Co-parenting

[Anonymous]

Hi, I’m not a vast amount of time out of my awful relationship. And because I have children with my ex, I have to co-parent with him.

Has anyone ever successfully been able to do this? Does it get easier?

At the moment it seems another way to control me. I get child maintainence from him and there’s a near constant threat of it beibg reduced to the minimum (without going into details there are ways to make it appear ypu earn less, thus reducing your Child Maintainence contribution). Whenever I have to speak to him regarding a childcare issue he becomes at best difficult at worse verbally abusive. Requests that the children are able to pursue fun activities or interests during their time with him are met with silence. The children are shown non-age-appropriate material. The children are dropped off early and are late to important things.

Has anyone got any good tips? I can’t cold turkey with him though I wish I cpuld. It feels that no matter what I do he’s going to be trying to have power over me.

I cant stand it.

[Anonymous]

Is there a third party who could do the handovers so you can avoid contact with him? Any direct contact is toxic.
Could you just contact by text if there are any urgent child related matters? Then if he is abusive, you have evidence. You could even have a mobile just for contacting him so you can switch it off and not look at it unless there is something you need to tell him.
As an idea, try to avoid asking him to do things with the children during his time. He chooses what to do with the children during his time with them and he probably enjoys ignoring you as he knows it upsets you.
Speak to Womens Aid. They can advise you on whether you could apply for a non molestation order to protect you.

[Anonymous]

Hello @marmot thank you for replying 🙂 I think youre right and only accepting written messages is definitely best (email or message). What set me back was hearing the abuse in my own kitchen – albeit over the phone – it was like I was right back in that ‘relationship. It was awful.

The problem with the “activities” thing (I’m having to be very imprecise, sorry) is some are only available when my ex has the kids and they’re missing out. It’s heartbreaking.

There’s no third party to do handovers here but I’m thinking maybe I can move handovers away from my home. I don’t want him here, I feel like all the safety I’ve built is being chipped away.

[cakepops]

I am a lot longer out than you, and I have found that some things get easier and some harder.

Communication is something that has improved, but only because I very firmly stick to boundaries. After my attempts to do normal co-parenting all failed, I had to insist on no phone contact, email only communication, handovers in public place and no joint events (e.g. kids birthday parties are done separately). He still sends me very long and manipulative emails which I ignore as much as possible and only reply to anything necessary once a week before handovers. Google the grey rock method which is very helpful. I often draft a reply back telling him what I really feel then deleting and taking all emotion out (top tip – when replying to your ex always delete the email address in the ‘to’ field until you are ready to send it, just in case you send it accidently before you’re ready).

The issue I found is that the more I put up barriers the more my ex has found other ways to indirectly cause issues. He pays almost nothing child maintenance due to fiddling his books, he has dragged me through family court for a long time, he lies to friends, family and professionals involved with our children, has made false reports of abuse to authorities… you name it, he’s done it. I am constantly fire-fighting and I honestly can’t see it ending. However, mentally I am in a good place because services are now all aware what he’s up to and ignore him, his emails upset me but I have had CBT and its been really useful at helping reduce the impact of his nonsense. I am now in a place where I actually end up laughing at some of his emails when the accusations become ever more ridiculous and bizarre.

So I can’t promise he’ll leave you alone, but I can say that it does get easier. My house is full of laughter and love, and he can’t stop that now 🙂

[iliketea]

@cakepops so happy for you! Mine is the same, laughter, happiness and kitchen discos, never happened when he was here! Well done. xx

[Anonymous]

@cakepops than ou so much for your long reply. This is so helpful. I’m sorry I didn’t see it until late – things have been stressful.

I think youre very right – no phone contact at all is the only way to go. What set me back was he shouted out his abuse over the phone. I was in my house and just hearing it there made me feel like he’d never left.

I harbour these fantasies of healthy, normal co-parenting which I’m finding hard to let go of. However to be honest he seems ever more angry. I think he thought my life would disintegrate once he was gone and its really ot. Like you my home is such a better place and my life is so much happier.

I will Google the grey rock method 🙂

Mine also seems to be trying to find ways to control me. I hope I get to the stage where I can laugh!! Hopefully one day!

[iliketea]

Hi, the best advice I was given before I left was to go no contact. I have children with my ex and I thought it would make it impossible to be no contact but its been fine. (detail removed by Moderator) the use of Our Family Wizard app – there are others you don’t have to pay for – and it has been a godsend. I only communicate through that so everything is recorded and it also has an abuse monitor – which is good for when I write messages – it shows red if I start swearing or being rude – not easy sometimes but it is good and stops the heat of the moment replies to things. I block him on everything else. He often doesn’t read the messages but if there is anything really serious he needs to know childcare settings can and have relayed the messages. Even for potty training I asked if they could sensitively talk to him about it and they did. If you are the resident parent there is very little you really have to co-parent about legally. I know it might feel that you should share lots of information and that it is for the best of your children, but really, when it comes to it, now you’re separated, what you do, and what he does, in terms of parenting, is totally up to you, and him, as individuals. Its hard to let go of that, but honestly, if he is using the communication to control you still then it is 100% in the interests of your children to go no contact and not allow it, if you’re happy and healthy and safe – mentally and physically then that is the very best for them. It is all about boundaries. I have had to learn very fast about boundaries and how to put them in place and why, and now life is MUCH much easier. Children are happier too.

The non-age appropriate material issue I have also been up against. It is a really tough one. I informed the school and nursery and gave it to them to deal with as whenever I said something it just made it worse and they were being exposed to it even more. School were very good, sent out a general update on their communications with all parents and spoke to him directly too. If you continue to be worried and it is a serious child protection issue you can always inform social services and/or cafcass depending on their current contact with you as a family, but they probably wont do much but you will have acted responsibly then, told professionals, and that takes the responsibility from you, GP could also be a good one to inform so it is recorded, but Im talking about serious child protection issues that relate to violence, sex and porn access. I would also send your ex general information on online safety for children and child locks etc on social media and ipads etc. NSPCC is a good resource https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/online-safety/talking-child-online-safety/
. Also talk to your children directly so they understand what the dangers are if they do get exposed. Being open and honest has been the best way I’ve found with this. And talking to other parents – although some were a bit “whatever” about it but that’s their call. I want to protect my children and I am sure you do too.

Does it get better, I am sure it probably does in time and maybe in time I will speak to ex in front of the children but I doubt there will ever be joint birthdays etc, that is my choice, I feel it is better for my children not to see me pretending to play happy families when it clearly isn’t. You have to decide yourself what you want them to know or not. Mine don’t know the whole story yet, its not age appropriate, maybe in time. Then they can make their own decisions.

In terms of the here and now though, the only way really is to parallel-parent and go no contact. Putting in that big boundary that you are no longer available to be controlled and manipulated. Yes it is annoying when they dont drop them back on time, or pick them up, but for now, record it, keep a record, and then go back to court and have the CAO changed if he can’t make the times that have been arranged. In the meantime always have a plan B for it, in the beginning I missed important work meetings as I relied on the punctuality, now I build it in. Its annoying but if you plan you can at least fill the time productively and not be too affected by his clear inability to respect you or your boundaries. Or if you don’t have a CAO then go to court and get one, so there is a boundary that he has to keep to. Its a long game, but in the long term, he will in time get to know you are no longer the person you were, you are no longer available to be controlled and abused, and in time he will probably find someone else he can manipulate and control. There will be some serious pushback at first, will get worse before it gets better, but if you hold firm, stick to your boundaries, be consistent, it will improve exponentially very quickly. I promise. xx

[iliketea]

*and when I say “no longer available to be controlled and abused” that is in no way saying you ever knowingly knew you were. It all happened before you knew and understood the situation you were in – you know much more now than you did when you first met your partner. You would never have believed it would come to this, and he would be this person, in the same way he is different (from what you thought and believed), you are also different, believe in YOU, and how far you have come, I know it doesn’t feel like, and it is really frustrating, but it will get better. Stay strong and a big hug. xx

[Anonymous]

@iliketea you’re so right. I am definitely struggling to fully comprehend that I was with *this* person – I find myself actually saying things to the effect of (detail removed by moderator ) Obviously it’s pointless, just like it was when we were together. I suppose I was thinking that once it was over he’d give up trying to control things. Obviously a fantasy.

Similarly I do find myself wanting to share stuff about the children (detail removed by moderator) potty training, other development stuff) because I want consistency for them and for them to be able to do things that are only available when he has custody. But yes, it is just turning into a way to control me.

Hes so ANGRY that it’s over and I’m moving on (not in terms terms shacking up with anyone, just in terms of getting on with things) and his anger is mean and nasty.

I’ve now spoken to nursery and children about appropriate (detail removed by moderator). They’ve been really good and it seems to have worked for now. It’s not serious enough for the authorities. My ex is too clever to do anything I could easily legally get him for.

I’ll look at the app if my emails start getting filled with abuse.

Mine is also a much happier house without him here. I just wish he would leave me to it!!

[Overcome]

I am loving all of the responses here.

I too am completely no contact with my ex, currently all communication goes through his father who offered to be the go between when things got bad and police were involved. I have been pushing for an app going forward but he is dragging his heels on deciding on one, so I am going to decide and push for one this week.

Going no contact has helped immensely for my mental strength; this is not the first time we have split up and previous times I have kept contact which has resulted in him getting back into my head and me going back to him. I am so much clearer now.

It is very hard and I still feel like I do 80% of the work when it comes to the children, which sometimes I resent but I keep reminding myself that my children will look back when they are older and realise who was always fighting their corner and was truly there for them.

That being said, it can be done, and you will feel so much stronger not having communication from your ex; you will be able to think clearly and make better choices going forward so my advice to you would be to try and go through a third party or use an app.

With love,

Overcome x x x

[Anonymous]

@overcome it’ll have to be an app for me. You’re right about being stronger when he’s not trying to get to me. I am getting to the stage where I have to build myself up to the pre-drop-off communication and then slump afterwards.

I definitely do at least 80% of the donkey work of parenting. The dull stuff like teaching responsibility and life skills is definitely all down to me. I hope the kids don’t hate me for it – the ex gets all the fun stuff and I feel like a nagging harpy a lot of the time!

[ISOPeace]

Hi there, I’m not long out and TBH co-parenting on only really working reasonably well atm because he’s still trying to convince me that things will be fine if I go back. So I don’t have any words of advice there. My ex does do a similar thing of trying to be the favourite parent. He often just lets them go wild under the guise of wanting them to be free to be themselves, but from the outside it just looks like he’s overly permissive, until things turn sour, and then he comes down like a ton of bricks.

From what others say, and my experience with kids, I am sure that they are much more intuitive and they take things in at a much deeper level than we realise. On the surface he might be the fun one. But you are the one they feel safe with because you maintain the boundaries they need while they’re growing up. You are giving them what they need and they know that on some level, even if they don’t like all of it at the time. So maybe he’s like a fun uncle, but you’re the parent they have love, trust and respect for.

Of course they love him too, but a parent’s job is to prepare their kids to be a happy, healthy, independent adults and role model that behaviour. He is doing the equivalent of feeding them sweets all day to keep them happy in the short term, and ignoring the reality that there is a big longer term cost. Sure kids what the sweets at the time, but what they really want is to feel safe, loved and contained, with age appropriate freedom. They need to know someone is there to rein them in before things get too out of control, because they’re too young to put the brakes on. They need balance, not excess. He’s not doing them any favours. But thankfully they do have a responsible parent to learn from. Someone who is showing them that you’re committed to their wellbeing despite what their dad is doing. What you’re doing may feel like nagging but it’s actually invaluable. xxxx

[Cyberblonde]

I also use grey rock – however it has got to the point now where I don’t know what is going on as I don’t want to talk to him – for example we don’t swap any days at all as I feel like I am also swapping to suit him and agreeing to things I don’t want to do.

The up side is I maintain control – the down side is as you say activities can only be on a particular day. I have (detail removed by moderator). I feel like I have been punished somehow as it doesn’t feel 50/50.
However I see the kids every day except (detail removed by moderator).
I stopped my eldest (detail removed by moderator) as he kept forgetting on his weekends. Then for my youngest when he started he flipped the other way and allowed me to (detail removed by moderator) so we could go. I can never guess what he will be great about and what he will get angry over as he is very unpredictable.

Apps and books didn’t work as I wrote every day and he would put two word comments for a three day period.

I e-mail hospital letters or changes to childcare arrangements so I have proof and can file them.
I use Whats app for any day to day queries. I do not have phone calls or texts unless it is urgent. I photograph and send via whats app any urgent letters. He did send a really angry voice message on whats app but I saved that as evidence. Now I try to think of any really bad behaviour of his as an opportunity to proof what he is doing.

I like to have pickups at his house so I can make sure he doesn’t “forget” to give me clothes or school things. I do not let him in my house. He picks up from (detail removed by moderator). I don’t go into his house either now after he shoved me.

I built in using the school and nursery as the changeover points – so I drop them in the morning and he picks up in the afternoon and we don’t see each other. The (detail removed by moderator). We use the (detail removed by moderator) to pass school letters to each other. It seems petty but works ok.

What helps me feel less guilty about them being there is I was told that kids only need one functioning parent to be a good role model. They won’t be as affected by the negative parent as we can balance it out.

[ultimatelyStrong]

I haven’t managed to read the other replies sorry if I’m repeating. I would say that what gets easier is your coping with it and learning to set healthy bounderies. Talkingparents is a brilliant app and if you use the web version it’s free. Keeps them accountable much better than anything else. Don’t do calls or emails or any other method. Don’t do handovers at the house. Don’t talk to him in person when you do see him. Third party handovers are the best, we use (detail removed by moderator) which will turn to (detail removed by moderator). We do the odd handover in person and I have very strict bounderies on those occasions. If he sends me a message which looks harmless and is about our daughter I still don’t answer if it’s something he could google. Obviously very specific things about daughter can’t be Googled but even then if I consider it a pointless question then I know full well he’s just asking it to get me to talk to him and I don’t reply. I give short answers to things I have to reply to and don’t send any messages myself unless necessary. He’s very very angry about all the boundaries and the abusive messages come regularly. I just remind him to keep messages to issues relating to our child and when they are massive messages that I can tell are mostly abuse I tell him I’m not reading it and to repeat anything that I actually need to know in a separate message. It feels good to set boundaries even if he doesn’t stick to them. He hates that I’m strong enough to do that. Stick up for myself in a dignified way that just highlights his own behaviour. I never ever ever ever go into the past with him as much as he tries to goad me into it. He gets nothing from me, it could be a robot at the other end of the messages for all he knows. Grey rock works a treat even just to build yourself up and realise how you’re in control now not him!!

[Lavenderrose]

Sorry to jump on your post but I am having co parenting nightmares! No contact or third party is really possible. I have however got a separate number for contact with regards to our child. I found having him message me on my phone way too triggering.
I’m still trying to manage the ups and downs but it’s draining. He’s still trying to control everything. Interprets our CAO to suit him, so constantly pushing the boundaries. I can’t cope with the stress of it but have no choice. Makes demands and expects me to comply. Always demanding mediation too!
I had hoped that down the line things would have settled but unfortunately not. Always the same issues. Truth is I’m still scared of him as in his presence and how it makes me feel. I don’t think people fully appreciate the anxiety we have from all of this.
I’ve probably made no sense but I’m in the middle of yet more bullying and conflict because he hasn’t got what he wanted with our child. X

[KIP.]

Hey, just to let you know his abuse and bullying isn’t because he’s not got his way with your child, it’s simply what he does. Even if you agree to one hundred percent of his terms, he’s going to change the goal posts and bully and control again. It’s what he thrives on. We end up spinning to their demands consumed by fear and anxiety, back in the trauma of the abuse. Have you had counselling?

[Lavenderrose]

Thanks for replying @kip. Unfortunately I have learned this the hard way as I just wanted an easy life but like you say they then just shift the goal posts.
Trying to stand firm and not allow him to bully me into handing over our child when he believes he’s entitled to said contact.
COA is pretty clear but I constantly doubt my decisions because in the past he has threatened court again.
I did have 2 sessions of counseling but due to Covid it stopped and I was forgotten about! (Offered for free through my solicitor)

[cakepops]

One thing to take into account is that you will likely end up in family court again in future and will likely have ‘parental alienation’ thrown at you.

So I would say that communication should be aimed at two things 1. Whatever will help your children’s welfare AND 2. Whatever will allow a paper trail of evidence to contradict PA allegations.

In practise this means that you need to use email/parenting app to evidence the things you are doing. So don’t just put a copy of a school letter in the bag, also state in writing that you have done this. If there’s a birthday party invitation for his contact time pass this on, and also write that there’s a birthday party invitation in your child’s bag. If you send child to contact with PE kit for the next week state this too. It sounds ridiculous, but these will then come in use, potentially years later, when he no doubt complains you are trying to alienate him.

As another tip, if you are responding to issues he is raising, write email replies like you are writing a school essay i.e. put the question in your answer. I’ve had issues where my replies have been submitted as evidence but without the original email he sent so I look like its me that’s the problem. So something like “With regards to your concerns in your email on dd/mm/yy about x,y,z, I can reassure you that….”.

Also if he keeps asking the same question you can just copy and paste from your last email, or just make reference to the date of the previous email. Don’t let him make you go in circles about the same issues. Keep it clear, concise and child friendly. Also don’t be afraid to just entirely ignore emails if needed. Plus keep a strict limit to how often you reply. Unless urgent just do a handover email and nothing inbetween.

[Lavenderrose]

Thank you @cakepops. Things are feeling a bit like they are intensifying again. He wants his own way re contact all the time but I stand firm and know I have done right by the CAO.
A lot of what you have suggested I try and go by. I do have a separate phone, email exchanges for specific arrangements but most contact is WhatsApp.
Some threats have been made about calling the police on me but I just ignore. I know the more I respond the more it feeds his delight in tormenting me x

[KIP.]

Those threats to call the police are good evidence so make sure you keep them. It’s part of his controlling behaviour. He will keep changing the threat until he finds one that works so ignoring him and giving him no reaction is good. In isolation they don’t carry the same weight but when you keep the journal and look at his pattern of behaviour it’s great evidence.

[Author]

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