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We can talk about it in an age appropriate way. We can talk about consent. There’s a helpful Tea video which explains well how we don’t force tea down someone’s throat.
It’s important not to be specific. Whether we like it or not, children will have experienced the atmosphere even if we think we’ve protected them from the worst. They will have their own stories to tell.
Women’s Aid can be really helpful to support children.
Keep adult conversations between adults. It’s very difficult when children may well have picked up the behaviours of the abuser and you may need support in challenging and changing those behaviours.
It’s important not to blame the perp in front of the children. They’re still the other parent, and children don’t have the language or the understanding to articulate what’s been happening, so it’ll probably express itself in behaviour.
It can really help to tell school about family life so they can keep an eye on the children, and also your GP can support you. It’s a difficult one. Baby steps.
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Thank you for your advice maddog. My children are adults. Is there a certain way to talk about DV tht happened to adults connected to the perp?
I’ve been safely away fm DV for a long time & I no longer blame the perp, I understand they had a traumatic upbringing. (They choose negative ways to deal with their pain bc they knew no better.)
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Hi there Shipoffools
Long time no hear! Glad you are long time away, and hope that means life is good for you.
I believe it can be incredibly difficult to have this conversation that you are seeking help with.
First of all, they may not be ready to talk to you, or anyone about it, yet. They may never want to, but that doesn’t mean you can’t ask, or just check out with them whether there was anything, anything at all that they would want to ask, and that you are open to any and all of their thoughts around their childhood experiences with their specific family dynamic.
If they are in their late teens/early twenties, there will probably still be lots of opportunities arising around other life situations for them that will draw on many of the ways of managing the emotionals and personal interactions/boundaries.
Had you thought about any form of family counselling as a possible way to go, again, presuming that they do want to open up this channel.
Are there any questions or unresolved issues that you may be looking for in having these conversations also? I feel there are often lots of unresolved issues between mothers and children coming through and out of abuse. There’s often little sense of closure/answers, due to the complexity and depth of impact psychologically and emotionally, so it can be a real big hurdle. There’s also an organisation that offers support for survivors of childhood abuse, I’m not clear however, whether that could be sexual related only, but it could be worth calling some of the major support organisations to see what they are aware of, even just looking at your local council website, or police pages.
I think you’ve identified a bit of a gap out there for the younger adults to source and access helps like this. GP may be another source of help.
Have you checked out the options under ‘support & signposting’ on here? I recall its organised in sections, some for the younger survivors.
Good luck with your offers of support to them and hope it goes well, it can be a long journey for you all picking up the bits in the aftermath.
Warmest wishes
ts
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That’s a different kettle of fish, ShipofFools. Thank you for your kind and generous response. The organisation TwistedSister may be referring to is NAPAC. They cover all sorts of abuse. It may be worth calling them for yourself
It’s so hard to see our children taking out the abuse on themselves. It manifests in so many different ways, and there was once a time when we didn’t recognise what was happening.
My own children are now old enough to start reading through the evidence if they ever want to. They’re still too young to understand and have much growing up to do. Although we rarely speak about their dad, we do speak about other members of his family. Sadly we can’t be in touch as they’d compromise our safety.
You’ve done incredibly well to step aside from your perpetrator. I feel neutral about my ex. I really pity the little boy he once was, being used by his parents as they did. I have no pity for the man he became. I haven’t found a way to approach the subject directly with my children, and I’m in little doubt that I will be asking the same question as you in the years to come. We can only do what we can, and we can’t protect anyone else from themselves. Hopefully we can provide a safe haven for our children at any age, out of the shadows.
It’s a life in progress, and people can recover from self-destructive habits.
When domestic abuse is involved, there’s an extra layer of grief and loss. I’ve been looking at that over the past few years.
Press on regardless and do your level best to protect yourself. xx
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Thank you TS for your reply – lots for me to look into and think about there…
Thank you Maddog for your reply.
My dilemma is not being able to speak my truth to my adult children –
If I say I was in a DV relationship I fear spoiling the great relationship I have with them…(my truth is too uncomfortable for them)
If I don’t mention it I feel I am endorsing DV is OK & something tht shouldn’t be talked about..(Which I totally disagree with)
My adult children do not see their other parent as a perp of DV, they have felt his control on them when they were children & as teens but he was never physically violent to them, they are afraid of him though. He’s strict. They knew to behave for him.
The perp (my ex-husband) was violent to me but not in front of the children, it was usually when he wanted sex & I said no.The perp specialised in psychological abuse – mind games, gaslighting etc.
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It’s very telling that the children are afraid of their dad. My ex was similar. Loads of silent treatments, sulking, general man-child/abusive behaviour though rarely violent.
It took me many years to be able to speak to either of my parents about being a child. Little things came out every now and again. I was terrified to tell my mum that I’d been raped. I told her once and never mentioned it again. We’re part of the same system but with very different viewpoints, as though we’re looking at the same thing from different angles. My mum couldn’t speak to my dad about my life, and it was only after she died that he faced uncomfortable truths and he told me about things that had happened to him.
It’s so difficult. It takes a while for children to see their parents as other adults. Chip away gently. YOu’re there for them which is the most important thing.
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Thank you maddog. Sorry to hear about you’re past experiences too. Good luck with everything.
Thanks again TS for your lovely reply, too.
Thanks both for your advice. I am currently on a (very long) waiting list for some free local counselling to talk through my above question.
I agreed, views have changed re DV over the last 20yrs (in the right direction) now it’s realised DV efforts children (without violence towards them). My ex sulked, had road rage, would interrogate us – he insisted on knowing every detail & he would re-pquestion to try catch me or the kids out!! He said he hated lies & always wanted us to tell him the truth – which he would later use against us at punishment!
(Ironally – I caught him having an affair, which gave me the courage to end the marriage. Not until afterwards did I do the Freedom Programme, boy my eyes were opened up!)
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I think you speak very clearly of the sense of a haze thats difficult to break through, and my view has been to tackle it indirectly, to never speak directly of their father, but to use examples that present in daily life when discussing others issues, or things that come up in the news, and demonstrating where boundaries lie. To use an example you state thats very powerful is they are scared, and I would say thats a very powerful place to start. Its very easy to simply state how wrong it is to be scared of a parent, or anyone that you are in a relationship with, but especially in an intimate relationship, or one of power imbalance like parent and child.
There is lots of talk around on SM about toxic relationships, which imply that the responsibility for that is shared. Undoubtedly some relationships are, but where children are concerned the ‘toxicity’ can only be coming from one direction, unless the child themselves is very compromised in some way emotionally/psychologically and presents a risk to a parent.
They can do the workings out for themselves after being presented with such key facts, and reflect on how they are fearful of their father, despite thinking that he’s a ‘lovely dad’, and thats cognitive dissonance, i.e. both statements cannot be true as they directly conflict.
The fear that they have is also exactly the same as the fear they would have of physically violent experiences. They clearly fear the threat of something unspoken, easy to do with children, it only takes a glance or being shown up and embarrassed, humiliated, and so on for the child to become fearful of speaking or doing perceived ‘wrongs’.
They will have, I’m sure, lots of information already around domestic abuse, but cannot yet apply that to themselves, and we’ve all been there so can understand their difficulty in this.
warmest wishes
ts
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My kids are teens and I’ve been open with them about how I feel, what I understand we’ve experienced and trying to explain their dad doesn’t responde like a “normal” person due to his childhood trauma and n**********c traits now. They also are under the influence and receive the gaslighting, lies, confusion, anger… they need tools to learn how to best deal with this. I don’t have anger agaisnt ex and I always still encourage kids to see dad, explain his importance in their upbringing and acknowledge my mistakes too, but I find being open about what we feel and behaviours and learning from this is important. It has created a bigger bond of trust between us and they both seem fine and able to still relate with dad but being more aware. They absolutely see why I wanted to divorce, even if they are sad or nostalgic for what we had before as there were good moments, but our life is easier and happier now their time with dad is more limited.
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TS, again thank you for your brilliant reply. I loved your mention of cognitive dissonance & I agree how conflicting it is to feel scared of a ‘loving’ parent.
(Ironally I was scared of my mother, growing up, she was emotionally abusive – it led to low confidence. I didn’t recognise red flags or know what healthy boundaries were!)
When my kids were teens & I was separated fm my ex, I would use news headlines to start up conversations (without saying ‘your Dad does that….’)
The kids definitely had fear of his threats – the glances, the ‘don’t push me too far or you’ll regret it’ threats & aggressive body language towards them as they became bigger teens.
Eyes wide open, I think you’ve done a good thing to always be honest – looking back after we’d left him, I tried to shield the kids fm what was going on….then I began to panic when I realised my ex was using his contact time to question the kids about me – who I was seeing, where I was going (I knew he was bc he’d send me texts with details in) I informed my divorce solicitor also but they weren’t concerned. The kids were definitely brainwashed into telling him everything – no lies (so I stopped telling them things tht would be of interest to him).
My now adult children would not consider themselves to have been emotionally abused. But I know they were bc of the reading I’ve since done on DV & on human psychology.
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Its good to see your reply, and I’m sorry I didn’t see this earlier. I’m not getting notifications of replies to post (some, in part, I believe because when replying and be notified of a reply, the reply button attached to the specific post has to be used, filling the box at the bottom of the screen doesn’t necessarily alert the poster that they’ve received a reply – is my understanding of it!).
At their ages, all those conversations around external, yet similar and familiar situations for them, are so useful to help with their own thought processes and perspectives.
A lot, including me, still believe that DA is one thing. Although its all driven by the same motivations it can manifest in so many different ways, many of which do overlap, and with familiarity we can see more clearly.
warmest wishes
ts
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Hi, lots of great advice has already been given… my children are mid/older teens… As they experienced the gaslighting, grooming (big gifts if they were ‘good’ and went where he wanted etc, sulks, angry outbursts and lots more.. in other words children are also victims of abuse when in an abusive relationship… I did the Freedom programme and educated them, they read the book so as to learn what a healthy relationship is and the different tyroes of abuse. I didn’t say oh your dad did this or that, I let them come to me for open chats … they can both now recognise abusive behaviours and are learning all about green flags too.
My daughter asked me if her dad was a narc… I told her that I couldn’t answer that as that’s a medical condition (quite rare) which only a medical professional could diagnose.
For me, educating my children on DA helped them and me as I also learned how my abusive husband’s behaviour had affected them.
Big hugs ❤️ it is so difficult to navigate
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Thank you for your message here to help.
Yeah it is difficult- wanting them to have knowledge without hurting them further….
I do have a good relationship with them both now they’re adults. I’m alot more laid back & open minded than their Dad so they levitate towards me with any life problems. They only call in & see their Dad at Christmas or birthdays. They’ve learned not to tell him too much….
Best wishes to you
And best wishes to TS, Maddog & Eyeswidesopen
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Ship of fools,
I left with my 4 kids, just before the eldest (detail removed by Moderator) were in their teens, it was SO hard to explain why we hoped and left, one day after they finished school, without saying goodbye.
The middle 2, were the most directly affected, and desperately wanted to live with him. They were adamant. I didn’t stop them from seeing him, but the courts did. Due the way he was treating my eldest, and what he was texting her. (She changed her number, numerous times, but the younger 2 gave it too him)
I made them stay with me, until the took their GCSE’s, and as promised, I bought open ended train tickets, on the day after their last exam.
Giving them money, the tickets with the advice – don’t let your dad see the money, it is yours. Choose what your next steps are, and my door is always open for you to return.
I waved them off, (detail removed by Moderator), leaving them to make their own choices and opinions about him.
They had had spent (detail removed by Moderator) years, and (detail removed by Moderator) years with me as their sole parent. He lasted less than (detail removed by Moderator) months in the eldest of the 2, before his choice was made to return. The next one got to (detail removed by Moderator) months, before returning.
They were far better behaved upon return, the youngest lasted less than (detail removed by Moderator), before it went t**s up!
The 3 eldest are now in their 20’s, eldest has totally disowned him, to the point he has no idea his 2nd grandchild exists, the next eldest only phones to when he feels guilty, the 3rd, is very quick to defend him, but doesn’t phone him, as far as I am aware. The youngest, phones him every month or so. She always talks to me, and likes me go listen so she can ask me about it.
Interestingly, about 6 months ago, my second child apologized for his behaviour, and told me his dad actively encouraged him to misbehave, to make sure we returned to him!! Then added I was not as naughty as my younger sister!!!
I responded, no, BUT your tactics weren’t working, is she going to up the game, and be worse. So I blame neither of you, you thought you doing the right things.
I have left it open for them to discus with me if they wish.
Good luck
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