Heads spinning

[Chocolatebunnie]

So it’s emotional abuse?

Or is it?

My counsellor won’t say and say he’s thinking like a man, they think differently, he’s autistic maybe? It’s the substance abuse so maybe it’s just that and actually you can’t say if it’s abuse until he’s no longer abusing substance.

So social worker say it’s not for them, and has referred me elsewhere.

Speaking to my kids counsellor helped they described him as the ‘elephant in the room’ that we are experiencing emotional vacuuming that maybe I’m not able to make a decision but with the referral I mentioned that the decision will be made for me, I’m not understanding this.

Back to the school who referred us to social services, they are not happy and are requesting social workers again.

Thing is my kid said is every day the abuse, I’m not seeing this, and school seem to exaggerate what’s been said.

I feel out of control that everyone has a opinion and I’m more confused than ever.

He’s stopped using for a week now. Much better mood but I’m not sure I can trust him or move on from where I’m at. I keep thinking what if this is all in my head and it’s me.

I need some space, I need some clarity

[fizzylem]

Hi CB, yes its confusing having so much info and different professional opinions for sure; and now I’m about to add another, because I feel quite uncomfotable with what you’ve said about your counsellor.

Please can I ask you to ask your counsellor if he has had any previous experience of helping people with domestic abuse? Because it sounds to me like he has none. If he has not then you need to walk on, ask for someone who has.

Firstly, if he is an addict he his not available to you or his children, he is not able to parent / father is he – he’s an absent father.

Secondly, using a substance is not an excuse for abuse – the counsellor should know this and be saying this to you.

Thirdly, a trained counsellor with experience should be able to spot abuse when he hears it and will say this.

I don’t think you have the right kind of support in this counsellor at all flower x

[AlwaysSorry]

Hi CB,

Completely agree with FL, this counsellor does not sound like someone who can help you at all or has any inkling of the dynamics of abuse and how addiction and abuse are two different things.

You absolutely need some space to find clarity again and a better counsellor would be able to help you with that. Have you read Lundy Bancroft’s Why Does He Do That? There is a chapter on addiction that I think might be beneficial for you to read as it can help you to see it’s two different things. Abuse is a choice, he chooses to put you and your children down. In other words that means that while he hasn’t been using this past week, he has also chosen not to be abusive. But as you know, that can change and it also means that every time he has been abusive he has given himself permission to do so where he could have opted not to.

I think it’s a very healthy sign that you do not know if you can trust him. Listen to that voice inside you as that is your gut feeling, your instinct and your experience with this man talking. Have you spoken to Women’s Aid about your options? They won’t force you to leave him but it might help to talk it through with them so that you see there are ways out of this if that is the path you want to take. Is there perhaps somewhere he can go to live for a while so you two get some time apart or are you able to take you and the kids somewhere for a bit? Just to help get you some free space to find your way through the confusion?

Keep posting x

[Chocolatebunnie]

Thank you fizzylem and always sorry, the counsellor advertises that they are experienced with abuse and relationships I’m waiting for some from WA which will be more helpful and if current counselling is getting any better I will stop rather than let this make things worse.

I think you’re right he has chosen not to use substances but also chosen not to abuse, Howe he has just asked “why no sex it’s been months” it has actual been weeks.

He says he’s being nice, doing things to help so why? I said we need friendship, cuddles (not gropes) and holding hands, the basics first. He says I’m in control of the situation and he’s given up!

He also knows I have an important meeting (detail removed by moderator), just before his questions about sex I say I have butterflies about meeting as it involves (detail removed by moderator). I don’t know what I’m facing, he said oh well never mind. Really supportive, great timing?

After all the problems I’ve had because of him he thinks he can be nice for a few days and we’re good again? Most women would’ve kicked him out, and sex the last things on their mind!!!

[Chocolatebunnie]

Also I have the book but it’s finding the opportunity to read as obviously don’t want him to find what I’m reading, so need some space.

I also read through my old posts and can see patterns, so apologies for keep posting but it’s serving a purpose so to speak, it’s my only real place to get advice which is appreciated and vent x*x

[AlwaysSorry]

Never apologise for posting on here – it’s so helpful not just with realising patterns but also as an outlet where we can speak truthfully without fear of repercussions.

That’s no support at all and in many ways he reminds me of my ex. My ex had this rule that I wasn’t allowed to bring up the past (he could, I couldn’t), but because of this rule he somehow thought that I should be able to forgive and forget the scars that I was faced with every day when looking in the mirror. He truly could not understand that just because the scars didn’t physically hurt anymore that the same couldn’t be said for the memory of what had caused the scars. I broke his rules often (which just furthered his agenda of making me believe I was the problem and that I was the cause of whatever assault he’d put me through) but you can’t just let go of all the bad they have done just because they want you to, or because they’ve acted nicely for x amount of time so think they deserve you “letting it go” or “reward them”.

You are allowed to feel hurt by his actions even if they are “now in the past” and you are absolutely allowed to want to build up intimacy without fearing being pestered for sex and you can always always vent on here x

[Chocolatebunnie]

Alwayssorry It’s sad to hear what you went through with your ex, especially when you mentioned your physical scars also, hugs to you x

In my situation and not as bad as yours but I understand exactly it doesn’t go away what has been done to somebody’s emotions and healing takes time, there’s forgiveness too. You can only forgive if sometimes genuinely sorry. And if I’m right your ex was not. My husband is not. You can not heal or forgive in that situation.

He has started using again. The build up was there. It was a intense feeling of anxiety for me, he was edgy, distant and then on about needing a new hobby which I am full support of.

The anxiety is so intense for me I just “know” then he pops outside for a cigarette and on return, he admits he’s using again. So yes he is addicted and yes it does affect the household and yes he’s not nice to be around.

However, the youngest two kids he was fine with, it was me who seemed to be pushed aside. Now I’m guessing that’s was his “choice” I’m fed up with the constant eggshells how can you function as a mother, a person even?

After his cigarette he wants to be friends I can’t keep up.

It’s a new day and another mood I’m sure.

[diymum@1]

no wonder your heads spinning depending on what hes doing your unable to make any changes for the better. what strikes me is your the one picking up all the peices with the school and the counsellor. hes not having to take any responsibility and this is his irresponsibilty and selfishness that has brought you here. i dont know him but how would he react to trying to sort this out? speaking to people about the kids – would he take some responsibility if he new there was a consequence ie the relationship was over? i realise its not that simple i think there is some trauma bonding here xx much love diymum

[AlwaysSorry]

Hi there CB,

That didn’t last long then 🙁 I’m sorry to hear he is using again but as with any addiction, you can never stop until you set your mind to it and then often further help is needed. It’s not quite the same, but I gave up cigarettes (the legal kind) many years ago but I could only quit when I had actually decided that I wanted to quit. It was never enough for me to look at saving money, becoming more healthy, having to smoke outside because of these new regulations coming in. Nope, it wasn’t until I wanted to quit and I wanted to quit for me. I think it’s the same for every addiction, unless the willpower is there, the likelihood of it lasting is slim.

It also seems he has given himself permission to be abusive again, when you feel you are walking on eggshells that is him being abusive. You should be able to feel comfortable in your home, but he is making that very difficult isn’t he. It sounds like the cycle was starting over with tension building, so most definitely he knows what he is doing. And the point is to keep you confused, on your toes and indeed that is no way for a person to function.

It matters not what type of scars are left behind, physical or mental, any abuse leaves scars and indeed forgiving it comes so much easier when dealing with remorseful people. Sometimes we have to forgive ourselves rather than them. We don’t owe them anything, we are only ever accountable for our own actions and that also means you are not accountable for his actions, only he is. I’ve recently starting reading Lundy Bancroft’s “Daily Wisdom for Why does he do that encouragement for women involved with angry and controlling men”. There is about a page worth of reading every day in that book that focuses on helping us heal. I think it’s helpful, I’m only 10 days in, but they are nice little encouragements indeed – perhaps they could be helpful to you too?

[Chocolatebunnie]

Diymum and Alwayssorry

You both make perfect sense, it’s so true he has no intentions in giving up, he said so too, I was hoping he had changed his mind when he stopped using. I thought it was actions rather than words.

He will go back to using all day everyday I’m sure with little breaks where we all suffer,

He is trying to mess with my head, the day started ok. Then he came to make a drink with me in kitchen and says “another day in paradise” I asked him what this meant. Now I am anxious and paranoid as things haven’t been great between us. I now realise what he should be doing is being positive and communicating with me to improve the relationship.

Instead when I asked what he actually meant he said “nothing”, that’s not communicating. I said was it a positive or a negative comment as I’m confused he said I don’t know what you mean?

I asked again a bit later explaining that due to circumstances I’m insecure and could take his comment either way. This is when he did not reassure me but made me sound irrational, over sensitive and really made me think what am I doing?

Back to reality, gradually figuring things out, it’s clear he did it on purpose, he is trying to make me feel insecure and needy. Normally it would’ve worked. It did but not for long.

It’s so difficult being with someone who makes you feel like this but then, he can be that guy who I love.

Have the book you suggest I have a few to read. It does explain things well.

Will explore trauma bonding too thank you all x*x

[Chocolatebunnie]

I do agree trauma bonding now I’ve looked it up, now that’s a can of worms going back to my childhood

He pestered me again for sex, he knew from what I’d already said I wanted to feel loved, some affection away from the bedroom and for things to settle down between us that I wasn’t interested. I had explained for a women there’s a need for this and trust, to feel secure.

Well he was very insistent, joking about it kinda being nice but cheeky, I moaned about it and said I was tired and then I gave in, thinking just go ahead it might be ok, and half way the through it felt awful, I don’t feel the same emotionally or physically in this relationship.

I have realised that I shouldn’t have to give in and that was on my mind.

He asked me this morning if I was ok, I obviously said yes despite my feelings. I part want things to be alright but now I see him for who he is how can it be? But I wonder if he knows he wrong to pressure me?

He says with holding affection from him is controlled behaviour on my part. I wondered if that’s abusive, am I becoming abusive?

I mentioned this to my counsellor not this incident but similar and she didn’t say anything about it am I over reacting am I looking into everything too deeply looking for the abuse, is there any at all?

It’s hard to tell, it is a happy home now he’s happy now, he got what he wanted.

[AlwaysSorry]

I’m so sorry to read this happened to you, CB. That was absolutely not ok, no woman should have to give in, no woman should have to do that for a happy home if she doesn’t want to. It’s good you realise that you shouldn’t have had to give in, but I suspect it hurts terribly too. Don’t blame yourself for it, he was pestering you, he might have tried to disguise it as fun and games and jokes but we know it was all said and done to get what he wanted. That’s pressuring you and forcing you and you did not deserve that, sweetheart. I wish I could give you a really big hug right now.

Have you ever heard of reactive abuse? Sometimes we react in ways we normally wouldn’t when we are being abused, like withholding affection. This can indeed be abusive behaviour, my ex was quite fond of the silent treatment which hurt me terribly, but for you that’s not what’s going on here. You are being emotionally drained by this man, as a reaction you don’t feel affectionate towards him. That’s quite a normal and healthy response I should say. If this man was this amazing good guy that we hope they can be all the time, I bet you would be showing affection then wouldn’t you? I think so. Sometimes they will twist and warp things as us controlling or abusing them and if taken out of context, it can sometimes look like it, for example I scratched my ex’s hand once, I normally wouldn’t do that, but he was preventing me from being able to breathe so I reacted. When he says you are showing controlling behaviour, that’s just more abuse from him really to keep you confused and look to yourself and your own behaviour rather than at his. It’s really difficult to see through, but remember this man is abusing you and forcing you to give in – it is absolutely no wonder that you don’t feel affectionate or show affection towards him.

I think they will sometimes know that what they’ve done is wrong, but at the same time they don’t “let it in” because they will feel entitled as well and it got them what they wanted. If you had done something you knew was wrong, you would be making amends wouldn’t you? Though I know you would never do something as horrible as he did, of course not, but if you stepped on someone’s foot by accident, you’d know to say sorry, wouldn’t you? They’re very good at coming up with rationalisations and justifications for whenever their behaviour is in the spotlight. Notice how the spotlight was turned on you so that you could wonder if you were the abusive one? If he had been the one stepping on your foot, would he be saying sorry or would he be saying “sorry but you really need to learn to mind your feet”? The only apologies I ever got from my ex were of the latter kind. They were never apologies at all.

[Tiffany]

Loads of really great advice on this thread. I have no doubts that your partner is abusive. I just wanted to add this point. You do not have to be sure that he is abusive to leave. He is making you unhappy. He is making the kids unhappy. These are solid reasons to leave even without concrete evidence there is abuse. The only reason you are doubting this is because you are being abused. But honestly, it’s ok just to leave someone because you are unhappy in the relationship.

It’s also ok to leave someone because they have a substance abuse problem. My current partner isn’t abusive, but he has a history of addiction. He’s been sober since before I met him. But he knows that if he relapses that is the end of our relationship. I haven’t got the energy to support and deal with an addict who is using. And that is ok. You can’t help him to try and get sober if he doesn’t want to get sober. You will just drive yourself nuts trying. Eventually you have to admit it that nothing is going to change and get yourself out of the situation.

That would be my advice to you now. Stop trying to figure out the type of abuse. Stop trying to see anything from his point of view. Focus your attention on what you and the kids want, and start getting advice on how to get out. I don’t think you will have any regrets, and once you are out you will have the headspace to work out exactly what happened and how to move on emotionally. That’s what I did. I had a mantra, “it’s ok to do what is best for me” and it was hard to stick to at first, but I did it, and I got out, and only then could I fully comprehend what I had escaped from.

[diymum@1]

awe CB your not trauma bonded to him because off what happened to you as a child. were similar because i also thought that. i expect this because my mum did xy and z my mum(although she was ill) would sometime be quite degrading with me when i was little and noone was there. but you know the book Always sorry mentioned this actually explains trauma bonding very well. so whether u had or had not been emotionally hurt as a child you would still be trauma bonded to him. its the push and pull effect so reward and then take away, they push us so far that were ready to leave we confide in friends family try to leave then cant (because of the bonding and conditioning) so we go back the family loose faith in us we become isolated so therefor the bond strengthens we need them even more. so this is the product off his abuse. he knows your feeling insecure and hes using this to keep you push and pull again. i had this too all i wanted was stability and love and he played on that x*x you are definitely not abusive – but this is a very common feeling due to dv its down to being shamed constantly and projected onto tho and thats the truth xx your lovely and so strong xxxx love diymum

[Chocolatebunnie]

The replies have been really helpful and so has my counselling session earlier, yes there is a push and pull and reward to keep me there. It’s just very hard to accept the reality of what actually exists in my marriage.

In counselling i went through the aspects of a healthy relationship earlier and it was hard to find anything that was healthy. She says it’s a matter of time before I have had enough and end things. There will be a time when I say no more.

There is no help from social services, unless we are flagged one more time. The only help for now would only make matters worse so I have decided to leave that avenue alone.

It’s also true whether or not there is abuse I am not happy and my two elder are unhappy too. If the younger ones are not affected yet they certainly will before long.

Therefore it’s time to plan ahead. I’ve set a rough timescale to work with and am meeting with WA support worker end of week. I’m going to gather as much support as I can. If there’s no change in him then I will have to make the changes myself. I know that will be extremely hard. I’m anxious that I will again build myself up and he will win me round again.

Thing is it needs to happen, when you’re flagged up by school and social services and possibly the police, when there’s a addiction and someone who is emotionally absent it’s reason enough.

It seems maybe he needs me more than I need him and that’s why he won’t let me go.

Thank you for your replies, I have found all your kind words and advice a huge support

love CB💕

[diymum@1]

your seeing it clearly but being bonded like this is very scary for you to think about. i would say i felt a kind off terror at the time. it does subside but there is a really hard part where you stave all those feelings off but its doable for example i went from feelings off terror to feeling nothing. along the way i felt very hurt- i then got really angry and then i fought him now ive come to terms with what happened and know im not abusive and this was not my fault. its the same dynamic for every womman in this situation. the grieving process might be in a different order as above. its a case off gripping the bull by the horns – use mindfullness get all the help you can and use the techniques they show you to cope. do what you have to do withe the end goal being that you can keep your kids emotionally healthy and safe what is the alternative? thats how i look at it xxxx you sound like your really getting there now as compared to a few months ago xx i know you have the strength to do this xxxx love diymum

[Chocolatebunnie]

Diymum the way you describe the feelings after separating are spot on, that’s why I go back, I have had panic attacks but then felt completely calm and positive but the thought of life with out him can be unbearably overwhelming. I just haven’t given myself a chance and he has not given me space to move on, I can’t go no contact so this will be something I need to consider and prepare for.

I know it will take time, it’s going to be hard.

Tonight I heard him with one of the youngest, getting frustrated with them, my boy, saying don’t scream like a girl and I know some people will brush that off as toughening up, not too bad but when you know that there’s more to it than this, alarm bells start ringing again, things will continue with the younger ones.

I don’t agree with his discipline, he has smacked this child 3 times in last month. I never ever smack it seems I have no say in this, it is controlled too, not always spontaneous. Again some will argue perhaps that’s ok, but only because the law is slightly unclear as to when this us ok, I believe there’s always another option discipline is not about control. I am aware he feels he can do this but he is also emotionally unavailable at the same time.

I guess I’m saying I witness what is happening and realise I have the power to make a change, and empowering as that sounds the grieving for what I thought I had is equally as powerful and a source of my anxiety as the life you thought you had is not how it really is, reality is harsh I guess.

However, I’m so glad I have posted on here as when I do put plans into action I can reread these moments to remind myself of why it has to be.

Diymum you’re alway reply and are so helpful and I picture a very warm caring person.

Thank you x*x

[diymum@1]

and you you sound really lovely 🙂 and kind and sensitive x*x

i know exactly how you feel very stifled in even making these decisions – i had panic attacks too when i put him out off the house on many occasions for me to end up on my hands and knees for him to come home. to watch him leave with his case it was heart wrenching and i thought it was love. it wasnt it was me needing him because i was so traumatised – i thought he was the one who could fix me but how wrong i was he was tearing me to peices in reality. my family too there heads often in there hands and i was told why are you so needy? where is your self esteem. its been torn out off me slowly over such a long time.

you know i dont think its ok to smack a child chocolate bunny only in one instance i do if they are in danger and dont know that they are. a short sharp shock. only then would i and have smacked any off my kids. i was smacked only 3 times as a kid and that was for being disrespectful. i think there are better ways to show kids the right way. your hubby maybe dosent know how to discipline them in an effective way. ive been reading about parenting and kids have a natural need to have power – in healthy ways. im not sure if this would rock the boat but its something to aim for if eventually you break free from him. what ive learned is its (which is common sense really but i wasnt all that aware of this) you need to work together with kids so get them to help with chores and be part off a functioning house hold and you can adapt this to what they can acheive without them getting frustrated. to give them one to one time each and show them how much we love being with them.then they are less likely to look for attention in a negative way. to walk away when they start to whine and break us down even to go to the bathroom and lock ourselves in – it shows them you have boundaries. im only half way through this book and it does all seem very simple but before i was calling time outs and taking treats and pocket money away it dosent work in the long term. my main aim is to make sure my daughter dosent have an entitled attitude xxxx that scares me alot- because my worry is that these men teach kids violence is ok to get respect its not its vice versa xxxx love diymum

[Chocolatebunnie]

Why am I still here, just reading through all my posts and my god it feels like im reading something someone else has written, do i dissasociate. I know its not someone else, obviously, but reading it i think what the hell are you doing why are you not out of this yet, why?

Nothing really changes does it? I mean it gets better if he knows you wont put up with it, whatever ‘it’ is at the time, but then there will be somehting new to cause a problem, theres always somehting in the end, it can never be truly happy with him, never!

He has really tried hard with the younger children to form a bond, to push me out and I feel its another attempt of control, sometimes I think for a minute that maybe his parenting is improving with age and he is getting better, and then I see otherwise, he still hits the child I have mentioned before,and its justified as disapline by hime, NEVER ME and when this happens i am not around to see the whole situation and have to take his word for it. I hate physical punishment, it is also a trigger for me.

Our child who is not really naughty, just a mishcievf and with the right guidance, I find, not a problem, will listen and calm down and does not need a forceful approach.

So other than that its been really calm and even happy for a while, ive been waiting for this time to come again and yep here it is.

Why dont i do something? I feel like im not really taking it all in properly. He switches back to being ‘normal’ and its like nothing ever happened and you just get on with it dont you. I often think, this it it im going to tell him its over, i am going to say it and then in my head something pops out to say not yet this is about to happen or this is arranged or this is booked or ….. excuses? Except now this child is getting older and speaking up and I am listening to what they say. I am not allowed to say what I think about this disapline and challenge his parenting without him getting angry and it being a problemf or everyone, he has denied doing it and called our child a liar and you know what ‘he’ is the liar.

I really needed to write this Ive nobody to share it with, my elder kids mental health is in tatters and i dont want to bother them, family are no good and friends too all think hes ok and I would be making a fuss over nothing.

[Chocolatebunnie]

I want to add that i will and am protecting my child, I will not leave them at home with out my presence, my child is safe, im just very upset for them and dont want long lasting damage mentally.

[Author]

Posts