How can you tell if its culture or abuse? in a mixed race relationship

This topic contains 19 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of runner runner 2 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #31246
    Profile photo of runner runner 
    Participant

    I was advised to join this forum by domestic violence hotline. They have said they think its definate abuse. Initially I just thought it was a cultural issue. My partner is (detail removed by moderator) Asian british born and I am British born caribbean. When I met he had told me he was married but that him and his wife could not reconcile. Part of the reason they supposedly split up was that his family often said nasty things around her and she had issues carrying a baby.

    (detail removed by moderator) years later I get pregnant albit planned and partner talks about having a Nikkah. When he moved in he started laying down conditions such as he has to see his wife twice a week to make sure she is ok. I asked him why he was still married to her he said because he will loose face value. I think he should have told me this before planning a baby with me an risking my health.

    At our little girls (age removed by moderator) birthday party it was held (detail removed by moderator) and majority of hus family there he had the nerve to take me to one side and tell me his wife was outside she wants to give our daughter a present. I said no he looked pityful. And we hardly spoke to mefor a few days. When I brought it up he was almost ignorant to it. I asked why he thought that was a good idea. He replied she asked to give her a present. I asked him since when did we give presents to those who we don’t know. He didn’t answer. I told him that I had already told him I want nothing to do with his wife its totally inappropriate and that she is to have nothing to do with our daughter. I asked him if I could speak to her and he snapped no, there is no point. Everytime I have pointed out whats wrong with this relationship and why its not right including how I feel he says he will file for divorce but doesn’t get back to me about it. He knows i’m unhappy and instead of trying to solve it he has decided to shut down doesn’t really talk to me about anything. Unless it regagards our child. I am now pregnant with baby number 2. I spoke to a midwife about the issue as I really was not sure what to make of it she asked me if he is a narssacist.

    He occasionally goes down stairs to sleep and the only excuse he has given is because he snores. But he comes back about 3 hours later. I find this very odd.

    Also the hiuse he has with his wife is his his wife lives. She has family down the road from her.

    I think my partner has lied to me about him and his and him breaking up.

    Im so emotionally dizzy. Just can’t work it out.

  • #31253
    Profile photo of SaharaD SaharaD 
    Participant

    It’s abuse. Abuse is about power and control and entitlement.

    He has power and control over you and his wife. He tells you both what to do and do his bidding. His wife will do what he says because she lives in his house and is tied to him due to the marriage contract. I’m assuming that he is a Muslim. As a Muslim yes he is allowed more than one wife. However he is supposed to treat each wife equally and with respect. In an ideal polygamist family, the wives behave like sisters and meet together with the husband. their children play together and they work together in running the households and looking after the children. So it would not be uncommon for one wife to look after another wife’s children. From the religious aspect it is he who has to agree to the divorce, his wife will find it very hard finding a religious leader who will release her from her marriage. Legally, She can divorce him but then she may be disowned by her family, threatened by his family and find herself homeless. Also as she has a problem having children, another man from that community may not wish to marry her again. He keeps the children and the carrot of a NIkkah/marriage contract dangling over your head so that you will submit and do his bidding. Of course he shuts down he doesn’t want anything to change. He wants to keep you as his child bearer and her as his culturally acceptable wife. He believes that his wife is not a stranger and is part of his family and it is acceptable to for his wife to give his daughter a present even though she is not the natural mother. And once you go off sex or are too tired for sex, he will find another woman. He will be and is the ring master- one woman as the respectable wife, one woman as the child bearer and one woman for sex.

    From the British/Caribbean perspective, you are the outside woman. You are the bit on the side. The other woman, the mistress. Having his cake and eating it too. Plus he’s not providing you with a home (as he should in islam), he’s coming and going between your place and his marital home. I personally refuse to be the outside woman with any western man and if a Muslim man, was to approach me I would request to speak to his wife without him being there to coerce her. (detail removed by moderator)

    For all intents and purposes, he has no intention of divorcing her and he also does not want to lose you so he keeps you pregnant and promises divorce. He has no intention of “fixing” what is wrong in this setup because he truly believes that he is entitled to behave this way and that there is nothing wrong with it.

    He’s manipulating you both and causing emotional damage. He is scheming and designing to make you both submit to his will. From an islamic view he should not be keeping you from seeing his first wife and he should marry you. So he is abusing the situation there and from a western/ Caribbean view he should divorce her and marry you. He won’t marry you both because he realising that then you can both can conspire together against him and have more power over him. A true muslim man with more than one wife is not worried about that occurring. He also doesn’t lie to his wives.

    It’s only you who can put an end to what is wrong with the relationship and kick him out. I would suggest you do not marry him. He will become worse once you are married. If you are considering staying in this relationship, I suggest that you do go and speak to his wife without his permission (you don’t really need his permission in the UK).It’s probably likely that he still has sex with her. They have to see both wives equally during the week.

    If you are unhappy why don’t you end the relationship? Or are you afraid of what he might do? Or of being alone? Or being a single mother to two children? My grandmother was a single mother to 6 children (due to unfortunate accidental deaths of 2 fathers) in a time before benefits and children’s centres. If she can do it so can you.

    I suggest ringing the helpline to get a clearer picture on the situation and your emotions.

    • #31260
      Profile photo of runner runner 
      Participant

      I have to add his did phone me when I was (detail removed by moderator) months pregnant with the first child. She said she got the number from him which he denied.

      I totally declined Nikka as I do not want to be a second wife and I believe he lieed and he knew I caught him out as he said you made your mind up about me. But its felt like toture and I am just getting my head around it all.

      He pays toward rent and nursery fees but has no bills in his name (detail removed by moderator). Also his name was changed once by deed poll. As he wanted to have the family name back home.

      There are divorces in his family so i doubt he would be outcast.

      His niece also asked me who he lives with which I found bizarre.

  • #31254
    Profile photo of Positiveandlookingahead Positiveandlookingahead 
    Participant

    Oh my god. I have read this all and I am SHOCKED! This is not right on any level. It’s right that he is totally manipulating the situation for his own benefit. If he wanted to divorce his wife he would have done it. He has not been clear to you regarding his intentions when he got in a relationship with you. Please speak to someone specialist regarding this due to your ethnicity. I too am from an ethnic minority background and I didn’t understand it was this technical. Please remember that regardless of culture it is your right to be in a relationship with a man who treats you as number one. I am shocked in this day and age women are subjected to this. Please speak to your GP too xxxx

    • #31256
      Profile photo of runner runner 
      Participant

      I never saw it as abuse for ages I just thought something is not right here. But maybe I just needed to respect his culture it was only when someone asked if he was a narcassist and said its a form of emotional abuse that I started enquiring. I come from a family of both parents always having been there. So in a way I guess id feel a failure if I split. I know I have to. So am going to make an appointment with CAB.

      I was going to try to speak to his wife but my friend who was goin to come with me had a crisis at the time. For me I think at some point ill tell him to go just see his child.

      I feel slightly unsafe but not as though he will physically hurt me, more as in what next.

      He doesn’t cuddle or kiss me whereas before our daughter he would do that a lot. Not sure I want him at the birth or my mum as she seems dismissive at times. Sometimes ill ask her things and she will blank me. Just interested in our daughter really. I have noone who will go out their way to helo me so I can go off and get thinhs done as a consequence I have to do everything and take
      Her with me and as anyone will tell you she is very difficult at (age removed by moderator)

  • #31291
    Profile photo of shine bright 2 shine bright 2 
    Participant

    Hi Runner,

    I am muslim and was married for a lot of years to a Muslim man. My situation was almost the reverse of yours in that I was the respectable, culturally matched wife…but for fun he would go out ro a club and pick up someonw not from our culture. Him getting another wife was used as a threat.
    As Sahara says theres aupposed to be consent for a second wife…all very nice in theory…but in reality I know women in my country who was pressured or treated so rubbish they just wanted someone to treat them. Is it all cultually…yes and no. I dont agree with polygamy..personally i thil its wrong and there alotta modern muslims who wud agree with me. That said there are plenty of men in evey culture who lie and cheat…so whats the difference?
    I do think there are things in cultures that dont help at all.My ex always argued that a man cant rape his wife cos it says in quran they he can go to her whenever he wants..but again people can make anything suit their own twisted view. He also hit me…badly and said it says its ok in quran. I have struggled with all this cos i love my God..I think I have git my head round it by thinking that there are good people and there are bad people…end of. Im not asian im arab…but there sound like alot of similarities.
    I left…and its been hard. I have several kids…it can be done.

  • #31294
    Profile photo of runner runner 
    Participant

    Hi Shine bright I’m so sorry you were on the other side it must be really difficult. I do not hate this woman I totally respect his wife in fact wish I just treated him as I would any other man that was in his position instead I thought I was just being considerate. I think he is just taking advantage of the script in the koran. One of his excuses is he thought I was libral.

    I’m glad you got out of that. Im on a very low wadge (detail removed by moderator). So not sure how ill afford it but will be going to CAB for some financial advice.

  • #31298
    Profile photo of Positiveandlookingahead Positiveandlookingahead 
    Participant

    I am a religious person from another ethnic minority background and I do not believe God would ever condone any type of violence on women! What they are doing here is using the woman to their advantage and interpreting it in that way. Again, I have non-Muslim friends who have read the quaran and have not come to that conclusion. They are trying to brainwash you. We done to the both of you for accepting one another because you’re both on the opposite side. It isn’t the women’s fault it’s his fault! He’s the one totally manipulating the situation for his own benefit. Please please speak to your GP go on the pill secretly if you have to. Please do not add any more ties to this man you deserve better! All women deserve to be treated like Queens. Pure and simple there’s nothing more to it xxxx

    • #31309
      Profile photo of runner runner 
      Participant

      I totally agree with you positiveand looking ahead. Its not the religion its being used to his advantag. I don’yt know his wife and have not accepted her. I dont think its her fault I think he had an affair outside the marrigage. But I cannot be sure. I don’t see myself sleeping with this guy. I havent since I got pregnant (detail removed by moderator). I am worth more than what he is giving me.

  • #31299
    Profile photo of shine bright 2 shine bright 2 
    Participant

    Tbh…i was sometimes just glad he wasnt with me…and i guess that is sometimes also.why women accept second wives. I think my culture there is alot of presure. We marries really young. Not technically arranged, but pushed into it. If your partner had a wife picked for him then there will be alot of pleasure to stay with her and for us divorce is still a bit of a thig. I asked the Imam and he basically said be a better wife! So in some ways they both be trapped but its not fair on you ia it?? Im not sure if its rude to ask…feel free to say it is..but are u Muslim or did u convert? I know this sounds bad but my ex thought of non muslim, non arab women differently. Its not right though.
    I hope you have good luck at CAB..

  • #31308
    Profile photo of runner runner 
    Participant

    Shinebright i knew the culture was rigid but not so much as you are teaching me. No I am not a convert. I did think I may be being seen as differently. I even thought he was just using me for a child.

    No I am not a muslim. i’m a christian.

  • #31310
    Profile photo of shine bright 2 shine bright 2 
    Participant

    Just wanted to second what other have said..people usw religion and culture thy choose. Not all muslims are rigid…not at all. For me i will not make my daughter have arranged marriage or try and make decisions for them. Its says in quran that all people are equal as are the teeth of a comb..it also says that paradiae is a the feet of yhe mothers. Bad people dont choose these bits to quote.

    When i came back to uk with my husband iw ore niqab which is seen as strict and rigid…but even the qord Islam means peace and for me i like to accept all people. I guess one person or even ten dont reflect a whole religion or culture. Bad people are just bad people. Take care..

  • #31313
    Profile photo of runner runner 
    Participant

    Thank you. You are right. My partner does not even pray once a day (detail removed by moderator). I had a bad feeling as I know some his family believe in black magic so i do nt know if the family are against me. Im paranoid. You take care I am grateful for your help. And wish you all the best.

  • #31512
    Profile photo of runner runner 
    Participant

    I spoke to a religous organisation that is based in Islam. The woman said this culture are likeley to stay married to their wives even though they don’t get on with them. Regardless he had not appologised for what he has done and thats wrong. I have some health health professionals coming to check I am ok. As its sent anxiety levels up.

  • #31515
    Profile photo of Positiveandlookingahead Positiveandlookingahead 
    Participant

    That’s ok my lovely I hear where you are coming from. This isn’t religion or really culture. I know that back in the day with our cultures if a wife was ill or couldn’t have children, the husband would remarry snd keep they woman in the family. I don’t have anyone in my family who does this and I don’t judge. But, my view is if it really was acceptable by ‘culture’ then women could have as many husbands as they want! I don’t think any God would make one rule up for a man and one for a woman.

    I don’t blame you for not wanting to sleep with him. You’ve seen through his true colours. Please speak to the helpline about what to do next. We are with you whatever you chose to do xxxx

  • #31544
    Profile photo of runner runner 
    Participant

    I’m guessing that his wife probably said to him thats what he should do. But I can imagine that if I stay it will get worse I seriously doubt he will go on holday with us ever. This weird stuff about his passport never arrived and he doesn’t seem that interested yet He is British born.
    My only thought is because he is goinv between houses he cannot go on holiday with. Just wish he could be straight.

  • #31681
    Profile photo of Ayanna Ayanna 
    Participant

    Hi Runner, this man just wants kids. Sorry to be so blunt.
    His wife cannot give him any. So she agreed that he makes kids somewhere else. That is his condition for her not to leave her. She agreed because she wants to remain married.
    She wants to get close to you because of the kids. She is well married to him and always will be and she will try to get to your kids through presents.
    The best thing to do is to get rid of this man.
    Get him out of your house and cut all contact.
    Do not put his name on the kid’s birth certificates.
    It is painful but in the end you will be glad you kicked him out.
    Keep posting here. Big hugs!

  • #31699
    Profile photo of runner runner 
    Participant

    Or did she black mail him. As he is keepin me from contacting her? As she phoned me with when pregnant with first baby and said me and him have ruined her life.

    I think he lied to me and made his wife think he was out at work when he was seeing me. So maybe he was saying to make it upto her that I would let her get involved. Well hell no. Absolutely no way would I have agreed to that.

    He must definately want to have invoveled her in our daughters life. He is already on birth certificate of first child.
    I think he has turned misearanle as life us not how he wanted.
    Our dauhter is fair (detail removed by moderator).

  • #31711
    Profile photo of shine bright 2 shine bright 2 
    Participant

    Hope ur ok Runner. Just wondering if u took sruff off Lisa?

  • #31712
    Profile photo of runner runner 
    Participant

    Lisa the moderator? She just took time scales off as it can identify a person.

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