Contact arrangements for children-advice needed

[Ladyglittersparkles]

We go through my ex mum in law.
She contacts me to drop off when she’s home.
However its so strained. We were not friends over the course of (detail removed by Moderator) and that’s not changed since the split.
There’s no set time as she is too busy to commit to times.I’ve asked and said I believe consistency is best four kids.set times mean continual contact too. So on each day of visits.(detail removed by Moderator)a week, I’ll receive randomly timed texts to say if she’s available and what time. Its the same for pick up.she won’t give a time she’ll just text to say ready when you are. Visits are always late in the day and my child refuses to eat there.so he comes back starving and exhausted. He’s only a toddler still.
I said this has to stop as now he’s at nursery it’s not fair on him. I always do drop off and pick ups but having car trouble so she’s had to collect.I insisted on him coming home (detail removed by Moderator). She agreed then come (detail removed by Moderator) she massaged and said will be (detail removed by Moderator).
I was really angry. He eats (detail removed by Moderator). So I thought extra 30mins to negotiate.
There such a confrontational family. But really getting tired and upset of this.

When nc is in place how do you make child contact work?
Once he was dropped off she snapped I can’t have everything my own way.
And there’s to be no contact this weekend theyre busy. I received that text (detail removed by Moderator). Which is fine I get more quality time but if I ever said this all hell would break loose

[lover of no contact]

I don’t know the solution, just wanted to say her behaviour is totally out of order and this is very difficult for you to deal with. Maybe phone Women’s Aid for suggestions.

I know I’m stating the obvious but she is treating you very badly and disrespectfully. She has chosen to adopt the same attitude as your ex.in dealing with you. And like your ex would do, she is not considering the needs of her toddler grandchild in all of this. Its all about her. She’s rude and selfish.

Hopefully some of the other ladies will have suggestions on establishing boundaries as she’s just doing as she pleases with you.

That’s great though you get this weekend with your child instead of him being around at hers.

The important thing with your interactions with someone like her who wants to upset you and make you feel bad is to give her no reaction. Don’t let her see that she’s getting to you. Remain calm in her presence and post on here as much as you need after every interaction with her.

She’s just a not very nice person.

[Suntree]

You keep a diary of everything. Ever conversation, every time he comes home starving, every time they are late.
Every time that they refuse to give you a time or, won’t have him, or change something, you keep a diary of every short notice change or demand.
In other words you start showing the narrative that is going on.
You keep your calm, when dealing with them.
You note how your child is.

You ask nursery to home diary your child’s day. That way you can also match up how they are doing the day, weekend after contact to how they are with you.

Because if this does go to court, they will say you are being obstructive, that the child has no issues while they are there with you.
That you haven’t had an issue with this because this is how things have been done for x amount of time.

Use the change of your child going to nursery as the reason as to why there is a need for structure now.
They won’t see it that way and you as being the award one. But stay strong, firm and polite.

If the child they want the child just before tea time and drop off late, then say sorry its a nursery day and they need to be in bed by… However if you would like to have them, then offer another time and date.

This way it is not about you it is about the child.

The same as if you have something planned, if they can’t give you a time and you have had to book a childminder or there is a party for you child to go to, that again is okay to say, sorry my child is not available then, would you like to see them and offer a few choices.

Make sure all those choices are given in writing or you record a diary of what you offered and how it was responded to.

Good luck

[Ladyglittersparkles]

I feel so worn down about this.
It just keeps escalating.

I only want set times so there’s minimal contact.

We talk most days at mo. Its too much too full on.
She’s suggested if I’m so fussed about him being home for dinner then they’ll have him after dinner.
Just doesn’t seem rational or fair on a toddler to be shipped out. And me to collect around bed time or later? Seems laughable to me to suggest that.

I keep repeating once he’s content to eat at theirs then it won’t be an issue. Just don’t bring him back starving and shattered? I’m not changing set days.he sees him most days. Just it now is too much for him.
I’d like to have me time don’t get me wrong. Just not to the detriment of my child.
Ive always felt visits too many.
But been bullied into keeping it the same.
But its too much now with nursery. Feel we need structure. But cant see a way out.feel like I have to keep doing as they say.
Otherwise I have the entire family to answer to.
I feel like there’s no support and I just have to keep ferrying my son around at their beck and call.
When this entire situation makes me shake.
I feel so drained and anxious

[Suntree]

They are not thinking about your child or you and are bullying you.
Is it no wonder you are feeling drained and exhausted.
Carry on like this and you will break and they will have the upper hand completely.

When you put your foot down they will make life that bit hard, think teenager tantrum and strops because you don’t give into them.

Have a mantra ready to use like a bad record.

Talk to your health visitor about what is normally considered best for children around your age.

They will tell you things like a regular routine, regular bedtime routine, times to feed, play time, wind down time etc.

Use that to help when you now set your boundaries down.

Write them down for you too look at and you to remind yourself of especially when things get tough.

Stay polite and firm and don’t engage in discussions.

Remember be prepared for the teenage type tantrums, though that is a bit unfair on teenagers but you get the gist

[older lady]

Hello. What do you think are their priorities? It seems to me like they are fitting your child in around some other priorities that they have that they think are more important than your son’s routine and welfare. I don’t know if you work, but I know that lacking a routine about contact and being expected to run around at their beck and call doesn’t help a mother achieve an equal level of independence. When the grandparent says ‘you can’t have it all your own way’ it says a lot about how she looks at this situation, that it’s about keeping in control, but who knows what her relationship with the men in her life is like. You are independent from this man, a single woman with a life to lead. Why do they think you are answerable to any of them? This is their belief system, and they are forcing it on you so I can appreciate why you feel the need to cut yourself off from them. The problem is that, from what I read, the courts and mediation services are not at all on top of this situation, where a contact agreement can be made but not enforced because, in law, it seems that you can’t force a parent to parent consistently, but you can force a parent to force the child to see an inconsistent parent. None of this places the child’s needs at the heart of it. I read a bit of research a long time ago, and it pointed out that it wasn’t single parenting that caused issues for children (as single parents are often accused of), it was in fact where there was a parent dropping in and out and causing uproar at home. People talk about women’s independence but where is a mother’s independence? So you should have a routine for childcare, you and your child should have consistency in knowing where the day and week will be spent, so that there is security for your child and an ability for you to have other priorities that everyone else seems to think they are entitled to enjoy. You’re being discriminated against as a mother. I don’t know if there are other ladies on the forum who have had better experiences of resolving such contact issues, (detail removed by moderator). Personally, I have experienced many such days when my daughter’s father was supposed to turn up to see his child, and my little girl sat somewhere waiting, and he didn’t arrive, one hour late, then three hours late, sometimes not at all, always a rushed and angry phone call and somehow it was my fault, and yet I would find out later he had spent the time on his other interests. When he arrives he’s wearing his ‘i’m going to teach you a lesson’ demeanour and the subtle abuse starts. I spend the time smoothing things over so my child feels like she’s having a nice time, but i’m feeling the gut wrenching fear. Its been a long and difficult experience that I won’t go into. He also uses contact to lavish attention or withdraw attention over my child, it was the same way he was with me. When he goes silent, it feels threatening because he’s letting you know he is in a temper. He has never had a schedule, he demands his time and day to visit, he used to be crafty about coming late in the day because he thought he could try to demand a stay over (which I found ways to avoid), now he’s thinking of moving and I know he’s thinking about how he can force me to spend my weekend travelling across the country. Its always on his terms, as he sees it. When I worked I was juggling so badly, sometimes worried my child would be at the school gate and I wouldn’t be there. I was living on adrenaline driving from one place to another. I worked out I spent (detail removed by moderator) hours every day just driving between childcare, work and home, and that’s not time spent earning money. My working hours had to be cut to fit in with all the driving around I had to do, which obviously is a substantial drop in earnings. I used to have to ring the school to ask them to take my daughter to after school club because I was stuck in motorway traffic. So where was her father? He was somewhere else, taking care of No.1, but banging on about his rights if I tried to question the situation (I tread very carefully around him, maybe i’ve ‘learned my lesson’). He has always been able to work full-time, get a mortgage, pay his private pension and his healthcare, and enjoy his holidays (me and my child live on the council estate). But you can’t force them to parent or take responsibility because they see that as losing control (getting it all your own way), and then when the child doesn’t want to see them anymore guess who get’s blamed? And then the father says that the problem is that he just doesn’t get on with the mother and that that is the issue, and how she is making it difficult for him to get his own way, because if he gets it all his own way he will be a happy Larry and noone will have any problems with him. Meanwhile me and my child feel like extras in somebody else’s life. What option do we have? If i try to assert our priorities we poke the sleeping bear and suddenly i’m coping with the abuse all over again, and I am still trying to overcome what i have already been through. In your situation it seems that his mother is enabling his inconsistent parenting at your’s and your child’s expense. But what you can do about it I do not know. Where do we go with these issues? And how do we tackle them when we know that we will suffer abuse as a consequence for challenging the status quo as the abusive parent wants it to be? I have spent a long time out of a relationship in which my child’s father has been and can be very abusive but he is still very much in my life because you just always hit that wall about contact with a child. No method for tackling domestic abuse will EVER be complete without tackling that and from what I read the courts do not see it as a priority. Its part and parcel of not achieving independence for women or protecting women from gender abuse and violence. The other issue combined with the contact is the vulnerability to suffer from further abuse, and also, the awful question, will my child be safe? I was told by a solicitor in the early days that my child’s father would have to do something REALLY bad for the courts to prevent his contact. So what am I supposed to do, sit back and wait for the really bad thing to happen so I can then protect my child? I was told by a solicitor that I didn’t have to tolerate my child’s father’s behaviour, but when I asked about my child he paused. My child’s father has shown me and told me that I can’t trust him. He’s shown me he will be abusive if necessary. So what parent wants to hand her child over to someone she already knows she can’t trust. Its madness. I can appreciate why you feel so drained and anxious. Lately I’m feeling angry and frustrated.

[Ladyglittersparkles]

I’m really appreciative of all your replies.
Its all of your comments I relate too.
I said I’d look into alternatives and get back to them as I’m not happy. And just didn’t reply anymore.
I am always fearful of poking the bear.
Trying to gain strength and boundaries is so hard when its chipped at. Even after its ended.
I’m feeling so deflated. Exhausted.
Today is another contact day so let’s see if I get a text and what time he’s bought home.
Court seems pointless. I’d go all through the stress still only to face them.
I will have to start saying not today he’s exhausted when he’s strung out.
but if they get there own way I’m left alone and there happy.
However after saying I’d look into it they did leave me alone. Although I was sick and sleepless out of anxiety.
Acting brave wipes me out.

I do keep a log of incidents by the way.

Older Lady have you got any survival tips? To avoid feeling so worn down?
Its good your angry shows you’ve got fight in you. My anger seems to of bolted.
Why are you feeling angry and frustrated?

[KIP.]

Just thought that I’d add when I took back control of my life then I seemed to get more energy and my PTSD symptoms were less. If you can find the courage to decide exactly what you want. Times, drop off points etc. Put it in writing and don’t budge from it. It’s your child. It’s not open for discussion and if your in laws want to be part of your child’s life then these are the rules. You don’t need to justify yourself to them. Your self confidence and self esteem have been eroded over the years with the abuse and this kind of behaviour is causing triggers, bringing on anxiety which you don’t need.

[Ladyglittersparkles]

Hi kip.
Your bang on.
I didn’t see it.
I’ve not stopped shaking.feeling sick.unable to eat.
Its triggering me.
I’m having a bad few days.
But I have to remember I’m out of the relationship.
I’ve stuck to the agreed set days.I’ve said no later than** on playschool nights.if he doesnt eat there. It used to be **pm.but slowly its getting later.I draw the line at **pm (times removed by moderator).
Nothing else has changed.
They still have all day on a weekend.
If my ex is too late on his set days not my issue.
Court prob wouldnt grant this much access or flexibility.
I’m trying too be fair. But maybe my triggers are blurring my perspective.
I need distance from it all. Or at least smooth hangovers.
Im keeping busy.seeing friends and family. But my anxieties are all there. Its like Ive gone back in time mentally.
Where has my confidence and strength gone? More importantly when will it return again?

[Ladyglittersparkles]

*hand overs
Clearly not hangovers! Well that made me smile at least!

[Ladyglittersparkles]

Update.
She dropped my boy home and sure enough he was home on time.
After years of being ignored and invalidated with my decisions this one was listened too.
I gave an option of when they can have him out late.
So that they can see I’m negotiable. I’m only thinking of my sons best interests.
So for now I feel validated. I’m his mum. I make decisions.
I’ve been swimming this morning and had scrambled eggs.
Will do some gardening and walk the dogs.
I really had a difficult time with being strong with my opinion.
Being assertive is something I wasn’t allowed to be.
I feel shell shocked. As so many feelings came rushing back.I found it hard to communicate.
I need to find my inner strength again as for some reason it crept up on me and I’ve had a wobbly week or so.
Thanks to all those who read and posted.
You don’t realise how much strength you ladies give me.
Hope you all have a good day x

[Ladyglittersparkles]

Morning all,
Still out and building a life of relative freedom.

Ex has been consistently abusive, but lately his verbal assaults have gotten worse. Even found out my partners address and turned up there hollering abuse.

Police were called.

I wondered how older lady was? Does anyone know if things for better for her?

Been a while since I posted or even logged on.it

Many years free now, lots of progress made.
But still being controlled by his anger in some ways. Some ways not free

[Lisa]

Hi Ladyglittersparkles

Great to hear you are still out of the relationship and have built a new life. He sounds like he is continuing the abuse whichever way he can which sounds very draining for you.

It can be so difficult to be fully free of abuse when child contact is involved, but you should not really have to have any direct contact with him, wondering if you can use a contact book or third party for handovers?

Take care and keep posting

Lisa

[fizzylem]

You can’t have it all your way!? You were trying to fit in! But yes, it’s about a time that works for your child and his needs isn’t it – not for you at all – sounds like you are dealing with stupidity and passive aggression and aggressive behaviour from her. If you had it all your way his dad would be a respectful, supportive father and you’d be sharing the care hey, not taking the lions share! Nor needing to involve her. These people!

I’d be inclined to look into a contact centre and start putting it through there, to cut her out of the arrangement. Could he collect and pick up from one of your family members? I do it this way, the way I see it is I run her around all week, this is the least he can do, pick her up and drop her off when she needs to see him, we have a set time and any changes to the arrangements go through my third party person – which doesnt happen v often because the arrangement is in place.

What you need to remember here is you are his primary carer, yes it needs to be a time dad can do as well, as this benefits the child, means dads available to the child, but if it’s not working for your child then the times need to be made for when it does. It may work better if the child sees his father less if it’s too much trouble to arrange it – to fit into the week – thats just how it is. Like you’ve already said, it’s much better for the child to have a set day and time than it is more time all over the place and as and when – I also learnt this the hard way.

A toddler will roll with it hey but gets tired and hungry and will then get upset and irritible – which are signs he can’t manage it. As he gets older, he will still be unable to manage this type of arrangement but may even find it distressing sometimes and damaging, my child was forever asking when am I seeing dad simply because she didnt know and needed to know, and he would canx at short notice, it can also effect their mental health – once my child knew when, the day and time, this worked much better for her and these problems were resolved, it does mean they get less time, but she can work with this as she knows when and its consistant – doesnt cause her a problem at all – she is happy with this.

Maybe think about how it would be best for your child and what you can do and with what is available in a contact centre and when dad can do – will be less time for sure but consistant – make it manageable and how you intend to carry on x

[Ladyglittersparkles]

Thanks Lisa and fizzylem.

I did cut her out of the loop.

So for a long time I’ve been dropping off and picking up to totally avoid my house. My safe place.
So made my boundaries clear about home. over time we tried shops but ex didn’t like that. But drop off is ok as long as he doesn’t cancel, try for other days. Gets into a tantrum if not to his liking.

I could go down court route. For agreed times. And a non mol. But this feels like a huge ordeal to go through.
Providing evidence, texts, statements.

Really upset he came to my partners house.
Was my safe place, he didn’t know here.
My partner has children and would of been very upsetting for them to see. My child is almost used to his dad’s behaviour. But partners children would of been frightened at his aggressive tone and foul language and refusal to go away.

I feel back on fight or flight mode.
I’m embarrassed he went to my partners.

I want him to keep away. I don’t want his outbursts to de stabilize me.
I’m creating a happy life.

He needs to stick to agreed days and times.
I’m feeling deflated and exhausted

Everyone says go through court. Set times, no direct contact to avoid conflict. And he won’t be free to turn up or theaten to turn up at either of our homes.

Just going to court seems too much. He’s gone quiet now and sticking to times. I’ve blocked him from contacting my phone. Son has a burner phone that his dad calls him on. So there’s still contact for those two.

[Author]

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