How do I do this?

[enofadov]

Been free for a short while
We have two young children
Abuse was emotional, sexual, couple of occasions of pushing.
He’s had contact so far one weekend day and a midweek tea. First overnight stay last weekend.
Trying to now sort out a fixed contact agreement between two of us.
I’ve sakd I’m only willing to do on watsapp.
I suggested alternate weekends with continued midweek collection from school and tea. He suggested alternate overnights with every (Detail removed by Moderator) night to (Detail removed by Moderator) tea with him.
Where do I go from here? I replied this would be very unsettling for children. But we are coming at this from such different view points.
I want to just say ‘you are lucky to have them at all and if this goes to county you may not get them at all’ but I’m trying very hard not to threaten him.
What do I do??

[KIP.]

You stick to what is best for your children and do not deviate. Do not let him carry on his bullying abuse. The bottom line is you’re handing your children to a rapist and abuser. Children learn from their parents. My ex has twisted my child’s mind and I rarely see him. These men are dysfunctional and dangerous. If it was me I would keep all contact to the very bare minimum. If the abuse has to come out in family court you may be asked why you handed your children over. It may weaken your credibility. Get some very good legal advice. Ring Rights for Women for some free advice.

[enofadov]

Thank you KIP
I must remind myself of this ‘ I’m handing my children to a rapist and an abuser’I know it feels wrong but need to keep reminding myself of this.
Can’t bare to think of what he says to them when I’m not there

[freedomtochoose]

Hello there, well done for posting on here.
Yes, minimise contact as others have said.
And three words
Go to court.
Asap.
Grow to your full height as a warrior and put your boxing gloves on, emotionally.
all best
ftc
x

[enofadov]

Thank you Freedom….so scared of court

[fizzylem]

Hi Enofadov, I hear your angst loud and clear, as I can relate so much; and also echoe what KIP says, disfuctional and dangerous.

When you say you are coming at it at different view points, this for me feels like you are placing yourself in a vulnerable position by engaging with him directly.

Do you mean you are thinking about how it could work for the children and he is thinking how he wants it to be for him only?

I learnt that the parental agreement is an emotive subject and that I can not reason with someone who is unwilling to be reasonable, who doesnt think things through, is reactive and does not have the capacity to think about things from anyone elses view point than his own. Dealing with him in these discussions left me wide open to his angry attacks because if I didnt agree or if he didnt like what I said he would do something horrible, either to me or to my daughter, over the last year its been the threat of court, as this is all he has left really, and yes that also terrified me.

We have had 2 agreements now that we did together and I will not make a third, which will be needed when we move, this was because it was such a dreadful process and took about 2 months.

We can not communicate – acknowledge this; an agreement requires both parties to be mature adults. If you disagree with him, which you are almost definately going to do, he can apply for a contact order and there’s nothing you can do.

I suggest not talking about this emotive subject that is destined for disagreements, rather try to get him to recognise that it would be a good thing to get the help of the professionals, otherwise you are living under the threat of court at anytime, you need to try and remove this – ideally you need mediation to become his go to not a court application.

I think you’d be better going to mediation to get this doc drawn up. Mediation can cost around 500 (about 100 a session), but court around 5000, this might help you to sell it to him, tell him it will help you both to think about everything that needs to be covered, how to manage things from here on in. Once this is in place there’s no real need for you to have that much to do with him, you can set it up that way.

I think CAFCAS also offer a service for people who just want help with a parental agreement, if you need an even cheaper option. If you are on benefits your mediation is free, and he will get 2 sessions free, might just be enough to get it going, for him to feel the value in it, of course because of the cost it means he will want to prioritise and make the best use of the time, so its doubtful he’ll bring up half the stuff he would do if dealing with you directly – great.

Youre at risk because you are trying to deal with him alone, so he can do and say as he pleases with you and will – with not a thought about how this impacts on your parental relationship or the children. FL. x

[fizzylem]

I keep a ‘diary of return’ – i record everything my daughter says about her visit and any strange things she says in relation to him when they come up over the week, if we do go to court, I can evidence how he has tried to alienate my daughter from me – and the often abusive and inadequate parenting he gives her. She has also had counselling for anger and this alienation was recorded in these sessions. Sadly her anger has undoubtedly hindered her development, and it has been incredibly challenging to deal with a parent. School should be able to help organise this if you feel they need it, might be good for them anyway to help them adjust to the seperation.

[itwillbeokay]

Fizzylem, this is so helpful, thank you.

Enofadov, I said this on my other reply too but I would definitely ring Rights of Women tonight between 7 and 9pm as they are really helpful and will hopefully reassure you somewhat.

Xx

[enofadov]

Fizzylem thank you.
So do you suggest I not want to go to court???? I have offered mediation.
He’s turned on me now….messages gone short again, kisses gone….ended with (Detail removed by Moderator) which i are as a threat. I’m scared now.
Rang my solicitor and he will call back tomorrow.

[fizzylem]

I cant really say, as I dont know your story enofadov. In your earlier post you said you’d been out for a short while and were trying to set up contact and that you are scared of going to court, you’re at the stage where you need a parental agreement, one you can arrange privately or you can get the court to rule, of course some people need to go to court and find it the best thing they did, for me its been about trying to keep it out of court because this would be a full break down in communication that would make things more difficult for my daughter. I can manage email, not that drops into my inbox mind, where I log in online, and he knows now that this will be removed if he is abusive on it. Its for arrangements only.

I also feel that the justice system often puts the father’s rights above the child’s emotional well-being, her counsellor said to me that unless he’s battering her or there is sexual abuse the courts arent really interested, she also said they are pro dads atm too – I’m sure there will be lots of posts on the forum about this.

I also know that it is highly likely that in court he will get every other weekend and some of the holidays, that yes, it would suit me that it is set in stone some times as I wouldnt have to deal with him at all, but this wont work as well for my daughter, a full week with him for example, in my eyes puts her at risk, even a full weekend does, its much better for her if she sees him for shorter periods, he seems to be able to mostly manage this.

In court the Judge is not interested in what he said she said, its all about evidence, but it will mostly be about what CAFCAS say, the Judge will primarily listen to their findings and rule on this. They interview the child/ren and you both. I don’t really want to put my daughter through this unless we have to.

Your going to court to sort out the acccess times – not win – not prove you’ve been wronged. Ask yourself do the children want to see him? And does he pose a threat to them? If you answer yes then no to the secon q, then I’d say that mediation is probably the better option for you, because you have the chance to influence the parental agreement, the terms, the times, how you will communicate for the children and you can build in self protection also re the way you manage things. In court much less so.

You can even be in seperate rooms if you’re too scared to be in the same room as him, providing the mediator agrees. Dont know if this is a probelm for you or not? It was for me.

Of course he still has the right to apply for an access order at anytime, but it would be more unlikely this will happen if you both stick to the agreement hey. Things often settle down once the access routine is up and has been running for a time, he may also move on fingers crossed. He can rear up from time to time though, and if you have a verbal agreement only this is more likely to happen hey, you need to feel protected, a clear, well defined written PA produced in mediation will help with this. I havent got to the end of the process yet, so I’m not sure how legally binding we can make these agreements, but mediation will advise on this and this doc could be submitted in court if needed hey.

Suppose it depends how dangerous he is. In our agreement he knows he is not permitted to come to my house ever, if he does come he knows I will call the police now and this, so far, seems to be working. Please dont hesitate to call the police if he comes round unnacounced, becomes threatening, harrassing, abusive in any way, if he crosses your boundaries at all, its better to have it on record that you called and why, and it will help you to get an injunction later if needed, all of which will help you in the family court too of course; means you’re in control not him. I really wish I had done this, cant understate this.

From now on think evidence, evidence, evidence. You also need to play the long game, if you can grin and bear him while you get the PA, then there’s a good possibilty you will be mostly be done with him after hey.

If you do go down this route, try to always remember that your only objective is to get the best arrangment possible, you will need to give in and let go of a few of things he wants so that you gain the parts that are really important to you xx

[itwillbeokay]

This is so so so helpful to me aswell tonight. Thank you very very much for explaining.

Xx

[enofadov]

Thank you so much Fizzylem!

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