The Older Generation

[KIP.]

My mum who is in her (detail removed by Moderator) has been supportive in many ways however she says that if she meets my ex (who raped me and has a criminal conviction for assaulting me) that she would just walk over to him and politely say hello. She seems to think this will shame him. She doesn’t understand that he has no shame and this would send me crazy with anxiety. She also seems to think it was ok for men to grope women as this was just playful fun. It’s happened to me several times when I was younger. In night clubs, at a shopping centre! And my best friend was groped by her boss at work. Grabbing her breasts and showing her his erection. W*f. Why should we put up with that? I asked her if she thought it would be fun for her husband, my dad to grope a work colleague. She was mortified. One rule for her and one for others. Just need to vent. Awareness and education is the way forward. Keep speaking out if you can at every opportunity. No it’s not ok x

[Janedoeissad]

I think the older generation have been conditioned to believe some things are ok. When they are absolutely not!

If they are not coming out with casual racism they are spouting blatant sexism.

I try to educate where I can and tend to ignore the rest.

It’s even harder when it is your own Mother. I’ve had a couple of conversations with my Mum. Tried to explain how some of her relationships have been abusive. She brushes it off.

Sorry not very helpful but your post could’ve been written by me. The older generations “ignorance” winds me up.

[Tiffany]

My Mum is considerably younger than yours, but she spent a lot of time telling me that my ex wasn’t abusive, it was just that different people would put up with different things in a relationship and although it was fine that I had left him I shouldn’t say he was abusive. This is a man who was hitting me, trying to sabotage my work, while simultaneously spending my wages on himself. He convinced me I was profoundly unlikeable, tried to break down my relationship with my family and controlled every aspect of my life from when I ate to what I wore. That is not me being overly demanding in my standards of behaviour for a partner, that is abuse. I think she is still a little under his spell to be honest. But it has been interesting that I have found younger women 20’s-early 40’s have been nothing but supportive and haven’t questioned that I was abused. Older women do seem to be much more likely to question the validity of my experience, point out that others have it worse etc. I don’t know what changes at that point, but now I tend just to tell older people that I left my fiancé because he was controlling, whereas I feel comfortable telling younger women that he was abusive.

[KIP.]

I don’t want to blame anyone and I never would but not one of my family or friends or even doctors or psychologists or psychiatrists ever mentioned the words ‘domestic abuse’. And I was telling them about his behaviour and I was scared of him. This just reinforced my thoughts that it must be something I was doing wrong. It wasn’t until I found Women’s Aid that I got the support I deserved. I even told my friend that he was raping me and she just looked a little shocked then brushed it off. Again making me feel like I was over reacting. There’s a new anti rape campaign that highlights this behaviour and asks friends to support and help report. Hey that’s quite a catchy line. Support and help report! Could start my own campaign lol.

[White Rose]

You’re mum might be right its not what he’d expect.
I bumped into mine in a cafe not so long ago… with one if his women. I was with a friend. We both saw him, she walked straight past but I saw he kept looking at me but whenever i caught his eye he looked away so I walked up tapped him in tbd shoulder and said “Hi how are you?” Then looked at the woman gave her my sweetest smile and said I hoped they enjoyed their lunch. I’ve never seen him look so flabbergasted! I felt real power. Till I got outside then I shook and it knocked me for days but it was worth it and it’s made a difference to my recovery. I know it bothered him as I heard from other mutual friends that he’d phoned them that afternoon to say he’d seen me.
I wouldn’t recommend this approach unless you are feeling pretty strong and have solid support around you.
Anyway back to older generation. I think they put up with a lot but it wasn’t discussed and they probably don’t know what to say?
My ex has targeted my mum too by threatening letter and has turned up at her house several times. She knows to phone police but last time she’d had enough and told him to get off her property and that she wants nothing to do with him and that he is a despicable evil man for what he did to her daughter and grandchild. GO MUM!! Love my mum… she’s ancient (she was of working age during WW2) and amazing. If you need an elder to fight your battles get in touch. She doesn’t cost much to hire just a nice cuppa a piece of cake or a evrn better a glass of wine and a chat and she can be yours for an hour or so x*x

[KIP.]

Hey there. Your mum sounds great. I’ve always lived by the ignore and give him no fuel. By having normal contact with an abuser he will say to everyone who will listen. Look, she spoke to me, I told you she made all this up. If I was as bad as she says she wouldn’t have anything to do with me and neither would her mother. To the outside world including the police and courts unfortunately it just wouldn’t make sense and validation was really important to me in the early days.

[Dragonfly]

My mum’s (detail removed by Moderator) and wants to say quite a lot to the pair of them 🙂 (two abusive men).

I have a friend though (a few yrs younger than me) whose said to me if she bumped into him she’d smile and say hello! Why do that? To me that says ‘you are not an abuser’!

[SunshineRainflower]

I know what you mean KIP, I have struggled too with my mum and her views on men, sex and relationships. It often gives me the creeps what she says and definitely contributed to my lack of boundaries and why I ended up with abusive men.

She said that in the 60’s it was common for married men to have affairs, no big deal apparently, she just rolls her eyes about it. She is very dismissive of a lot of creepy behaviour and it always makes me feel sort of panicky and sick because to me it seems wrong and I don’t agree that men should behave in sleazy ways, cheat on women, grope them etc.

White Rose your mum sounds awesome! A Bluedolphin the lady you spoke to on the phone sounds brilliant too. I guess it’s not all of the older generation, but a lot of them seem to have been brainwashed into accepting unacceptable, creepy, sleazy abusive behaviour, probably because at the time women had fewer rights, divorce was still taboo and they didn’t have as many earning options as we do so it would have been much harder to leave, on top of a very ignorant and unsupportive society and police service at the time. Wasn’t domestic abuse only made a crime in the 1970’s. Crazy.

[KIP.]

Rape within marriage only became illegal in this country in the late 1980s. It remains a huge taboo in society.

[Freedomfighter]

Hi Kip,
My mum about the same age as yours, but mine has always hated my husband and tried everything she could to protect me and prevent the marriage from happening
Unfortunately I was totally under his spell, believing the mask was real. I’ve told her about the control and manipulation, his control and hiding money (well she warned me about it years and years ago, I just didn’t want to believe it). However I could never tell her about the assaults, rape and attempted rapes, the violence etc. If it didn’t give her a stroke she’d quite literally kill him or at the very least have him I’m arrested. I don’t want any of that to happen she doesn’t know him like I do. I couldn’t cope with the smear campaign, knowing what he’s told people about me already. I reduced her to tears the other week when I told her he’d told me that he was never around because he was afraid he would come back to find I’d killed our sons and then myself. I’m so used to him saying cruel things like that to make me feel bad I didn’t realise how much it would hurt her. I quickly went on to say how ridiculous that was since it made him either an obvious liar or the worst father going for leaving them with me in the first place. But it’s reinforced my belief that I shouldn’t say anything.
Your mums reasoning for speaking to him and shaming him, I can relate to. In my case it stems from believing two wrongs don’t make a right. I’ve always shied away from rowing in front of anyone else. When he does bad things I don’t retaliate or try to get him back, I see that as lowering myself to his standards (which I realised are nonexistent).
It’s not that I’m saying I’m right or that it’s wrong to fight back or leave, just that I understand where your mums coming from and probably why the older generation in general seems to make excuses for their behaviour making you feel like they don’t understand or believe you. I think maybe like me they’ve lived in the dark about these things. When faced with it you don’t know what to do so stick your head in the sand. Also I have to battle with the fact that I’m a Christian who was told by my husband it was a sin to get a divorce and God would never forgive me if I left and if I met someone else I’d be the adulterous one. It wasn’t that long ago when a wife couldn’t testify against her husband, that rape within a marriage wasn’t considered rape. Thankfully things are changing slowly for the better. My husband also used to remind me frequently that I vowed to ‘obey’ him when I married him, ever time I didn’t he told me I was offending God. Luckily for me the vicar who married us told me I still had a duty to abide by man’s law and God ‘s. I was still responsible for my own actions, so if it felt wrong don’t do it. I totally agree that education is the only way to solve the problems we face, but it isn’t going to be as easy as just telling the truth. Even when I knew the things he did were wrong, bad I still struggled to find solutions which ‘didn’t offend God’ . It was only after talking to a Jehovah’s Witness in very broad and general terms that she recommended I read some passages from the Bible to try and clarify things for me that I started to understand. Sorry to be harping on about religion, I’m not pushing my beliefs on anyone, just trying to explain my thoughts and actions, but it also might help you understand the way older people think. My husband actually used the Bible to convince me he was doing nothing wrong, I was!
He would select certain lines which appeared to back him up, it wasn’t until I read the whole passages, put his carefully chosen words into context that I realised he was using the Bible to manipulate me. I find this particularly offensive and realise now that he’s what the Bible refers to as a false prophet- preached from the Bible, but acted against its very principles. As I said I’m not trying to convert anyone, I’d be making a shockingly bad job of it!!
I just thought it might help others and help you understand why maybe older people have trouble with this. I think you’re right we desperately do need to education women, but men too, that this sort of behaviour IS abuse and should Not be tolerated. I don’t believe my husband believes he is abusing me. I know he denies everything- it’s what he does. However I think in his mind he doesn’t believe he’s doing anything wrong. Perhaps I’m just in denial, but I think he believes his lies, the same lies his father taught him. He totally idolises the man. Again I’m thinking this is mostly to do with upbringing and beliefs, what we’re taught. A frightening number of men seemed believe coercive abuse is acceptable and women like us are fooled into believing their lies and deceptions. Sad, but I think true. Maybe we need religious leaders to support us and speak out against abuse, define boundaries and teach us how to properly interpret our individual beliefs. If mine can twist the words of the Bible, I dare say other abusers could twist their faiths. I suspect it might be quite widespread!

[White Rose]

Freedomfighter I refused to have obey in my vows…. I’m so glad as he’d have quoted that at me morning noon and night! Mind you he still found time to remind everyone I’d not said obey when he was digging the knife in and playing the wounded party.
Makes me angry just thinking about it now.

[godschild]

Freedom fighter when abusers use the bible its called spiritual abuse, I have had it used against me, I’m a Christian and he has said you need to listen to God or what do you think God thinks of your behavoir.

The attitude or behavoir of the church mostly is abysmal, a lot has been written on this , but many many ministers are abusers them selves, if you google Lesley Vernick, she writes a lot about wrong attitudes within the church on DV. Also google a cry for justice they also speak about the wrong attitude and neglect by the church on DV

Ive had some very negative responses from churches, most don’t have a clue or even want to know about DV

[KIP.]

Freedomfighter, the real test is does he abuse everybody or can he control himself when he wants to. Meaning he knows exactly what he is doing to you and chooses to abuse you.

[Serenity]

White Rose: My ex used to remind me that I’d promised to ‘obey’ him! He was serious! When I reminded him he’d primed to love and cherish me, he looked either angry or uninterested!

KIP: my mum is furious about how my ex has used such extreme financial abuse. She’s been really supportive in that way.

However, she has flabbergasted me in other ways. There’s much in the news right now about people in the entertainment business being accused of sexual assault, etc. Rather than say it’s good that that kind of thing is being exposed, she said that many women exaggerate, and it’s mostly harmless flirting!

KIP, I suppose your mum saying that she would be polite to your ex is her thinking that it’s good to keep the higher moral ground. She might think that shouting at him in public would lower her to his level, or that he might be able to use her outburst against your family somehow. My sister stood up to my ex when she saw him and told him what she thought of him: he told everyone, using it against her.

I can’t imagine that your mum’s politeness would be genuine! At the same time, wouldn’t pretending she hadn’t seen him be better? Maybe she wants to price to him that you and your family are better than him. I’m so grateful for my sister telling my ex what he was- but he hasn’t half used it against her. (detail removed by moderator)

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