15th May 2018 at 5:35 pm #58443
I was in a relationship for (Detail removed by moderator) years with a man I loved. Right from the start I knew he was vulnerable and was mentally ill. He had been sexually abused as a child over (Detail removed by moderator) years, pretty much constantly, and he was in a bad way. I thought I could be the one to “save” him, to be the person who loved him enough to make him better and give him a future. It was like that sometimes, he was funny and kind and loving, seemed to adore me. But gradually, he began to become controlling. He deprived me of sleep, controlled what and when I ate ( very late at night even after a long days work ) wouldn’t allow me to tidy my house , used guilt to stop me spending time with friends and family.
On top of the control, he would start nonsensical arguments, ranting for hours about politics, feminism, TV shows. He would often criticise my daughter ( she’s grown up and didn’t live with us) which left me in tears. This criticism was often a jealous rant about the opportunities she had had and how he never got those chances. The first piece of violence I can remember was during one of these verbal attacks on my daughter. It was late at night and I had work in the morning, was trying to sleep. Eventually, I went downstairs to sleep on the couch. ( he wouldn’t allow me into the spare room u set any circumstances. I later found out he was hiding alcohol in there ) he followed me, stood over me screaming abuse. Then he ripped the curtains down and pushed the couch on which I was lying across the room. It crashed into the TV stand, scared me to death.
After that, he would often be violent if I tried to walk away from his extreme rants. He would pin me down, clamp his hand over my mouth, knock my legs from under me and hold me on the floor. I would often become hysterical at this , screaming for help, hoping someone would hear and call the police.i would be left with cuts to my face from his nails and bruises where he held me. Eventually, I would go limp …I felt like I was in shock. He would calm down and then things would be back to normal. I asked him once why he pinned me? He said he had to “subdue” me so our relationship could survive. He also said he needed to “take power back”
Our relationship continued this way-lovely, happy times with a loving, gentle man interspersed with terrifying episodes of being held down and screamed at. He would never admit that this was abuse- he did say he would show mr what abuse was if I wanted him to.
I knew I had to go. But it was so hard… I loved him and I was all he had. He’d cut all contact with family by now as they were all in contact with his father ( yet he’d told them his dad had abused him) He was very vulnerable, often threatened suicide.
I called the police once, after I’d had to escape the house so I could go to work ( he’d pinned me down and scratched at my face) But I rang them later, said he’d gone back to his flat and I was safe. A few months later, he clawed my face and bruised my arms and legs badly so I went to my parents. I tried not to go back but he lay in bed for days , frightened and alone. I went back. My parents withdrew their support as they said I was in an abusive relationship and they couldn’t support me while I was in it.
About (Detail removed by moderator) later I needed to pop to (Detail removed by moderator) and he wanted me to lie in bed next to him while he slept (Detail removed by moderator) He would often force me to stay in bed for a long time, said (Detail removed by moderator) This could be (Detail removed by moderator) hours or so.
On this occasion I left the house to do my errand. When I came back he was screaming abuse. I couldn’t safely get in the house so I called the police for advice. They came to the house. He realised I’d called them ( I locked myself in the car) and took off, sending me a text as he left , threatening suicide. When the police came I showed it to them. They found him, took him to hospital. I hoped he would be sectioned but they rang me hours later (Detail removed by moderator) to go and collect him. I did. He was exhausted but the next day massively abusive, calling me terrible names, trapping me in the bedroom, pushing me down. That night at (Detail removed by moderator) I got up, he follows me, took my phone and laptop then grabbed my wrists, dragging me around the floor on my knees. He was screaming (Detail removed by moderator) He let me up eventually and we sat on the couch. He was verbally abusive, I tried to be passive. I got up for a drink of water, he followed me , pinned me against the wall and bit my face hard.
I knew I had to get out asap. The next morning he trapped me in the bedroom again, screaming abuse. He shook me, threw me on the bed, poked me hard in the chest telling me (Detail removed by moderator) I calmed him down, told him we would go out somewhere nice. I managed to get downstairs, got dressed and got out of the house. He chased me down the path, I got to the car and locked myself in. He was crying, pleading with me to come back inside. I thought he might hurt me so I said no, I drove to the policr station and made a statement. I told them he was vulnerable and might kill himself, they said they system would take care of him.
He was arrested, questioned and released on bail. They took him to hospital for assessment and they let him out. He then killed himself.
That was (Detail removed by moderator) ago and I’m going crazy with guilt and grief. He wasn’t a bad man, he was ill and needed treatment. I wish I’d gone into the house with him…but would he have killed me? That morning when I left he’d said he wanted to (Detail removed by moderator) Had he meant it? Should I have done what I did? I’m tortured by these questions.
15th May 2018 at 7:42 pm #58449
Because he was at other times gentle and loving , I miss him terribly and can’t quite accept I’ll never see him again. He seemed genuine in his love for me, how could that have been an act? But how could he treat me like that if he loved me? I’m so confused and feel like I’m falling apart.
15th May 2018 at 10:47 pm #58459
A real human being (man) does not behave this way. The “taking back power” is a red flag. When done in a viloent manner that he is also trying to justify by stating he is trying to save the relationship. That kind of thinking is scary. He threw you across the room on the couch into the television cart. So ask yourself this, just how far will he go to save the relationship, throwing you off a cliff next time, holding you under water in the tub til the bubbles stop?
The threatning you with I will show you what abuse is, is scary and creepy. And the isolation and sleep deprivation are classic abuser tactics to were you down for their control.
Poodlepower when I respond on here I do so reading a paragraph at a time then writing a response. I am very thankful that I just gave you the responses I did above. It reaffirming for me exactly why I do this. And therefore the first thing I have to say is I”m glad your still alive and writing this and I’m glad I’m reading it. I have personal and professional experience in what you are going through.
So let’s get to the aftermath of this and you now. And I am very sorry for your loss.
(Detail removed by moderator) And just as I did in this instance for you above and that was my reaction given the transpirings, you were placed in a position of fear and it is our instinct to survive. You were being violently abused and it was increasing. There is nothing anyone can say to make you feel less guilt about him being goes. Would he have taken you with him? With the facts and the descriptions present to work with here. Yes, I believe he would have. And I believe that by him stating it to you that morning that he was telling you that. Yes, you did the right thing. I firmly believe based on what is here that you would not be here if you had gone back through that door.
In response to your second post. You have two elements you are dealing with. The first is that you were abused. And part of what you are feeling is that control attachment. Research Trauma Bonding. The second is your going through a situation additionally of loss and involving another trauma situation and dealing with a different form of grief then just getting out of an abusive relationship. There are really great, strong women on here. It is a great place and I think you will flourish getting some of what you need here. I would also suggest you look into attending a grief course. They can help you deal with the loss. As far as did he love me/how could he love me if he treated me like that? That part is abuse feelings. That part is a verybphilosphical question especially in terms of the two elements at hand here, abuse and suicide. So I will answer it taking both into account and separate as well. With a suicide, yes, someone can genuinely love you, that is in their mind a part of the desire to take you withbthem. In an abuse situation, a first time abuser, one based on doing it for power and conteol. No, there is no love in that. An abuser that has previously been a victim of abuse, yes they can feel and love. I nor anyone else can tell you exactly what he was thinking or felt, that is in his mind. In time, as your mind heals you will have a clearer picture of what your really feeling and it will come to you how he felt and if it was real. Your dealing with a lot. The confusion, is part of the control and trauma. Your not falling apart, your just going through something very difficult.
Here for you when you need to talk. Hugs.
15th May 2018 at 11:01 pm #58461
Thank you xx
He appeared terrified to be without me, that’s what I put the extreme control down to…but I don’t understand why he couldn’t work with me to solve our problems ? That would have kept us together. Instead he became violent, physically held me down , trapped me in rooms to stop me leaving.
He would talk about us being “energy” together when we died and travelling the universe, entwined. Yes, I think he could very well have killed me and then himself if I hadn’t got away.
16th May 2018 at 12:07 am #58465
Your Welcome Poodlepower.
I received that feeling as well, based on your writing. He may have been. I believe that you mentioned he had been sexually abused. (Detail removed by moderator)
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Regardless, you need a reasonably well person with a reasonably level head to have healthy communications and a healthy relationship.(detail removed by Moderator)
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All spiritual aspects and those of energy aside, because I believe there is basis in that ktherwise. Given the transpirings, behaviors, and apparent mental process of this man, that takes a very scary form. And I believe it was just another red flag being put up as to what would have actually transpired had you gone back through that door.
(detail removed by Moderator) Was it love? You will be able to receive that answer in time as you heal. It will come to you.
The road is long, but your doing great. I will be here for you when you need to talk. Hugs.
16th May 2018 at 12:20 am #58466
He would threaten suicide often, usually in response to me not behaving as he wished me to , but had (apparently) made serious sucide attempts in the past. He spoke often of suicide, almost as if it was inevitable. He would cry, telling me people like him typically died at his age as they couldn’t forget their abuse. He cried that he wanted a future with me but felt his death was imminent. I tried many times to get him to go to hospital , I went to
The docs on his behalf ( he refused to go with me) asking them to take him to hospital. He needed intensive treatment but was determined he wouldn’t go to hospital. When he was assessed after his arrest he spoke to the mental health team st length and convinced them he wouldn’t try to take his own life. They let him out and he took the 1st opportunity to kill himself.
I’m tortured with the thoughts of him dying alone and in torment.
16th May 2018 at 12:46 am #58467
I tried so hard for so long to prop up his mental illness, but I just wasn’t equipped to handle it…on top of the violence , control and verbal abuse he wasn’t working and lied to me that he was in the process of claiming benefits ( which he would hsve been entitled to, he really wasn’t well enough to work) I don’t earn much and we were in terrible financial distress. He world steal money from my purse , money I put aside for travel to work or food. I had to ring him throughout the day from
Work so he could hear my voice and not feel so alone. I tried to get him to leave the house, maybe do some voluntary work , just to meet people. He went to MIND a couple of times but didn’t like it. All he wanted was me…he tried to hide himself away in my house and keep me in there with him and I just couldn’t live like that, I have a daughter, mum and dad, friends and a job. I wanted a life…He would scream that I was putting other things before him, even if I tried to spend half an hour washing pots . The house became filthy and unliveable but I had to stay on the couch cuddling him when I got home from work and the same again at weekends.
We did go places together , but had no money for the things he wanted to do, like attend music gigs. We could only go for country walks and the like…he enjoyed it sometimes, but would often shout at me that I was a “boring old woman” who never had any fun. He would make me drive him to supermarkets and sit in the car while he shopped, saying I “made him flustered” I later found out he was buying whisky and gin while I wasn’t looking and drinking it in private.
He was very ill and getting worse…If he’d stayed in hospital after his arrest id be visiting him by now, listening to details of his treatment, maybe even making plans for his homecoming. It didn’t have to be like this at all.
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16th May 2018 at 3:30 am #58468
People threaten or talk about suicide for many different reasons. The doing it at the point of which you were not doing what he wanted is normally associated with abuse and control. (detail removed by moderator)
You were doing all the right things and everything you could to help him.
I can understand your torment.
Being a caretaker is an enormous undertaking and very draining, everyone handles it differently, and some can not at all. When the element of violence is placed into it, that exponentially changes things, placing you in a position of not only fighting for their life and care, but yours as well.
You are a good person for doing the things you were doing for him to show him love and bring him comfort. (detail removed by moderator)
The key to this is, yes, he was ill and getting worse. Yes, it could have been different. But you ultimately had no control over his choice and action. And you will find that “IF” is the single most powerful word in suicides. You will always think of your life, dreams, and how it coukd have been in the future, you loved him and he became a part of you and your life and always will be. But if you keep asking yourself what if…..you will find the rest of your life being unlived and in darkness. As the what if’s….is endless possibilities.
Good. Your very strong. Doing something productive and on behalf of him may be part of what was meant by all this. The deeds of those that do us harm can alter our ability to live life as we were meant to. And some can become a product of that abuse/harm.
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If you are religously inclined Psalm has a lot of inspiration in relation to grief and pain.
And I will be here when you need to talk. Hugs.
16th May 2018 at 9:27 am #58485
Thank you.. it helps writing it all down and reading your replies x
Sometimes I try to see his choice as euthanasia…he was in terrible mental pain every day, would act out the abuse he suffered, have terrible dreams…I try to see it as a release from pain in the same way a sufferer of a terminal illness might choose to end their life. He would often tell me that if a person wants to die then it’s their choice and nobody should stop them. I didn’t agree with that at all-to me, life is precious, every second we have of it. But then again, I had never suffered the way he had. He saw successful suicides as brave and seemed to admire their choice.
Looking back, I think he would always have got to the point where he took his own life. He had everything he said he’d always wanted when we were together, yet still he began to unravel. Perhaps his mental agony was just too extreme for him to live. No matter what was going on outside, inside he was broken. I think he felt unfixable.
Another thought that crosses my mind is, did he do it as a final control over me? When in a temper he would tell me that I was going to cause his suicide and everyone would know it was my fault. His death will haunt me forever and make it very hard for me to move on from the relationship. But he left no note. I don’t really want to believe he hated me that much at the end.
He wanted to create a “happy little bubble” for us both. I’m so sorry I couldn’t live in that bubble with him. I loved it there, but I needed a life outside it too.
He even hated the joy I got from my job ( one of his few friends has contacted me and this is one of the things he told me) and couldn’t stand the idea that I quite enjoyed time away from him while he couldn’t stand to be separated from me. It was like raising a child all over again, but with no hope of them growing up and gradually giving me space.
I’m redecorating my whole house- luckily I live just around the corner from my parents so I’m staying with them. It’s hard going back , his things are still out, his clothes smell of him..I’m putting everything in boxes , out of sight but still there.
I’m trying so hard to look to the future. I have some amazing friends who I haven’t seen much of for a couple of years. They’ve scooped me up and taken me places, let me talk endlessly about him. I’m very very lucky.
If anyone has any tips on how to repair myself, I’d be very grateful.
Thank you for reading x
16th May 2018 at 2:13 pm #58487LisaMain Moderator
I just want to show you some support. You are doing amazingly and I can only imagine what a difficult time this must be for you. Please look after yourself and be kind to yourself. You were not to blame for his behaviour and you are not to blame for his death. These actions were his choice and his alone. His behaviour sounds incredibly stiffening and claustrophobic, as well as abusive and controlling and you may well be right that his suicide was his final act of power and control over you. Sadly the truth is that you will never know why he choose to kill himself in the end and perhaps some counselling will help you to process your emotions. I think that your GP should be able to help refer you to some appropriate grief counselling and your local Women’s Aid group should be able to help you too. Please also know that if you want to talk you can contact the helpline at any time.
16th May 2018 at 2:55 pm #58488
Your Welcome. I am glad that it is helping you, that is why I am writing 😊
In many instances I think it is a euthanasia as well for suicides. The fact that you filled everything he ever wanted, let that bring you some peace knowing that. What kept him unraveled, was the demons he was dealt from his abuse. You were a light in his darkness.
I don’t believe he did it as control (I completely disagree with Lisa on that) an abuser likes relishing in their control and seeing it for one predominent factor, but another dominatong factor is that most suicides are to (Detail removed by moderator) The negative statements he made, I believe stemmed from pain and anger from the abuse. And as you said he himself stated, suicide is a choice.
Instead of allowing it to haunt you, as that will position you to follow a negative path ( much like he did with his abuse) embrace the happy times, the meaning he brought to your life, who he was as a person, and the live you had for eacother. The positive aspects of this can live on with you and a part of him will always be with you but you can make that a good thing that brings about some peace with it in time. While honoring his life, memory, and what you shared together.
Don’t blame yourself for wanting to live while he was dying. It is a fight to survive and why you are still here. Redecorating is good. In putting his things in boxes, don’t get rid of anything with special meaning, you will regret it later if you do. And if with death, we can have moments of anger.
It is really good that you have friends that are getting you out places and listening endlessly. It sounds like you have some good friends.
I think you are doing amazingly well at repair. Embrace the memory of his life and the love you had together. And keep reasonably busy.
I am going to respond to your other post under the general category in a bit.
Always here when you need to talk. Hugs.
16th May 2018 at 3:10 pm #58490
Apologies, your post under, Is it Abuse. And I did respond in brief.
16th May 2018 at 5:54 pm #58494
Thank you Chickadee & Lisa
I don’t know if it’s health for me to go over and over things in my mind, things that I’ll never really have an answer to? I guess the most positive thing about thinking it through a lot is that the conclusion I always arrive is I had no choice but to do what I did. This does help alleviate some of my guilt. I tried many, many times to get him to discuss and amend his extreme need to control me but it got me nowhere. I also said each time he was violent that it was the last time I would tolerate it , what he was doing was criminal and if it happened again I would end the relationship. His refusal to even see his actions as abusive told me that he wouldn’t work with me to fix it and that meant I had to live in fear, or leave. No choice at all really.
I went back to him once on the understanding we seek counselling together to confront his violence. He quickly reneged on this, told me that he “wasn’t going to let me put all the blame on him.” I came to realise he would not, or could not, change. Impossible for me to stay. And yet I carried on trying…my last actions were to keep us both safe and get him into hospital. Once again, he wouldn’t comply. The police told me that he denied all charges. I had bruises from where he’d thrown me into a door frame. He claimed they happened when he was “fending me off.” The bite he claimed was a kiss that I mistook for a bite due to his moustache. Neighbours later told me the police had visited them and they had given statements , detailing the “vile” verbal abuse he had subjected me to over months. Also 3 people had rung in to report seeing me being dragged by him through our village, chased to the car and so on. If they put all that to him, he may have felt he was about to be revealed as an abuser. As a victim of abuse as a child he always saw himself in those terms. To be shown to be an abuser would have been intolerable to him as he loathed people like that. And yet that’s what he did to me.
As I say, I’ll never know. All I know is I loved him and choose to see his abuse of me as symptoms of his mental illness and that Illness eventually drove him to take his own life.
He was an amazing man in so many ways. I wish he’d understood how wonderful he really was and accepted some help.
16th May 2018 at 7:09 pm #58497
Going over the event and coming to the same conclusion each time, is your answer.
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I believe in this circumstance his abusive actions stemmed from a severly abusive childhood. He understandably loathed that type of person, but also probably saw himself that way and loathed himself, and from that pain took his life. The outward non-admittance is an abuser trait. But that is what would have bern needed for him to get help turning it around.
Sometimes we don’t see our good qualities, it is easier to accept and see the bad, especially for someone in abuse. I’m sure he is glad that you saw them in him.
This situation poses unique issues, but has also opened you up to abusive traits. Please do self care by getting involved in learning the signs of abuse and control to protect yourself in the future.
Reading the posts on here between people, will help, there are a lot of good women on here. Maybe see if you can attend a local abuse class in your area.
Here when you need to talk. Hugs.
16th May 2018 at 11:29 pm #58509
This is so much more complicated than my situation was, but there are elements which are so similar too. My abuser was also abused as a child and had serious mental health issues stemming from that. Like yours he refused to seek help, and as his abuse of me continued to escalate I eventually had to leave. However, as far as I know my abuser was fine after I left and we have now been no contact for long enough that I have managed to straighten things up in my mind.
I don’t think mental illness causes abuse. I have too many mentally ill friends who are kind and gentle and caring to believe that. But some mentally ill people are also abusive. I think for my abuser, he felt out of control and it was easier to feel better by controlling me than by dealing with why his life felt under control. I think his history of abuse also meant that he knew exactly how to use the abusive toolkit. It is a tragic choice made by someone who was hurting. But after I realised that was the choice he had made (and it is a choice, you can’t abuse people accidentally) I had to leave. Your situation was the same. You couldn’t have stayed.
Additionally you can’t be someone’s sole support network even if you are emotionally strong. (Believe me as another woman who has been there trying to do that). And if they are abusive then not only is it impossible to be someone’s support network, it is also dangerous to you. The violence that your abuser subjected you to suggests that he might have ended up killing you. There was no option for you but to leave, and you owed this man nothing when you went. And yet you did everything you could to try and make sure he had support once you were gone. You are in no way to blame for what happened.
I hope that you find peace and closure somehow, because you are clearly a good woman.
16th May 2018 at 11:50 pm #58510
Thank you Tiffany
It’s hard to know how much of his behaviour he was in control of…perhaps I’m in denial about how much damage he intended to do me? I do remember that at the beginning his 1st signs of abuse was sleep deprivation. He would explain this as him being afraid to be alone and needing my support, and this made me try my very best to stay awake for him…But I was up at 7am for with every day and needed to rest! I would beg to be allowed to sleep sometimes, cry, try to leave the room…I even thought about sleeping in the car. Was he really in that much need of my company that he couldn’t allow me sleep? He’d lived alone for 2 years before I met him, so it was possible…Perhaps, even now, I’m making excuses for him because to accept he really didn’t care about my health and wellbeing at all is just too painful.
17th May 2018 at 2:44 am #58512
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Sleep Deprivation is done by an abuser to maintain control, wear down the mind. Abusers thenselves go with very little sleep.
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17th May 2018 at 9:28 am #58518
He worked from home ( detail removed by moderator), but wasn’t working at all during our last few months together) so was able to sleep all day while I was at work and keep me up all night. Holidays were tough as he still wanted to spend all day in bed whereas I wanted to get up. I tried sneaking up when he was in a deep sleep in the afternoon but he caught me and flew into a screaming rage, yelling that I had “taken advantage” of his sleep to “ditch” him. I hadn’t even left the house, I was downstairs cleaning the cat litter box!
I’m torn on the question of how much was calculated, how much was he just unable to see as abuse? The fact that he lied/misrepresented incidents make me think he DID know but thought it justified in some way. I remember once, he’d had me pinned down for some considerable time and I was becoming hysterical. He had me lying on the bed, I was sobbing..he sort of ” strummed” his fingers across my lips so my cries became distorted, like he was mocking me. There was no way he could fail to see I was in extreme distress.
In a calmer moment later, I asked him why he’d done that? He said “to help you breathe.” That makes no sense at all. It felt like when I was in distress , caused by him, he was unable to view me with empathy. On those occasions I felt like he enjoyed seeing me like that, helpless and suffering. Perhaps he was “taking back power” from the men who had abused him by being the one in control? Except the victim was me.
17th May 2018 at 9:29 pm #58550
My abuser would absolutely not admit to himself that he was abusive towards me. I think he thought so long as he wasn’t as bad as his abuser it didn’t count. But the lies and manipulation that he used couldn’t possibly have been accidental.
As someone who has suffered from extreme anxiety and suicidal ideation etc, I can understand him having nights when he absolutely needed someone with him. I have had those nights. However, they always leave me feel guilty and worried about how the other person is coping without sleep, and I have never kept anyone up more than a single night, and seldom go beyond a couple of hours after bed time. After that I will call Samaritans so that no one else has to stay up with me. If this happened to me more often than the sporadic intervals it does – there have only been a couple of incidences this year, then I would feel that the only solution was to get professional help. Actually after the last incident I got myself immediately referred for counselling. I cannot imagine expecting anyone to deal with that long term. It would be hell.
I wonder if your abuser, like mine, felt that the universe “owed him” in some way, and if that is how he could justify treating you that way. My abuser definitely felt that life had mistreated him, and seemed to be trying to redress this balance in his abuse of me. He felt he deserved a better family, and used abusive tricks to convince me that he was closer with my family than I was. He felt that he should have more money, so he took mine. He felt that he should have a better job, and as he couldn’t take mine, he tried to convince me that I was incompetent and didn’t deserve my job, while he was hard done by at work and deserved so much better. And he deserved control of all aspects of his life, and as he hadn’t got that he controlled all aspects of my life instead.
I could be miles off with this of course, but it explains my abuser. And I found reading about people’s relationships with similar men helpful, so I hope some of this might help you.
Once again, nothing that happened after you left was your fault. You took a very difficult step to protect yourself, and you hoped to help him.
17th May 2018 at 10:06 pm #58552AyannaParticipant
You do not have any responsibility for his choice to end his life.
He was for sure a very sick person.
Maybe he was hallucinating at times.
Many women are badly abused as children and teenagers and they do not go on to abuse others, on the contrary, many try their hardest to break the cycle.
And there are also men who try to break the cycle.
There was more to this.
He was an abuser and used his past to control you, to gaslight and guilt trip you.
On the other hand was he unable to deal with his pain and before killing another person he directed all his aggressions against himself.
Had you been present at that time he might have directed his aggressions against you and he might have killed you instead.
You were in great danger whilst you were with him.
I hope you receive the help you deserve to deal with this trauma.
17th May 2018 at 10:50 pm #58557
Being angered because you leave for a moment to clean the litter box, is control, (Detail removed by moderator). Coping with sleep deprivation or sleep variences when life brings them our way due to abuse or stressors is hard and I’m sorry you had to go through that.
“I’m torn on the question of how much was calculated, how much was he just unable to see as abuse.” The best answer I can provide to this is that due to the apparent severity of his previous abuse, that he learned control. Did he know it was abuse? Only someone being able to spend time with him and study and talk to him could provide that answer. It may have been a norm for him. And even though you stated he loathed abusive people he may or may not have seen those things in himself, could have seen some and not others. (Detail removed by moderator) There are various angles and elements to this aspect and quite possibly a combination of answers like what I have offered. What is pretty evident is that he was attached/clingy to you. (Detail removed by moderator) You showed him comfort, care, and love in the right ways. (Detail removed by moderator)
The fact that he lied, justified, misrepresented things, denied, are traits of an abuser. There may well be things he knew to cover (Detail removed by moderator). Either way, due to the severe abuse he experienced he has some abuser traits.
How you describe him interacting with you when he holds you down in this incident is particularly disturbing. Running the fingers over your mouth to quiet a victim is usually to silence them so the wrongdoer is not caught or because the victim’s crying/sobbing is distressing the wrongdoer. No, telling you he was putting his fingers across your mouth for you to breathe does not make sense in the norm. (Detail removed by moderator) What is so disturbing about this particular incident is that it provides a clear presense of abnormal thinking in relation to violence (Detail removed by moderator) His mind was snapping and this moment could very well have been a pre-curser of what came about as the end result. He was not safe. And it lends way to the probability he would have taken you with him.
What you posed as your end conclusion is interesting, because as I read through this and got towards the end it was already my conclusion as well before getting to and reading yours.
(Detail removed by moderator)
I get the twists your mind is going through, part is the control/abuse, the justifications and lies, the incidents themselves, the other part is searching for the answers, and understanding it all. Going through it is something many of us have do to. But please remember to take care of you.
Here for you when you need to talk. Hugs!
17th May 2018 at 11:51 pm #58564
Thank you Tiffany Auanna and Chickadee, it’s really helpful to hear from you all and does help me process.
The lip strumming thing…I got the feeling he wanted to mock and humiliate me at the time and “helping me breathe” was the best he could come up with that sounded even vaguely “caring.” He could be quite cruel…well, more that he felt nothing for me at the time this was happening. I felt like a plaything.
He was once shaking me by the shoulders in a doorway and the back of my head connected with the door. I began to cry, and for a second his eyes widened in horror, he looked mortified. For a second. Then his eyes clouded over again and he shouted at me for “making a fuss.” It really was as if he was 2 people and they were both battling for control within him.
I found a note in the house after his death. It said “please don’t leave me. I’m not a bad man. I would never harm you. I’m frightened.” But he HAD harmed me. Was he unable to control his “bad” side? Was this emotional manipulation? Was he battling with inner hate that he felt for his abusers that became directed at me?
All are possible. But what is definite is that he was a danger to me.
The emotional manipulation thing though…he really hated anyone who failed to show him sympathy. He hated feminists with a passion-some had been rude to his on a forum and mocked him for being a rape victim ( according to him. I always found this hard to believe) My take is that he hated feminists as he saw them as women who wouldn’t offer him endless sympathy for his terrible upbringing. I think he saw his abuse as some kind of “pass” card to behave as he wished-gave him a sense of entitlement. We could be having a disagreement about something , then out of the blue he’d start screaming about my “privilidged” upbringing or yelling “I was raped!!!” as if that would put him permanently “in the right”
On one occasion , we were disagreeing over something when he suddenly flew into a rage, rolled me on my stomach and used my own hand to punch me repeatedly on my bottom, screaming that “this is wha it’s like to be raped!” He then used my own hand to try and gouge his own eye out and ckaw at his face. He did indeed seem to have a sense of “entitlement” as if his abuse meant he deserved to be always “right” and never disagreed with. He hated anyone who had had more opportunities than him and was full of resentment and hate.
18th May 2018 at 1:17 am #58566
Your Welcome. It is evident in your writing your making progress. 😊 I’m glad to hear we are helping with that.
“I felt like a plaything.” “Was he battling with inner hate that was directed at his abusers and became directed at me.”
You were dealing with a man that had probably gone through years of sexual abuse by multiple assailants, as well as other abuses that stem from that. He desperately needed help that he never received to address various issues. And in that, needed the care of other persons in that help, besides just yourself caring for him. Yes, it is most likely that with not receiving the proper help, that he was taking out what he went through with you.
It is quite possible that all the anger he had towards his abusers was what came out towards others that he viewed as unsympathetic. (Detail removed by Moderator)
The resentment you mentioned towards other people’s accomplishments/opportunities, you said he stated he died at 3. Puts a whole new perspective on that, doesn’t it! He was watching the lives he knew he would never have, did not have the opportunity for, and so deeply wanted a chance at.
And your right it is completely logical with all you have described, that as a result of what he went through,(Detail removed by moderator). It crossed my mind a few of your writings back.
Here when you need to talk. Hugs!
18th May 2018 at 9:19 am #58571
Your abuser sounds so similar to mine. Whenever I was struggling and needed sympathy he would tell me that “I didn’t know what suffering was like” – even though I was generally suffering because he was abusing me. The “trump card” thing is really familiar too. My abuser was part of a minority ethnic group and felt discriminated against because of that. So if we had an argument in which he couldn’t prove that I was in the wrong he would just yell at me that I was a racist. There is no arguing with that.
He also hated feminists and refused to believe that as a disabled woman that I could also experience discrimination. It was something that could only happen to him.
I can also relate to the need for endless sympathy. At the extreme end he honestly felt that my disability caused him more pain and upset than it did me. But I think it was this that stopped him seeking help. He liked people to be understanding of him and to make allowances because of his past. I don’t imagine many doctors would have done that – told him it was ok to go into screaming rages at his partner because he had had a difficult life. He didn’t want to have a problem with a solution, because then he wouldn’t be able to continue to act out. It’s really sad, and obviously stems from the abuse he experienced. He clearly needed help. But I tried for years to give it to him and in return experienced escalating levels of abuse. It started with mild gaslighting to make him look etter. It ended up with physical violence.
For all that, I don’t think he was a “bad man”. But he chose to abuse me rather than seek help, and once he made that choice I had to leave to protect myself.
I also had a similar experience to your “trying to breathe” thing. My partner had been emotionally abusive all evening. I was in floods of tears and huge amounts of pain from my disability which is made worse by stress. He told me to close my eyes and breathe deeply to calm down, then when my eyes were shut he slapped me hard. He told me he did it to “shock me” so I would stop crying. It obviously made things much worse, but at the time I couldn’t believe he might have done it on purpose. It’s only in hindsight, looking at all the other stuff, that I realise he probably enjoyed the power of it.
18th May 2018 at 9:36 am #58574
I know he was in pain and I tried so many times to help. Before we were together he had left a (Detail removed by moderator) year relationship which he described as abusive on her part. He told me she caused him
“Stockholm syndrome, kept him prisoner, he had to slap her once as she was strangling him etc. Knowing what I do about him, I can’t believe he would be the passive victim of DV on this way, but I’ll never know the truth on that.
Anyway, after separating from her, he found himself a place to live, got a “proper” job as a (Detail removed by moderator) for (Detail removed by moderator) and began regular counselling. He was in pretty good shape when I met him, although clearly masking his illness to an extent. So I knew he had the reserves to sort himself out if he tried. But it was as if when he started a relationship with me, he viewed me as his “saviour” and could give up on all his self help. He gave up counselling, very quickly gave up his job with (Detail removed by moderator), relying on sporadic commission work which eventually dwindled to nothing. I took him to meet my friends , hoping to fully intergrste him in my life, but he said my best friends husband was “flirting” with me in front of us all and even asked if I’d ever slept with him! Gradually we became more isolated.
He wouldn’t allow me into the biggest bedroom, my daughters old room, and refused to allow her into the house. I told him I was upset that I couldn’t go freely into rooms in my own home anymore and that his secrecy bothered me. His response was “If you call me secretive again, I’ll throw myself out of the window.”
He controlled all food shopping and dictated what I ate and when. When I arrived home from work he would expect me to sit on the couch and be “waited” on, although food and drink would be provided when he decided I could have it. He made me endless cups of tea, which I managed to tip away sometimes when he wasn’t looking. I was allowed a nightly visit to my parents for a shower as we had no hot water but would get guilt inducing texts if I was longer than the allotted time. He didn’t drive but demanded I take him places- usually supermarkets, when I would have to wait in thr car while he shopped.
He controlled what we watched on TV but would tell me I always got my way. He said he no longer listened to music as I didn’t like it…that was odd as he was alone in the house all day while I was at work so how could I stop him listening to music?? It was almost as if he was trying to cast me in the role of “abuser” sometimes as he would always see himself as the “victim” in any scenario.
Under these circumstances- which he himself had orchestrated- he began to unravel mentally. He retreated into my house, made it unliveable with accumulated filth, and wanted to keep me in there with him, almost like I was a stress doll.
I wish I could have done more for him…I did try to be firm at the beginning but I capitulated until he was in control. Any rebellion from me was met with violence, verbal and physical.
I just didn’t have the skills to help make him well and he refused many times to seek help elsewhere. He would talk a lot about his rapes-I once said “maybe it would help if we went to the police and reported your dad?” He twisted this into me saying that “I would have been a better rape victim than him” which I never, ever would have said. He said he couldn’t report because it would destroy his sister’s lives and that the police would do nothing.
Since his death, I have made a report to the police about his abuse and the CHild Pritection Unit are now carrying out as incestigation. It’s the last thing I can do for my Love, and other victims of these vile inhuman men. I hope there is some justice for him, however late it is in coming.
18th May 2018 at 11:55 am #58578
Tiffany, i can relate so much to what you’re saying.
My partner seemed unable to see anything from anybody’s else’s point of view, although he made a great show of pretending to care. I don’t think he was able to truly emphasise with pain others felt. I can understand that as a child who was shown very little love and was betrayed by his supposed “care givers” his ability to care for others was limited-his could he know when he hadn’t been given a loving, stable background?
For example, when I was ill, his first thoughts were always “how will this affect me?” One weekend I had a crippling migraine and wanted to stay in bed with a wet towel over my eyes. He cajoled me for hours, standing at the bottom of the bed with his jacket on, asking me to drive him to a shop. I eventually gave in, but was in tears of pain as I drive. 5 mins into the drive he asked if I was in to drive? I said “clearly not, but I’m doing it because you care more about your own needs than my health.” He wrenched open the car door and jumped from the car. Luckily I was able to slam th breaks on so he wasn’t hurt. He walked away, I drove home and waited for him, reasoning that a walk would give him time to cool off.
He was 4 hours or so and furious that I haven’t picked him up. He was verbally massively abusive to the point where I had to run from the house and stay at my parents for the night.
He couldn’t face the truth about his own behaviour and when confronted with it would often react with violence, abuse and denials.
18th May 2018 at 6:04 pm #58591
I feel like you could almost be talking about my ex. Obviously they weren’t the same guy, but your posts really resonate with me too. I am sorry that your escape worked out less well than mine. None of what happened was your fault. My abuser used to tell me I was his saviour too, and that he couldn’t survive without me.
I think my escape worked partly because I was not his only victim. My ex was abusive towards his female family members too. So he didn’t lose all his semblance of control when he lost me.
It’s a terribly sad outcome either way to be honest. The poor women that my ex is still tormenting. Poor you dealing with the fall out from your ex’s death. And those poor broken men. But being abusive is not an inevitable outcome for those who are abused. I can’t imagine any of the wonderful ladies on this site abusing others. I can’t imagine doing it myself. The fact that your ex and mine were not willing to seek help and instead lashed out at us was ultimately their choice, and we could do nothing to change that.
18th May 2018 at 7:11 pm #58592maddogParticipant
Oh Poodlepower I am so sorry that you are going through this. You were a witness to his suicide, not the cause. You could not have done anything about it. I had a dear friend who died of alcohol. We hope for the best and anticipate the worst, but when the worst happens it is still a huge shock. You did all you could, and beyond.
He was abusing you too. He clocked a kind, sensitive woman and went for the jugular. Please get as much support as you can muster through this difficult time.
18th May 2018 at 7:52 pm #58594
Poodlepower and Tiffany.
Some abusers put you on a pedastool (my second one did) so that they have you in the happily ever after, love you more than anthing facade, so that when the take it away you fall all that much harder and they enjoy it all the more.
He already had the next victim in place, so he had his live like a king, someone to manipulate and control and smooch off of, his sex, all in place again, with all the twists, facades, and lies.
The first I was with rationed my food. I was not allowed to go grocery shopping by myself. I was fed like a bird. The items missing from my diet that he would not allow me he made sure he obtained by going out each day at work. When we went out of the house I was not allowed to sit in the front seat, I was only allowed to sit in the backseat. He would state it was for our daughter, to cover it up, but I did that while she was an infant for safety, he then continued using it for subservancy and control for (Detail removed by moderator) years. People that ignore abuse would make excuses, just use money and go to the store. You can tell the one’s that get it and the control. There is no money with some abusers they control it all and you do not have a penny. I did not have any to get groceries, diapers, formula, etc. unless he was with me and driving me there. I did not have money for gas to go. Even when I was allowed to take a class after much begging and pleading I constantly worried about gas, as he would put it in or give me so little money to that I was afraid of not making it back and running out of gas and being stuck on the freeway, sometimes late at night. I made a friend at college that got me to begin more realize the situation was not right. Encouraged me to hang around with them and others and see how I should be being treated and the differences. Told me to talk to my parents and any friends I had, to help me. When I left I weighed approximately eighty to ninety pounds in my mid to late (Detail removed by moderator) and was extremely malnourished and weak. I recall being taken out with several people for breakfeast and eating bacon and sausage from the buffet, I had fifteen pieces, he had not allowed me to eat meat or fish. They told me to have more, as much as I wanted, but on top of everything else I ate I couldn’t fit more. When my first abuser took me and my daughter to a restaurant it was always only a buffet, and my plate was made for me. It was so awesome just to make my own choices.
I will not be subjected to abuse by a man again. Though I said that after the first one. The second is, as he himself put it, even more of a nightmare. I’m your worst nightmare. He is. And for my kids.
18th May 2018 at 8:47 pm #58597
Thank you eveyone, your words help me enormously x
I went into town today, had to hold back the tears passing spots where we first met, had our 1st kiss, where he 1st told me he loved me…in spite of all the abuse, I miss him terribly and can hear in my mind the words “please come home, please come home…” over and over again.
Some well meaning people have said things like “I’ll come to yours and help you clear his things out of your house” “at least you can enjoy yourself now” abs so on. I just want to tell at them “I miss him! He was ill!” But I just smile weakly and let it go because they just don’t understand that there can be Love in a situation like this, well from me at least. We had a lot of lovely times together.
But the flip side is…if he felt the way I did, he’d have moved heaven and earth to make it work. All I was asking for was less control
and to be respected and treated with kindness and dignity. He wouldn’t change because he didn’t want to. And why would he want to? At the end he had a nice place to live, food, didn’t have to work , a chauffeur, companion and someone who would allow him to behave exactly as he wished. Why would he change? I don’t think he really believed i would leave him. I’d been trying over months to get him to look for somewhere else to live, but got nowhere. He would say “you’ll be crying for me next week” I told him I would be but we still had to separate as I couldn’t be with someone who thought it was ok to pin me down. His violence and aggression increased every time i tried to talk about us separating, there was no way he’d ever have let me go.
18th May 2018 at 11:40 pm #58606
“He wouldn’t change because he didn’t want to. And why would he want to?”
This was the exact realisation I had which triggered my leaving. As long as I was enabling his abusive behaviour he was never going to try and get better. I ended up doing a kind of “trial separation” where I moved out but we were still spending weekends together. I wouldn’t recommend it as a route now – I didn’t realise at the time that I was risking serious escalation. I just thought with a bit of distance, if he realised that I wasn’t going to stand for the bad behaviour anymore, that he would pull himself together and try and treat me better. Instead he became increasingly erratic and I think I probably only just got out in time. I am sure he thought he could manipulate me into returning right up until the end. I didn’t leave him any doubt when I left though. I wrote it down so he couldn’t twist it or change my mind. And then after I left I started to get flashbacks to the physical abuse which I had blocked out, so that helped me stay away too. I really hope my leaving was the shock to the system he needed to sort himself out. I doubt it was though. I don’t think I had that much of an impact on him honestly. I wanted to help so much. But it wasn’t enough to change anything. He treated me pretty badly from the start, and I put it down to poor role models and cultural differences. But as the years went by his behaviour worsened instead of improving. I told him exactly which behaviours I found upsetting, thinking that as a bright man he would learn and things would get better. He learned all right, but instead of getting better he learned to upset me more efficiently and effectively.
He told me if I left him he would never date again. I hope it is true.
19th May 2018 at 9:11 am #58609
Yes Tiffany, I was of a similar outlook – knowing things HAD to change and thinking surely he would work with me to keep us together?
The last thing I wanted was to have to get the police to get him out of my house and I tried over and over to get him to see either he change his behaviour or he move out. And yes, the firmer I got on this, the more violent and abusive he became. Was it a case of he couldn’t change or wouldn’t change? I don’t know, and actually as regards my safety it made no difference WHY he was abusing me, the fact that he WAS made staying impossible.
I gave him so many chances and sometimes he made a token effort but nothing really changed.
He would yell that I’d made a commitment so I HAD to stay, that he had a “right” to stay in my house but never “ok Love, let’s work on our problems together so we can be happy.” It was always force with him, domination and control.
20th May 2018 at 12:41 am #58634
They really do sound like almost the same man
Mine spent the last week’s of our relationship not working to improve things so I wouldn’t leave him, but trying everything in his arsenal of emotional abuse tactics to get me to promise I wouldn’t leave him. Because that was what would fix things. A promise from me to stay regardless of what he did. He wasn’t going to change and I am glad I got out when I did. I am glad that you got out when you did.
I am also so very sorry that your abuser took his life after you left. It is such an awful thing to deal with when you are connected in any way with suicide. But you know that you did all in your power to help and to ensure that he had the support he needed. That he chose to turn away from that is not your fault. You couldn’t have done more.
20th May 2018 at 12:46 am #58635
And you are quite right. I also reached the point where the WHY became irrelevant. The fact that he WAS abusing me meant I couldn’t stay. And honestly, didn’t want to stay. It’s taken me a long while to realise that. But he hurt me over and over and made me wildly unhappy and I didn’t want my life to be like that. And that is ok. It is more than ok. I actually deserve to be happy. I spent so much time trying to make my abuser happy that I had almost forgotten that. I am relearning it now.
20th May 2018 at 8:38 pm #58662
Thank you Tiffany x
21st May 2018 at 9:40 pm #58712
Just found out he left a 3 page suicide note, and it’s completely thrown me.
Apparently the transport police have it. It’s not addressed to anyone so it’s not for me…I’m scared of what it says.if it’s loving towards me I’ll feel terrible, if it’s full of hate towards me, I’ll feel terrible. I just hope it had details of the sexual abuse he suffered and will help the police investigation.
21st May 2018 at 11:56 pm #58715
I would say that this is one of the few situations where the principle of no contact still applies to you. Whatever he wrote will have the power to trigger and hurt you, whether or not it was designed to hurt you. You don’t need to know what that was written. It won’t change anything. You left because you had to. You tried to make sure he had support in place. Sadly he didn’t or couldn’t access that support and committed suicide. I know that sometimes suicide notes can be meant to provide comfort to loved ones, but as he was you abuser it isn’t going to be the case for you even if he meant it that way.
I don’t know if you are likely to end up being able to read it, but I would suggest that even if you could, that it would be best not to read it.
22nd May 2018 at 1:35 am #58719
Thank you Tiffany. I think you’re right. He loved and hated me to extremes and reading his expression of either would cause me a lot of grief.
29th May 2018 at 3:56 pm #58989SunshineRainflowerParticipant
I read your post a while ago but couldn’t answer at the time. I just wanted to say I’m so, so sorry to hear all of what you went through. This is a massive trauma, and will have a profound effect on you, so access all the help you can and just keep going, you will get through it and in the end feel peace.
It sounds like your ex was extremely troubled. It is extremely tragic what he went through, an absolutely horrific thing by all accounts, but it wasn’t your responsibility to heal his pain although of course as his loving partner you wanted to help him very much. To overcome his childhood traumas he would have needed to engage with at least one type of therapy, probably over several years, and do lots of inner work, as well as possibly get help for any related mental health problems like PTSD. It sounds like it consumed him from within, but that also, he had a very controlling obsessive personality type, because a lot of people go through childhood trauma but don’t abuse others, they engage with help and work on maintaining healthy relationships. I feel for him from what you have written, because absolutely no child should ever experience what it sounds like he experienced, but as an adult he had the responsbility of finding help for it, and working through his own healing and recovery path, rather than channeling his trauma, anger and pain into abusing you.
You sound like an incredibly compassionate, forgiving, caring and understanding person. I haven’t fully read all of the later posts on the thread so I’m not sure if you are seeking out therapy yet but I definitely think it would help a lot, because there is a lot of things to process here. I think a good counsellor who understands trauma, domestic abuse and bereavement would be very helpful for you, just make sure you ‘interview’ them first as some therapists can make us feel worse due to their own lack of understanding of certain things (I had this experience, so had to try out several therapists, but seem to have found an organisation with good therapists now who are helping me).
Keep posting for support, keep sharing, you are bound to have a lot of emotions and thoughts associated with grief, bereavement, shock, trauma and PTSD after this. The good thing is none of these things are unsurmountable and you can and will heal, just keep going through the ups and downs and you will come out the other side.
I also just wanted to add, you are not responsible for his death. It sounds like a terrible chain of events starting from his childhood right through to him abusing you and not getting or engaging with the right help, plus maybe even wanting to ‘punish you’ as his final act (although this we will never know) lead to his decision, and like the others have said, I fear that if given the chance, he may have tried to bring you with him, such was his level of thinking by the end. Please see the fact that you are here as a gift, you have a chance now, an opportunity so take it, you fully deserve it. My experience was much less dramatic than yours, but my ex joked about killing me and had started to threaten me and become violent, and was also obsessive, controlling and very psychologically abusive, and for a long time afterwards what kept me going was realising that he might have killed me, but that he didn’t, I got away and have a chance at life again. I remind myself of that every now and again, because so many poor women don’t make it out alive once involved with one of these men. I like the idea of doing things now to raise awareness, and help other women, and other positive things to help the world as well as working on my goals with a renewed sense of purpose, as a way of making the most out of my opportunity of still being here, although for the first 6 months I just focused on surviving as I was not in a good place mentally, and had to just get through each day but in time things have started to improve.
Hopefully I’ve not spoken out of turn here as it’s such a sensitive topic, and that this helps.
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