Is he gaslighting me?!

[GoingInsane]

Hi, I really don’t know what to do. When I met my husband I already owned my house. He has never contributed towards my house and has never helped me with any maintenance as it’s ‘not his house’. I am now in the process of selling my house and using the proceeds to buy a joint property. Except I’m now having second thoughts. It was (Detail removed by Moderator) a couple of days ago so we went out for dinner. Everything was fine until the bill arrived. He asked if we were splitting the bill then quickly followed this up by saying he couldn’t afford to buy the dinner and get me a present. Fair enough in itself, but this is someone who earns £(Detail removed by Moderator) a year and in the last month has spent easily £(Detail removed by Moderator) on items for himself. I pointed this out, along with the fact I am spending money on surveys, etc. for the new house that I might not get back if the sale falls through. His response? That it’s my house! I pointed out that the new house is joint. It’s not like he hasn’t been party to the entire process! He viewed with me, agreed on the property to buy, applied for the mortgage jointly, everything. What did happen was that I also had a Decision In Principle in my own name and had a very long conversation with him about joint ownership before I proceeded with the property being joint. I also got legal advice and had a Deed of Trust drawn up. Although the new property was going into joint names I was paying for it the same as I do now. He had agreed to pay for other joint outgoings as part of his contribution but has since said he can’t afford to do this whilst looking into buying a (Detail removed by Moderator) car! So I asked him why it is that I am always paying for everything that is joint while he spends his money on himself. That made him angry, he turned it on me that I twist things to suit myself and that I’d made it clear the new house would be mine and now I’m spinning it that it’s joint (so he provided all his bank statements and pay slips for what purpose exactly?! He’s even seen the joint mortgage offer!) he then accused me of always having to ruin everything. At that point I decided I’d had enough and I left. I booked a hotel and I didn’t go home. He did text asking if I was going to get home ok, which I clearly didn’t and I didn’t respond. That was (Detail removed by Moderator) days ago. I haven’t made contact with him since and he certainly isn’t stressing about my welfare as he hasn’t once tried to contact me. It’s not the first time this has happened. (Detail removed by Moderator) I walked out on him at (Detail removed by Moderator) after he’d spent the entire day giving me the cold shoulder for no reason (the night before we’d been chatting away quite happily). He came back the next day and moved all his stuff out. I didn’t stop him. Needless to say it was all for effect. I followed through with being separated, he suggested seeing how we got on. Now he says he was the one who left and it was over for him. Well he had that chance and asked me to give things a go, which I did. Until now his silent treatment and eye rolling had stopped after (Detail removed by Moderator) episode when I left. However, during the period (Detail removed by Moderator) when we separated, I had to buy a new car. He said if we got back together he’d pay towards it. I laughed at the time and said I’d heard that before, how he’s always saying he will pay towards joint things then lumbers me with the bill. Needless to say, he never paid towards the car and now claimed that conversation never took place. Does he actually know what he’s doing or does he just forget or not understand things?! I’m at a loss as to what to do now. I have contacted my mortgage company and solicitor to make sure the new house goes into my own name now and is not joint but where I go from here I don’t know. I spent yesterday in bed I was so exhausted by everything.

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[KIP.]

Yes he is absolutely gas lighting you. He knows exactly what he is doing. He has found someone to financially abuse. Has done it in the past and will continue to do so in the future. Please do not enter into any legally binding financial arrangements without proper legal advice. Make sure you are legally protected and know your rights. I started a thread about pathalogical liars and he sounds like one. To agree to help with car payments then deny it. Ask yourself if it’s something you would forget. Sounds like you have been bank rolling his lifestyle and he’s happy for you to do so x

[GoingInsane]

You’re right, I wouldn’t forget if I had agreed to pay towards a car! I also would know whether or not a property was going to be a joint purchase! It’s not now, that part is safe. Thankfully we haven’t yet exchanged contracts and I’ve already had him removed from the mortgage offer (I was porting my existing mortgage) and I’ve also spoken to my solicitor acting in the purchase to make sure it goes in my name only.

[Tiffany]

Sounds like gaslighting and financial abuse to me. You are definitely not going insane. He’s also using various emotional abuse tactics (silent treatment is one of them) on you. If you start reading about abuse tactics then more will probably ring true. I would start taking stock of what is going on and decide if you really want this man moving into your new property. Don’t discuss it with him. Call women’s aid instead and come up with a safe plan of action if you decide you don’t want him to move with you. It sounds like he is perfectly capable of finding places to live when he decides to leave, so don’t worry about what will happen to him. Just work out what is best for you.

[GoingInsane]

I’ve paid for everything. Even the wedding. Even my own wedding ring! That wasn’t the plan, obviously I wouldn’t have agreed to the whole thing if I’d thought I was footing the bill, but he never offered a penny and I ended up paying for it all. With the wedding rings, I brought that up recently. He said he had suggested looking at that jewellers but not actually buying there because they are expensive. I don’t recall that! We both sat in the shop and agreed on the rings to buy! He claimed he paid the deposit on the wedding too. He did not. I remember sitting in the travel agents and he asked me if I could put it on my card and it was never mentioned again! We bought a flat jointly (Detail removed by Moderator) years ago. I ended up having to contribute towards his share of the deposit as well as pay his share of stamp duty and legal fees. Every time I said I was stressed about money and broke his response was to pull out of buying it. It was a new build under construction, if we pulled out we lost £(Detail removed by Moderator). No one in their right mind would write that amount of money off!!! So yes, he absolutely has a history of it.

He has a good job though, he has enough spending money, what does he have to gain by doing this?

[KIP.]

It gives them a sick satisfaction. They like the feeling of power and control. It’s a nasty game for them. Does he have n**********c traits?

[GoingInsane]

Not entirely sure tbh. When we met he was extremely loving and affectionate and always told me how special I was. Then we got married and that stopped overnight. My fault of course! He then proceeded to sigh and eye roll at just about everything I said and we exist like flatmates. He buys his food, I buy mine. He refused to have a joint food budget because he didn’t see why he should have to pay for things he didn’t want to buy. I refused to buy all the food so we buy separately! I’d actually get in from work and he’d be cooking his dinner. I had to ask my husband to at least wait to eat with me!

The thing is, I escaped an abusive relationship years ago. But it was different: he was a jealous hot temperered vile individual. He’d throw things at me and goad me. So with my husband I looked for all the usual signs. The bad temper, the jealousy. But it’s not there. He’s never once shown a hint of jealousy and has never once stopped me doing anything I want to do. He’s genuinely not fussed. That’s what causes my confusion. The things I associate with abuse aren’t there!

[KIP.]

There is a good book called ‘Living with the Dominator’ by Pat Craven. You might also like to ring the helpline number on here. There are many different types of abuse and neglect. It certainly doesn’t seem like a loving respectful relationship. What exactly are you getting from the relationship? Perhaps some good relationship counselling might help you to understand better.

[GoingInsane]

That’s the part that confuses me you see, because he doesn’t dominate me. Passive aggressive traits yes, but he definitely doesn’t dominate me. I’m too forthright and strong willed for that. I do agree that there are different types of abuse. I’ve always wondered if he was financially abusing me but everything ingoogle about financial abuse its the opposite, in that they restrict your access to money and he doesn’t do that.

I don’t think I get anything from the relationship to be honest. He’s not loving towards me. We do things together that we both enjoy, but I could do that with friends! We also have had sex for over a year and even then I stopped taking the contraceptive pill because I didn’t see the point!

I will take a look at the book you recommend thank you x

[Iwantmeback]

Hi goinginsane, i was like you, forthright, wouldn’t take any c**p, but also compliant in that i didn’t care where we went or did, i was just happy being with him.
Now when i voice my concerns im constantly told im talking back have an attitude. Everything hes said and done over the years, i now do to him, i dont but he’s trying to convince me i do. He wont, i journal all the time. Mainly cos he said i forgot too much he’d said or done or asked me to do etc.
He said and is so very pleased with himself as he says it in public, that we dont stop each other going anywhere. Which is true, but it’s how hes treated me over the years, that i no longer do go anywhere.wanting sex before we go out or if i went out on my own The accusations of having affairs, you did it with me to your ex, what’s to stop you doing it to me? wanting to smell my pants when i got in, then saying i couldn’t take a joke when that upset me. And the silent treatment, cos I’d left him at home on his own
. Your post has opened my eyes more to my own situation. I hope our postings can help you with yours.
IWMB 💕💕

[GoingInsane]

Do counsellors let you know if they think you are being abused?

[KIP.]

He does restrict your access to money. By withholding his money you are using your money up. In a marriage the joint incomes should be taken into account. Yes, a good counsellor should be able to allow you knowledge to work that out for yourself. Perhaps go to relate on your own first and ask for a specially trained counsellor with experience of abuse. Your local women’s aid might be a good start. I often think after experiencing an extremely abusive relationship almost anything else seems good. When it truly isn’t. Don’t compare the relationships. Ask yourself what advice you would give a good friend in your position x

[GoingInsane]

I have to say, I’ve never looked at it that way. Just looked at it that he didn’t tell me what I could and couldn’t spend my money on. But equally he did know that I was struggling to pay the extras that were joint. I’m also massively in debt as a result, which is another reason for selling my house and relocating, I can clear my debts and start again! You’re right too KIP, after experiencing a violent and extremely abusive relationship this one did seem very normal to me! X

[Tiffany]

Mine was like that. Never outright banned me from doing things. I cottoned on the minute he did and that was the beginning of me getting out. But he made me feel bad for doing the things I wanted to do. He withdrew affection on a regular basis. And he convinced me that I was going nuts because I couldn’t remember anything as he said it happened. Gaslighting is scary like that. You just don’t expect someone to lie like that, so consistently and with such a straight face.

My partner also wanted everything when it came to our wedding. Fortunately I left in the planning stages. He was willing to cut costs on the dress and the music, they were my interests, and he was happy for me to walk to the venue to save money, but he was going to arrive in a vintage car and have multiple outfits and huge floral arrangements and multiple food vendors and fireworks. Whenever I pointed out that we were on a tight budget he would say if he couldn’t have all of these things then I could call the wedding off. In the end he overplayed his hand and I did call it off. But if he’d been even slightly more cautious then I would have married him and payed for the b****y lot myself because despite him earning twice what I did I was the one who managed to scrape together some savings.

I wasn’t sure if I was being abused when I left. I just knew the relationship was making me miserable. And in the end that should be enough to walk away. It always had been for me before. The fact that leaving was so hard should have been a sign in hindsight. But it doesn’t have to be abuse for you to leave. I am in no doubt that it is. You can’t gaslight people by accident. But either way if you are unhappy with the relationship and he is a drain on your finances then why would you stay?

[GoingInsane]

Tiffany you have reminded me of what he was like in the early days. He didn’t stop me doing what I wanted to do no. But if I text him while I was out, even to this day; I’d get one word responses, if I got any response at all that is. Initially he would cold shoulder me for days after I’d been out. In the early days he would also cold shoulder my friends. We went to a friends (Detail removed by Moderator) and he stood there and refused to have anything to do with anyone because he didn’t like my friend and didn’t want to be there. She came to my house shortly afterwards and was chatty to him while she was waiting for me. He completely blanked her! He’s done similar at various events since, either falls out with friends of mine he doesn’t like or blanks them or chats to them but blanks me. It’s exactly what he did at (Detail removed by Moderator) when he’d been fine the night before. I got a taxi home and left him there, I wasn’t about to spend my time (Detail removed by Moderator) where I didn’t know anyone to be given the cold shoulder all day!

He caught me out nicely with (Detail removed by Moderator) holiday too. I asked him twice if he was ok with the flight costs before I booked everything and he said he was. A couple of days later, after I’d booked the trip, he announced how it was all very well me booking these trips but he can’t afford to spend as much as I can. Never spent a penny towards the trip. Never even offered to pay ancontribution. I did point this out but he still never offered.

I guess it’s that whole trap of how he managed to convince me that my perception of events is wrong. I’ve pulled him up several times in the past not to tell me my reality. And I guess because my previous experience of abuse was violence and this seemed normal by all accounts I thought it was me!

[Iwantmeback]

Hi my husband does the exact same thing and i fall for it every time. Recently for home improvements done. No problem I’ll put money from my account into the joint account jyst remind me to do it. When i suggested he just set up a direct debit somehow it just didnt happen. Somehow the finance company are using my own account instead of the joint account and therefore im left paying fir the bill. He’s said hed give me x amount every 2wks. He’s gave me (Detail removed by Moderator) once. I can’t ask as he’ll go on and on about everything he does pay for, yet the only reason we got the job done was he was okay with the amount agreed, which is going to double with interest after so many years as i really can only pay the minimum amount agreed on. He did the same with (Detail removed by Moderator) we got, which i ended up paying for from the business i had. Went on holidays with money from the business. Got married abroad with money from the business. I really thought nothing of it. Very naive business wise. I ended up going bankrupt. Im coming to realise I’m being financially abused too just not in the way i thought i was😡, because he’s generous otherwise, to a fault.
I don’t know how you can protect yourself from him without getting away from him altogether.😞
Tjinking of you
IWMB 💕💕

[GoingInsane]

Hi IWMB,

Wow, your situation sounds exactly like mine! I have friends who say it’s my own fault because I keep paying for things and letting him get away with it. But that’s just it, I don’t! Each and every time I sit down and discuss things with him and the costs involved and confirm he is ok with it. Each and every time he agrees to things. Then when it comes to it, once I’ve signed the deal and there’s no backing out of an agreement with a third party, hey ho he suddenly either can’t afford it or denies whole conversations! So I’m left footing the bill while he spends his money on himself! It’s not like I’m even left with a choice of not paying, he does it once things are booked or contacts signed! I’m in the same position as you now. I’m self employed and this last year I have spent maxed out on credit cards to the tune of £(Detail removed by Moderator) and, my business account is constantly
In the red and for the first time in (Detail removed by Moderator) years I am actually making a loss this year despite turning over more than I have ever done. I can’t even afford to take a day off any more. He’s booking trips for himself while I have to say I can’t afford a week off and recently saw an amazing weekend yoga retreat I’d have ordinarily have jumped at, except I don’t have the money! I would only take one thing to go wrong now and I’d be bankrupt my finances are so maxed out! Yet he will say to me not dare blame him for the state of my finances. Well they were stable when I met him, I was in a pretty good position financially at that point!

[Iwantmeback]

Hi goinginsane, it’s crazy isnt it. According to him i can’t manage money thats why the business failed 😞i cant get credit now because of him. He’s suggested a family member goes guarantor but im so not asking them. I just don’t trust him, even though he’d be making the payments, I’m just not 100%.
I was brought up to save fir what i wanted, i had enough fir the deposit in our house, a new kitchen, not small potatoes really. For over a decade ive not been able to save. I am now in the process of funding a leaving fund, instead of buying stuff to make me temporarily feel better, i save everything. I still have some debt(joint), but I’ll pay it off so i will have no ties to him. Sone ladies fear being left with debt, i dont, I’ll not let him control me that way😡 I am like you, it’s been huge amounts, almost killed me, made me suicidal. Tried to 3x. I got financial advice and paid it back. I can deal with this amount but i am no longer going to ever listen to him and his promises to make future payments to anything. Back to being independent financially as much as i can. Everything goinginsane is achieved with baby steps, sometimes it’s 2 forward and 10 back.
I’m terrified to leave, though hes said often he won’t stop me. Yet i still stay. Trauma bonded more than i know😭
Stay safe, don’t let him into your head anymore. Once we stop allowing them in to our plans fir the future, our emotional bonds will diminish and stop also. 😁💕
IWMB 💕💕

[GoingInsane]

Hi IWMB, I get told the same thing funnily enough, how dare I blame him for my debt. Well I don’t seem to be spending anywhere near the amount of money on myself as I used to and my monthly outgoings have gone up and up and up! I’m so glad you have taken your baby steps back to financial independence. Stay strong and look after yourself first 💕

My husband says to me if I left it’s up to me. Makes you feel even less valued doesn’t it x

[KIP.]

Just wanted to add that citizens advice are trained in financial abuse. If you don’t have any money or are in debt it makes it much much harder to leave an abusive relationship. I believe he’s planned it this way so that you have to stay with him. If you’re married I believe that your debt is his debt in the case of divorce and vice versa. You can ring Rights for Women for free legal advice. Keeping you financially dependent is an abusers tactic. Running up debt in his partners name is also an abusers tactic. Either directly or indirectly. He’s basically forced you into huge amount of debt and you’re moving home to clear it. Are you sure this is what you want? Financial abuse is a crime x

[GoingInsane]

Hi KIP, I have the money to leave him. Well as long as he doesn’t try and take me for halfmmy house I do. He shouldn’t be able to take me for half my house because we’ve only been together a few years and I had the house for years before we met and he’s never contributed a penny towards it, not a bean. Hasn’t even helped me do anything to it. We had decided to move anyway. Originally I was really upset at the idea of selling my house but the thought of being debt free and the fact the house I found is beautiful. I didn’t realise I could get legal advice from Rights for Women thank you. I had also wondered if my debt was joint too as you say. X

[Flowerchild]

He,s not just gaslighting you, darling, he’s a leech!

Good job your eyes opened wide before you got his name on your house. You’d have had far more trouble getting free from a joint property and you’d have lost half of everything you had!

Flower x

[Iwantmeback]

I withdrew all my spare money so he can’t get any of it if it comes to splitting assets. Ib jyst keep enough in to pay my outgoings
IWMB 💕💕

[GoingInsane]

I remembered this morning that when we applied for the joint mortgage he sent me his bank statements to forward to the mortgage advisor. So I took a look. Not something I would normally do but I needed to know if he was spinning me a line. Sure enough it was exactly as I thought. While I’m barely keeping my head above water and everything is in the red, his financial commitments are minescule and he’s spending thousands a month on himself. He does this knowing that I have no money. In fact a couple of months ago he asked to borrow a small amount of money as he’d run out. I borrowed from my overdraft. He hadn’t even gone overdrawn, although he has the facility to. Probably cheaper to borrow from my facility than the banks! Right now I’m sat here in tears trying to come to terms with the fact that my finances are a mess while he ends the month with money left over! I’ve even asked him where all his money goes and he still managed to convince me he wasn’t actually left with that much money after paying his bills! Needless to say, I still haven’t heard from him. He knows what comes next doesn’t he.

[Iwantmeback]

My husband does the same, borrows from me to save him going to the bank. He’s never stopped me seeing his account, the reason he gives me is he has to make sure he has enough in his account to cover the mortgage over the winter months, but he works full time now, has done for years, was seasonal b4. Says my money’s his and vice versa, but I’ve been in my od for years, hes never been any where near his. Their explanations are so plausible, to an outsider they wouldn’t think anything was off,

[KIP.]

I’d be careful about clearing all that debt if you’re thinking of divorce. That could be a bargaining chip for you. Get good proper legal advice.

[GoingInsane]

KIP are my personal debts considered though? He said they’re not when I spoke to him (detail removed by moderator). So potentially I could end up having to give him half my house and still having my debt. That would almost bankrupt me

[KIP.]

Make sure you keep those bank statements and anything else you can use to fight your corner. Your credit card statements etc. To show it was joint debt. Keep his statements to show he has no debt.

[GoingInsane]

He called (detail removed by moderator). An hour later I’m a mess in tears after a verbal battering.

Basically (detail removed by moderator) I received a call from my solicitor saying he had called her to say as far as he was aware the house purchase was off. It isn’t, I’ve switched it to being bought in my own name but he didn’t know that. Obviously playing games!

He then called (detail removed by moderator). Basically anything I had said to him previously was denied and I was told I’d said things when I haven’t. It’s not the first time he’s done this, he has a history of it. He then told me I don’t know what I’ve said and done when and as a result he’s speaking to a solicitor because he doesn’t trust me. The crux of it is he knows I’ve sussed him out and he knows that this time I can prove it. I told him crazy making is grounds for divorce.

He claims he’s not going to go for half my house. I said there’s nothing left to take, by the time I pay off my debts and put the (minimum) deposit down on the new place there’s nothing left. He said personal debts aren’t considered. He then went on to tell me that I should know as I’ve spoken to solicitors before. Not about this I haven’t! He seems to know more about what I’ve said and done than I do!

I asked him why he’s going to see a solicitor to see what he’s entitled to if he’s not going to go after what little is left of my house, ie nothing!

It’s a mess. I’m a mess. I’ve got barely enough left to start again. I’m (detail removed by moderator), I’ve worked hard all my life and never taken a penny from anyone and here I am having to start again! I’m guessing that as there will be nothing left of my equity he can’t have what I don’t have? I’ve asked him to just sell the joint property we have and split that and let me get on with my life. He then says he has told the solicitor he doesn’t know if this will end in divorce. He just plays with my head all the time, always has done. How do I get out of this mess? I just want to get away from him now tbh. I’m done. I’m broken. I can’t take any more arguments where he tells me what I’m thinking and what I’ve said and done!

How do I find a good solicitor? I’ve always done everything on my own until now, I don’t know how to get out of this.

[Iwantmeback]

Hi goinginsane, WA have solicitors versed in DA. Id get an appointment with one as soon as you can. While you still have the energy to do so. Have you been in contact with WA at all. Try your local one, they lifted such a weight from my shoulders. Id be in my own place just now, but pulled back, it felt as if it was going to fast. You sound so close to breaking point, why’s he even going to a solicitor. He is messing with your head big style. Crazy making is grounds fir divorce too.
I can only say it doesn’t get better, I’m not much older than you, i dont want to have to start again but better now than in another 10 years. When I’ll listen to my own advice is another matter. But something will just click and I’ll do it, same as you will. You’ll do it when you’re ready. They make us doubt ourselves, they make us weak, they make us crazy. No wonder women were put in asylums years ago.

Be strong, be feisty. Be the person you were when you met him, cos it will p..s him off big style🙂
IWMB 💕💕

[lover of no contact]

You can get through this Goinginsane. The realisation that they’ve been duping us is horrible, so painful and the losses etc. But I have been where you are now and got through it and I am getting my life back on track financially and in all areas, slowly One Day At a Time. You can do this too. In fact you sound stronger and feistier than I was and yet with support from the Forum and Women’s Aid he didn’t break me. Let your tears come up, post on here and read the posts. Its a big shock, an awful realisation. But you will rebuild a far better life without him. You would just continue going down-hill if you stayed with him. This way you will rebuild.

Forget the words that came out of his mouth (detail removed by moderator). They were said to have an affect on you and to weaken you and to make your mind and emotions in a mess. The best thing you can do now is go No Contact with him. Don’t see him face to face or don’t read his texts or let his words into your head. It will just set you back. They know what they are doing with what they say to us. Don’t listen. They are master manipulators. Don’t take it personally, its him, if he’s not doing it to you he’ll be doing it to someone else. There is only a 0.5% chance they’ll change. I’m afraid he won’t want to lose you for his money supply. He’s spent money and effort getting you where he wants you. Its easier to hoover you back in rather than him spending time, money and effort reeling in a new intimate partner he can abuse. So break the points of contact with him and you’ll start to feel stronger and start to see clearer.

Keep posting as often as you need.

This very difficult stage will pass.

[GoingInsane]

That made me tearful lover of no contact, when I read that I sound stronger and feistier than you did. I don’t feel it tbh. It comes in waves and I’m pretty sure it’s more a survival instinct. I know I’ve got to get through it and deal with it, I have no choice, then out of the blue I get tearful.

I have started to feel much better this week having kept away. But I do have to go back to the flat (detail removed by moderator) as I can’t stay away from work for the rest of the week, as lovely as my boss is being about it. You’re right he won’t want to let his supply go. After spending (detail removed by moderator) telling me I didnt know my own memory/mind and telling me he was getting legal advice on what he’s entitled to, last night he text (detail removed by moderator). Don’t worry, I haven’t fallen for it. It just staggers me how someone can make you feel crazy and threaten your security and then (detail removed by moderator)s later behave like they give a ****!

Thank you KIP, I did wonder about debt. I’m seeing a professional today. They’ve already taken all the details about who owns what and when it was bought, etc. I also took the advice on here and chose someone who deals with domestic abuse cases so they are able to see what’s going on rather than yet another person treat me like I’m over sensitive. I also have an electronic journal I used a couple of years ago. When we first married it was just horrible. He pretty much ignored me, was constantly rude to me, so much so a friend of mine said she didn’t think he knew any better it came so naturally to him. I kept a journal to save my sanity basically. Except he did stop it, the last time I left him (detail removed by moderator). He threatened divorce then too, but he didn’t go through with it needless to say, but he stopped being rude. Proves he knows what he’s doing. We also don’t have an intimate relationship. Haven’t done for over a year and probably most of the year before that. I often ask him why a man would stay married to someone he doesn’t have an intimate relationship with. Says it’s because he loves me. Hmmmm.

Thank you ladies. I was going to say you have no idea how much you are helping but sadly, if you’re on here, then you absolutely do know xx

[KIP.]

He continues to gaslight you. Personal debt is included which means half is his. Only believe what you know is fact and comes directly from a professional. My ex filled my head with all sorts of lies, if you’re clever you can actually work out what he’s upto by believing the opposite. So when he says personal debt isn’t included. He really means it is included and he’s in hot water. When he says he won’t go after your house. You can bet that’s exactly what he will do. Get a good solicitor and go zero contact. Meantime keep all his texts etc and keep a journal of all the goings on. At least when you write it down you can look back when you’re not so distracted by emotions. Ring the helpline and chat so someone who can point you in the right direction. You will get through this. Keep posting and listen to the wise words of women who have been through you’re nightmare. It will get better x

[Tiffany]

Just wanted to let you know how well you are doing. Stay strong. Stay away from him as much as is humanly possible. Can you stay with a friend or even in a hostel so you can carry on working without living with your abuser. He sounds like a master manipulator and it is much easier to get your head on straight and do what you have to do when you are away from them. I should know. I knew deep down that I needed to end things when my partner punched me in my sleep (again) and then tried to gaslight me into believing it hadn’t happened right after I called off the wedding because of his controlling behaviour. But even with all that I wasn’t strong enough to just end it. I told him we needed a “break” and found myself some temporary accommodation closer to work. I went back at weekends. I still hoped things might get better. I hadn’t found women’s aid at this stage. I couldn’t truly believe he was intentionally abusive. He had PTSD and I wanted to believe that that explained his behaviour. I wanted to believe that he had seen sense and was getting help. Those two days a week were enough for him to keep his claws in me for weeks. He used an intense mixture of lovebombing and guilt tripping and I was exhausted by it. In the end I took a weekend off going back to see him to visit a friend. And that clear run of two weeks (after the weekday independence) without seeing him was enough to clear my mind and end things. It was the best descision I have ever made. But if I hadn’t been able to stay away from him I don’t know that I would ever have made it.

[Iwantmeback]

Hi goinginsane, you have chosen the pierce v name but the way, because there hasn’t been a point in any of our relationships where any of us habe thought we were going insane.
I’ve recently read a book(downloaded of course) by a writer for the guardian. She’s written a column anout the invisible woman which she turned into s book also. It’s not that book im talking about, if i remember correctly her name is Helen walmsley johnston. Her story contains exactly what you’ve just written with regards to him making sure yuour okay, have you eaten, generally making out they give a s..t, especially jyst after some particularly horrible treatment by them.
Please Try and believe you are strong enough to do this. We always believe negativity about ourselves especially coming from those pertaining to love us.

IWMB 💕💕

[SunshineRainflower]

Hi GoingInsane,

I read your thread and wanted to second what the others have said – this is definitely gaslighting and financial abuse.

I am so glad you saw through the fog of the abuse before buying a house with him. He sounds absolutely awful and like he has been tricking you into funding a great lifestyle for him whilst he treats himself to expensive luxuries at your expense. It makes me mad just thinking about it.

The good news is you’ve figured him out now, and you’re clearly intelligent and savvy and will do well once you’ve manage to get him out of your life. He may have hurt your finances but have faith you will be able to build yourself back in no time without him draining you and lead a much better life.

One thing I’d advise is be VERY cautious now because he is likely to try different tactics to get you to return to him (such as guilt tripping, saying he’s heart broken, buying you gifts, they try all sorts) or on the other end of the scale he could get nasty.

If you can communicate just through a third party/solicitor and keep things very professional and clinical as it stops them from being able to use manipulative and threatening tactics.

I wasn’t married to my ex but I think if I had married him he would have been just like your husband because he was also a big big fan of gaslighting me and was also the tightest, meanest person I’d ever met. He had a really good job and boasted about getting bonuses etc whilst I was trying to get self employment off the ground and had no money. Yet he never bought me a meal or even drink out, asked me for parking money and the worst thing was that he didn’t have food in at his house so I started buying it for both of us! And of course when he came round to my house he ate my food. I also remember buying us lunches out. It was a really strange feeling because previous boyfriends had always been generous but this guy always made me feel somehow that I should be paying.

I noticed in his house that several of his belongings he’d actually taken from his work. So he was bordering on thief territory. If he could get something free even if it meant dodgy ethics and morals, he would and would feel totally entitled to it. They are not like regular people who have morals and a conscience.

Definitely do not buy a house with him nor let him live with you. Look up the Power and Control Wheel and the Cycle of Abuse, read up on financial abuse and look at Pat Craven’s resources, (removed by moderator) and how not all abusers use the same tactics (like you said about your previous abusive ex being abusive in a very different way).

Well done, keep going and let us know how it goes.

[SunshineRainflower]

I also forgot to add, I often wonder if money was my ex’s main motivation in dating me. My parents had worked hard their whole lives and lived (detail removed by moderator) and I think he thought we were rich. He was always trying to manipulate me into having unprotected sex (which I refused) and was moving things on at a very fast pace. One of my theories is that he was trying to get me pregnant then married to him and then he would have access to my family’s money.

Once when he dropped round to my house I was working (detail removed by moderator). He came in and sat down and picked up a book whilst I went to get something in another room. When I came back it was so weird because my stomach lurched and I got this horrible chilling bad gut feeling. I think it was because it looked like he hadn’t moved an inch and was reading the same page over and over – something about it was really off about it like he had been frozen in time. I think what had happened was while I was out of the room he’d been trying to find my passwords and bank details or something like that and had picked the book up again at the same page when he heard me coming back.

I’ll never know but I suspect it was something like this because I found evidence that he’d tapped into my phone and I was mysteriously signed me up for some premium rate service thing that I’m still trying to recover the money from now, that the phone company says someone must have signed me up for. I think he did it for fun knowing it would cause me stress. I am thankful every day that he didn’t get a penny and it also taught me a valuable lesson about putting a lock on my phone and having good security for passwords etc. Expect the worst from him as it helps you prepare.

[lover of no contact]

If you are going back to your house and will be in his company again just know to expect you will feel awful after interacting with him (like you’ve been run over by a bus), or else if he tries the love-bombing tactic you will feel confused and maybe start to minimize. But we’re here with any emotions and thoughts that come up. Don’t bother confronting him or being angry with him. He will love that. Even hateful feelings directed at him. Even better, this is negative fuel for them and they love that. Makes them feel powerful. Sick personality he has. They love stirring up our emotions. He will be delighted. So don’t give him any ‘fuel’. Starve him of your presence. Try to do minimum contact with him in the house, for the moment. Neutral expression. Don’t let him know you have seen him for what he is.

Abusers hate when we take the control back and go No/Minimum contact. They hate when we eventually become ‘indifferent’ to their sick games and their sick antics. They love the drama of the chaos that they create.

Knowledge is Power, so keep reading the posts on here and posting.

[Iwantmeback]

So Christmas is coming b up. I feel it is going to be our last. He’s already putting out, tell your lot not to buy me anything, same as hes said for a few now. Now I’ve been told hes not getting me anything as he can’t afford it, which is rubbish, he shows me his bank balance. So do i take him at his word and have a miserable Christmas or do i get him something cos no doubt he’ll change his mind and deny even suggesting all this. Lord i wish i was 2yrs down the line. By 5he way , it’s this a form of gaslighting to?
IWMB 💕💕

[GoingInsane]

Hi all, thank you so much for your support. Each and everyone one of you writes of your own experiences that ring so true. I feel for each and every one of us that only ask for a loving relationship yet end up in these situations. It’s so hard to comprehend there are people out there who enjoy doing this to us. I went to see a solicitor the day after he threatened my financial stability by letting me know he was entitled to half and was taking legal advice to see what he was entitled to. I chose a solicitor who deals with domestic abuse so that I have one who understands the games and mindset involved. He knows I have been and he knows I have had the petition for divorce drafted. He knows because he has been completely hostile and cold towards me. Apparently he was divorcing me for clearing off for several days when I couldn’t cope. I deserve it according to him. Never mind that I’d been under so much stress and then he kicked off and I just had to remove myself. Never mind that I spent a day in bed not functioning and had to force myself to get on with things. I’m sure most would call that an emotional breakdown or at least very close to it! Concerned? No, I’m out of order. He’s also continued spending loads of money on himself over the last couple of weeks. When I tried to explain why I was unhappy he couldn’t afford to buy dinner and a gift when the reality is that he can spend loads as he’s doing on himself but he’s just not making me priority, he told me he can’t spend his life with someone he has to financially justify himself to. No I don’t suppose he does! I think more to the point he realises I’ve seen through him and that a switch in me has flicked. I’m now (detail removed by moderator) weeks away from completion on my house and not sure where to go next. The solicitor has my reasons for divorce so that the petition can be finalised ready to issued and I’ve instrucyed her but I’m concerned if I issue it before we reach a financial agreement he will go all out for everything purely out of spite. My solicitor says that because of the shortness of the marriage it’s highly unlikely he will be entitled to anything I had when we met and yes, despite what he says my debts are included in the pot! My solicitor has said to get moved and pay off my debts first. She said ultimately he won’t get the money but if he played nasty he could get it held pending a court decision so could delay me repaying my debts for several months. I need to pay off my debts to be able to afford to move out of the flat we share. But I’m concerned if I don’t issue the petition now he will petition. But then do I really care who petitions? Not really, I just want out and to be able to pay off my debts and start again. (detail removed by moderator) years of hard work I’m effectively like a first time buyer all over again! I need to be able to pay off my debts if I’m ever going to be able to retire. So I don’t know what to do. Do I sit tight for a couple of weeks and get moved and pay off my debts or do I petition now? If I petition now my reasons are only going to inflame the whole situation.

[GoingInsane]

I’m also struggling with the fact that he’s made no attempt to see things from my point of view and no attempt to put things right. I’m in the wrong and that’s that, I deserve to end up divorced! I’m selling up my home and going to an area where I don’t know anyone and he says it’s my fault!

[Iwantmeback]

My oh makes no attempt to see anything from my point of view either. I’m accused of answering back when all I’m trying is to have a discussion or even a conversation. When i disagree, his reply is usually, I’m only saying. He sounds like a politician with all his sound bites🤨if ive heard, you’ll listen when its to late, o ff more time i swear its going on his grave stone. Though IF I’m still with him then, I’m wont be burying him, he’ll get cremated and the undertakers can do what they like with his ashes. Then again, i might just bin them where they belong😄
Dont worry about your debts, either you can or your lawyer will get in touch with the creditors, explain the situation and that they’ll get paid once everything is finalised. Ask also if they can put a freeze on any interest on the payments. It’ll take the pressure off worrying about something else whilst dealing with this. There’s ALWAYS a way, we just need to ask the right questions or read other posts on who’ve gone down that road before us.
Take heart my love, sending some virtual strength and love to you. Hope you’re feeling better too. You seem to get to a stage where you need to curl up and pull the covers over you and shut everything out 😔 you will get by this too,💜

IWMB 💕💕

[Iwantmeback]

Meant to say CAB are great at dealing with debts and DA plus they’re free to use, so no money being paid to the lawyer for all that correspondence as well.xx

[KIP.]

You keep referring to them as ‘my debts’. they’re half his debts so at most you should be paying off half the debt. The other half is his. I’m concerned that once a legal separation is in place, that’s when the debts in the relationship count. So if you pay them off, there are no debts at the point of legal separation meaning he has a clean slate and can go after your home or other assets and you have nothing to offset this? Ignore everything he says to you. Make a decision with advice from your solicitor and stick to it. It doesn’t matter who petitions who. I got a solicitor first who wrote with my intention to divorce but he made things impossible so I gave up. (Detail removed by moderator) years later he petitioned me. I wasn’t in any fit state to deal with him, still triggered by PTSD and any contact. It was hell. Now I’m grateful he petitioned or I’d probably still be married to the idiot. So write down your end goal. What you want from the end of the marriage and don’t deviate if your solicitor thinks it’s what you would get anyway. Hope that makes sense. Also the solicitor letters back and forward end with “without prejudice” this basically means he can write what he wants and these letters cannot be used in court. Mine used these letters as a way to continue his abuse. All the while running up a huge legal bill and my idiot first solicitor happily corresponding about nonsense and lies. Do not engage x

[Iwantmeback]

Hi Goinginsane, I agree with KIP in relation that while married all debts are both of your responsibility , there’s no yours and his. I understand what and why you want to rid yourself of them, but as i said earlier, they can be frozen and then sorted out payment wise as part of the divorce packages. As KIP says, don’t listen to a word he says, unless you hear it from a professional, he’ll try and mess with your head. Why should he be knowledgeable about something he has no legal understanding of, unless he’s a divorce,civil lawyer himself. They play on our fears, whatever they may be, financial, children, standing in the community, compassion, whatever it takes to get into our heads.

You’re doing great, it’s not easy living with and planning to leave an abuser. 💜💜

IWMB 💕💕

[GoingInsane]

Hi ladies, I refer to them as my debts because the cards are all in my name, but yes you are right, if he wants half my assets he can have half my debts! The initial consultation I had with my solicitor she advised to carry on as I was, complete on the house and pay off my debts and then petition. I think she sees it that ultimately the end result would be the same but will take longer if I hold onto the debts. I did wonder why she thinks this though because it does leave me with an asset, ie my new house that I’ve bought while I’m married and debt free so surely that puts me in a weaker position?

[Iwantmeback]

Hi i think you need to ask her to clarify her reasoning as to why she suggested to you what she did. The WA solicitor i spoke with advised me that they’d let the debtors know the situation and that the debts would be paid when the house was sold. Maybe they just have different ways of getting the end results😏. Hope things are resolved quickly fir you.
IWMB 💕💕

[GoingInsane]

Well the debts are being paid out of the sale of a house I owned before I met him. But that leaves me with no equity left over and a larger mortgage on the new place despite it being a cheaper property. We only another place jointly. He’s now asking for a split of that in his favour despite the fact I put more into it and made it clear he would ‘go quietly’ if I agreed to it. Basically threatening everything else if I don’t agree to it. Unbelievable. He has paid the bare minimum towards what he has to pay for 3 years and now walks away in the same position as me when he came with nothing. He’s also playing the victim card now and how this wouldn’t be happening if I hadn’t gone to solicitors, that it’s not what he wanted. Seems to have conveniently forgotten I went to a solicitor because he told me he’d arranged to see one to see what he was entitled to! Calculated to the core!!!! I am so tired and it’s only the start of it all x

[Iwantmeback]

It’s the most exhausting time in my life, i dont remember being like this even when i had my babies, that was a totally different type of exhaustion. why can’t they just go

IWMB 💕💕

[KIP.]

Totally ignore what he says. He’s still Gaslighting you. Arguing with an abuser is like playing chess with a pigeon. Even when they lose the simply knock over the pieces sh*t on the board and strut around like they’ve won. Find out what the law says he’s entitled to. After that if you want to argue via court it will cost you both a lot of money. My ex was full of threats but eventually he backed down. Not before running up huge legal bills.

[Iwantmeback]

Thanks @KIP, i literally just burst out laughing there, picturing a wee pigeon foing its business all over a chess board. 🤣🤣

[GoingInsane]

hahaha that did make me laugh the pigeon sh1tting on the board and strutting around. tonight he’s being all nice again. I’m not.

[lover of no contact]

You’re doing great GoingInsane. With you both in the house together try to not be in contact with him so you don’t even know if he’s being nice (really manipulative) or not. He’s happy because he has contact with you again, he’s happy even if you are not being nice to him that’s still fuel for him. They love our negative fuel (us angry at them etc). They hate when we go No Contact and remove our presence from them. Aim to be in the househouse but to not be in his presence. A good rule of thumb is each day ‘make sure you don’t see his eyeball’ lol

Contact with them weakens us and strengths us. But conversely when we don’t see their eyeballs (lol) on a daily basis we stay clearheaded and they can’t manipulate us. And them not seeing us weakens them.

Starve the monster of your presence. He needs your emotional reactions and responses. Starve him, don’t give him any. Never be in the same room as him while you stay in the house. Do whatever it takes. This is essential.

They are Master- Manipulators. We are no match for them except to use No Contact/minimum contact. That’s all we can do .

Keep posting.

[lover of no contact]

typo- Our contact with them strengthens them

[Author]

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