Confused – is it abuse ?

[Shecando]

I feel like I’m going round in circles with my husband – it would seem nothing I say or do is right unless it is what he wants to hear. He is rude to me , short and cross in his moods. If I dare to say something in the wrong tone he pulls me up , tells me I’m being awkward and won’t let me explain , says I’m twisting what I’ve said to suit myself . There  is no point trying to give my side as it isn’t listened to. Iconically ,  he says I don’t listen to him when his way of communicating is ranting to get his point across , it’s accusatory and he constantly blames me for how he feels , if he doesn’t sleep well but I do then I don’t care ( I take medication which makes me sleepy but I do care and am a bag of nerves )
On (day removed by Moderator) I did something to annoy him , I tried to explain , said I was sorry but he didn’t accept it and didn’t speak to me for (removed by Moderator) days . He was acting strangely like deliberately  not eating when we had family round , I felt like he was doing it on purpose and acting depressed for effect: that sounds harsh but I’ve seen a pattern in his behaviour and wonder if he is n**********c . I feel like he ‘ punishes ‘ me a lot .  Any advice really appreciated.

[Piano.Forte]

Hello Shecando, I’ve just read your comments and your title: Confused -is it abuse? I think you are brave to write your comment and ask questions about abusive behaviours towards yourself. You are expressing critical thinking and this is difficult to do when one is in an abusive relationship/situation. I will write you a response that I hope will be helpful.

I cannot advise you what to do but a therapist or a women’s aid advisor could look into  your real feelings of confusion and ‘the bag of nerves’ and the punishment that is being dished out onto you. You could be  helped to lessen it/remove it by learning about personal boundary setting and assertive behaviour. I think your feeling of confusion could certainly be a  result of being in an abusive relationship. I think your husband is carefully building this feeling of confusion, for example by acting strangely (not eating) and name calling (awkward) projecting blame (you disturb his sleep pattern) so that he can punish you for his own gratification.

I attended The Freedom Programme about (removed by Moderator) years ago and one thing that was taught was a model called The Cycle of Abuse. And the start of this Cycle was the setting of R U L E S by the abuser which needed to be reinforced i.e. repeated. If the rules are not established the Cycle cannot exist. (The thing to remember is that there are no RULES! they are constructs made up by the abuser. They are not real!)  So if the Cycle of Rule making is established the aim is for the victim to break them – this gives the abuser permission to move to the next stage and punish the rule breaker.

I taught my son and daughter about this cycle of abuse to help them not fall into a trap in their own personal relations. It has helped me personally to disengage from being hooked into the cycle of abuse that my husband had cunningly created. Now it is dashed because I know there are no rules. I no longer express my opinions, I never apologise, I never try to please him I have disengaged and my personal disengagement is what I do to protect myself and maintain my mental health. I share a house with him but I am separated from him. I have lived in a separated state for the past (removed by Moderator) years and the earlier years I lived in partial fear and confusion until I sought help from (service removed by Moderator) and followed  The Freedom Programme in a large group format.

You write that you feel you are being punished. I agree. Is it acceptable? NO.

I think your confusion is real and is a result of abuse from someone who seems to be setting up rules that he expects you to abide by/learn/ acknowledge and remember for next time because the rules have to be reinforced. This could take a while. For example his rules: your tone has to change, that what you say is automatically twisted to suit you, you should not be offering any explanations because this is awkwardness and this is not acceptable to him, he is allowed to rant and you have to accept it, he is not able to own his own feelings and this failing will be projected onto you, you have to accept this, you should not apologise because it will not be accepted.

You say that you have noticed a pattern – a repetition. So if you have noted this then it is real.  So if this cycle of punishment from him is repeated  because you are breaking one or more of the rules one could assume that your confusion will become stronger too. So if you can acknowledge the confusion is something that is disagreeable and unhelpful for you then you could take small steps, when you are ready, to reduce this confusion and this would be self-protection and an expression of self-respect and an honouring of you mental health. As I mentioned earlier a therapist or women’s aid advisor in the chat can help. They have helped me in the recent past.

I am sorry that you have to take medication to help you sleep.

If you think that your confusion is a result of abuse then that is the first step. Take the next one when you are ready and seek help because this whole area of domestic abuse is complex and I do not believe any one person can work through this on their own and for you to be on this site writing your comments is very empowering and again I think you are courageous to express it.

[Shecando]

Thank you so very very much. I can begin to explain how much this has helped. He also doesn’t answer my calls or , if he does, is very abrupt with me. This is allowed whereas I am not allowed to display anything other than good will. He always says you’re so clever , you know what you’re doing , you’re playing the victim – he tells me I look forlorn when he has ‘ attacked ‘ me with his words and how I want people to feel sorry for me. He has actually told me in the past’ he doesn’t know anyone who is less hard done by than me , I have a good life’

i actually asked him to stop insulting me when he was calling me clueless and he said I was making him out to be bad.

it’s so tiring and always on my mind , what will happen next , what will his mood be like/ it makes our teen very anxious too/ thank you for your kindness

[Piano.Forte]

Hi, thanks or your reply.

to confuse = (verb) to bewilder, to jumble, make unclear, mistake = one of the aims of the verbal attacks

defence = to untangle, to make clear, to clearly identify and you are doing these things by asking critical questions.

because you are a human being you feel tired after negative abusive s****y interaction. This is natural and normal. Your son’s expression of anxiety is natural too. You are a caring empathic person. Your husband is not expressing these human qualities.

When you feel ready you could speak with your son about what you are learning. You have Womens Aid site and other access to help and advice so it might be good to let your son know you have this support. I have told my adult son I am accessing the site and it is helpful to me.  This was good for him to hear. He thanked me for telling him. You could do this you are ready.

Looking to the language used which is evidenced in your reply I can offer a breakdown and if something in the following paragraphs might jump out at you it could be helpful.

Forlorn = (adjective) forsaken, desperate

I would estimate that after a person is verbally attacked, by not just any person, but a person you thought you could trust and love, is a good description from the attacker. This is quite an upmarket  adjective he used here. So I assume his vocabulary is quite good. And in this case was used to demonstrate his expertise. Used here as sarcasm.

(Imagine a 10 step ladder of abuse. First step is name calling and this includes sarcasm and humiliation. If you can identify this important first step on the ladder then with logic you can allow the first step of name calling, humiliation, belittling as a good signal to you that abuse is in the space/room/phone call/restaurant/dinner table etc.   If you wear a watch you could actually look at the time and log the date and day that your have perceived this helpful signal. It is a skill to recognise step one of the ladder and you have it. You do not know when it is going to occur. It is his controlling nature that will decide when it is going to occur. And you are aware of this. So when it does log it in your mind. And know that you have this awareness of the situation of control and you can start little by little to defuse it. With additional help in the future from a counsellor or womens aid advisor you can make further decisions about your situation for your good and your son’s mental health and physical well being.

 

Your husband did view this attack because he orchestrated it and he would be very careful not to allow others to witness it because he is getting gratification from his expressed abuse and it is helping him to increase your nervousness and confusion. So you are not a victim because you are analysing it and logging it on the WA forum.

And then the ‘psychic abuse’ moves in!  with the aim  to make you think that he can ‘read your mind’ he has special powers! and this is another ingredient to increase your confusion and nervousness. All very clever stuff!

Phone Call rules: you are allowed to call – his rules: he an choose to answer or not, if he does then abrupt rudeness is allowed – your rule, on the other hand, is to be upbeat/positive/express good will

You are an intelligent woman and yes you are ‘clever’ we humans are.

There seems to be an assumption that your presence in the house and in the relationship is one whereby you have to be thankful and I think ongoing rule setting is something like, you are not allowed to criticise and make suggestions for the future or house improvements etc e.g. “don’t moan”, another implied rule you have to accept what you have because he is in control. Another rule: He has the power to offer you a ‘good life.’ This is nonsense, lies, untruthful.

So you are on your journey – your own personal journey. And if the abusive pattern is establishing itself more strongly you could use some practiced assertive comments to deflect and stop the interactions developing and playing out and repeating itself. (It’s like a recording that is stuck it plays again and again until the words etc are learned -so it is like unsticking the record/video recording and not allowing it to replay. For example you might consider these friendly, respectful comments that you could use, spoken respectullly, you can practice these in the bathroom, when you hear them it is surprising how logical and kind they sound. (removed by Moderator)

key phrases: “I’m sorry you feel that way” // “We both have a right to our own opinions” // “I don’t like the way you are speaking to me so I will not engage: // “I am not going to argue anymore” // “We can agree to disagree” //

So applying this, sometime in the interaction he calls you “clueless”  // your response is to ask him to stop insulting you (good assertive behaviour) // his response is to blame you for whatever is happening and blames you for making him out to be “bad”. So you could use the phrase “I’m sorry you feel that way. I am not going to argue anymore.” and there it ends – walk away calmly, breathe in and out as you walk away. The eye contact is broken the distance between you has increased. You are calm.

I always tried to get an apology from my husband. sometimes I would beg him to say sorry. I tried to be respectful towards my husband and ask him to stop. He could not because he did not want to. My husband chose his language and behaviour he was not going to allow the pattern of abuse of rule establishing to become weakened. No way. He enjoyed watching me get angry, or upset, and yes confused. I stopped asking him to apologise years ago. I stopped asking him to stop shouting, making a noise in the kitchen when he slammed doors. No he was left to slam the doors (I walked away calmly after speaking respectfully something like: “I can see where you are coming from.” )

This is a long response and I am thinking of you in your home. Again you are being assertive simply by posting. I want to say well done with respect. There is a way out of all this grot but it could take time because we as individuals have to work at it in our own time.

x

[Shecando]

This all makes so much sense – the pyshic abuse for sure / he says he knows me better than anyone else and Hess done more for me than anyone else including my family !
I’ve found reading this really helpful. Unfortunately when I have walked away he says I have to go back to listen to him or he’ll against even louder yet other times he wants to be left completely alone , again all at his request / on his demand.
He thinks of himself as the victim and says if people knew they would say he was being abused. That upsets me. I would hate to think people view me this way. He says his family have noticed things about me but won’t say because they love me , I think this is a tactic – making me think others are displeased with me. He is very good at being pitiful whereas I pretend I’m okay so he calls me (specific detail removed by Moderator) and says I’m different with everyone else. He likes the attention and is always hard done by. My question to you would be – does he know he is behaving like this ? I can’t understand how another human being would deliberately do it ?

[Shecando]

This all makes so much sense – the pyshic abuse for sure / he says he knows me better than anyone else and Hess done more for me than anyone else including my family !
I’ve found reading this really helpful. Unfortunately when I have walked away he says I have to go back to listen to him or he’ll against even louder yet other times he wants to be left completely alone , again all at his request / on his demand.
He thinks of himself as the victim and says if people knew they would say he was being abused. That upsets me. I would hate to think people view me this way. He says his family have noticed things about me but won’t say because they love me , I think this is a tactic – making me think others are displeased with me. He is very good at being pitiful whereas I pretend I’m okay so he calls me (specific detail removed by Moderator) and says I’m different with everyone else. He likes the attention and is always hard done by. My question to you would be – does he know he is behaving like this ? I can’t understand how another human being would deliberately do it ?

[Piano.Forte]

I would say that you know yourself better than anyone else. So another lie. He may well know you but to say he knows you better than yourself is a LIE.

Your question: does he know he is behaving abusively? Good question. My answer plain and simple is YES he knows what he is doing. It is deliberate and planned. I can see by playing the victim he is going to manipulate you to feel sorry for him. This person you are married to and have a relationship with is an adult male. He is responsible for his behaviour he chooses to behave the way he does. If he wanted to stop he has the intelligence to get help. He does not want to stop. He knows what he is doing.

Some people behave like this. You do not behave like this. but he does. You would behave like this but he is. You are different because you are two different people. He has hidden this side of himself from you again very clever and manipulative. When you work through this and see it you will not be returning to the place where the abuse is being dished out.

Have you reached the stage whereby you are able to call the police when the situation becomes to the point where you need to call them? (It took my quite a few years to be able to know that I could call the police. I have called them twice in the past and I have my phone charged at all times and in my bedroom and he knows this.)

He thinks he has done more for you than any one else. Again another lie. You are the one, the adult you are not a child you do not need a husband or any family member to do anything for you,  who has done most for yourself. I can see he brings your family members into the equation. (My husband used to talk about my mother in a defamatory way. This was because I did not have a good relations with her. He would say “no wonder your mother did not do X and Y because she did not like you.” And then the follow up line, “in fact no one likes you.”)

OK so you have walked away. (removed by Moderator) I do not want to suggest that you refuse to return to the space of abuse if you think this is going to put you in danger. Please try the phrases when you have privacy and say them to your reflection in the mirror. they are strong phrases. (removed by Moderator)

Now you have said that you would hate people to think that you were abusing this man. I know it will be difficult to accept but what other people think about you is their business and has nothing to do with you. We are free to think what we want about others. Just like you. You have the right to think whatever you want about anybody. And this of course includes your husband. Humans do it all the time. Is he suggesting that you have no right to do this. And is this another of his unreal constructed rules for you? I think so. See how deep this goes? He says that his family have noticed things about you yet he does not say what they are. Well his family will have no doubt noticed things about you, not necessarily bad. Probably things like how good you are about x, y and z. It is really none of their business. if they are concerned about you and respect you they will approach you. This man is laying the ground for your to doubt yourself and we are back to the mode of confusion. He offers t*t bits of information and if he was really true and wanted to communicate the truth he would. He does not. He is lying. It is a trap.

 

[Shecando]

Sorry for the delay in responding . Things smoothed over a bit so I feel lulled into a false sense of security now we’re back to the victim mode on his behalf which seemed to come at a time when our son needed support. I find it fascinating that his needs always seem to need to come first and when they can’t because we have children he acts like this. I had the usual rant from him on the phone how his life is awful , everything is so unfair , he can’t talk to me or tell me things – he doesn’t seem to stop telling me things . He likes to list off my flaws or inadequacies . Once he read from his laptop all my negative points almost as a pre cursor because it followed with him saving lots of cash to leave but then he decided he wouldn’t . It’s like being on a never ending treadmill of high alert

[Cat24]

This is the type of behaviour that describes walking on eggshells in  DA relationship. Anything and everything upsets this person causing you to start to feel worried , unsafe and like your tiptoeing around them to keep the peace..and nothing you do is right.  I would say yes this is part of domestic abuse.

[Piano.Forte]

Hi Shecando, I agree with Cat24 that the behaviour you describe is “walking on egg shells’ and yes I think it is part of DA. Good that you were aware of being ‘lulled into a false sense of security’ – evidence of you being conscious of the controlling behaviour to bring you to that point.

I would like mention something I used to do – when I received the ranting phone calls I would start off by holding the receiver five inches from my ear, then all I could hear was the ranting squeaky voice and then after a while another five inches and I could no longer hear the voice. Every now and then I would bring it closer to see if the ‘t**t’ had finished.  I would end the call with a polite comment. What he said/ranted was plain and simple trash and really was a waste of his breadth and nonsense and did not require any logical comments from me.

From what you write there is evidence that the behaviour is being repeated. And repetition reinforces his rules. they do not exist they are made up. You are describing things well and showing that you are conscious of the repetition. I would suggest something: don’t waste too much your precious energy trying to logically understand why he does x, y and z. It is a waste of your life. The man has issues. They are his issues. I like the way you reference your son and him needing support and how that was a trigger for your husband to start his ‘victim play.’ another example of how aware you are and this is weakening your confusion.

[Shecando]

Your comment regarding the ranting phonecall really helped. I got another one (timeframe removed by Moderator) and I put the phone away from me. I worry that what he is saying is him seeking help / cry for support but what he says he can’t back up with any evidence , it’s all a lot of it should have been like this , we should have had this, all these years wasted , should I move out to make you all appreciate me. The list goes on. The ranting continues without a breath , there is no space for me to say anything not that it would make any difference and then he hangs up. There’s nothing I can do here. Is he being serious about moving out ? He’s said this so so many times and never has .

[Piano.Forte]

He is describing  disappointment – of not acquiring or achieving things. then there is reference to regret of wasted time. And of not being appreciated. Wow that is a lot of emotional baggage to offload! (Good that you held the phone slightly away from your head.) I think that someone who is ranting like this would not be willing to listen to your input.  Maybe this is what is wanted – ie. not to give you the respectful right to reply. He asks you a direct question: Should I move out? And the follow up: “to make you all appreciate me.” A very controlling comment. How about “should I move out and give you all a break and some peace” ….  and he is careful not to give you the space to reply and then eventually he hangs up.//This is an adult male who presumably has friends, the ability to make a doctor’s appointment whereby he can access some help. Or go to the chemist and purchase some herbal remedy for stress relief.//I’m sorry that you receive these calls. Well done again for holding that phone away from your body.

Result – make you feel confused and increase your worrying. Is this abuse? Yes.

[Shecando]

He wouldn’t see any need to give us space and a break as he thinks he is perfect and shouldn’t be treated this way. Again , very confusing : I’m never sure what I’m meant to have done and he can’t ever really say. It can just be my voice that annoys him or the way I say things. I have told him , in the past , I’m not responsible for his happiness  which he disagrees with. I wouldn’t even dare say that now as he wouldn’t like that. A few years ago I encourage him to go to the GP, he said I only did it to make myself look good . No one knew he had gone ! The GP called me the next day and asked to see me . He said he had no emotional language and wanted to check he wasn’t abusive to me . So he had clocked his tone of voice whereas I sat there crying – my husband does not know the GP rang me but he has said I ‘ hijacked ‘ his appointment . To be honest I blame  myself for allowing this but as the years have gone on I’ve lost the assertive part in me . He has said we don’t need counselling but I do 1 again making me the problem.

[Loli]

I am new to this forum and also very confused. I keep reading avidly about your comments and discussions and I am shocked by the similarities. I am not stating that all abusers follow the same patterns of behavior. What I feel is that there are common patterns of abuse that can be used to identify and understand abusive relationships: the cycle of abuse, the abuser denying events or behaviour, the twisting of the victim’s words, the manipulation…It sounds so familiar. I just would like to thank Piano.Forte for her inestimable pieces of advice. I believe setting boundaries is the first step.

[Shecando]

I have found the advice very,  very comforting and when you feel you have nowhere else to turn or talk to , this forum is invaluable. I am sorry you recognise some of the things I am talking about. It isn’t easy. Hugs x

[Shecando]

Sadly I feel it’s too late and perhaps not safe to start setting boundaries as this would cause more conflict . I blame myself for not setting boundaries sooner and letting it get this far. Interestingly, my husband has set his own so when I speak and he doesn’t want to hear it he simply says ‘(quote removed by Moderator)‘ indicating I can’t say anything else

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