Am I just as bad??

[Starmoon]

Push me pull me. I convinced myself he wasn’t an abuser… that it’s all just over analyzing everything, that If we simplified everything, it’s all just parts of our character. My parents do very much side with me and dislike my ex… but often when I’m trying to talk to them and others, to explain the situations with him that I’m confused over, they often tell me that I also behave in a similar way… which to me confirms that I’m just as bad as him- If not worse… so then that confirms one of the many reasons I go back to him- and that’s that I’m not perfect, I make mistakes, I’m hard to be with and no one but him will ever love me.
I constantly wonder if my reactions to him are rite or fair… maybe they are even abusive :,(. If I didn’t say or do certain things- he wouldn’t feel the need to act the way he does. He’d said ‘I’m not reacting this way for no reason- you’ve made me do it’ or ‘you’ve pushed my buttons’. I didn’t deliberately ever push his buttons or make him angry. I don’t calculate ideas in my head… (detail removed by Moderator), I’d arranged a family night in, food and a film- he’s depressed after being sacked and I was trying to make him feel better. I’d felt on edge after he’d lied about the (detail removed by Moderator) a few days before- but this was my way of trying to give him something to say I was trying to get past it. Part way threw the film he started looking at his phone and then said he was looking forward to a fight (some boxing or something) that was going to be on tv in a few days… I quietly asked him not to talk about it in front of my daughter… I hadn’t thought past that… I know I don’t like that sort of thing and I didn’t want any of it being explained to her. He bit back at me, loudly saying he could talk about what the f**ck he liked.. I tried again to discreetly explain why it wasn’t something I wanted to talk about infront of her… he continued to raise his voice and get angry that I’d asked him not to talk about it. I really don’t know why I thought it was the rite thing to do asking him not to talk about it… I just thought that sort of thing was inappropriate in front of her. He stormed off upstairs…. putting a dead end to our family night. After a few minutes I went up after him and said that he’d snapped and I hadn’t meant to offend him but didn’t particularly think it was an appropriate conversation to have around our daughter… he then started asking what the hell I thought he’d do if she asked about what the fight was, I said I didn’t know, I hadn’t thought that far- he said I must’ve done, I must’ve thought he was going to talk about all the violence and I must’ve thought he was going to show her the videos… I really hadn’t thought about any of that- I’d just thought we shouldn’t talk about fights in front of her. He called me a hypocrite saying we argue in front of her and that I’m not perfect so had no rite to tell him what he could and couldn’t do…. I genuinely hadn’t thought about it that was and I said I was sorry. I also said it felt like he didn’t have any respect for the fact that I just didn’t think it should be spoken about in front of her. He said that I had been looking for an excuse to argue with him all day because of him lying to me a few days before. but that wasn’t true either… I’d taken the family out to a (detail removed by Moderator) that day and arranged a night in… I’d done my best to make him feel wanted despite being upset about the lie previously because I knew he was depressed.. at various points when he threw those things out, I shouted back saying that I was angry about the lie but that was nothing to do with me asking him not to discuss that fight in front of my daughter. Eventually I became angry myself and said more that It felt he didn’t respect me… I hadn’t wanted an argument, I knew he was sensitive and depressed but I hadn’t meant to upset him. Initially I’d tried to calmly talk to him about it all but the more he shouted at me, the less I could gather my own thoughts on why I’d done it in the first place. Was I comply wrong to ask him not to talk about it in front of her? The argument carried on and eventually he said it’s over and slept on the sofa. The following morning he made me toast and we tried to talk. I said I understood him feeling cut off and I was sorry but he still continued to pick it apart and ask me to explain why I thought he’d go into detail about fighting in front of her and so on… and all I could say was that I didn’t know… all I knew was that I didn’t think it rite to talk about it… and if she’s heard him saying it- she would’ve asked about the fight and that would’ve lead to him having to explain something to her- which I wanted to avoid. But he kept telling me I didn’t understand and that I’d never ever understand. That I had issues etc. all this was only (detail removed by Moderator) ago…. but was a situation I can’t understand how it escalated. I instantly apologized for cutting him off and said I didn’t mean to upset him… but simply hoped he’d understand why. Then I wonder would I have acted the same way if he’d told me not to talk about something… maybe I would. I can understand being upset if you feel you’re being undermined or told not to do something… gah I just don’t know anymore :,(

[Relieved]

Hi Starmoon, well done for posting here. Yes you are right that your partner is abusive – you are not doing anything wrong, you are trying to appease him, walking on egg shells around him and he is putting you down by saying you are as bad as he is. I found myself questioning whether I was the one making him act the way he did, this is a ploy abusers use to control us, to keep us second guessing. Look at the website http://www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/ and the book Living With The Dominator – they both really helped me to understand his behaviour and how it was affecting me. Think about how his behaviour is affecting your daughter – this was the catalyst for me to finally end the relationship. Keep posting – we’re here to support you x

[Starmoon]

I just keep thinking of more things to add to the list of reasons why I may actually be the problem (I’m not saying he’s perfect). The day I found out that a family member had died, we were away on a family brake. I’d been up allot of the night with our youngest so I was tired and upset. But I drove home because his new antidepressants were making his drowsy. He’d been playing about with the kids and seemed really lively but suddenly was very ‘monotone’. He just went from being fine to seeming really down, he didn’t just seem tired, so I asked him a few times over the trip home if he was ok, if it was just that he was tired or was there something els bothering him. He bit my head off over this saying that I was prodding and poking him. I tried to say I was sorry and I was just not used to him being so quiet and I was worried. I think I was being selfish as I was looking for reassurance myself and feeling needy, I should’ve just left him to it. Part way threw the drive home, he asked me to stop at a shop. Asked if I’d wanted anything, when he came back to the car, he’d forgotten what I asked for. I felt on edge because of him seeming so quiet previously and when he snapped and said he’d go back, I snapped back and said forget it- I’d go. He then swore and said I had issues, stomped back to the shop and then went to smoke. I said I was sorry for snapping but I was tired and (detail removed by Moderator) had just died. Looking back at it- it’s all my issues, I expect too much from him, it’s not his fault he’s depressed and his medication was making him sleepy… I was feeling needy because of the situation but that’s selfish and I was putting that on to him. Since him getting the sack I’ve struggled and I know I envisage situations before they happen… I over think and worry. I have anxiety and crumble under pressure.. when he got the sack, i argued with him allot because I thought it was something he could’ve avoided… to be honest. When he was sacked he came across to his boss as if he didn’t care about his job and he told them he could stick it, all because he’d been in the wrong and wasn’t willing to say sorry. I think if he had- he’d have just been given a warning. Anyway, I was so stressed because we’d just re done (detail removed by Moderator) on finance in my name- it was all to have a fresh start for when he moved back in. I hadn’t wanted new stuff but he convinced me. He assured me he’d pay it off as he was the one earning. So once he lost his job- I knew I’d be the one under pressure to pay it and I had no idea where the money was going to come from. At the same time, we had to cancel a holiday we were also paying for but we had to pay a cancellation fee. All was coming out of my account so I literally had a melt down. I couldn’t just relax and believe he’d pay it off. I cried and told him I didn’t believe he’d do it because he’s changed his mind over those sorts of things and been unreliable in the past… he did pay the cancellation fee with some (detail removed by Moderator) work he’d done.. so I obviously said I was sorry… but doesn’t that sort of thing make me the abusive one?

[Copperflame]

Hey…a few things here:-

Abuse is a choice made by the abuser and is NEVER the survivor’s/target’s fault.

You are a human being with positive and negative qualities, faults and flaws just like every single human being on this planet. Each and every one of us has issues and follibles and that’s what being human is all about.

No one is perfect – and how do you define perfect anyway? The problem is abusers have this twisted vision in their heads of what the perfect woman is supposed to be like, i.e., a woman who wants nothing more in her life than to be the man’s devoted servant, who will willingly service all his needs and have no needs of her own. She will agree with all his views and opinions and have none of her own. She will give up all her hopes, dreams and aspirations and disown all her family and friends in order to become his devoted lap dog.

Of course no human being can live up to these exacting standards, but the abuser’s controlling mind, when the woman fails to live up to his unrealistic expectations, she deserves a punishment. In other words he uses her perceived imperfections to justify abusing her.

In answer to your question, no you are not just as bad as he is.

No matter who you are;

No matter what your faults;

No matter what your issues;

No matter what your quirks;

No matter what your insecurities;

No matter what your likes and dislikes;

No matter what your views and opinions;

No matter what your imperfections;

YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE ABUSED. Period.

There is no excuse for abuse. Abuse is a choice for which the perpetrator alone is responsible.

There is nothing wrong with you; you are a normal human being just like everybody else. And as a human being, you are worthy of being loved, being treated with kindness and being treated with respect.

Big hugs to you x*x

[Tiffany]

One question? Can you imagine him sitting up googling how to be a better partner? Is he worried about how his behaviour affects you? Your first and second posts both look like things I might have written when I was with my abuser. He also had mental health issues and I excused so much bad behaviour and ignored my needs in favour of his for years. Ultimately though, mental health is not an excuse for abuse. Sure we can get snippy, or be unreasonable. But that is different from systematically wearing people down and controlling them. From your posts I have learned that you apologise a lot and he doesn’t. That he made you buy things you didn’t want and couldn’t at that time afford. And that he is fine with kicking off and swearing infront of your kid when he has upset you. Also he twists arguments so that you go off topic, so that you are the one in the wrong. And this is according to him all your fault. All this sounds pretty abusive. And pretty familiar. And you, in your perception are not sensitive enough to his needs, and get angry sometimes. And overthink things. These faults sound like the fear of every abuse victim. They are absolutely not faults that warrant the kind of behaviour you are experiencing.

[Bridget Jones Is Free]

Hi starmoon,
I am glad you posted this story because it’s typical of emotional abuse, gaslighting and projection. Have you ever gone on YouTube to look at manipulation tactics used by abusers? You would find answers as to how it takes place, you would find explanations for the “word salad” and circular conversations you are subjected to.
In the end you find yourself having to apologize for something you didn’t cause, nor cannot believe you started. Your story is a typical scenario between an abuser and his/her victim. It takes “education” in this type of emotional and psychological abuse to clearly see how it unfolds. Having suffered from this type of abuse myself, and I still do, I now avoid communication with my husband, which could be taken for silent treatment imposed by me, but I know that any communication, be it an opinion or a request or an explanation, will always end up with an argument I didn’t want to start.
Everything you will say will be twisted to such a stupid extend and at such “speed”, you won’t realize one bit what’s happening until you take an educated look at your conversations with him. Once you know how to analyze the abuse you are subjected to, you will start seeing patterns appear and you will find his reactions and thoughts highly predictable.
I now know what’s coming so I avoid my husband like the plague. I am living in total emotional limbo, an environment full of emptiness and emotional black holes. It’s hard to sustain but I prefer to live as if my husband wasn’t there, it gives me time to think. I have personal reasons pushing me to wait before I decide to divorce. Cannot say for safety. But at least this avoidance allows me to live semi free from the psychological abuse my husband dishes out. I suspect he even waits patiently for me to find it impossible to keep up this protective silent to savour my defeats which do happen from time to time.
My children however live the effects of my silenced attitude. None of us are happy, nothing is normal.
But I wanted to advise you not to doubt yourself and to stay focused on yourself. The discussions you describe about not wanting him to speak about fights are perfectly legitimate, they should lead to compromise IF he was naturally capable of putting his child’s needs as his priority, having the capacity to understand what discussion or hinted discussion is appropriate or not.
And that is what abusers cannot do. So you find yourself having to explain basis principles, over explaining yourself and justifying almost everything, replaying the scenario in its entirety, step by step, which in itself is an over explanation. Look that up too on YouTube and you will be amazed at what you find.
The problem is we are naive and kind and so baffled by the types of attitudes we face that we forget to stick to our boundaries and with each situation arising, abusers manage through psychological manipulation to make us doubt ourselves, and we blame ourselves for upsetting them. Wrong!!!!
Take a step back, and observe the illogical and chaotic conversations you are forced to engage into. Abusers are natural experts at manipulating you by abusing your empathy, your self esteem which they destroy day by day, wrecking your mental health via torturing you as a result of non sense in every interaction they have with you.
Once you clearly understand the manipulation tactics, you will see how you cannot be anything else but an easy pray for him, he pushes all your buttons and feels no remorse for it. You need to quickly disengage from that kind of rubbish. By doing this you will start to regain your power, your sanity, and you will manage to ground yourself again, you won’t need to ask if you were right or wrong, guilty or not, you will know HE is wrong, and HE is guilty of emotional abuse.

Don’t doubt yourself, your view on the situation is correct, he lacks respect, compassion and a sense of parental responsibility. You shouldn’t have to teach him. He is an adult acting like a tantrum child wanting to blame someone else for his actions.

Please look on YouTube at emotional abuse, over explanations, gaslighting, projection, etc. You will be massively amazed. It’s not you, it’s him!
Xx BJ

[Starmoon]

Thank you so much for your replies I hadnt thought about YouTube before. I’ve. Even in and off here for years and read a number of books but never thought about you tube. I’ll definitely look x

[Bridget Jones Is Free]

Like you i felt lost, confused, totally perplexed and…guilty. But guilty of nothing!
Once i started digging deeper and searching for answers, i found lots! And those answers make sense. I started understanding personality disorders, childhood traumas, disfunctionality, destructive relationships etc.
It’s worth spending time looking for information, it will stop you going in circles, staying on the same circular line and get off the train! I thank a previous participant on this site, she was called Healthyarchive. And many more ladies like Serenity and KIP and many more.
What i voice is not new, but it was to me. What victims of abuse do very often is deny the problems, minimise and normalise abuse because we are primed for accepting it. We walk into disfunctional relationships because we are often used to them from an early age. And by staying instead of leaving, we regretably and unwittingly pass on the baton to our kids, making abuse a transgenerational tragedy.
Look up boundaries, in fact let the follow on videos guide your discoveries…the rest is up to you. We have the power to disengage, then leave, with huge amounts of courage but looking at our own disfunctionality is essential too, it means repairing years of conditioning.
Knowledge is power. What we do with it takes courage. And courage gets us and our kids to safety.
Keep posting Starmoon xx

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