Has anyone managed to get them to accept they need help?

[Eyeswideopen]

Recently divorced and he’s out or the house which is awesome, but now he has split time with kids and the drama kids tell me is just mindblowing… I didn’t think before that whilst I’m away from him all the time, and when not with kids I can enjoy my own free time, kids still have to endure him, but now alone.

Besides asking constantly for hugs and signs of affection, wanting to see their phones and messages to me as thinks I’ll be poisoning them against him, making coordinating schedule with kids super difficult, he also makes everything into a big deal hanging on to “self pity” and wanting kids to feel sorry for him. Phrases like (not exact words so its not moderated)
“Oh you went to the movies with your friend and not with me”
“You showed this to mum before me, you prefer her to me”
“No i dont have a (detail removed by Moderator), I dont have money for it…”
“I love you, but you dont need to see me if you dont want to” (but like almost crying and actually just wanting to hear they want him)
“Not taking you to sports as its my day off and want you to relax with me”
Anyway million of examples.
Kids are teens and keep asking me why cant he just be normal, answer like a normal caring parent. Why he makes it all about him…

Its cristal clear n********m caused by rejection trauma from being raised by a horrible bully and an uncaring mum who resolved all with money. But I worry it’ll only get worst as he doesn’t have my behaviour to sometimes shine a light into whats more “normal” and the crazyness when kids are there will just increase.

He is pretty lonely and has no friends or fam nearby, is extremely needy, I worry he’ll go into depression again and his behavior could become more abusive and dangerous. My eldest does “give it to him straight” which I guess is good as wont sugar coat things and maybe he can listen, but often he just thinks kids are being “coached” by me to confront and disrespect him (if they dont agree or say anything he thinks is wrong, he gives hours of speeches and demands they are respectful towards their father, when they where never disrespectful in the first place…)

For my own safety, kids peace and also for his own happiness, I so wish he’d seek help! It must be exhausting living like that, looking over his shoulders all the time, thinking all we do is to his detriment, desperately craving for love but not knowing how to nurture it so it comes naturally, not fakely when demanded…

He did therapy early on divorce but I think he didnt open up and really say what he thought and how he behaved. He’s on antidepressants still but he needs deep psychoanalysis! He was assessed once and they said he didnt need it, because he is smart not to show these crazy behavious and say these things elsewhere as he surely knows how it sounds! But it’s like its stronger than him and the more time goes on, the more he gets used to lying and creating confusion as his default mode all the time.

When I first said wanted to divorce he briefly acknowledged he was wrong and said wanted to change but it quickly went away as he noticed it wouldn’t get me back.

Anyone had any positive experiences in getting them to seek help to improve???

[Twisted Sister]

Hi Eyeswideopen

Unfortunately, no. I don’t think I’ve heard anyone on this forum or anywhere else say that their partner has successfully addressed the domestic abuse/violence tactics that have been used on them.

I think that if there was any incentive to seek change by them, you would think that losing the partner they supposedly ‘loved’, would be the catalyst. Your ex is still seeking to dominate and control you through your children, and is therefore still abusing your children. Are you sure that they should be seeing him? He is, from what you’ve said, continually emotionally blackmailing, coercing and manipulating them.

I don’t think I’ve even heard it said once on here, sorry, that might not be what you want to hear, but I would do all I could in your situation to limit your children’s exposure to him, block him from viewing their phones, ect, to take back control for the children and yourself.

warmest wishes

ts

[tiredofitall]

Hi, I’m afraid that I don’t think there is any hope for them ever to want to really get better, because they don’t really believe that anything is wrong with them. I spent lots of years trying to understand and i’m pretty sure that I understand him a lot more than he understands himself! HIs behaviour towards his children is very similar to what you describe. The hours and hours they have had to listen to him explain how he feels about what they have done (which is frankly nothing other than being teenagers) and nothing that they do is ever quite good enough. He has a version of what he wants them to be and if they don’t fit into that then he is disappointed. He also blames me for whatever deficiencies he perceives they have (completely absolving himself of any ability to parent). When we were together, he thought nothing of slagging me off to the them thinking they wouldn’t tell me. They were also confused about why he behaves the way he does. I’ve had to explain that he has mental health issues that he can’t see. They are older now so they can see and make up their own minds. Like they have always done.
My ex also had counselling. But he is an expert at telling people what they want to hear. He reported back to me telling me how messed up he was (and by leaving him I was leaving an ill person – how bad was I?) and that at the end of (detail removed by Moderator) sessions he was better. I didn’t believe him then and his behaviour proved me right. We all live in hope that one day, for his own sake, he will be able to really see his behaviour for what it is but honestly, I dont think that will ever happen.
Now mine are of an age where they can decide for themselves how much they see or speak to him. All we can do as parents, is to keep being the solid parent they can rely on and count on. It sounds like you’ve done and are doing all you can for them. xx

[Eyeswideopen]

Thanks ladies..
Its so sad 🙁
Yep our situations seem so similar tiredofitall
Ok so how to limit kids exposure then? Mine are teens, but used to giving in to dads tantrums so will go even if dont want to.
Shall I look for mediation and, if he doesnt engage (he wont) go to court? Will it even work, with them being teens? I was told many times courts usually say they are old enough to decide but its not that simple when dad is crazy.
I also talk openly with my kids about him just not seeing the world like we do and having mental health issues he doesn’t understand to seek help.
I tried setting up an online calendar, asking 24h notice, nothing works.
I’ve always been afraid of what going to court would unravel (ex.the abuse) and could leave us less safe as that would floor him and he’d seek revenge. Like all, he keeps very different appearance for the outside world.
I’ve been encouraging kids to see him to appease him, and keep him calm, in all honesty not doing what would be best for them which would be not to see him at all.
Just (detail removed by Moderator) he freaked out because I did something very ordinary with kids and didnt let him know so it spoiled what he wanted to do with them in the evening (even if he never agreed to see them).
He wants me to tell him everything i do or have planned with kids when I have them, while he never plans anything and expect kids to just be willing and available when he calls.
Anyway not sure what next steps to take.
Tried calling him, insisting on a decent grown up chat, but its just shouts and abuse… helpless.

[Twisted Sister]

Honestly, it sounds like he’s controlling you just as much as he has ever done, and I’m not blaming here, no judgement from me, as I have been through same.

However, I would speak to the children more openly about their rights that they are old enough to choose now.

If they don’t want to see him they absolutely need support for that, if you are concerned this will cause issues from him, then contact the police to forewarn them that you are now supporting the children not to see him because they don’t want to, and haven’t wanted to for a while. They’ll probably need your strength behind them to do this, especially as you have been encouraging them to go when they don’t want to (I’ve done it, as I’m sure many have).

Let them know that they absolutely have the say here, and every right to stop contact with their father, and its not due to any condition, or ‘mental illness, which many hang their responsibility for abuses on, its because he knows he can scare you all into complying with his wishes, but if they say no, and stop seeing him, he has the right to apply to court for contact, you don’t have to say anything other than support the children, and the children need support to speak their truth to CAFCASS and Social Services.

Children have rights, maybe speak to Coram Childrens Legal Advice line, for free, for some further legal support to help you understand the possibilities for you all? Speaking to everyone you need to doesn’t do anything other than to help you gain more information, make informed decisions, and feel confident for yourself and your children.

thinking of you.

warmest wishes

ts

[Eyeswideopen]

Thanks TS ❤️
I had an open chat with kids again. Explained I’ll seek mediation and an agreed plan but would try grey rocking him (very hard for me) and be objective/short on my comms with him now. Kids can arrange their time with dad and I’ll communicate what I think is reasonable on the calendar and whatsapp.

I need to disengage and stop feeling responsible for him.
I really hoped for more cooperation and even friendship, can’t help feeling bad he’s pushing everyone away and making his life harder, but it’s not for me to fix…
I’ll look into all those resources, thank you.

It’s difficult, you read all, understand, but my behaviour response to him is hard to shake when you were trained into that for years…

[Lost lady]

Eyes wide open you have been so brave to get this far it inspires me that people do manage to get out . I always have thus need to fix him and help him that I can’t shake and it’s hard to stop doing it so I understand how you are feeling.
You have been so brave and done the hardest part . Sending love and strength xx

[Twisted Sister]

I was just alerted, rereading this, that you are seeking ‘mediation’? Do you mean entering into mediation with your ex? Its widely acknowledged and accepted that domestic abusers will only use such situations for further coercion and abuse. Its hard to talk against them, and to speak freely when they are your abuser, and they will take full advantage of that. Sorry if thats not what you were meaning, but I just wanted to flag that up and something thats probably not advisable.

I wish you all the very best with your taking back control, for you and your children

warmest wishes

ts

[Twisted Sister]

It is hard, you’re right. It’s very hard, and yes, many years of conditioning have gone into bringing you to this place where it’s hard to break that.

I am absolutely sure that you have done absolutely everything you can for him, perhaps for far too long, and there comes a time to step back for your own well-being and your children’s.

warmest wishes
ts

[Eyeswideopen]

Thanks TS…
I was thinking of mediation to try get a clear written agreement on coparenting rulws as he keeps distorting what I say and using kids as pawns in all of this, plus abusing my girl. I doubt hed engage anyway and itd give me a path for court should I have to…
But I see what you mean.
The alternative however is to just keep fighting this alone?

[Twisted Sister]

This…

kids still have to endure him, but now alone

and this:

I’ve been encouraging kids to see him to appease him, and keep him calm, in all honesty not doing what would be best for them which would be not to see him at all.

yes, to the first one, I was scared about this, and I think many are, and its often a reason for women to stay with the abuser, because once mum is out of the picture the abuse can and does go on unabated.

Also something I’ve seen many, including myself, do.

…but, you don’t have to fight this alone. Can you contact WA chat to find out about services to support you locally? The children don’t ‘have’ to go to him, if they don’t want to. Children suffering abuse should not be forced to see their abuser, especially alone. Would they consider that they could be happy seeing him if a third party were there?

Ask them, what, in an ideal world, they would like their relationship with their father to be like, if they could have anything. I know mine were very scared of being alone with him, court need to listen to children even if they think the mother is lying and father saying you are guilty of alienation.

If they don’t want to see him anywhere, anytime, then support them in this. They can refuse to go, and if he then decides to apply for court ordered contact, the children would be asked why they don’t want to see their dad, if they are scared of him, etc.

Mediation can also be relayed, so you never meet, which is certainly best in abuse situations.

warmest wishes

ts

[StrongLife]

He never even admitted he faces problem and blamed me instead of himself. I no longer waste my time on that sort of idea because ultimately I’m no longer with him.

I wish you the best in your future for yourself and family.

[Author]

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