Bitter pill

[Starmoon]

I’m reading a book I found a few years ago (when I first thought it mite be abuse) it’s written by the survivor of an abuser . I’ve only just started to read this book.. she could literally be describing my ex… if everything she’s saying is true and it really is that sort of abuse- then nothing he ever said or did (non of the good stuff) was real… it was all a means of gaining fuel from me.
I’ve been able to relate to this sort of explanation of abuse over all. But then not all abusers are n*********s are they?

[Dragonfly]

Mine’s was but I only realised that when I got out. He’s been told he has a personality disorder, I just didn’t know what. Now I absolutely do. No doubt whatsoever. I’m glad I know now, explains a lot however I can’t believe I was duped into loving someone that wasn’t actually real. I was in love with what was presented to me.

I’ve no idea if all abusers are n*********s. All I know is mine’s was/is

X

[KIP.]

Be careful of labels. Mine definitely had some narc traits but at the end of the day he lived a normal life functioning away from me. It was only me he chose for his domestic abuse. I think a true personality disorder would show with everyone. Not just his wife or partner behind closed doors. This is calculated often planned behaviour and that’s the bitter pill. If you must use a label then domestic abuser is the one to use.

[Starmoon]

I suppose all people could have small traits.. But I’m not sure my ex deliberately or knowingly did anything… he honestly believes the way he behaves is normal, fine and basically my fault. That’s got to be the biggest struggle in self blame surely?! If they are only abusive to specifically us then it feels like our fault? It’s not there faukt for how we behave… what sort of person am I to beg someone not to leave me… but then I can’t imagine being so cruel as to leave someone when they need me most and I’ve said I love them

[KIP.]

Wow. If he’s convinced himself that his behaviour is normal and fine then there is all the proof you need x he might have convinced himself but he won’t convince others. He hurt you badly. He would never have done that in public. Believe me he knows exactly what he is doing.

[Amaguq]

Hi Starmoon,
Something jumped out on me with your post ” then nothing he ever said or did (non of the good stuff) was real… it was all a means of gaining fuel from me.”

I am finding myself continuously thinking about the good times and I know I need to focus on that bad when it comes to him.
He also thinks his behaviour is “normal” still does, I am the liar and all was my fault, it is easier to cope with on the telephone because I can just put the phone down.

If it is allowed, please let me know the name and author of the book please.

Take care xx

[Starmoon]

Amaguq I’ve sent you a private message with the book title as I’m not sure I can put it on here. I struggle to think of any bad times with my ex… at least I struggle to maintain the belief that they were bad because I end up blaming myself and thinking ‘well it’s no wonder he did it’… like he’s so d**n perfect and I’m just hell to be with so even a saint would end up wanting to throttle me… but then that’s the mentality of an abused person I think. The book I’m reading is helping me to see how empty all the ‘good’ things really were… that’s why it’s a bitter pill to swallow xx

[godschild]

Starmoon,Ive been following your recent posts, I sent you a PM did you get it,could I please ask for the name of the book as im puzzled as to the “nice bits” are realor not, I read as much as I can to keep me afloat with truth or not,been thinking of you lots xxxxx

[Bridget Jones Is Free]

Hi, can I also have the title and author of the book you read?
(detail removed by moderator).
The theme of “choice”, ie choosing to abuse one particular person in domestic abuse cases, is a hard subject for me to understand and fully believe. You can read lots on this theory, I struggle however to fully comprehend how one victim becomes the recipient of abuse directed at them by an abuser who chooses to do so. Surely abusers abuse direct and indirect victims, for example a wife and her children. Do abusers choose to abuse their children at the same time as their wives/partners? Is it really a conscious action? (detail removed by moderator)
None of us are experts in this field but a lot of us find information that eventually ticks the right boxes. There are traits we recognize. We marry our experiences to descriptions and explanations we recognize.
Still, the theme of choice is a concept i find hard to agree with. What choice does anyone have if they cannot recognize right from wrong, or they have learned to value the benefits gained from abusing (say, for example, chaining a woman to her home as in the King of the castle theory) as more important than treating someone with fairness, kindness, care, love etc? (detail removed by moderator)
I fail at understanding the difference between choice and what else it might be.
(detail removed by moderator). I do however empathise with all the posts and feelings shared by victims of abuse.
(detail removed by moderator).
Do we, as victims, make a conscious choice of partners? Or are we primed for abuse? Why do some people walk away more easily than others from “troubled” people?
It’s when we decide to get off the train that we stop the mad journey. Abusers need enablers, and at the risk of hurting certain feelings, I recognize nevertheless the insane part I played in allowing the abuse. Only at certain times, I was NOT conscious of it. And after all, I also heard a Freedom Program leader mention that we too have to recognize that we have work to do on ourselves. We are not abusers, but we play our part in it. We accept, minimize, normalize, deny, freeze, depress, refuse to act, leave and go back, all for very understandable reasons and familiar powerful reactions. One choice feeds another. Abusers select their victims, victims feed the abusers game.

One victim at the Freedom program was once describing how she argued back with her husband, and how he would sit back, making himself comfortable and watched her talk and talk, explain and explain. I advised her to recognize the pattern of insanity that exchange represented, and to immediately disengage. I am on my third program, and while on my first, I would never have been able to voice that advice as I was once exactly like her! Insane! I don’t mean to hurt anyone, but when we recognize how some interactions are “discharged” so as to cause a reaction in the abused victim, we can pride ourselves of having made the right steps towards the start of change and hopefully recovery. It’s a learning curve. You have to first recognize what abuse is…
As a guilty person that i am, I too leave and go back. Nothing is easy for abused victims and some of us are in immense danger. It’s not easy AT ALL.
But when we choose to redirect ourselves, the choice is ours. Never mind what choice the abuser had, or not.
We are all at different parts on the journey to freedom from abuse.
The hope has to be directed on ourselves.
I hope I haven’t offended anyone, it is not what I intended in my post.

[godschild]

I fully understand where you are coming from Bridget (detail removed by moderator)
I have spent decades responding wrongly getting torn up in crazy conversations but the more I’m learning and reading, I often moe often than not halt these accusing crazy conversatoions in their prime and walk away, I see more and more of the tactics against me but I understand how they make us behave “insane ” as you describe it, to know the truth of what they are up to is empowering also reading other ladies stories and see the identical patterns in abusers behavoir, if you want the title of the

(detail removed by moderator)

[Bridget Jones Is Free]

Hi Godchild, thank you for your post, and yes please do let me know the details of the books.
Your reply resonates with my thoughts. The crazy making of insane conversations with abusers, omg!!! Have I fed them back!!!! Guilty!! But once you empower yourself with knowledge and understanding of such tactics and the situations we get involved in, you can begin to withdraw.

I hold on tight to the main idea and solution of directing hope into ourselves, as there is no point in hoping to change, transform, help or educate an abuser. That change has to come from within themselves.

Take care, all of you x*x

[Starmoon]

Hi godschild I did get your msg, so sorry I haven’t replied.. I’ve been meaning to!!

The book I’m reading is by a survivor of abuse and whilst I can relate to a lot of what she says- I still can’t help thinking it’s wrong of her and us to blame them for how we react… I’ve been utterly crazy some times, I’ve sat in front of the door and begged him not to leave, I’ve driven to his house in the early hours and begged him to come home… I’ve shouted and cried far too many times when he’s said he’s leaving me…
He’s not responsible for that- I am!

Yes he’s physically hurt me, he’s mentally hurt me and he’s abandoned me when I’ve needed him most in the most horrific situations… but I don’t think he gets any pleasure out of it. (detail removed by moderator)- then he does a d**n good job of faking emotions outside of our relationship- because it is only me who’s suffered at his hands. And that’s why I often wonder- is it just that we were simply not rite for each other. Another women mite not react in the way I did- so he wouldn’t get angry and wouldn’t abandon her in the way he did with me. My ex was bought up in a loving family… he wasn’t abused… I can’t say that either of his parents seem abusive (although I don’t know what goes on behind closed doors). It’s an old fashioned set up… his mum never worked and his dad did as he pleased but I have seen both parents argue and disagree and neither one of them leaves the other or remakes the other feel they are wrong for their reaction.

When I got back with my ex this last time, I felt I’d learned so much whilst away from him… I didn’t get upset with him to begin with, I simply walked away from disagreements. It was empowering… like I felt I didn’t care if he left me. But some how I fell back into the same old rubbish… it felt he was setting me up for a fall… we’d argue and then he’d leave me telling me I made his life hell. I often wonder if I’m the abuser

[godschild]

Will send you the details Bridget of the books and the website where you can watch small videos its hepled me a lot to get inside the mind of a man who once was abusive, he has an E Mail address well if you wanted to ask him anything.

Yes I have fed my husbands mind for years in these crazy conversations and the man in the book admits how he used to use conversations to his own ends to control every situation, he does refer to certain personality disorders but very much focuses on arrested developement. Hope they might help you xx

[godschild]

Hi starmoon,I would love to look at the book if you can let me have details. Ive responded very much over the years in ways you describe, these men know just how to push us to make us look like the abuser or the crazy one its a tactic they use, whilst you cant say he made you react like it, he put you through so much that it is often inevitable that we end up reacting to what they do.

We can I beleive be more vunerable due to our own childhood issues or personality type but no Woman should be treated the way yours has treated you or mine has treated me ,we are made to be loved and cherished, supported in our weaknesses , kindness and support, yours has left you in hormonal turmoil, in misscarrying his child, in pregnancy,its sheer cruelty to do that to you, take care x*x

[Lisa]

Hi all,

I just wanted to put a post here to say that whilst I respect this discussion and the forum is a free space to air your thoughts I really think that any discussion about labeling abuse as anything other than abuse is not helpful and potentially damaging to forum users seeking to break away from abusive relationships.

Women’s Aid clearly wish to stress that trying to define abusive behavior as a personality disorder or tantamount to a mental health issue is simply not the case; abusers choose to abuse. They are fully conscious of their behavior and the abuse is carried out as a way to maintain their power and status in a relationship. The cycle of abuse serves to keep the victim confused and trapped in the relationship and slowly corrodes the recipients self esteem and self worth. Victims are often labeled as the perpetrators as part of the method to undermine and confuse. It is not accurate to blame abusive behavior on childhood upbringing as everyone has the choice to choose how they behave. There are lots of abusive people who are not children of abusers and vice versa. Likewise there are many people with mental health issues who are not abusers, the two are not linked or predetermined.

I also wish to urge caution with regards to looking at any resources by “reformed abusers” and encourage the focus to be simply on yourself through methods such as counselling and the freedom program. Anything else diverts your energy on to the perpetrator rather than the survivor of domestic abuse and is not helpful to those looking to leave an abusive partner or those who have left and are trying to heal and recover.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

Best wishes,

Lisa
Forum Moderator

[godschild]

Lisa whilst I respect that you are the moderator on this site, I personally feel that anything we ladies discuss that helps us should be on here, the books and videos I have read/watched have been written to help victims as well as abusers if they so choose, which very often is not the case,but many many ladies have been helped including myself, to see an ex abuser admit and give insight into his former behavoir so it is very very positive and has helped me no end.

There are many many different sitautions on here and one size does not fit all, many many ladies keep advocating no contact this is not always possible as in my own case and others with disabilities or other circumstances, it may work for some but not all, my WA worker I had 18 months ago said this to me and we need to take what helps us as we are all different,I post anything that may help the ladies on here including materials from former abusers as it helps to get inside the head of an abuser sand many of us want to understand more of how they tick to help us.

Some ladies that leave end up in dire circumstances of poverty with no money, no help and may feel worse off, my WA worker said that not all ladies do leave, some leave and go back, much is focused on this and not much at all on those of us who have little choice or choose to stay or keep going back and I feel the discussions should be open to various thoughts etc for those who are still in the situtation,everyone has to do the best for THEIR own situtation and any materials that have helped anyone of us should surely be shared.

[godschild]

Lisa as an after thought maybe a subject for those of us who are still in the situation of how best to cope whilst still in it might be good,ive felt a bit like a fish out of water at many times on here due to my disabilities and not being able to leave. spem;ladies new to seeing they are in abusive situations may need support that initially excludes all of the main advise on here to go no contact they will be in shock anyway and maybe a gentler introduction to give time for them to decide what is best for them

[Starmoon]

I’m really sorry, I didn’t mean to cause anything negative.. it’s only that I could relate more to this lady. It’s desperate attempts to relate to something. I could never relate to the freedom program because my ex was never the way they explaine abuses . I hate that I feel this way because I’ve tried so desperately hard not to blame myself… I wish there was something that could tell me it wasn’t my fault. But unfortunately I don’t think my ex was an abuser… I don’t think he ever deliberately did anything wrong… I just think I pushed him to it. I really don’t think I should post on here and again I’m sorry

[Lisa]

Hi Starmoon,

You have not caused anything negative at all I simply wanted to stress it’s important that you focus on yourself and not trying to understand an abuser as it will always end in confusion. How you are feeling is very common in the early days of a relationship ending, let alone an abusive relationship on top of the very emotional few weeks you have already been having. Please be kind to yourself, keep getting support from the forum and your local Women’s Aid group. You are doing brilliantly and I know you are so much stronger than you think you are. We are all here for you.

Best wishes,

Lisa
Forum Moderator

[godschild]

Starmoon, I don’t see you have caused anything negative at all in anyway,don’t stop posting you need the support x*x

[Author]

Posts