What can I do to protect my children?

[itwillbeokay]

Hello,

I haven’t posted in a while, I’ve had alot going on but our new life, me and the childrens, has been fine, pretty good really. We are settled and happy and things are going really well. Our new home is calm and panic-free and we laugh alot. We do what we like and its nice. We’re making new friends and we have wonderful local family support. I had a fantastic job interview, something I had to cancel a few months ago just after leaving. I start (detail removed by moderator) a course, on (date removed by moderator) and I have a specialist DV solicitor appointment on (date removed by moderator) having seen a normal family law one months ago and done nothing since.

Husband still gaslights, minimises, denies, blames, projects, basically still emotionally abuses me from afar and I do low contact and grey rock as much as I can. Some things happened and I found some old posts online of mine of when I was pregnant with our second and how awfully he’d treated me and the fog started to lift. I listen endlessly to youtube help and read books and suspect I have been dealing all these years with a covert n********t, a family of them probably. I just always thought something was a bit off.

Anyway, he sees our older child on an ad-hoc basis. I take both of them to a halfway handover point and up till recently we sat and had coffee etc. so he could cuddle the baby that he doesn’t take. His choice. It started off that he didn’t have the facilities he said. Then “there isn’t much there yet” (he’s just starting to walk and talk and is a joy!) and now, the real reason via message, “you have made it impossible for me to have a relationship with ***** due to the age you took him” so he is basically rejecting our baby to punish me for leaving. Although more worryingly it feels very typical n**********c golden child scapegoat going on. My outreach worker is concerned at the impact this situation will have on both the children emotionally and so am I but I fear if I do enforce a “both child or no child” rule he will literally reject and neglect our baby in favour of our older one who he feels he has bonded with. I should add that he had (period of time removed by moderator) of our baby and was unemployed so was there all day every day but had little interest.

At (date removed by moderator) handover he was cold and the mask was off. I feel this is because he can now see I am not coming back so there is no need to be nice anymore. It has been months of him being Mr Reasonable and looking at me with kind friendly eyes, comments on my appearance etc. But in between times and late at night when he drinks, very covertly intimidating nasty messages that I don’t react to.

(date removed by moderator) when I smiled at our children during handover of one child he suddenly switched (detail removed by moderator) was looking at me with pure hatred and evil in his eyes.

I can imagine that anything and everything that our beautiful, innocent, chatty little boy says this weekend (because it will all be to do with his life, his new life) will be met with a passive aggressive, mean, nasty, confusing horrible comment and I fear he could do untold psychological and emotional damage to him. His anger and hate towards me appears to be growing not dissipating, he cannot stand to see me thriving and takes absolutely zero responsibility for his abusive behaviour and the subsequent departure of his wife and children after putting up with it for years and years and years.

I know the law says I can’t stop him seeing his children and I started this separation process very much not wanting to, however, now the fog is lifting I have huge concerns at the impact his issues will have on them growing up and, I think, his need to get revenge on me for leaving. I am seeing this solicitor on (date removed by moderator). What do I need to do/say/ask/what can I do to protect our children especially the older one who currently goes every other weekend/every few weeks for 2 days and 1 night. I’m worried he will literally wreck him with his inappropriate comments and remarks and brainwashing negatively against me and the fact remains I have done nothing wrong. I just choose to not live with him or the abuse any longer.

Help please xx

[KIP.]

Take a screenshot of your post and show your solicitor. Seeing you happy and thriving is a dagger to his ego. You’re supposed to be crippled and begging for him to come back by this stage. My happiness used to trigger horrendous outbursts. It wasn’t until he was arrested that I managed to work that out. My advice is keep a journal. Write down his comments, his behaviour etc. He will always use contact to abuse you. My advice is to fight with every fibre of your being to stop all contact. If there must be contact then it must be supervised. You’re right to be concerned about your child in his company. Sounds like you’re building a great life for you and your kids and he will not like that one bit x

[Twisted Sister]

I would have thought seriously about stopping the car and talking to him whilst taking your boy out and then going home!

Can you trust this man alone to not use your children to hurt you? To hold onto them to blackmail you?

I hate to cause any alarm and never would have thought that ex would do that to us, but he did, no-one cares, and he got away with it, but I wouldn’t let them go away with him anywhere.

Only you know what you consider safe for them, but from what you say, he has never taken care, showed interest, I.e. actually actively loves them.

I didn’t see it till long after and it is shocking when it all becomes suddenly opn to you.

I could have written that too, about now being free, great support, etc and then it did get far worse and nearly tore the children to bits 😥

Rights of women are free solicitors. Coram childre s centre, nspcc.

Do what you think is safe for them always how can that ever be wrong.

Warmest wishes ts

[itwillbeokay]

Thank you. I’ve taken a screenshot and will take it to the meeting. I am stronger now (kind of) and serious about finding out what I can do to protect our children. I’m learning how to set boundaries but I’m still fearful. I don’t understand what else I can do but let him see them. He has 50/50 parental responsibility. I feel more and more based on his behaviour and my research that it would be better if he wasn’t in our lives but I don’t see that happening, he will ensure he just pops up as and when he’s done his drinking binges and feels the need to see the golden child again and/or abuse me in the process. It’s actually quite scary.

I do feel really on edge sat here tonight without my older son (who is not old, he’s very little!) but what can I do?! I can’t stop him seeing him can I. And if I can for what?! Because I think he’s mean. There’s no diagnosis, he hasn’t done anything wrong to our son. Yes he was emotionally abusive to me for years on end absolutely, he’d fit the criteria for coercive control for sure, I’ve done the checklist. He also drinks heavily and is self destructive and irresponsible and unemployed. But I can’t stop him seeing his children – or child. Because he rejects the baby, “because I’ve made it impossible”.

X

[Twisted Sister]

You’ve experienced abuse, he is being abusive to the children with his goldenchild behaviour, he is unpredictable, has drinking binges, has been incredibly cruel to you and is escalating in hishatred to you. This isn’t loving the children its blaming you and being a bad father.

If his behaviour ticks all the cc boxes flag that up to SS or children s services. It’s can be so hard to assess from a child, or even a teen what sort of time they’ve had, but I and many have reported a very grumpy and difficult gchild on return.

If you have concerns about them\him coming to harm make sure to document dates and interactions, and make another arrangement that as safe. If you are,understandably, scard d have a third party relay arrangements.

Isn’t your dv support giving you clear guidance on this?

Speak to the helpline, they will also have lists of local contacts for you, altho its Saturday night, sadly prob a lot of calls to helpline on a mass booze up night

Do keep posting and we’ll be here to help in any way we can

Warmest wishes ts

[Twisted Sister]

Also,because you’ve already received his knock-backs refusing to have baby due to lack of facilities (whatever!) he doesn’t have a leg to stand on claiming this is on you, as clearly its absolutely not.

Fear makes it so difficult to think thro, especially trying to think the fearful things. Try to keep a log somehow so its cleaerer to see.

[Lisa]

Hello Itwillbeok,

I am sorry to hear about your situation. I am pleased to see that you have had some great support. I just wanted to say that sadly it is all toO common that abusive men use contact with the children as a way to try to continue the abuse and control long after the relationship is over.

It is not clear from your message if you have a child contact order in place but if you don’t and you have concerns over his behaviour and it’s impact on your children you would be within your rights to refuse contact until you have an appropriate order in place. If you don’t have an order at the moment you could be vulnerable to him refusing to return the children. It would be his responsibility to apply for the order and you could push for supervised contact, regular alcohol monitoring, a child parenting class etc. The NSPCC are always very helpful and rights of Women are too- http://www.nspcc.org.uk and http://www.row.org.uk Please also reach out to your local Women’s Aid group and try the helpline. Sundays can be a good day to phone the helpline, particularity if you try them early or late in the day, leave a message stressing you are safe for them to call you back if you need to.

We are all here for you.

Best wishes,

Lisa
Forum Moderator

[freedomtochoose]

Just wanted to reach out to you. I feel I understand your concerns mostly, although my situation has been different. I now have x years of contact behind me and my child is older. I don’t have 50/50 shared parenting thank goodness though. My ex showed his behaviour in court and my female barrister asked why I would be unhappy without a residence order so that she could explain that to the judge. I said that if I didn’t have a residence order I felt my ex would be back in court every six months and it would compromise our at that time new stable life. So the judge told me ex to sit down and basically shut up.

So for the last x years I’ve operated with a residence order. I made it quite detailed so that I would never have to argue with my ex.

What I would say is, and if you have done this already, I’m sorry but I disagree with showing the screen shot of your post to the solicitor. My feeling is that you need this space to work out things in your head. And get moral support. Yes, you do need to listen to solicitor and legal advice, but you also need space to work things out for yourself. Jolly well done on the job interview.

As far as the intimidation of your children are concerned…this is really difficult, given you have 50/50 shared parenting. On a psychological level though, the most important thing is to carry on doing what you are doing. I feared this at the beginning as well, but as time went on and child got older, they understood more about what my ex was doing, and since their secure base was with me, that became the most important thing.

I do wish you well with this. Generally I feel that women with children with an abusive person have the hardest time of all. It is entirely understandable that you have sad feelings when your child is there. So many people don’t get how this feels. I still have nightmares on occasion about it.

Do wish you well. Keep posting
all best
ftc
x

[itwillbeokay]

Thank you so much. I feel very on edge today waiting to get my son back safely later today. And I feel it’s so wrong he is rejecting our toddler but I don’t feel comfortable him having him either!

I now know the look I got as I drove away was a n**********c smirk. A look of evil behind his eyes and contempt and something that said I know I’ve unsettled you as you drive away leaving our son and I’m glad. And he’s right, that’s exactly what it did.

To clarify, we are simply bound by the law that states there is 50/50 parental responsibility if you are married and their name is on the birth certificate. There is nothing else in place, no shared parenting, he never did any parenting when we lived there and now he says half of our two children on an ad hoc basis but roughly every other weekend.

I am scared to withhold contact and put anything official in place as I don’t want to anger him any more than he already is. He does not accept responsibility for his actions and behaviour and truly seems to believe he is the victim. But I’m so concerned at the emotional and psychological damage he could inflict on our child I feel he is leaving me with no choice but to lay it all on the line with the solicitor. I also don’t want to have to see him anymore either. All faux friendliness has gone as he has realised I am not coming back this time.

It’s very hard. And yes I have been having nightmares and dreams about it all too lately.

xx

[Twisted Sister]

I think tyou will feel safer if he cannot reach you and the only way is to blockall routes of access, I was terrified too and all for good reason, but you see, if you’d not been there to do drop off you would have been subjected to his threats.

This what I recommend to get through this

[Twisted Sister]

*would NOT have been subjected to threats

[Twisted Sister]

…don’t forget he always rejected the toddler\baby; in time toddler will know that was a lucky escape, especially if exposed to good male role models and loved for who they are.

[itwillbeokay]

So I’ve collected our older child with the toddler in the back. Husband had a go at me for not updating him that he was now walking. I said I’m happy to update you on things. But the fact is if I’d have updated him with a message or a video he would have made a nasty comment back to me anyway so I feel like I’m not sure how to be or what to do really. Said I probably told all my family but have cut him and his family out. Carried on saying it across the car park although not shouting, he never shouts.

He has created a story in his head that I used him to have our children and that I planned all along to take them back to my family! Like we’re some strange cult or something. It couldn’t be further from the truth, I chose to move with him to where his family are not mine. But I eventually chose to not live with him anymore and moved to where my family are. I can’t do anything right unless it is stay and live with his abuse.

[Twisted Sister]

It’s not your role to update him. You have nothing to say or do with him anymore no matter what he says, he rejected the toddler.

But, first thing s first! Your boy is back as planned and hope he’s alright, now you can stay away from their father for good.

He will have to apply for contact order and you can document everything.

It’s quite bizarre and indicative of wrong-thinking for him to come up with that conclusion, despite everything I’m sure you’ve said about his behaviour, he’ll believe his own c**k ‘n bull lies rather than face the reality of it. Like many say we’re with them for the money.

You can make sure you don’t have to experience that again now by making plans safely to protect you all.

Warmest wishes ts

[itwillbeokay]

Ugh I just feel so sad and guilty all over again for leaving him when I was doing so well. He’s all shaky voices and emotional and glassy eyed and victim like and he still has no job, no friends, his parents are up and leaving him alone to go abroad for a month, I can’t imagine the downward spiral of drinking now. I wish he could’ve made things better not made things over and so full of conflict now. It seems so sad. He was my best friend for what seems like forever, I really thought he was the love of my life. And now here we are in such a nasty situation.

x

[Shipoffools]

Hi itwillbeok,

Just read all the posts in this thread…My children were slightly older than yours, but not teens, when I left/fled my dv marriage. I’d moved counties back to my home city, found a new home, a new job and the children had started new schools, I’d even started dating….life was going good, I was happy…I also had a residency order for my children and my ex had fortnightly contact…

My ex used his contact time to poison Our children against me and quiz them about what I was doing etc. He also dissed the area where we lived and their schools – saying they were rough…he favoured our oldest child and convinced him life would be so much better if he went to live back with his dad, he promised him unlimited Xbox time and gifts and time with dad…

If I had my time over again I would have tried to stop contact or at least get it in a contact centre…

Instead I slowly saw my wonderful new life unravel…by my ex….so (detail removed by moderator) years after leaving, when the youngest child was old enough by law to choose in court both children chose to go live with their dad…I got fortnightly wknd contact but as you can imagine my ex would control that and make threats….(& it gets too expensive to keep going back to court)

Please get advice from DV knowledged help and don’t worry about children missing out, you are protecting from being used as pawns…xx

[itwillbeokay]

Goodness I am so sorry to hear this, I cannot even imagine the pain, or maybe I can. Why are these men so damaged and so evil, why? I’m speechless reading what you’ve written and just so sorry x

[Shipoffools]

Thanks itwillbeok,

I can’t lie…it nearly finished me off when the children chose to go live with their father….he used his contact time once a fortnight to slowly poison the children’s minds, think they call it parent alienation?? I believe it was his final reminder to me I could leave him but he still had control…

I say that because when we were married and all living together he was obsessed with me and my movements etc and he wasn’t interested in his children, he’d rather lay on the sofa watched TV than kick a football round garden with his son…And he wasn’t bothered about doing family days out either….

I kick myself still for underestimating what he would do to me after I left him…he was having an affair behind my back so I thought he’d be glad to get shut of me….I wish I’d recorded things and probably had a better solicitor who understood DV….but I think I was just suffering from trauma as I remember my hair was falling out & I couldn’t eat or sleep for anxiety…. Xx

[itwillbeokay]

That is so hard to read. Mainly I want to know how you are now? Do you get to a good place after all of that?

I can’t work out what the situation is atall. The way he looked at me as I drove away and his increasing anger of me for leaving and taking the children is hard to ignore and yet when I gently quizzed our son on his return as to if his visit had been good he said it had been and all Daddy had said about me was “is Mummy okay”. And also “next time we can do whatever we like” because his parents will be away. I don’t know how dramatic to be! I don’t want him to have no relationship but it’s so, ugh, it’s just the situation I put up with so much horrible behaviour to avoid. Sigh.

Xx

[Twisted Sister]

I had al l that shipoffools, dissing their schools, dissing where I’d arranged contact as being totally inappropriate. He tried to get school moves sorted, but courtbdid actually tell him to stop that, at least that was something, but he sounds abusive and will potentially stop at nothing.

It’s hard to separate yourself, but when you separate your own views over hearing/listening to his you will have your own control back. I’m no good at it, it took me years to separate mentally, still on that process.

It’s heart-breaking to hear how your children went to live with their father after all that, but you will always be their mum,they are young and sadly too easily influenced and I don’t think courts really have a clue were thas concerned. They love you no matter what he says. No words can say enough really hugs.

[Shipoffools]

Hi itwillbeok,

Bless you, I don’t want my story to worry you…..I just totally underestimated my ex husband….it wasn’t until I did the Freedom Program a few months after I’d left him I realised all the different types of abuse being used within our marriage….I was clueless and before that point I was still a little bit in denial any abuse was going on!!

I do believe now, bit radical I know, but anybody who abuses their partner shouldn’t be allowed contact with their child..unless they admit their abuse and have the help that is available for DV abusers first…..

Anyone who can abuse the mother (because we are talking about male partners) of their children doesn’t deserve to get the chance to abuse their child also…

I do see my children monthly because there is a distance, they are ‘just’ young adults now, but they still live with him and are very controlled and influenced by him, fearful I’d say….I have missed them massively (I’ve had counselling and anti depressants to help at times) and I’ve probably buried myself with growing my business…because I needed money for rent/bills etc…then I met a new partner and now I live with him, so yes there has been happy time since.

I’ll never regret leaving my DV husband (he never admitted it) I do regret losing my children….I wish I’d been more battle ready….and not been so passive when he started brainwashing the lads….wish I’d stopped contact…xx

[Shipoffools]

Thank you for your kinds words TS, sorry you have suffered further too…I honestly think now…a man who can abuse an adult they ‘love’ also has the power & skills to abuse an innocent child they ‘love’….I think the DV partner sees their children as pawns to hurt mother with…control is not love….xx

[Anonymous]

I would say go for supervised contact all the way. Im not sure who suggested the book by lundy banccroft ‘WHY DOES HE DO THAT’ if I remember it was twistedsister. My goodness I wish I had read this book years ago. I haven’t been on this site as I have been avidly reading! I am half way through but understanding their behaviour sheds a whole new light on all of the above. Ive realised this isn’t my/our fault its about their distorted values and belief systems. They know exactly what they are doing, there is no excuse for their behaviour. They believe that that they have the right to treat there ex partner and children in this way because they think it is their right to do this.

[Anonymous]

Protect your kids first, if this goes to court the truth does eventually come out because these men have repeated patterns of abusive behaviour. Times are changing and people have a better understanding of DV. My eldest daughter takes her dads side over mine. My younger child however is a different storey, happy, confident and I believe if I had allowed access he would have poisoned her against me. It sounds dramatic but it is a tactic to destroy you. Don’t let that happen I wish I had known then what I know now! . Much love xx

[itwillbeokay]

I don’t even know how to begin down that route having had this ad hoc thing going on for months and months with one child going every two weeks for 2 days and 1 night. How do I now dictate that can’t happen and for what reason to him, what do I even say?! Oh the internet tells me you’re a covert n********t and you’re probably not going to do our children any favours emotionally really so you just can’t see them anymore. He’ll go mad and I don’t even know how I can do that.

🙁
xx

[Shipoffools]

Hi itwillbeok,

Please re read the post Lisa the moderator send…the info you need is there…ring the help lines provided, they will explain what you need to do next to protect your children…knowledge is power and it will be a solicitors letter that informs him what’s happening re contact not you yourself…either way you need to get official contact set up. Then you have covered yourself…xx

[Shipoffools]

Ps the law can stop a parent having contact (seeing) their children if it is proven to be harmful to the child, in family court they see it as what is in the best interest for the child….xx

[itwillbeokay]

Thank you. Just read it again and set a reminder to ring tomorrow evening for more advice.

Xx

[Anonymous]

Reading all of the above confirms this is rife. I am worried that I am coming across as very crass and maybe very black and white. To be honest that is how I feel. To explain; as my daughter got into her teenage years (her father was gone by this point)she started to push me around the house, she pushed me to the ground on many occasions, basically physically abusing me in front of my youngest. I suffer with an illness so I am kind of frail (in body that is) She started to call me a cripple, said I had over reacted over her father’s behaviour. Basically mimicked his behaviour, this had been increasing over a period of time. I couldn’t believe her perception of me, her mother,and she had turned out like this. After all he had tried to take our home away from us, he had walked out on us then threatened suicide to get back home again. I still cant believe this turned around so badly on me because I thought I had done my best. The problem was I had allowed her to witness his abuse and in turn she ended up having zero respect for me. We don’t speak at all now. That is why my stance for my youngest daughter was zero contact. I realise now that children witnessing domestic violence is abuse toward them inadvertently. It was the biggest mistake of my life. xx

[Twisted Sister]

Dear DIYmum

It’s shocking and seems so unreal or possible at the time doesn’t it, but this is how it happens,but it certainly isn’t something that you ‘allowed’ to happen. He did this and has total responsibility for his abusive actions in teaching her to treat you so abusively, I know of women in refuge who has the same thing happen and I think it extremely difficult for any child to make sense of that world and he gives them a view of the world that’s extremely distorted and I think not even weight is given to that.

But its certainly not your fault… Warmest wishes ts

[Shipoffools]

Dear DIYmum,

Totally agree with Twisted Sister….what happened was not your fault, your daughters behaviour was learnt from seeing DV….she is a victim of DV although her actions towards you, her mum, were very wrong….I hope sincerely in time as she matures you and her can have a relationship and she is very sorry and you can forgive her, because I think she will need you…when she realises what a lovely mum she has.

Carry no guilt, you did the best you could in difficult situations, which is all any one could ask of you xx

[enofadov]

Itwillbeokay I know you know my story.
When I had my cafcass interview she said as the main carer you can stop contact at any point if you are worried it is not in the best interest of the children. X

[itwillbeokay]

Thank you, that’s useful to know.

Problem is I’m too fearful of repercussions to veer too far from what he wants and says a lot of the time.

xx

[KIP.]

I learned to do the opposite of what he wanted as what he wanted was just to further abuse. It really doesn’t matter how nice or compliant you are. He will simply change the goal posts. Decide what you want. Draw a line to the finish line and do not deviate (obviously keeping yourself legally protected as you go). Any kind of appeasement will be seen as a weakness and he will simply exploit it x

[itwillbeokay]

Thank you, that helps.

I’m going to ring Rights of Women again aswell.

x

[Anonymous]

Thanks ladies for all of the reassuring replies 🙂 I know in my heart that is so true. Its fighting through the shame and fear that is so paralysing, for sure. Sometimes its a case of taking a deep breath, taking the advice to stay safe and push forward. Never give up hope:) x

[Author]

Posts