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Not sure if I can do this but, I’d like to ask opinions about this behaviour. The more I read the more I am trying to work out and understand what is actually going on. It is probably me being silly, but as I learn more about behaviours, I am trying to become more aware and log the right information:
On Day 1 (detail removed by Moderator), I cried my eyes out in front of him. He asked if it was because of my depression and if he had anything to do with it. I mumbled “yes”. He was saddened by this then he went out to see friends.
On Day 2 (detail removed by Moderator), I texted to see how he was. He went on to explain how he was worried about him, me and us, and that we needed to talk later. I said that I was going to see my GP in (detail removed by Moderator) days and that I probably need medication now for my depression. He was ok about this and glad that I was going to go to the GP, but that we still needed to talk that night.
We didn’t talk.
Instead he was jovial, went out before I cooked dinner. I remained quiet as normal, dared not to talk to avoid his patronising manner. When he did get home he said things like, “here, have an extra hug, the more I hug you the less likely you are to leave me”, he told me how much he needs me and that he loves me, using a tone that is like how someone would talk to a pet.
Day 3 and he has made arrangements for seeing friends in the next few days without me ((detail removed by Moderator) related) but wanted to check if I was ok with that.
The concern about my depression and upset has gone out the window. Is this because I dissipated the situation by taking responsibility for my upset. Why be so worried but then go out, not end up talking and act like he usually does with his patronising tone.
I feel miserable and desperately depressed still, nothing has changed for me.
Please feel free to be honest. This is a mild scenario compared to most times.
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Dear Imogen, Your post made me feel sad and remind me quite a bit of what I experienced when I was with my ex. I feel there is a lot of blame going on between you, basically that you are being blamed for all of the problems of the relationship and he is getting off the hook saying its your depression. He is not taking any responsibility for anything and probably feels ok about this. You on the other hand are being made to feel to blame and confused and having doubts. I think that it would help you to read 30 Covert Manipulation Tactics in Personal Relationships, this is free to read on Amazon and immediately available. Look up the word Gas Lighting. There is a thread on this forum that I created, I think its called “can you give any examples of gas lighting”. There is confusion being thrown into the mix with you to as he is putting on a caring persona by saying he is worried and then in the next breath, doing his own thing by going out with his mates. He is saying the right things, ie. We need to talk, but its not actually happening is it. When I broke up with my ex I gave myself a promise, I will always give actions more importance over words. My ex always said what I wanted to hear but his actions were the total opposite. He was great at making promises and saying the right thing. You have taken all of the blame on your shoulders and taken it inside which is not right. There is a lot of gas lighting, manipulation and confusion here & he seems to be avoiding responsibility. I think that the book that I have suggested to you will really help. X*X (ps, I was almost driven to being sectioned by similar behaviour, I thought that I was a screwed up, unbalanced person, I thought that because of his actions but I could not see it at the time. HG Tudor, The Devils Toolkit might also help you.
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I didn’t want to jump to the Gas Lighting conclusion without looking at the smaller issues that go on at home first. I’ve got myself a copy of the books you have advised above and will get to grips with this more. I think I am struggling to believe that this has been going on for so many years and why I have ended up like I have. I feel thoroughly broken and in despair, but someone on here said to me “knowledge is power” and by getting a grasp, I already feel that little bit stronger x*x
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In My experience when they ask what is wrong when they see you upset ,it to vindicate themselves , they are not really interested in what is the matter but to make sure you are not going to blame them as they will not take any responsibilty for what they have done.
If he has caught any notions that you may leave him, he may be trying to keep you there by saying the right thing,but there will be no substance behind it , actions do speak louder than words and with them its always words no action just to look good and try and hold onto you, if he really cared , he would not be going out and leaving you when you are feeling like this.
I know that tone of speaking to a pet its becassue they do not know how to relate and be geniune in what they say, its sickly and false. x -
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My ex said to me that I am his life, his world and his reason for living. He soon moved onto another ‘soulmate’ who was his life, his world and his reason for living. He told me that I was never getting rid of him and he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. I think that the term cognitive dissonance refers to this. I think that you should concentrate more on actions and how he behaves, they are so good with words and so manipulative. My ex basically treated me like a bit of garbage but his words were like pure gold.
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It’s driving me round the bend because he comes over so sincere. Over a decade of this. I honestly don’t know if it is real or not. If I base things on actions: I feel like I am physically repulsive. He only wants me when he is drunk and it is always me doing things for him. I feel unwanted, untouched and like I am just a tool for his satisfaction. If I were to move just to be near him he shudders away…and yet, I can never leave him. I don’t know who will ever want me, but nothing has got to be better than this.
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Dear Imogen, I remember when I was with my ex, we broke up some months ago, and boy am I (mainly) happy and normal now. ……………..I remember that when we were together it was me who did all of the trying, fixing, arranging, making things work, trying to resolve problems, basically i did virtually everything to try to create a good relationship, his contribution was sex and coming to my house. He also attended the holidays that we had but I think that he did that because he fancied a nice holiday rather than wanting it with me. I remember when I was in the relationship, from the off I had some doubts about relationships in general and how they panned out. I had not had that many relationships, had been single for quite a long time and I wasn’t strictly sure about compromising, giving and taking and just getting along with another person on an intimate level. I think that this naivety put me at a disadvantage as I could not see things clearly or recognize when I was being taken the P out of. After the initial love bombing (n**********c term) where I felt pushed and pressurized into doing things that I didn’t want to do, but at the same time being told I am wonderful, amazing, beautiful, the best thing since sliced bread. We settled into the relationship and I was doing 100% of the giving, i often felt confused but I wasn’t sure why, i thought I had mental health problems. I kept a journal during the time that we were together and most of my entries I hated him and didn’t really want to be with him, he was an irritation. As time went on my mental state was being severly reduced, but it was all so gradual, not easy to pinpoint what and why, I just felt confused and that I was to blame for every single thing. Not once during the whole time that we were together did he apologize to me for anything even if he had dome something blatently out of order. I apologized even if he was in the wrong. Peppered throughout was him keeping up the love bombing and telling me that I was his soulmate and he loved me with with everything he was (very dramatic & theatrical!). I only began to have doubts about him when he let slip a few times without realizing. I saw another side of this character and that game me armor to hold onto. Plus seeing his actions during other scenarios. I started to have doubts about him, that gave me a lot of clarity as then I could say that it wasn’t me and my naivity around intimate relationships but that I was dealing with someone who could possibly have been taking out and out P out of me, all done with a smile on his face and sincere words. Reading the book that I have told you about, followed by others(HG Tudor) hit the nail on the head, I was dealing with a first class manipulative covert mental abuser. He almost had me sectioned with his blame, withholding of information, gas lighting, lying and probably cheating. Funnily enough before I met him i was more or less alright. Now that we have split i’m more or less alright. When we were together I was a basket case. It makes you wonder doesn’t it. I think your ex is cleverly mistreating you to his own advantage. If you can read the books that I’ve told you they will really open your eyes. X*X
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The books that really helped me were:
Invisible Chains, Lisa Aronson Fontes:
30 Covert Manipulation Tactics in Personal Relationships:
All books by HG Tudor:
Why does he do that?
Covert Manipulation Exposed.
Many of these are free to read on Amazon and they gave me 100% clarity about the secret underhand manipulator who I had let into my life and my heart but who did not have my best interests at heart.-
Goodness, all of that you have said is frighteningly familiar. I might add we still haven’t “talked” yet and he hasn’t realised that I am seeing the GP I mentioned above tomorrow. He has no doubt forgotten. Or did he choose to forget?
It was the book “why does he do that” that initially openeded my eyes, horrified and confused that his behaviour and actions of emotional abuse were listed before my eyes. I feel sick at the thought and potential he knows exactly what he is doing to me.
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Well, I developed severe psychotic symptoms when I was with my ex, never before him and never after him have I suffered from severe MH issues. When I first read 30 Covert manipulation Tactics it all fell into place. I felt controlled from our very first date really up until now, we broke up (detail removed by moderator)months ago. I feel he still controls the situation now with silent treatment. I’ve not been allowed to end the relationship and freely move on, he still has me under some sort of pathetic spell.
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It’s so frightening. The bit I can’t understand is where does that vile behaviour come from, and how aware is he that he is doing it. He presents himself so forward thinking and intelligent. It makes me so very sad that you have suffered in such a manner. I am sending so much love and support to you right now, and so much thanks for your time in sharing. It’s got to get a bit easier no? Do you feel like 2 steps forward and 5 back sometimes? The forum here is phenomenal! X*X
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It is the same for me Imogen, when ever I ask him to come and talk, it ends up in monologues where he says nothing, gaslights, and sends me mad. He never addresses the problems. I had another example yesterday for what my boys did (can’t say) and once again his attitude is one of self pity, irresponsibility and making me feel like I am going crazy. Yet when I explain what goes on to other people, they soon see what is right and wrong!
I too read Why does he do that, I saw my husband’s behaviour in almost every page, most of all in the explanations given about when is it true they want to change. What he pretends is all a load of rubbish and a few days later the cycle of abuse will start all over again. They just don’t get it!
I too looked at the 19 covert manipulation tactics, mind blowing isn’t it?
I too have thought I was a crazy person, I too was manipulated to think I was the problem. My own family thought I was crazy, but if you don’t experience what we do experience, you cannot make sense of what we describe as our daily life.
I still try to read as much as I can, allow my brain to absorb the knowledge and understanding and draw the right conclusion and take the right action. Then I start thinking about my children, my work, money, etc. It is always the same thing that keeps me here, and the remote hope he will change or I will grow enough strength to ignore him and make do with this life. Lots of things have happened to us lately and spanners come and go…it doesn’t make it any easier.
Healthyarchive is a very clever person, full of good information and knowledgeable in the intimate evil work of abuse and its impact on us. I would also recommend you read a book on Co-dependency. You will recognise yourself in it! I certainly did!-
Hi Bridget Jones Is Free,
It is starting to become quite overwhelming and where I have been so used to it, I now feel so much anger, upset and confusion. I need to make a plan, I need to be free. It’s just so hard when I feel like I’m the bad one for wanting to get out. I’m panicking beyond belief. Thank you for the tips on codependency x*x
Healthyarchive is being fantastic (thank you x).
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Thank you for your positive feedback Bridget Jones & Imogen.
I have thought that my ex’s vile behaviour comes quite a lot from his upbringing, his step dad who raised him was even more vile, a real sadistic bully. My ex didn’t have a decent loving upbringing, very abusive, there was DV littered throughout the family. I do feel quite sorry for him and I believe that he has quite hard core self esteem issues. Because of this I thought I would like to stay in touch to maybe be friends, that I could be a support to him. I work with people with MH problems and I am used to providing that element of support. My ex did not respond to my offer of friendship, he ignored me. So that is that. I believe that my ex was VERY WELL AWARE and well practiced in his game of abuse, it was dreadful and abnormal. There are two more threads on here that I created, one is called Plausible Deniability, the other is called Intermittent Reinforcement, I think that you will like these. Also i created another thread called, its not right to Walk on Eggshells. The Devils Toolkit by HG Tudor is great and explaining the manipulative tactics that are used, I got such a fantastic understanding of what I was dealing with when I read that. I think my ex studied the internet, body language and techniques, his over riding aim was to be in control at all times everybody & everything. Don’t forget that BLAME is high on the agenda with these men. I honestly thought every single thing that went wrong was my fault, that I had an unstable personality disorder. Not once, ever did he apologize for anything. He deeply hurt me a few times with his uncaring and dismissive attitude and I ended up apologizing to him just to keep the peace. Imogen this is likely to be why you feel bad for wanting to get out, don’t forget the gas lighting and trickery. The thread on Intermittent Reinforcement and the chapter on this in one of the books will give you a greater understanding why you feel this confusion. He is throwing you crumbs of love, attention and interest, crumbs every so often. These keep you hooked and hopeful. They know just how much to give.
One the relationship ends I can guarantee you that things improve, your mood perks up and your thinking becomes clearer as time passes. Funnily enough I never feel confused, foggy, uncertain, doubtful and scared now. I think freely through my own eyes and make my own decision, life is great. X*X-
I will look all of that up in the threads.
I am really struggling with the guilt and how I truly believe I am the bad one in this for wanting to be free. I feel thoroughly blinded by all of it and I think that s will be the hardest thing to overcome. The boxes are ticked concerns no his behaviour but I just can’t help but believe this is all on me and my fault.
Would I be best to talk to a therapist of sorts?
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I agree really with SaharaD. When I first split up I paid for 3 sessions with Relate as I felt that I desperately needed it. I didn’t know about this forum at that point & Relate helped with the initial shock. But this forum and reading the abuse books and websites is what helped me the most, this combined with time is what got me over it. I completely understand when you said you feel completely to blame. I felt that I was the one who was responsible for every problem, it was only when he let slip a few times and i saw another, arrogant nasty side to him that I began to question my responses. Its funny that now i’m not with him any more I don’t feel that I’m responsible for the worlds problems or day to day problems with work colleagues etc. I think my ex was skilled at putting the blame on my shoulders without me fully realizing it was happening. Plus some insecurities and naiviety of my own that I brought to the relationhsip, this put me at a disadvantage. X*X
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I see what you are saying. It’s difficult to break from this being the norm.
I have just been put to pick up our lunch and he texted and called to say he had locked himself out of the house. I came back straight away of course, but the funny thing I noticed was that when he explained what happened, I immediately apologised for locking the front door! For a split second I thought “why am I apologising for doing something that is normal and safe?!” But he immediately hopped in and said “thanks, that’s ok”, not “why are you apologising for safety?”. I feel I am reading too much into that, but it did make me stop and think.
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Yes, you are falling into the behaviour for apologizing for things when you have done nothing to apologize for. I was the same, they make you feel inadequate, its like you have to apologize to be alive. My self worth was so low when I was with my ex, it was almost as if i apologized for breathing and existing. I kept saying to him that I felt that he was far superior to me (i know, its highly distorted thinking on my part). I would say that I feel that you are far far superior to me and I am much lesser than you. That is truly how I felt at that point, or probably more accuratly, how me had made me feel subtly. I do not have those belittled feelings now.
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I wonder would have happened if 1. You didn’t come back straight away and 2. You didn’t apologize for locking the door 3. You asked him to pick up the lunch…………………………..Can you answer each question?
Also, did he apologize to you for making you rush back and did he thank you for doing so?
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Yes, Healthyarchive, I end up saying that he is far more superior, intelligent, witty than I am. I say that a lot.
Ok, interesting task, so;
1) I don’t know what would have happened if I didn’t come back, but what I do know is I would feel I had let him down. I felt like that anyway for the short time he did have to wait.
2) I honestly believe if I didn’t apologise for locking the door, I would have been told off for leaving it open. Maybe not straight away, but it would be brought up later. I’m basing that on experience. It’s like I can’t do right for doing wrong. There will always be a mocking or criticism which ever option I choose.
3) It was not an option to ask him. I know that would be met with a lot of huffing and puffing and then eventually if he did go, something I didn’t like would be picked up, an unappealing option. Sounds daft when I write that out.
I didn’t get an apology or thanks, just the thanks for my apology. I’m sorry I’m taking up your time, you are being so very helpful, thank you x*x
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My relationship was completely unequal, i did all of the giving, organizing, arranging and trying to work things out to create a good relationship. He contributed sex and a holiday companion. He would always say to me that he is looking for an equal partner. But then for example if we had a problem and needed to sit down and talk, he would not talk. He would either go silent and not talk to me for 2 weeks or he would blame me. He would never accept any responsibility or apologize. So how can you have an equal relationship what he said he wanted, on those terms? I decided to test my ex once to see what happened. By this time he was hardly ever initiating sex, if i wanted that to happen I had to initiate it. So i decided to see what would happen if i didn’t initiate it. Nothing happened, he did not initiate it. It may have gone on for ages with no sex if I had then gone back to my normal routine of initiating it. It made me feel like I was always hanging on for him to want me, it wasn’t equal and I was dragging behind. One of my clarity points once when was when he said to me very calmly, ‘I can pick you up and I can put you down’. I liked it when he said that as it gave me insight into what I was dealing with, this was not covert but vocal & something that heard him say and how he said it, ie. calmly and collectedly looking me straight in the eye.
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I also think that I always said sorry because I felt a vibe a lot of the time that he was angry or disapproving of something, I hadn’t done anything wrong. He looked angry. So maybe i took it upon myself to try to fix that, its not easy to explain. But a lot of the time I caught him looking at me with awful contempt, it would make me fearful so I felt I had to say sorry & explain etc.
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The physical relationship between us is non existent. I don’t know why he “keeps me”. If there is any sexual activity, I do all the work. I don’t feel wanted, only that I play my part.
What you describe above about equality is very much what is happening. He reminds me verbally how much of a team we are, that we get through things together but that he is the one with the broader emotional shoulders and that he is the one to get me through things. What your ex said “I can pick you up and I can put you down”…god that is disgraceful.
I am familiar with that fear of him being disapproving or angry. It’s not an anger that is driven by rage, but how a teacher would be disappointed in a child. This is followed by how he can help me change.
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I take comfort in the fact that the day we ended was the day I stopped giving him anything. I would really love for him to one day think about what he has lost with me, he had a really good thing with me. At least he doesn’t have that any more.
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And the day you stopped giving him anything was the day you became free. I want to be free. I had a weekend to myself planned, doing an event. Just now he decided (after all the hotel booking I’ve done and such) he has to be there because I can’t do it on my own. I kept saying “that’s whatever YOU want, I want to be on my own, I’m happy doing this on my own”, to which he has had none of it and I have to make alterations to suit him. That was my respite. Gone. It’s been a plan for months and now HE has decided HE HAS to be there regardless of what I want. It sounds petty but I’ve feel I’ve been stripped of my freedom again. The last time I did an event and he wanted to be there, even though I said I was fine alone, he came with me then stressed me out complaining the whole time. That was a massive event for me and I was made to feel i had grossly inconvenienced him.
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