flying monkeys

[Jupiter]

Lately I have been reading about narc abuse and their flying monkeys via books and articles online because of my ex.
The result is mixed feelings: relief that the info confirms the situation and a sense of horror from insight and fear for the future. By this, I mean that n*********s tend not to stop their games or tactics-my ex hasn’t.I wonder if others find themselves, like me, without a single ally in the family because the abuser has turned them all against me .
I have read that such people are termed” flying monkeys” as they do the abuser’s bidding.I have few relatives and not one is on my side, all believing what he has taught them over the years.
This horrible, unjust process is a painful lonely position to be in and trying to educate the brainwashed only adds fuel to the n**********c fire.Now he is making out he is the VICTIM when he is the aggressor-its outrageous! I guess this ploy ensures he wont be deserted if the truth is found out.No other way to explain such revolting manipulation.
Jupiter

[Nova]

eeeek flying monkey’s is right…I’m same as you hes isolated me from many of my family, and friends, and although I’m early out of it, I have to wonder why the hell they choose…as he does to be abusive…towards whoever in their radar, me…whoever…a waitress, guy at work, my friends, family..all random and unnecessary…

Why do they, the ‘frenemies’…after knowing you, choose to take his side…I think it shines a spotlight on their neglect, and emptiness or not wanting to be alone.. therefore accepting of c**p, and lack of integrity, grasping drama via other peoples lives…from a distance… yet still closely enough connected to give them a sense of self.

HOW UGLY. and we do not need these people REGARDLESS of who they are. taking dreams and passions..
The Dream Catcher
DM me if you want my support Jupiter. I swear I need women like you around me. your positive vibes are amazingly empowering!

[KIP.]

Hey, this is one of the most painful fallouts from domestic abuse. Luckily my own side of the family have been fantastic and have kept away from him but my son and stepdaughter have been brainwashed. I’ve been raped, assaulted, stalked, financially abused and terrorised by him. I have had a restraining order for X years now and yet he is the victim! He uses money to obligate them. I did try once to reason with each of them. My son became angry and minimised everything, my step daughter wrote and told me never to contact her again. All we can do is love them from a distance and be there when they need us. I truely believe deep down they know the truth and suffer from the separation from us but their survival instinct, like ours, kicked it. Do what he wants to keep the peace. As long as they are happy I can’t let it affect me. I won’t give them the power over my happiness. Good luck to them X with regards to ongoing n**********c bullying behaviour towards us. Mine is relentless. I’m kinda getting used to it. It’s predictable now. Only contact is through solicitor and even the letters that come via them are full of blame. Sad little man.

[Lisa]

Hi Jupiter,

I just wanted to show you some support and to reiterate what I have said in the past. Women’s Aid is very careful not to focus on terms such as ‘n**********c behavior’ and feels quite strongly about discouraging looking in to this terminology online. Domestic abuse is perpetrated by abusers who choose to abuse simply to gain power and control in a relationship. Understanding abusive behavior as part of a ‘n**********c personality’ is not helpful for two reasons. Firstly, it puts the emphasis on the abuser rather than focusing on your own healing and recovery. Secondly, the term ‘n**********c personality’ can be seen almost as a mental health issue and that is not accurate. There are many people with mental health issues who are not abusers and the two are not linked. Abusers choose to abuse and they consciously wish to inflict emotional, physical and financial distress because it serves their own personal gain. It is also worth noting that some online forums and blogs on ‘n********m’ are actually written by perpetrators of domestic abuse which may actually be very damaging and confusing for your recovery. Please spend time focusing on you, how you are feeling rather than trying to understand your abuser.

Best wishes,

Lisa
Forum Moderator

[lover of no contact]

I agree, this part of the abuse is so painful, where others we love or have loved are influenced against us by the abuser.

My adult-children’s love for me is as great as their fear of their abuser dad, unfortunately as KIP says the survival instinct/fear over-rides all sense and love my children have for me when dealing with the abuser. My children have my abuser up on a pedestal which he wants and they dish out ‘royal’ treatment for him, exactly how he wants it. He has a lot of Power and Control over them. As he had over me. Luckily for me that Power and Control over me is only triggered at times. I have gained my freedom from him. His hold and influence over me is lost. However, my children are still under his influence. Obviously deep down they have their own ‘will’ that he cannot reach and hopefully that part of them will become stronger.

However they do have choices. And I chose not to side with my abuser-mum against my dad although she tried every manipulation to get me to see him in a ‘bad light’. I was very young and could see through her antics and I knew it would cost me not to side with her (and it did) but I knew it was wrong to take on her outlook about him. My brother however chose to side with my mum, believe her lies about my dad and he joined my mum in the bullying of my dad. As a child I chose to be bullied rather than bully in my family dynamic with my abuser-mum.

At work the same dynamic. My boss and some work-colleagues are abusers. They want Power and Control in the workplace. When I started in the job there was one girl who was their scapegoat and being bullied as she did not have it in her nature to side with them against others. I refused to join them in their bullying of her and supported her after she was affected by them. That choice I made meant I could not join them. It was either her or them. I chose her. All other work-colleagues chose the abusers. Obviously the abusers in the workplace are very good at what they do, using lies, character defamations, gossip, pointing out her mistakes, undermining her and showing her to be incompetent (which she wasn’t she was ‘streets ahead of them ‘in every way). However at some point people do have a choice. Do they side with the abused (at a cost, as then the rumours start about them and they are targeted) or do they side with the abuser (and gain short-term favour). The work-colleagues who enable the abusers in my work-place are themselves victims of the abuser, the abusers have Power and Control over them.

At work I had to let go on an emotional level of my work-colleagues who I had been close to, but who chose to allow themselves to be influenced by the work-abusers for their survival. Yes I am nice to them but the trust is no longer there. They are brainwashed at times by the abusers in the workplace. Their reality has become the ‘abuser’s reality’ which is not the truth of how things are. Their opinion on other people is the ‘abuser’s opinion’ on these people which is ‘lies’ and not the truth. It has been very painful to let go of these people because I liked them a lot. I was very close to one of them but the abusers have so much Power and Control over her I cannot now be a close friend. And how I realised was when her attitude to me changed in a negative way. The pain of that was very hard. Not just her but others as well. (detail removed by moderator) I knew I had to move from caring to not caring which has taken a lot of time and ‘sitting with my hurt feelings’ but I am getting there.

Indifference/detachment is really the key when dealing with abusers and their allies, (excruciatingly painful when its your children). But keep posting as it will take many posts to get even near that level of ‘not caring less’. But believe me, keep posting about your feelings on here and getting support and it will happen.

[KIP.]

Hey Lisa, what you say makes sense but even my clinical psycologist seems to struggle with this concept. I had to try and explain that his abusive dysfunctional illegal behaviour was targeted at me only. He held down a high profile job, had friends, could be the most charming helpful person to strangers. Really, on the outside he was a gentleman. Then the door closed and the calculated planned abuse stared. She has helped me immensely with PTSD and the trauma he has left me with but there is this tiny part of her treatment that tries to label or box him. In my opinion he’s an abuser, nasty and calculated. Don’t know what made him that way and have got to the point where I don’t care. Sometimes we need reminded to concentrate on ourselves and whatever causes their behaviour and their dysfunction is not our problem.

[lover of no contact]

I have to add it is my work-dynamic at present which is affecting me but with my abuser-ex I had to let go totally of his family (parents, siblings, in-laws, nieces and nephews) and friends who I had been very close to for (detail removed by moderator)decades. They were all such a part of my life and we had shared so many occasions, milestones and memories. Then overnight (at his bidding), when he discarded me (a blessing in disguise lol), they discarded me too (another blessing in disguise actually as makes No Contact with him easier). But it was so hurtful at the time. And it took me along time to get over that hurt/loss. And his friends also, at his bidding sided completely with him even though on a level their know ‘the tow rag’ he is, but he is a master-manipulator and he has Power and Control over them all. He tried to turn my friends against me via their husbands but luckily my friends could not be swayed.

On a level I’m proud of myself that he has all this Power and Control over all these people and they are all influenced by him and he plays one against the other. And although I am no longer friends with them which is sad (but healthy) at least I am free from him and his negativity and dysfunction. I am my own person. I have my own mind. They do not.

And there are plenty of people on this planet who are not influenced by my abuser-mum, abuser-ex and abuser boss/work bullies. I just have to interact with these people and let go of the abuser’s allies.

[Jupiter]

Thank you for all your replies to the above and yes it does make sense to focus on ourselves as survivors. I didnt mean to upset anyone by bringing in the subject-the last thing I would want when we are trying to rise above it
all.
It was my psychologist who introduced the idea so I thought it was an explanation,leaving me free to get on with life knowing it was not my fault.This uproots any blame.
However,reading your posts tells me it is possible to survive well and show the world-the family and others that we are here leaving a very powerful footprint in our sand.You could say that the human spirit is strong-that it is stronger than pain-wiser than the enemy who will not know this lovely quality.

Jupiter x

[KIP.]

Hey Juliter. It’s absolutely not your fault. Many women on here including me are going through the same thing as you. It’s not us. It’s our abusers. Just another abusive tactic that is so common with these men. Part of me thinks it’s their own insecurities that drives them to isolate us from our family. They know that if we are allowed to get close enough then the truth will be very clear for them to see. I believe that my husband actually believes his own lies. He has convinced himself that he is the victim in all this. Total and utter dysfunction. Don’t waste your time trying to work it out. They’re just not wired correctly.

[older lady]

I’m not being the devil’s advocate but what if they are wired correctly? They are not abusers wherever they are and whoever they are with. Mine was taking loving care of his dying relative when I met him. What they are is wired to succeed in dominating and controlling their small part of the world. There is the sense of entitlement with a partner to make the decisions, and whether the decision is good or bad, they are entitled to make that decision as ‘head’ of the household. This is the “king of the castle’. Because, as women, we have been socially, economically disenfranchised, not every one, but many of us, through the relentless cultural stereotyping of the genders it generates expectations. A man could be led to think that he is entitled, if he works, to control the money. If he father’s a child, he is entitled, because he ‘pays’, to get the final say. But, even if he is a poor, broke, son of a gun, he still wants those rights and privileges, because our culture has taught him that he is still a man and a woman is just a woman. It wasn’t so long ago that it was acceptable for a husband to rape his wife. It was his right and her duty. It wasn’t so long ago that it was okay for children to be removed from an unfaithful wife to the care of the husband because he ‘owned’ those children as his assets and property. She was property too. This was a middle class issue. For the working class, the struggle against poverty resulted in a different culture, influenced by hunger, poor housing, lack of a future, old age in penury, and a lot of alcohol, sold by the mill owners from their breweries to the streets and it kept the populace ineffective in a very useful way. I don’t see domestic abuse as a psychological problem at all. I see it as a social one. Very useful it is too. Otherwise men and women might revolt against their situation in life, instead of abusing or being abused at home. It seems to me domestic abuse, rape, sexual assault, gender discrimination, is endemic. Its not just down to one or two personality types. Psychology is designed to look at the individual and find the problem and solution within the individual mindset. That’s the problem with it. Look at the nonsense about ‘parental alienation’, another pseudoscientific theory (an idea posing under the banner of ‘science’). If I talk to my child about the bully’s behaviour would someone accuse me of trying to alienate my child from that bully? It would be false to claim that all men and women are living in this power dynamic. Clearly they are not. That gives us hope. My brother is a wonderful husband. I am proud of him.

[Jupiter]

Yes agree –in a way the illusion is a psychological or neurological problem looking close up but if we pan out we have these socially constructed roles where women have less power.Even professional people are deceived by all this,dominated by myths and stereotypes.Years ago I recall a (detail removed by moderator) officer  suggesting that my abuser’s domestic abuse was probably caused by sex deprivation! She didnt consider that if the couple is celibate then the woman is deprived too!I remember a past partner gripping his bicep on his arm in a defiant gesture and saying words about his “conjugal rights” etc as if he owned me. Yes this is evidence of men dominating and owning the woman even though we are now in the 21st century.It is only recently that the law no longer holds to the old view that a man could rape his marriage partner as property-however there are still many areas of life where this domination of females is rife, as you say.There is a long way to go before realistic equality between the sexes,with those hogging the lion’s share of power totally unwilling to climb down to release it.
As you have said-olderlady- there is creeping pseudoscience in our present culture which allows those with power to degrade and silence women. But we will not be silenced.
Jupiter

[older lady]

I was watching the womens march in Washington DC after Trump’s inauguration and one of the speaker’s said something like, when you go home, don’t forget, do something about it. I think that’s the thing. We can all do something about what we care about, and not forget about the problem. Sometimes it helps to forget, because we need respite from it. But we could all, if we want, see the start of a movement for us and our issues and concerns. I have read that we are supposedly ‘post feminism’. But I just can’t see it. I don’t see women represented in empowered ways. I’m not sure we even know what we could be, or what our society could be like, because we are always boxed in by a set of images, or choices that limit us. It goes beyond domestic abuse. Domestic abuse traps us from being more. I want peace in the world. I don’t want indigenous populations removed from their lands so that the resources can be stripped. It does go beyond domestic abuse because if it was just about domestic abuse (detail removed by moderator) would have been a different experience for all of us. Its about a much bigger power struggle, ultimately. (detail removed by moderator)

[Jupiter]

Great posts and yes it seems to be a greedy desire for power over other living creatures, things,. people too.

I can relate to the above re babies etc and I think this is cruel to both parties, along with the stealing of other peoples lands and special culture/way of life. Also feel passionate about spoiling the natural world or displacing any native people who belong there.The same greedy attitude extends to outer space: we now have junk encircling our planet and apparently parts of the moon or other places can/have been “bought”. I think our entire natural world belongs to everyone and no one.Power and/or money separates us from wisdom and beauty and peace .
Jupiter

[Author]

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