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Husband been shouting at me and taking his anger out on me for a long time. Doesn’t like me seeing friends for nights out. Has got worse lately in this pandemic. I see no one but him and his shouting. It isn’t all the time, just when something goes wrong. I couldn’t take anymore and after seeking advice I left (detail removed by moderator). Now he’s all apologetic, wants to get counselling, wants to change, wants to try. Do I believe him and go back or do I say enough is enough? Bearing in mind I was so run down by him, I do feel to have built myself up a bit again so I’m not even sure I can move on from this myself. Do I try or will I end up leaving again, confusing my kids again.
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I’m sorry to hear what you’re going through.
Counselling will only work if both parties are committed to working together to resolve the issues in a way that’s best for both parties. Unfortunately as abuser is likely to continue the manipulation in the counselling (even of the counsellor), meaning not only is it pointless but it’s also more abuse and confusion. This is because the abuser fundamentally believes that they are entitled to control and punish if they feel bad/angry etc. Couple counselling won’t undo that belief. That’s his work to do. Women’s Aid doesn’t recommend counselling when there’s abuse so maybe you should contact them and see what they think about your specific situation. I’m not expert, just sharing from what I’ve learnt and also have experience of failed counselling myself and another friend.
Sending love xxxx
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@Rabbit123 I am in the same boat, I left my partner (detail removed by moderator) with ignoring him… I gave in and was talking to him for a bit, It is the first time he listened,recognised his faults and apologised. The things he was saying any girl would want to hear. I am trying to fight this but the withdrawal is getting worse. I am finding it hard to believe his like the men you hear about. How i keep away is another question. I must be the only one who knows my situation that thinks and believes he will change and because of this its keeping me away as I dont want to let them down but truthfully i want to go back
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@gettingtired hope you are well, I shall take a look now. I have heard of it before but to be honest my brain is that mushed at the minute i dont know whether I am coming or going.
Thank you for the heads up it might be useful for me and @rabbit123
xx
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I haven’t left yet but I’ve no doubt you’re feeling exhausted with it all so take it as easy as you can and look after yourself as best you can 💖 Someone else on here recommended Dr Ramani’s videos on youtube which I also find helpful to listen to. I pop them on in my earphones sometimes when I’m washing up or something. Xx
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Oh Yes, I have been watching some of those. Sometimes I find myself thinking that his not as bad as some of the stories I hear on here… then I doubt myself ! He is mainly verbal and emotional towards me, he has anger where he smashes things but then goes quiet afterwards because he feels embarrassed. It was mainly draining every weekend with his low moods and depression talks… always needed reassurance
xx
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If I go back I feel like he’s won, yet again. If I don’t go back I feel awful because he’s now so sad and apologetic and I’m not willing to try. Is that how you feel? So which way do I turn. Seems everyone thinks counselling won’t work and I don’t want to live under his control anymore.
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@Rabbit123, This is definitely how I feel and the decision I am at now. I had the whole “x years we’ve been together and you are not fighting for us for all we’ve been through” I have been fighting from day one, but then when I have left before and I have gone back it looked like I was the person that’s left him three times. He used to say you’ve left me three times already and had my stuff on the porch. BUT WHY DID I LEAVE?? This time because of the situation of moving house and i didn’t know how to end it, i kind of put it onto him so in around about way without him knowing the lie he left me because I (removed by moderator). Once the contact started he was apologising for everything, for the incidents for the verbal comments and taking money off me when i put him on my mortgage. He said his life isn’t worth living if it wasn’t with me. I would wake up to morning messages… hey beautiful, i love you more than anything you are my world and my forever. Everyday we had contact i was getting long heart felt messages of what he thought of me. Bringing up when we met what he thought of me the days out… how i have made him a better man and how much his changed already and thanking me.. then he’d say don’t let someone else benefit from that, saying his going to support me and he shouldn’t of made me choose between (removed by moderator) and him and his taken me for granted… he would ask why wasn’t i saying it back or replying back. I felt awful because i wanted all of this but i was worried that i was now living somewhere completely different and lying about where i was… after so many days of messaging he was saying when you going to call me? I was like soon, he said why not now we should be talking everyday to get each other through this and to support each other. I couldn’t ring as I knew the real reason was I wasn’t where I said I was and I was worried he’d face time. I was drained and now all these messages have confused me more and i know my family wouldn’t agree for me to go back.. but how can they be sure he wont change?? I have even debated writing a letter to his mom, not telling her the problems as that isn’t my place but to kind of clear my name that this wasn’t me and I am the person she thinks I am and that I would love nothing more than to have a relationship with her son but he can’t just apologise and accept me to jump straight back in and then nothing changes i need some help and support to show his changing… only problem is i have this house. I am someone who is bothered what people think of them and this is really winding me up. I sit here every night until 4 am in the morning thinking it all over and thinking of what his doing, whats he thinking, getting my friend to check FB, is he mopping about knowing its done this time and the first time his had no contact with me for x years.. has the penny finally dropped?, when i do fall to sleep I wake up in a sweat and my heart is racing, anxiety is going. I have locked myself away now for a few days and i cant eat because i feel sick with worry of everything going on and the urge to message, It’s also down to knowing is he with someone else or talking to someone else… I honestly feel like giving up but i am trying to fight the withdrawal.
If you need to talk you can private message 🙂 sounds like we are going through the same thoughts xx
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In my experience with my ex counselling doesn’t work. I gave my ex excuses for his behaviour – bad childhood etc but now I see that his sense of entitlement is this issue and nothing more. Also, I reached a point where I thought that I am not going to be his emotional punchbag if indeed some of the issues are related to mental health and/or childhood trauma (although if you read why does he do that you’ll see this is not the case). For me I wasn’t going to subject my child to domestic abuse a minute longer while my ex made (insincere) attempts to ‘change’. Personally I don’t believe they change. I’ve been through this for years although this is the first time I have left. I knew when I was packing that the line had finally been drawn as like you I don’t want my child back and forth. It had broken my heart (I grieved a lot on the relationship). I didn’t want any of this. I want more than anything to believe his attempts to win me back. I’ve read a lot and researched. I see them as tactics. Even now he says he hs my interests at heart yet agreed to a financial decision post separation that I should have been consulted on. At my most weakest moments I’ve even thought could I rekindle the relationship but not live together (particularly at Christmas). I then think about how I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown being with him. More than anything I’ve stayed away for my child. I was lucky to get the chance to get out and know I’ll never get this opportunity again so I’m grasping it with both hands. It’s so so hard, heartbreaking and confusing. Stay strong and keep posting. You’re not alone in how you’re feeling and your doubts Xx
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I had desperate hopes that my ex would change too. I was clinging to that with everything I had. But the more I understand about the mentality of abuse, the more I realized why these men almost never change.
One statistic is that only about 2% of abusive men change. This not all abusive men. This is 2% of abusive men who WANT to change and stay in therapy/programs to change. Lundy Bancroft says there is no chance of lasting change until a man has done at least 18 months of an abusive program. And even then, chances of change is very very small. I think Lundy quoted a 3-7% chance of change even with effort.
By the time they are old enough to be in a relationship, abusers personalities have already formed. These personalities have been shown to stay stable throughout adult life. So who he is now is likely to be the same whether he’s 20 or 80.
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Please don’t go to couples counselling. I wasted years in therapy with my ex. Round and round we went. He was like a mouse on a wheel. Nothing changed. Most relationship counsellors aren’t trained in the dynamics of domestic abuse, whatever they tell you. It doesn’t help that we’re often ashamed and embarrassed about what’s going on and we don’t understand domestic abuse either. The therapist may well gaslight you, seeing the situation as ‘fairness’. Your partner won’t engage honestly. Instead, he will be gathering data about your vulnerabilities which he can use against you later.
Abusers don’t improve. When they realise the game’s up, they get far worse, they are terrifying and they may become dangerous. When they engage in therapy for themselves, it’s not to reflect on their behaviour but to justify it. My ex decided to try therapy, probably because it’s something I did on a regular basis. He dropped his therapists when they got the hang of him and gave him new words to play with and helped him to become a better abuser.
Abusers learned their behaviour long before we came along. It’s nothing personal. It feels as though it is. We’re the only ones who can change. We can get the support to move on, to learn and understand the red flags. Abusers don’t stop until they are stopped. As we age we become more of what we are at our core.
It’s not worth hanging in there on the chance that an abuser will change. Their lies are part of their personality. The whole false self is too big to give up. For so many abusers, they won’t remember a time before the false self.
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In short, no, they can’t change. It’s a tactic that so many of them try. They don’t change, they just want you to think they will. If, in the unlikely event, that he really does want to change, it’ll be a lifelong battle for you both. He’ll always have to resist the urge to abuse you. There’s no cure for abuse. They always want to abuse, it gets them what they want.
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‘Bearing in mind I was so run down by him’. This sentence stands out to me. By the sounds of it you were not very happy with him and I’m not suprised with what you’ve said he’s like.
I’d really recommend reading Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft. It’s the best book on abuse I’ve read and I think it’s available to download online if you don’t want to wait for a book to arrive. It explains very clearly the chances of them changing (and reasons why they won’t) and it’s virtually non existent.
From what I’ve read, counselling can make abusers worse because they can learn to be more manipulative and it can provide them with excuses for their behaviour. A lot of abusers have been successful in manipulating their therapists xx
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Hi @gettingtired, you recommended this book to me the other day. I have been looking at purchasing the paperback ( easier to read than a phone screen ) there seems to be two versions in the title there is one that says ” Daily wisdom” and one that just says ” why does he do that “. Could you advise which one please.
Hope your doing OK.
xx
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@gettingtired Thank you for this 🙂 I shall order it now!
Quite a few people have recommended the book on here so it must be good.
xx
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After my ex left I got several texts etc saying we need to go to relate etc. When I ignored the texts he then got nasty then tried nice again. Gave me an ultimatum to meet him if I wanted to save our marriage. Unbelievable. One of the things I’m most proud of is not responding to a single text from him since the split. I could have on so many occasions. Still got a long way to go and all the finances to sort etc but I will get there and so will you
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I’m where you are in terms of sorting finances and he’s reeled me back in to an extent. I felt like I should talk to him to make some practical arrangements and now I’m upset again. Before I was ignoring and the messages had dried up. What is blatantly obvious though is that he’s only looking out for number 1 and thinks I am to blame. So hard untangling xx
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Hi,
I’ve considered this but I’ve recently woke up and smelt the coffee.
I’ve listed to years of apologies, cards, promises, promises of help and a week later he’s back to his same self. This might help you shut this relationship down it’s helped me I was told to view every apology as a manipulation. Not to view that when he cries and waits outside places it’s not because he loves me and so desperately wants to see me it’s because he’s missing the power.
I have to protect my children ultimately from being adults with massive issues.
I would of loved nothing more than my ex to be a decent man and I would of loved to of settled down with him.
It’s realising that love does not hurt
If it’s hurting any part of you it’s so sad but it’s time to know you deserve better and your children and leave.
I hope you can get through this. Think of how lovely life will be without drama x
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