dealt to me I have to keep to them or people will be disappointed???
I’ve even been fantasising about antagonising him in some way when he gets home from his trip just to try and make him do something else which is too bad to ignore….is this normal or as absolutely ridiculous as it sounds???
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Abusers do often rely on us keeping promises. My abuser really ramped up the abuse when we got engaged. He told me I couldn’t leave because I had promised to marry him and everyone would be so disappointed if I didn’t, and it wouldn’t be fair to him because I had given my word. Do you know what? I left. I cancelled the wedding. And everyone is incredibly proud of me for getting out of an awful situation.
The hoping for escalation is normal I think. I had it. I kept half hoping he would do something so awful that I wouldn’t see it. When he started hitting me though I was so confused by the promised and the guilt and he had convinced me I was going mad. I didn’t even notice that he had started to be physically violent. He hit me and suffocated me, and I just blocked it all out, until after I left and it all came back in flashbacks.
A better plan would be to start writing things down. All the bad bits you remember. All the bad bits that happen. Keep it somewhere safe, and use it to remind yourself what is real. And talk to your solicitor. Or Women’s aid. Or rights for women. Good luck.
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Hi, Hun. Pretend I am your best friend, having a coffee at your house and I suddenly burst into tears. I tell you I am so confused. My husband, whom I have been with since school, is confusing me. He makes me do things sexually that hurt, humiliate and make me cry – then blames me for not being more adventurous. I try to tell him how I feel he is treating me as a wife but he turns it around and says it is all in my head – I am the attention seeker and everything is either in my head or my fault. He frightens me because he is aggressive – don’t get me wrong, he isn’t really abusive, just shouts a lot, bangs and breaks things. He has hit my leg with something and pushes me but it’s nothing really.
NOW, think what advice you would give me – your best friend. You would tell me to leave him and that he IS abusive.
My ex did all of the things you say. He had me believing his lies. At one point he had me so convinced I was imagining things that I started to make notes of our conversations, so I could check they had happened. Unfortunately, I stayed for the sake of the children. One by one they grew older, until my youngest was near to being a teenager. Guess what happened? As each child approached teens, ex would lose his mind a bit with each loss of control over his family. He would treat them badly emotionally and try to screw with their heads. Fortunately, they had a good mum (me) to fight their corner and take the worst he had to offer. Until my youngest. My ex wised up to me running interference between him and the children and, unbeknownst to me as he would do it when I was not around, he became very abusive to our youngest. I found out and we all fled. Best decision ever. My children respect me and are thriving. It is VERY, VERY hard for months and months but suddenly you notice you are living instead of surviving.
Practical advice – say nothing to him. Go to a solicitor and get an occupational order (to get him out of the house) and non molestation order against him (to keep him away from you). Write down everything you remember and get medical evidence from your doctor, if you have any – even if it is embarrassing like bleeding anally, it is something to show abuse. These steps are to get him out and keep him away. Go no contact (very important). File for divorce as soon as you can to reinforce that it is over. Separate any finances straightaway and make sure he does not have access to children’s money either. I’m sorry you are in this position but please take our advice. We have all been where you are now – hoping we can ‘fix’ things but abusers don’t want it fixed, they like the way things are and will say anything to keep it that way. Good luck, Hun! You have a long, painful journey ahead of you but it is so worth it to both yourself and your children. -
About the question of will it ever sink in. I, too, questioned everything, particularly after I left. Was he right and that I had over dramatised it? Then I went on the freedom programme at women’s aid. Don’t go on it too soon. This really opened my eyes and made me realise it was ALL him and that abusers have so many patterns to how they treat us. It is called the freedom programme for a reason. You start to see your memories more clearly as abuse and not what he has programmed you to think. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. I still get bad moments but our lives are better than if we had stayed.
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Thanks Tiffany…..I have started to make some notes of our most recent conversation and looking back on it has really helped thank you x*x
Goldengirl…. I know exactly what I’d say if you were my best friend, which makes this so confusing….I need to keep this more at the forefront of my mind.
Talking about your children has really helped as a lot of me staying is based on doing it for them but it really helps hearing stories of how it could affect the children negatively and how they have been happier after a split. Did they ever blame you for leaving him do you mind me asking or are they aware of what you escaped? I just hate the thought of my kids blaming me for taking away their daddy or their family???
Thank you for your practical advice too x*xToday has been up and down. Moments of wanting to tell someone at work…but not knowing who to trust or how to say it. My parents have got back from holiday and my mum just asking ‘how things were’ pulled Me down but then more positive moments where I could see a way out. Husband has taken to sharing these mindset quotes on facebook, which to me say exactly what he is thinking of me and today’s was l about don’t be mad and learn to forgive!!! Wouldn’t be anything sinister to anybody else but so manipulative to me….anyway husband is still away with work so the good thing is space to think x*x
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I want to add, if it helps, my ex worked away and I found out was cheating on me more than once. It’s very common for these men to cheat. He was also stealing tens of thousands from behind my back. They are pathological liars and expert as Gaslighting. Don’t try to negotiate or compromise with these men. You just won’t win. Make your own escape plan then use professionals to deal with him. Police or courts, civil or criminal. For decades I thought the abuse was all my fault. They are good at the blame game, twisting and manipulation. If you take a step back, they don’t even make sense. My ex told me when I caught him cheating that he tried to tell me three or four times but I just wouldn’t listen!! He even tried to blame his affair on me. Pathetic mind blowing dysfunction. Funny now but when you’re in the depths of abuse, this kind of statement can drive you mad.
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I can’t see him cheating on me but maybe I’m being really blind about things?
I do need to be more careful with my finances as this does worry me?
I haven’t really heard from husband all week since he’s been away and I don’t miss him….just feel safe……still can’t imagibe imagine taking the next step though? -
Hi, again. No, they did not blame me at all for any of it. They don’t want to know him and are just relieved it is all over. I didn’t realise how much they were affected whilst we were together. I thought I had sheltered them from it but that was not the case. Now they are more carefree and we are not continuously walking on egg shells. On finances – be very aware they will go for any money they can get their hands on. It is another tactic to keep control. The courts can’t do anything to get money back once ex takes it but will take some of yours for him, if it is in the bank. Many abusers have hidden stashes or emptied accounts as soon as you leave – they can even run up debt until you split financially. Hence my advice about a good solicitor to advise how to cut financial ties as quickly as possible.
Don’t worry about your thoughts – my mind was in turmoil for many, many, many months after I left. I had so many doubts about reality and my choice. It is only with time that you can calm down and see the truth. Memories return and others become sharper. Then, I couldn’t believe how much I had put up with! Plan carefully, get evidence if you can, split finances and go for court orders. Expect to feel devastated, expect feelings of loneliness, expect confusion and fog, as your brain and body come out of this situation – you have been in fight or flight mode for so long, coping with him. Don’t be surprised if you miss him – you don’t miss him, you miss being a family unit, however bad it is. Good luck. -
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You need support to leave. You need the backing of women’s aid. I always found an excuse not to go. It seemed easier to stay and take the abuse. But it’s not healthy for you or your children. Children learn from their environment. They pick up much more than you think. And you like a half life. Barely functioning and living in a fog. My son has traits of his father. Abusive ones. I so wish I’d left when he was young. That way I could have explained things without the influence of an abuser. It’s the hardest thing in the world to leave an abusers. They brainwash us this way so we are scared to leave. Have no confidence or self esteem to leave. My mental health suffered incredibly.
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I remember begging my therapist for permission to leave. I was so abused and traumatised that I just didn’t know what was going on. Like you it was abuse of the most horrific kind. Yes you should leave but you should leave safely. Your local women’s aid will help you with a safety plan. He is vile and dangerous and I can see you are minimising his behaviour. Just like I did. But he chooses to abuse you and it won’t change x
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Why can’t I believe it’s enough??? How do I get over this minimalisation??? I just feel I’m constantly asking for clarification, who is it I need to agree with me?
What can I do to believe this? I’m sorry for repeating myself and I know it seems like I’m ignoring everyone’s advice and kind words…..I just don’t know when this moment will come?? -
Feeling so down today. I went to counselling and talked about a lot more incidents of abuse during sex, things I just thought were a normal part of our sex life but that I never enjoyed and realise we’re wrong. Then husband is back from his business trip with no more trips away planned so I just feel trapped. He’s come home with presents for me including a badge saying I am loved….just so confused, acting completely normal despite the fact we’ve had minimal contact all week, one text a day if that….
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Hi, Hun. I totally understand why you are confused and minimalising things. This is a common trait and will take a long time to get clear in your head, once you leave. You probably won’t get perspective whilst you stay – it is a coping mechanism. It happened to me too and I didn’t get my memories and feelings clear for many months after leaving. I was forced to leave as he had started on our youngest in secret. As soon as I found out, we fled. My youngest didn’t tell me all of it (nothing sexual) until we left as thought it wouldn’t make any difference as it was just the way things were! How very sad! Things got worse when I found out my teenage daughter’s first boyfriend had begun to be abusive and she put up with it – learnt behaviour? So, although they are now safe and not under his influence, I honestly believe I had left it too late. My youngest suffered abuse for months when it was not necessary and my daughter’s first love was not the love’s young dream of other teenage girls. As for the minimalisation – abusers do it a bit at a time. They let you react to the next little bit, you start to adjust and cope with the new twist of abuse and then they add a bit more. Always a little at a time and always moving the goal posts. This is such a common trait that I swear there is a manual on the internet for abusers. It is all so you think it is all in your head and it isn’t that bad – drip, drip, drip! Funny how your bad day is when he comes home and you find out he has no trips planned, isn’t it? You deserve someone who makes you feel glad he is home, not stressed and down. We only get one life and we all deserve someone who enhances our lives, not pulls it down. Get advice from WA about leaving and my thoughts are with you.
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Oh Goldengirl I’m sorry you wish you’d got out sooner but I’m glad your kids are safe now.it does scare me so much
Yeah I know I’m feeling down as he is home and I knew I’d fall back into this cycle of feeling sorry for him and for the marriage and thinking I will just put up with things.
(detail removed by moderator) Just makes me feel so guilty for even thinking of leaving -
I am afraid his behaviour is designed to make you feel guilted into staying. It was my exes favourite weapon of choice. The deal he made about all the gifts he got me was unbelievable. He never bothered to think of what I would like, but towards the end always chose big flash things that I would feel guilty about not wanting or liking. He also lied continually about where he got things, and how much they cost. Like he would buy prayer bracelets and pretend he was given them by the priest because the priest was sad to hear that I was unwell (I was mostly unwell because of the abuse). And he always claimed any jewelry he bought me was worth more than it was. I was going to buy myself earrings one day in a sale. They were under £20. He offered to buy them for me. It seemed a generous gesture and I knew he could afford them so I said yes. A couple of months later and I dropped one. Couldn’t find it and asked him to help me look. He went ballistic. I should be more careful, I didn’t love him if I didn’t look after the stuff he bought me, and finally that they had been real diamond earrings and had cost him almost £100. I felt so guilty. I thought I must have misread the price label and he had spent way more than I realised. I actually found them again recently, and you know what, they’re nice, but they cost less than £20 and no way are they real diamonds. I was just so used to him gaslighting me that I trusted his version of events better than the events I remembered. It all became much clearer once I left.
On the kid front, haven’t any of my own, but have dated two men from abusive backgrounds. My abuser’s mother had stayed with his abusive mother, and my ex had learned his behaviour from him. My other ex’s mother left while he was still in preschool. Things didn’t work out with us, but he’s still a close mate and a kind and gentle soul who takes extreme care to make different choices to his father. I honestly don’t think this is coincidental. Obviously not everyone who is abused, or grows up in an abusive household becomes an abuser, but you can’t come away unscarred. Leaving while your kids are still young gives them the best chance of a healthy childhood though. And that is worth a lot.
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Yeah I think he’s going for that guilt option Tiffany and I constantly tell him not to buy me presents but spend money on the kids. Don’t understand why he would be buying me any gifts when the relationship is at the stage it’s in? But that really gets to me as I feel so guilty if I haven’t thanked someone for a gift they have bought….
The thing is my husbands parents split up from what I imagine was an abusive relationship when he was very young…..younger than my eldest so in my head I’ve alreafy decided it’s too late? Any damage had been done??? Not that my children have witnessed anything happening but any kind of picking up on things will already be the same level as he got and the psychological damage of a split at that age was obviously so bad that my husband is like he is and I don’t want that for my kids.
I know I’m sounding like an idiot full of excuses…..but right now it’s just feeling easier to stay.
Please keep talking to me. What should I be doing? I think it’s my nature to try and solve this with actions?? I’ve tried reading up as much as I can arming myself with the knowledge I need, but I’m no closer. Seem in exactly the same position after my counselling sessions. Just don’t know what to do… -
Honestly, we can’t pretend it won’t be affecting your kids. But you can show them what a healthy non abusive life, and what normal non abusive relationships are like if you leave. They aren’t going to see anything other than the abuse you are experiencing and worse if you stay. It is the best chance for you and your kids. Maybe just start working out the logistics for if you did leave. Where would you live, would you go onto a refuge, would you move in with family? If you can I would call women’s aid, or go to your local offices to talk to them, and talk through the practicalities. I sorted my escape before I managed to process anything. I didn’t realize it was abuse until I left. I just knew that I was deeply unhappy. And I realised that actually if I was that unhappy in my relationship it was ok to leave even if there wasn’t anything wrong with the relationship. Even if he wasn’t abusive (and I didn’t believe he was when I left) I still deserved to be happy with my life. And I had to leave to achieve that. Once you are out things mostly become much clearer, and it’s easier to work out the way forward, but if you can just sort the basic practicalities to get our now then that is enough. The clarity can come later.
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Yes but I don’t think I will ever want another relationship or could have one with how jealous husband is and how could I live with them spending time with him without me?? I just can’t breathe thinking about it.
But thank you Tiffany as I have been thinking about how unhappy I am and really that that alone deserves me to leave no matter if it really is abuse or not??? -
You don’t need another relationship with a man to show your kids what good relationships look like. If you leave you can have good relationships with them! Sorry, it’s a broad kind of word, but I was thinking in the wider sense. I know when I was in my abusive relationship that I didn’t have good strong relationships with my family and friends. He had really weakened them, by making it harder to see my family and friends (guilt trips rather than bans) and by putting me in the position that I couldn’t be truthful with anyone about my life because he had made me so afraid of saying anything that cast him in a bad light. And most of my life cast him in a bad light. I imagine that you may well also have problems with your kids orchestrated by him. The example of a strong single lady and her relationship with the rest of the world will be a much better example to your kids than your current dysfunctional family life. And believe me, when you manage to leave you will learn just how strong you are.
If the thought that you deserve to be happy resonates with you then cling to it. It can be your guide out. I had almost a mantra when I was leaving. I have to do what’s right for me. It didn’t mean I rode roughshod over other people or their feelings, but I looked after my health and happiness for the first time in years. And when he tried repeatedly to sabotage that, then I knew I had to get out. You cannot stay with someone who wants you to be miserable. The only thing I would take care of is that it can put you at risk of escalation of abuse. Do try to talk to women’s aid and get a plan in place for leaving in case you need it in a hurry. And have an emergency bag packed incase you have to flee suddenly.
You deserve happiness. If he is making you sad then it’s ok to leave. Even if he wasn’t abusive. He probably is, because normal people don’t want to make their partners sad, and we don’t feel anything like as guilty when we leave non abusive people as we do when we leave abusers. Because abusers make us feel guilty so we won’t leave them. But even if he isn’t, you can still leave.
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Yeahbim really hopeful my relationship without my kids is not being affected and I know by relationships with my family are really positive already but I know what you mean Tiffany thank you
It’s the custody issue that is just still panicking me…..how can I cope with lettingvthem go to him alone without me if we split? How do other people cope with this???
Today it’s just been more manipulation of the most expert kind.. (detail removed by moderator)
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No such thing as an innocent misunderstanding with these men. Would you dissapear with a child and not answer your phone? It’s designed to worry you and if you hadn’t done anything to find them he would accuse you of not caring. You cannot win with these men. They simply change the goal posts. It’s all about making you think you’re crazy. Well you’re not the crazy one x
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I didn’t think my relationship with my family was affected. It really was though, and as time went on it got gradually worse. It was subtle stuff. Not telling my family everything when I had problems with him, feeling guilty if I saw more of my family than his – even though I had relatives in town and he didn’t. Not visiting my parents as much. And then his expert manipulation that made me feel like they wouldn’t support me if I left or that they talked about me behind my back. The true extent of the effects didn’t become clear until long after I left.
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Abused women leave and return on average 7 times. You don’t have to make a decision now but know it will only get worse in the long run. And the longer the kids are exposed to his behaviour of you, the more they will see it as normal. Keep speaking to professionals and get to know all the facts. He is not your responsibility. If you take away the fear, Obligation and Guilt. Would you really be with him?
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Your relationship is making you overwhelmingly sad and panicky. You are not overreacting. We’re all so afraid of that. My abuser told me it over and over. I was overreacting when I cried after hours of emotional abuse, I was overreacting when I asked him not to hit me when I was asleep. I was overreacting when I panicked while he held his hand over my mouth and nose. As I didn’t leave after any of these incidents, I think that you will see what it me months of hindsight to see. I was underreacting massively to the way he was treating me.
I imagine if you manage to leave the things you realise that you were underreacting to will be different, but I am sure they will be there.
In the meantime, try to keep a list of abusive incidents somewhere safe. If you can gather other evidence of abuse that might help too, but don’t put yourself in danger trying to get it. I actually wrote a list of both positive and negative interactions with my abuser in the weeks running up to my leaving. I was astounded to discover that almost all interactions were negative and brought me down in some way. I thought the bad bits were only occasional. It turned out that he was emotionally abusive daily. The list also really helped with reducing the affects of gaslighting as I had written evidence to prove that I wasn’t misremembering.
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Yeah, just feel I’ve missed my chance and now he’s being nice as pie, nothing to write down and just me being sulky now to him because I can’t forget.
I’m annoying myself now just constantly. I’m unhappy but this is not enough to disrupt the children for and risk losing them to him.
Thank you for all your help and advice though I feel I’m being really ungrateful each message I post -
He has raped you and sexually abused you. That’s a good enough reason to leave. He has also at least a couple of times been physically aggressive. That is a good enough reason to leave. He gaslights – telling you that coersing you into having anal sex which hurt you and made you cry was history and not a big deal. He’s almost definitely gaslighting you about other stuff too. That’s a really good reason to leave.
But, you are used to this and it seems normal. And the effects of the gaslighting are so strong that now he is being nice you would rather trust that than your own memory.
Honestly, I think the sweet thing will be because he has sensed he has gone too far and is using love bombing to reel you back in. Look out for incidents which make you feel guilty about thinking about leaving. Lavish presents, nights out etc are common at this stage. Otherwise, just use this nice spell to work on a leaving plan. Work out where you would go, when your safe leaving windows might be (ideally when he is out of the house – otherwise with the support of other people or the police incase he turns violent). How you will manage for money. Whether you will have to change the kids schools.
Sadly I don’t think you will have missed your window to leave. Abusers can be nice as nice for spells of time, but they always revert to abuse eventually. Mine could manage up to around 2 months of nice behaviour if he tried really hard. More commonly it would be 2 weeks though.
You don’t have to wait for more abuse to leave, but if you aren’t ready to go yet you can use the good periods to improve your self esteem and self care in preparation for a time when you are ready to go, just as you can use the bad bits to get her evidence of why you have to leave. Try to stay strong.
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Hi, there’s no way you should be living with this man. My emotional abuse is bad enough but the sexual abuse that he has done to you is such a red flag and he just sounds so nasty. I called women’s aid for the first time on tues and again yesterday, they were amazing so please please call them. They are so lovely and will reassure you and confirm all of the above comments about him and the fact that you are not over dramatising it all. You have financial security by the sound of it, which makes a better position for you.
I know exactly how you feel about panicking about the kids, I thought we were over the other day and it was actually a relief apart from the children getting upset. But remember they all have friends at school or children they know with separated parents and life can often improve when things finally settle down. I need to remember that too. Well done for posting on here and never worry about asking for support. Good luck x -
Yes, you need to leave.
What he does to you is rape.
Anal sex is very unhealthy and can lead to lifelong health problems.
Oral sex can lead to health problems too when done too frequently.
He is an abuser and you do not deserve such a life.
Take your kids and go into a refuge.
Attend the Freedom Programme.
There is a better life out there for you.
You do not need the approval of anybody in order to do this.
Forget what people think.
You will not lose your kids to a rapist.
Abuse never stops.
He may behave nicely now, but he will be nasty again.
Build your network now. Speak to Women’s Aid and Rights of Women.
When you are abused again you will see the truth of what all the women tell you and you can then leave quickly.
Prepare your documents and all you need when you leave, so that you do not waste any time. -
Thank you Tiffany. He has actually mentioned booking a weekend away with a recent bonus? Maybe you’re right. Just doesn’t feel real whennim in it does this makes sense??
Anotherlife are you suffering sexual abuse too? What did you say to women’s aid when you rang? I just didn’t find her that helpful??? Do you worry about custody of your kids? Sorry for ok the questions!!Thank you Ayanna….
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I didn’t believe it until after I left. He was so successful at gaslighting me that I just couldn’t. So I clung to the single undeniable fact that I was unhappy. I couldn’t deny or forget that. And in the end I managed to convince myself that that was enough to leave. Sometimes I knew he hit me. Sometimes I thought it couldn’t be true. It couldn’t be true. It must be me who was overreacting. About a week after I finally left I started to get terrifying flashbacks. I think my brain had been shut down to the terror, because if I realised how terrified I should have been I would have been paralysed. It’s a trauma response.
Try women’s aid again – it does depend on who you get on the phone how well you will gel with them, and that will affect how helpful you find it. They will be able to help with making plans and keeping yourself safe. The rape crisis line is supposed to be really good – I have never had to call, as sexual assaults and rape weren’t a huge part of my abuse. And rights for women will be able to help you with the legal stuff surrounding custody of your children.
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I suppose that makes sense as part of a coping strategy. I just figured surely if it was bad enough I wouldn’t still be here??? But I have started to see a few bits I’d kind of forgotten or played down???
I’m dreading this Easter weekend together.
Next step is a solicitor but just don’t think I will ever do it. Just know I’m not going to leave. -
I felt like you do. I thought I’d never leave. But all of us have a breaking point. The abuse will escalate and he will go too far. He will abuse your children, or physically assault you, or drive you to attempt suicide. He will try to destroy your mental health. He will cheat on you and rub your nose in it. There will come a day when you simply Say enough is enough. You might not be there yet, but when that day comes, you will wish you’d left years ago. Meantime keep posting and learning all you can about domestic abuse. I stayed for decades because I did not know I was being abused. As soon as I knew his game. That he chose to abuse me. And he got a thrill doing it. I knew there was no going back.
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Hi enofadov,
Where to start? Oh you are the spitting image of me (detail removed by moderator), hun. Yes I know how d****d hard their MrPerfect act is to take and be confident enough not to doubt your sanity etc. Then there’s the children they use when playing the pity me role isn’t working like it used to etc. Let me just say this. I’ve been married for over 3 decades now my boys are actually grown men now and he’s still using them to try to break me. Like everyone on here I’ve always tried to shield my sons from him and his abuse. I thought I’d done a pretty good job up until recently when I told my husband that unless he stopped lying, hiding money and manipulating me and started helping me sort our wreck of a house out I would leave and divorce him. He promised the earth moon and stars as usual but this time I set goals for him and boundaries for me. He only kept one promise, crossed or totally ignored my boundaries and continued to lie, manipulate and make me feel like I was being abusive by black mailing him etc. Repeatedly tells me he’s doing his best etc so I told him I’d made an appointment to see a lawyer. Predictably he is being supper nice, saying loving supportive things etcThat’s my background. Now let me tell you what I have learned.
1 if he really loved me he wouldn’t have waited until I went to a lawyer before being loving and supportive
2 if he loved me he wouldn’t have been like yours and made me do things I wasn’t comfortable with, asked him not to do, said no to, cried and begged him to stop, or slap me if I tried to push him off etc etc.
3 if he loved me he wouldn’t have cheated on me, lied to me or hidden his money in off shore accounts under his father’s name so it won’t be taken into account in the divorce settlement
4 if he loved me he wouldn’t have just done something at my lawyers to make her boss drop my case leaving me without legal representation
5 neither would he be saying he wants this to be an amicable divorce then torture me by saying I was ruining our sons lives
6 since telling our sons I’ve found out that my younger son (as I’ve feared for some time) is suffering badly with depression and low self esteem
7 to my horror I’ve also realised my eldest is turning into a clone of his fatherI underestimated the level of abuse, didn’t even acknowledge it as such he is so brilliant at minimising, denying and turning everything on its head to blame me. I can’t tell you what to do. People have been trying to convince me for decades. So I know that won’t work. What I will say is keep reading through the posts on here, everything you can find on abuse, googling the words you see on here videos on u tube etc and start to ask yourself questions. Why is he being so nice since he came back? Guilty conscience? Does he sense that you’re feeling unhappy and may leave? Etc. Most of the time I still can’t be 100% sure I’m right, so I write down all the possibilities. More often than not there’s more bad things, the bad things seem to make most sense and my gut tells me more and more than he is a (detail removed by moderator) personality disorder abuser.
I’m leaving so that I can provide a safe place for my younger son and I to live and to show my eldest that there is always a better choice than his father’s way of living, that I’m not weak and hysterical like his father has told him and that I will not only leave and survive but that my son and I will both heal and thrive once we are free of his poisonous abuse
It will take time for the awful truth of your situation to sink in. I urge you to keep searching for answers and clarity, to be open to the possibility that he is not the Prince Charming you thought you married and as for your marriage vows, I promised to obey! But as I’ve recently found out what I was actually saying was I would follow his loving leadership to promote harmony within our marriage. God did not intend me to be treated like his slave, be abused sexually, emotionally, physically and mentally as well as spiritually. God meant him to love and respect and cherish me. He broke our vows first, so I’m under no obligation to keep mine now.
Stay safe and strong. We all deserve respect and freedom and happiness. Good luck with your journey ❤️ -
Oh KIP I fear him hurting the kids so much. It’s crazy thats the thingsbthats keeping me here most but also the only thing that could force me to leave?? I really need that breaking point…..I’m hoping it will come soon, I need that clarity as I need to leave but I still feel so trapped.
Freedomfighter I’ve already wasted 2 decades of my life with this marriage that I thought was pretty normal….that I’d convinced myself was good or been made to think as good as I deserved. It hurts so much to think it could all be such a lie but also hurts that this is really the best love could be? I’m so sorry you feel your children have been affected by this but thank you so much for telling me that as it’s my biggest fear, I hate that both my options could hurt them and just wish I could see which is the least hurtful. I had stopped watching things on YouTube as it was just making me feel like I could never leave and there was no point but I will try and keep up….tjankbyou so much everyone I do feel so much support here ❤️
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I called it my ‘get out of jail free card’. I waited for years for that breaking point to come. I just didn’t realise that I did not need a breaking point or a ‘get out of jail free card’. I fell out of love with my husband decades before. That’s enough to walk away. It’s only the Fear, Obligation and Guilt that keeps us trapped x
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Ugh husband told me this afternoon he wanted to talk to me tonight after I know I’ve been particularly snappy and off with him today. He sat with a bottle of gin and wrote of a (detail removed by Moderator) page monologue to preach at me about the state of our marriage and what we have to do to fix it. Some points made me laugh (inside), some made me angry and some sorry for him, but most made me doubt all I’ve be been thinking, is this really normal??? I know I haven’t fully communicated when I’ve felt hurt, although I didn’t maybe know atvthe time why??? Is this more mind games??? Please help??……..
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Yes it’s absolutely more mind games. He is the problem. Looking back I can see how pathetic and insecure my ex was. Nothing was ever his fault. He always had to be in control. I had to sit through lectures about libido for hours and hours because aparantly I didn’t have one. It couldn’t be that as a rapist, he made my skin crawl. Completely ignored this fact. Gaslighting is what they are very good at. Don’t waste your breath trying to discuss things. He will just wear you down until he gets the response he wants.
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It’s impossible to fully communicate when they hurt us because we know they will turn the tables on us. Blame us and minimise their behaviour leaving us even more distressed and confused. This is a man who had anal sex with you knowing it hurt while you cried. That is the kind of man you’re dealing with. Ask yourself what advice you would give your daughter, sister or friend?
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I wouldn’t post it as it as he would recognise it if he ever saw it on here, and that could put you in danger. It isn’t likely, but it is possible.
Also, he sat down to talk to you about serious issues with a bottle of gin? That’s neither normal nor healthy behaviour even without the history of rape, the threats, the gaslight and everything else you have described on this thread.
You were, I would imagine, absolutely right to be laughing with scorn internally at his list. If he is like most abusers, a lot of what he is accusing you of will be things that he is doing to you. You are absolutely not the one who should be running round trying to fix the relationship.
It sounds like he senses he is losing you, and having failed with the love bombing he is using emotional manipulation to make you feel obligation and guilt. The good news I guess if he can sense this is that you are stronger than you think, and strong enough that he fears you leaving. Be really careful as you move forward as the only weapon he hasn’t used recently is fear – threats and violence become more likely as you work towards leaving, so try and make sure you have support around you, that you keep yourself safe and that you have somewhere to go. Doesn’t have to be a refuge. I knew when I was planning to leave which neighbours would help me for example. I knew where I would flee on foot (to a local shop), and who I would call from there. I knew if I was able to catch a bus to escape where on each bus route I would go. It’s crazy, but even with these escape plans I didn’t believe I was being abused. But you don’t need to know for sure to plan.
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Don’t believe a word he says. I look back at emails my ex sent me and it’s like he lived on a different planet. He just made stuff up. Things I never said. Things he never said. Total Gaslighting. Ignore his letter. Don’t be running around trying to fix a problem that’s not there. All this letter does is get you thinking about things other than his disgusting illegal abusive behaviour. When you’re thinking about what he writes, you’re not thinking about how to escape, how his behaviour has escalated, how desperately unhappy you are. They are expert at turning the spotlight on someone else. I spent decades trying to fix a problem that was never mine x
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It got to me a bit last night but so much less than I thought andntoday has been so hard as I pretty much have no feelings left for him at all.
I was civil to him and said good morning as was one of his requests on his letter. His biggest thing is accusing me of passive aggression. He says anger is expected in a healthy relationship and for me to hide all emotions but be hostile is the result of relationships with my family as a child. I then found all this rubbish in his notepad about passive aggression and ways to tackle it ‘disable the enabler’ was what he’d starred!! I am being passive aggressive I know I am, I’m being snappy and not answering things because I just can’t face it but I have learnt this behaviour from him and our past arguements with him not I don’t think from my childhood???
I’m pretty calm and focused tonight and considering addressing some of thre points innuis letter. Do you think I should or is this always a bad idea???? -
Always always a bad idea to engage. He will twist everything around. His purpose is to regain control. He’s already got you changing your behaviour to keep him happy by adhering to his request in his letter. By changing your own behaviour you are giving into his controlling behaviour. Rewarding him. It’s why abusive men don’t change because their behaviour gets them what they want. It’s not upto him to dictate your moods and how you should act. The letter is just a smoke screen designed to hide his abuse. It doesn’t matter what he wrote in the letter. It’s just nonsense designed to take the spotlight off him. Don’t waste your energy trying to work it out. They just don’t think the way we do.
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So KIP what do I do?? The tension is just unbearable and I’m just satbin one room and him in another?? Feels like I’m living up to the passive aggressive accusation by not saying anything??? I get the idea that he will twist things but what if I ask him to say nothing like I did to him and have him just listen?? It feels like he knows nothing of what’s in my head about us?? He just thinks I’ve gone off him and he thinks the counselling is to help us eat backnon track not trying to get me to leave?? Feel like I’m just torturing him and winding him up bubjot saying anything????
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Ask yourself what you want to achieve? Eventually I gave up saying anything as there was no right thing to say. Arguing with an abuser is like playing chess with a pidgeon. Even when they lose the will knock the pieces over, sh*t on the board and strut around like they’ve won. Abuse always gets worse. My advice is to work on breaking free. Get all the help you can.
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Suppose I’m wanting to tell him just what I’m upset about and argue about the passive aggression not being from my family but from him??
I want him to realise the therapy is not for me and to get us back together but to get me strong to get away from me and that the counsellor is completely on my side?? But all this is probably silly??? -
So last night he forced me into a discussion during which he said all I was upset about was anal sex a long time ago and other sex stuff I was refusing to tell him. He said ‘it’s not like I raped you.’ I said ‘well what would you call it on holiday?’
Then lots of excuses and minimising and denying. Ended up him saying first if this ‘carries on I will leave, well actually I won’t be leaving MY house’ which panicked me and then eventually he said ‘let’s call it a day’ and I didn’t argue. He said let’s be civil for the kids and make sure they know we love them.
I was panicked and freaking out but then he went to play on the computer. He came to jo N me in our bed as normal but then went in spare room. Now I don’t know what to do today?? Will I face just back to normal. I need a solicitor. Am I too late? Do I push him to carry on with this break up or get my affairs in order and ignore it.
Can’t believe what’s happening -
All I can really tell you is that this is the position my ex forced me into the week before I moved out. I was researching whether I could move out. Like you I wasn’t sure it was abuse at that point, although I knew it wasn’t ok. He issued a lot of ultimatums. For the first time in our relationship, I stayed strong, kept looking for somewhere to move out to, and moved. It took me some time to actually break up with him. I tried for a period of reconciliation, where I was coming back regularly to see him. But eventually I managed to end it and go no contact. Best descision I have ever made.
If I were you I would seize the opportunity presented by his threats and get a solicitor. I would also get all the other support I could. Call women’s aid, tell family and friends if you can, tell your GP. Unfortunately I think that you probably have an escalation of abuse in store now that he knows that he is losing control. Mine went down the guilt path first, and when that failed, punched me. Sounds like yours is going to try gaslighting first – make you think that it never happened (coming to bed as normal), that he didn’t mean his threat of leaving (honestly, he probably didn’t, he just wants you afraid of what would happen if he left, it’s a common fear tactic). But there is a chance he might try anything from love bombing to to violence. I don’t want to scare you, but try to have your phone within reach at all times. There is a chance you will need it to call the police.
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Sorry enofadov you are going through this, I remember it well, its awful.
I too used to get the lectures about my libido blah, blah, blah. I went out and bought books on the surrendered wife, the submissive wife (Christian authors), trying to fix things. Then I got the lecture where I was the way I was due to my family of origin, the fact I’d had a miscarriage, anything and everything etc blah, blah, blah. All to take the spotlight off of him and place it firmly unto me. He also was telling our children, his friends and family the same rubbish (he even told my friend’s husband when he bumped into him) this rubbish. Looked like he was concerned ‘my poor wife no wonder she’s the way she is with her childhood issues, losing a baby, the death of her father yada, yada, yada.’. No I was the way I was because of HIM and his abuse.
I also got the blame and negative things about me in a letter but he got his mum to send it to me. After reading the first few lines I tore it up and binned it. But I was in a state. He was abusing me by proxy. He had my children pressurizing me ‘will you just talk to dad. Dad just wants to talk’. But like KIP says its a bad move to engage. It adds fuel to the fire. I found it safer to not engage. I was starting to go No Contact. Even a good morning said would open the way to engagement which would lead to him being able to hurt me with his words, hostile look etc. I was constantly accused of being passive-aggressive by him and my kids. But I was just trying not ‘to engage and enrage’. He was shouting at me, following me around the house booming at me ‘You’ll be out of this house.’ You’re bullying me!’, When are you going to leave this house!!’ You’re mad. You need to see a dr.’ He rang up a professional before my apt to see them to tell them ‘My wife with her obsessive control disorder’. They saw through him.
I’m telling you all this so you can see you can’t win. If you engage the situation gets worse. If you don’t engage you’re called passive-aggressive.
I did eventually get free. It took time. Keep posting and take it One Day At a Time.
D****d if you do , d****d if you don’t with him. You can’t win in his eyes. Save yourself. Get your affairs in order without him knowing it. Every day do one small step from your plan to leave. Its overwhelming I remember but the day at a time thing helped me a lot.
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Hey LONC, what you said about him following you around the house threatening you is exactly what my ex did. He even locked me in a room once! Even the same words, you need to see a psychiatrist, I’m not going anywhere, this is my house, you’re dragging me down, making me depressed, I’ve never felt this low blah blah blah. I remember because every fibre was telling me to run, but I knew if I ran I would lose all control so I just kept walking calmly, waiting for a blow to come. When I look back I can see just how strong we must be to have survived that kind of abuse. Onwards and upwards
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I was also thinking that they are not looking to solve the problems or work on their marriage. They are looking to regain control however temporary that might be. They will lie, cheat, threaten, bully, blackmail, bribe and do anything else they can. Often in the same conversation. Mind blowing dysfunction.
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I don’t know if it helps if makes things worse that you all recognise this behaviour. Still can’t believe it’s true???
Tonight he came in with his iPad to read me a whole article on passive aggression and skingbif I wanted to comment on anything. In it claimed I was emotionally abusing him by being sulky and hostile like this.
He asked if this was anything I’d dealt with my counsellor about. I wanted to say yes but only her saying I wasn’t but I didn’t.
But then by me not rising to this I’m being passive aggressive I know I am!!
No mention of deciding to finish the marriage last night and I didn’t bring it up as I need time to get things in order. Mind is becoming clearer each hour, but I don’t know just how to live with this right now.
I’ve packed a bag, filled up with petrol and started gathering cash, small steps-
That is really common. Abusive people don’t understand or want to accept that they are the abusive ones. My partner often makes up things that he has heard me said and when I deny them he insists that I have “gaslighted” him. He also believes I am a pathological liar and asks me if I understand that and tells me I need to get into serious therapy. I have not once ever fabricated the horrible things he has said and done to me to anyone. He often says he is such a wonderful man and that I am constantly lying to others about him and his behavior and he has said a few things in the heat of the moment but nothing terrible.
The night of my miscarriage he was in my ear telling me I was a lying f*****g b***h and thought I had aborted the child. He has told me to go kill myself. He has told me I am a w***e, addict, etc… he has cursed at me infront of my friends so much that they are all “liars” and can’t be trusted.
Therapy for abusers is rubbish and will NOT work because the abuser will manipulate the therapist. Therapy is good for survivors and you as a single person. My partner came home with a flyer about healthy relationships and the DV cycle…LOL. I pictured him sitting in a chair talking about how “abusive” I am and how he is constantly subjected to my gaslighting and “lying” and how I can’t stop making up these horrible things he says about me.
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You’re not being passive aggressive. You’re doing your best to avoid an abusive outburst. It’s self preservation and trauma from years of abuse. It’s self defence. And it doesn’t matter what you reply. He will twist your answer the way it suits him. It’s not you. I was in denial too. It really is an incredible shock to realise someone you thought loved you is actually abusing you. It takes time to accept that x
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I would agree with KIP. It really isn’t passive aggressive. The shut down state we go into to try and avoid abuse is just passive. And passive is a sensible idea when you are leaving. You don’t want to engage and put yourself at risk. There is absolutely nothing aggressive about it. All the aggression comes from him. Stay strong, and I hope you get out safely.
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Thank you KIP and Tiffany…..hard to not feel it’s me when he was reading it out. I am being sulky and snappy though???
I like the saying passive but not aggressive! I’ve learnt this behaviour from his anger during arguements not from my childhood as he suggested.
It hurts me him blaming this on my parents as they are such lovely people who’ve done so much for him over the years.
Still no mention at all of him saying the marriage was over which I just can’t believe but then I remember him doing something similar when we were very young and he was out of work and in a bad place following uni and said we were breaking up as he was unhappy I was devastated but then we went out together to the cinema and then nothing was ever mentioned again. Have a feeling it was him just getting me in line somehow?? Very strange????
Anyway big news today I have made an appointment with the solicitor next week. I can not explain the feeling of elation I got from doing this. Just a small step but something positive I feel?? -
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Had a little wobble last night thinking of how overwhelming this all is, but I’ve woken up to some sunshine which is making me feel a bit better.
So after all the rubbish about him wanting me to say goodnight and good morning he came to bed without a word last night and I said good morning to him.
He’s now got our joint bank account on our phone and has been checking through this morning and questioning me on things I’m buying which is a new thing.
I’m thinking about telling a lady from work I really trust…does anyone think this is a good idea? Some people have said I should get as many people to know but some have wanted me against it??? -
Questioning the spending is what my ex did before he cancelled the direct debits and expected me to pay half of everything when he knew I couldn’t. It’s financial abuse and he took over the finances as a way to retain control of me. That’s when he started emptying the account. Pre separation it’s hard to prove what happened to the money from the account. My ex stole tens of thousands and simply said he gave me half cash. Total lies but impossible to disprove. Never underestimate these men. I would confide in anyone who is sympathetic. The trouble comes with people who have no understanding of abuse and can be triggering and hurtful with their comments. I’d say seven out of ten were supportive with some actually opening up about their abuse. Just a couple of people very close to home who just didn’t get it and their comments were dreadful but you soon learn not to confide in certain people but the support of others was well worth it. Abusers thrive on silence x
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Hi enofadov,
I have told my boss at work what is going on purely because one day I was sat holding tears back, couldn’t concentrate on anything so I had to say something as she was probing. I feel much better now that she knows and she’s been really supportive. I would definitely tell someone at work whats going on, if not your boss then someone you can trust. They have a duty of care so if anything were to happen or if you needed time off to sort things then they should be accommodating. Your safety is paramount.Just seen you have got an appt with solicitor that’s fab, well done you for taking those steps.
He sounds (detail removed by Moderator), the bank account thing is so worrying. Just make sure you’ve got your own money to one side!
I keep trying to put money away but then I have to pay for something out of guilt (that he makes me feel) then I’m back to square one. x
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Thank you brokenputty. I have told someone at work but they don’t have authority over me to give me time off and I worry I’m putting all issues solely on them.
You really think it’s that bad? Sometimes I still think it sounds like me just having a moan, thibgs to most people would seem so meaningless but to me so manipulative???
(detail removed by Moderator) he said he was reading youngest child a story, fillexme with panic as it’s not what he does. Did he do that to be nice or panic me about taking children of f me?? Little boy didn’t want him to read story wanted me and then I didn’t want to say I’d do it as I wanted to be nice but then I’m rejecting my child??? Husband said ‘(detail removed by Moderator)’ putting me down tochild?? Can’t hesee I don’t really want to play happy families right now??? 😬 x -
Hi, hang in there, you are doing brilliantly. It’s classic for them to use the children to manipulate us when ‘doing it for him’ isn’t working anymore.
The children usually go with the mother, but they all try to scare us into thinking they will take the children from us.
I expect you are like most of us and are the children’s main carer. He will do everything in his power to put doubts and fears into your head and manipulate you in ways you haven’t even imagined. Mine is.
Write down all the worst things, the earliest and latest forms of abuse he’s used. Keep a diary if possible, but keep it well hidden or he’ll make up excuses for them all and may become more aggressive. If the house is yours then your lawyer should be able to get him out of the house through the court.
Writing everything down with dates etc and giving it to your lawyer is very helpful for them. They will also need all your financial details, savings, earnings, loans, etc and pension details too. Try to get all of it together. They will probably advise you to report his behaviour to the police, but that’s up to you.
You are doing the right thing for you and your children. Happy, healthy relationships need BOTH sides to be loving, respectful and supportive. When you doubt yourself ask yourself if he is listening to you, considerate of your feelings and needs, being respectful etc. Mine is just blaming me, pointing out my faults, how I’m ruining everyone’s lives etc. He is simply denying all responsibility, hurting me and making me feel guilty. That’s not love!
Be prepared and good luck
Oh and you are NOT aggressive even if you have been snapping. He will try his best to wind you up. Stay silent, it’s the safest way. Or ask your lawyer to get him removed and tell them about his behaviour.
Stay strong
Best wishes FF❤️ -
Enafadov, I was once like you fearing that he would take the kids from me but I started talking & seeking help & finally being in a refuge. I realised how weak of a man he was.all he’s crazy tactics were just nothing.Also don’t wait for the kids to grow because that’s when they become emotionally stressed by the whole situation. My young ones have settled better than the big ones here in the refuge. I hope you find courage to leave. Without me worrying about house, I must say it has been nice not walking on eggshells trying to figure out someone’s mood for the day & me & the kids have been driving all over the place visiting friends, eating what we want, watching movies & going to the park. This is just giving me a glimpse of what our future lives will be like. All the best & know we are all cheering for you to find your happiness xx
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Thank you ladies x*x
Ff thank you I’m trying to keep a diary of all the events and thank you for the advice for what to gather for the solicitor
Strength from above thanks for sharing your experiences. It’s nice to hear what can happen.Just more accusation so of silent treatment tonight…but he’s right I am not talking to him, but I’m responding when he asks me things something. I’m just really panicking about the kids again tonight. Ok so I really do agree now that it is better for them to be out of this situation and sooner the better , but how do I cope with the reality of having them go with him??? Overnights, holidays etc…..still causing me to panic.
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All going horribly wrong here.
Husband wanting to spend whole weekend together and tension is crazy. Today I had planned to go talk to my parents after they returned from holiday but he accused me of taking kids without asking and tried to get in car to come with us. I broke down at my parents house and told them everything but I don’t think they fully understand? Mum just said so you don’t think it’s something you can work out?
Currently hiding in bed just hoping for sleep and a new day…..please someone talk to me? -
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You will have to be firm with your parents. His abuse is intolerable illegal and destroying your mental health. Using the children as pawns is a threat these abusers like to make to keep us in line. When he is faced with courts and solicitors, what he wants won’t matter. He will have to do as the courts say if he cannot agree. My ex made all sorts of threats about courts and solicitors. It was rubbish. He eventually backed down when he realised he was getting nowhere. He cannot bully the courts. The main thing is you are protected from his abuse. That you are a rock for your children and they see that nobody has to tolerate abuse.
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Never say never. It’s your life and your choice and you have to live with the abuse that makes you feel this way. I stayed and all I can say is I wish I’d left years ago before the damage was done to me and my child. You don’t have to do anything just now. Gather your strength. Carry on with your plan but keep speaking out. I had a psychologist who was ignorant of domestic abuse and I spent decades trying to solve a problem that was never mine. You deserve better and abuse always gets worse. Keep posting for support and keep learning x
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Your parents are not in your relationship. They don’t know what it is like. You do. My parents were hugely supportive in my leaving – they have always supported me whatever I have wanted to do, and fortunately, as I was engaged and was planning a wedding with my abuser, they had some insight into how difficult he could be. My Mum remains pretty much in denial about the extent of abuse though. She has told me repeatedly that she doesn’t think it is helpful to think of it as abuse, and just to try and remember the good bits of the relationship! It is astoundingly bad advice. I have to remind myself that I spent years defending and praising my abuser and that she has never been in an abusive relationship, so she really doesn’t exactly have a solid background for being helpful. She accepts that I left, and has supported me by taking me back to live in the family home. And that is all I can ask from her.
Unfortunately, your counsellor is wrong. He raped you. That’s a pretty physical activity of aggression.
Also “once smashed a mirror and gave me a little shove but then stopped himself, said this was because he was having health problems and I wasn’t being supportive. He once shut the car door on the back of my legs after a disagreement,”. This is all physical abuse. It’s not currently a frequent part of your abuse, but he has done it before, so he will do it again. The risk will increase as you try to leave, as men who have violent in some way before are statistically more likely to physically hurt you to try and stop you leaving. And the risk of violence is already high because he has been violent before. These are all reasons, not to stay, but to plan and get out as safely and with as much support as you can.
Call the helpline or visit your local women’s aid drop in centre. They can help you plan a safe escape and give you directions to where you can get local support.
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You are doing it to protect your kids.
And if a best friend did half the things your partner does to you then you would cut them out of your life.
So you are protecting yourself too. It’s and awful feeling, devastating to admit that your best friend and partner doesn’t have your best interests at heart. But they are the ones betraying you.
I hope things go well with the solicitor.
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Solicitor went well….he got it instantly, got the profile of husband with me only saying the basics,mentioned the word rape when I’d only described the outline. My dad came and I think it shocked him into some more understanding. Financially I’m calm and know my rights as to leaving or staying in house. I know I can leave with kids, know I should get custody with him seeing the a couple of nights a week….this bit is hard but I have to deal with it. He mentioned me pressing charges and obviously this may affect custody (hard to think of)
I’m still doubting it even happened doubting its abuse.
He has no idea, tonight he’s come home with cuddles and a sermon about how he’s here for me etc…..devastated etc.
I can see behind it but more guilt and doubt.
What do I do now? -
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