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I, like others, am trying to get my head around whether what I am experiencing is abuse.
My husband has suffered from depression for most of his life with several boats a year. His behaviour is very similar to that described as emotional abuse. He can change suddenly from kind and understanding to angry and hurtful. He attacks my self esteem, he belittles my achievements and scoffs at my interests and pleasures. He threatens to leave when I disagree with him and says we should never have got married. I have to be careful what I say and do in case he gets annoyed. He doesn’t like me enjoying other people’s company, especially men, and sees it as an insult if I want to do things on my own.
I have asked him to get help for his depression which has done for short periods but never persevered with it. Sometimes he just denies that the way he is behaving or feeling is because he is depressed.
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Mental illness is never an excuse. He sounds like a typical abuser. He chooses to abuse you when there are no witnesses so he knows it’s wrong. Can he control his abuse around others and save it for you behind closed doors? Calculated and in control. I’ve been depressed and never abused anyone x depression doesn’t make anyone an abuser x speak to women’s aid and read other posts on here. Your story is sadly all too familiar. Keep posting for support x
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Depression can make you act unreasonably or irresponsibly at times while you’re struggling with it but it does not make you abusive and it would be across the board with all relationships/scenarios. As Kip says if he’s capable of being nice around others it’s something he can control. He’s choosing to abuse you. Well done taking the step to figuring things out. x
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Hi there. I didn’t need to read your post (I did anyway 🙂) because I answered your question from the title of your post.
No is the answer to the first part, yes to the second. He is an abuser and abuse is his value system and core belief. It’s not an illness and it’s unlikely therapy would help, it’s just who he is.
Do you want to live like that forever? Having to tread carefully and thinking about his reactions and second guessing his feelings all the time, doing what pleases him and not you? That’s what an abuser does. He wants attention focussed on him always and will send you in circles playing these mind games to make sure you think of nothing but him, isolating you, slowly chipping away at your self esteem. He will use mental health as his hook to keep you going back.
Please think carefully about whether this is the life you really want or deserve. Xx
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I was in a similar position to you, in that I excised my abusers behaviour for years because he had mental health issues. In the end there were a few things that clued me in to the fact that he was abusive, rather than just unwell. Basically mental health issues can make people exceptionally difficult to live with, but it shouldn’t fit the patterns for abuse, unless they are mentally ill and abusive. The most obvious sign that he was hurting me intentionally was that my partner used gaslighting to try and convince me that my memory couldn’t be trusted, that I was making things up and that I was the one with problems. You haven’t mentioned this behaviour, but I would definitely read up about it, and see if it rings any bells. It’s not the kind of thing that you can do by accident, and that was my first tip off that he was intentionally hurting me.
The other sign that he was doing it intentionally which I managed to pick up before I left was that he consistently used things I had told him I was insecure about against me, but never immediately. He’d save them up, wait until 6 months down the line and then use them to hurt me, when he could deny remembering that I had told him about it. I can’t give you any real examples of this, because they would be too identifying, but I will give made up examples to illustrate. So if I told him that I had been really self conscious about my freckles, because I had been bullied as a kid, but I had got over it and tried to embrace them these days then he would be super sympathetic and tell me that he thought my freckles were cute. This would be the last time he would ever say anything nice about the freckles. 6 months down the line he would start saying things like “I think you should put sun cream on so your freckles don’t get any worse”, and “you’d look so much prettier if you wore make-up to cover your freckles”, and when I challenged him on this he would deny all knowledge that I had told him they were something I had worked hard to embrace, and claim that he was just trying to help me look my best! Or if I said that my very fashionable sister didn’t approve of my clothing choices then if I wore a dress that I particularly liked, which was a bold choice, he would tell me that he had spoken to my sister and she agreed that the colour didn’t suit me, or that it made me look fat, or that the cut was inappropriate. Really nasty insidious stuff, and he really did pull in the opinions of my family and friends to make me believe that everyone thought these horrible things about me and that he wasn’t being mean, he was just telling the truth about me. He was so controlled and so consistent in homing in on my insecurities that I realised that couldn’t be random lashing out – although there was plenty of random abuse too.
In the end it wasn’t a clear cut decision that I knew he was abusive that made me leave. It definitely helped that I had identified a few things that were abuse not just mental health issues, but in the end my decision to leave was based on two things. One was that I couldn’t help him get better from his mental health issues. I had tried and tried, and he didn’t want to get help. And the other was that his behaviour was destroying my mental health. This was nearly tied up by my friend who told me “a coping mechanism isn’t a coping mechanism of it hurts other people” and his coping mechanism was to hurt me. In the end I had to convince myself to put myself first, and get out. I have never looked back.
In your case, the thing that stands out to me as clearly not depression is your partner’s jealousy. I have had depression. I have had friends with depression. It can cause clinginess, but not a desire to cut other people off from friends and family in my experience. I would say that belittling other people’s hobbies and interests also doesn’t sound much like depression. I am pretty sure what you are facing is either depression used to excuse abuse, or just plain abuse. But even if it was just depression he would rather carry on hurting you than seek help so that he can stop. And that is as good a reason to leave him as you can need. If the idea of leaving makes you feel guilty rather than sad that things haven’t worked out then you can be pretty sure it is abuse (abusers use guilt to control us), so try and ignore it and make your plans based around what is best for you.
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Thank you all so much!
Yes KIP and ultimatelyStrong he does control his abuse around others, I.e he doesn’t abuse me at all in front of others outside the home and he doesn’t do it to other people, although he has done it in front of the kids a few times and very occasionally says hurtful things to them.
Tiffany, lots of things to think about and read up on. You’re experience sounds awful and some of it certainly is familiar.
x*x
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Abusing you in front of the children is classed as child abuse. It’s been proven that children who witness/are subjected to abuse are much more likely to be abused as adults. They learn from their parents behaviour x they learn that it’s okay to be abusive and normal to be abused. For their sake take a look at your relationship and contact women’s aid x
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Sadly “guy with mental health issues who abuses and then blames mental health issue” is a sub-genre of the “I had a really s**t life and I am going to make your life worse to make me feel better”. It tends to rely on making you feel sorry for them to control you, rather than making you fear them. They chose empathetic victims and their illness/s****y life experience/tragic backstory is used as a trump card to justify all behaviour regardless of how appalling it is. It’s not a tactic used by all abusers, but it’s pretty common. Even now periodically I read things and think “I don’t remember writing that” and then realise that I didn’t write it, I just lived the sane experience that someone else has written. It’s awful to think that there are people out there who do that, and worse when you realise one of those people is your partner (or more likely, your ex partner – it’s really hard to see what is going on clearly until after you leave). It’s really not a normal part of mental illness though. No matter what he might tell you.
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Just now, out of the blue, he said ” so you think I’m the abuser in this relationship”. I asked him what he meant. I was scared. He said I blamed him for our relationship falling apart. I asked him when I had said that and he just shook his head but didn’t give any examples. He said “You think I stop you going out with other people”. I asked when I had said that and he just got angry. I said that he had said he wanted to live separate lives so maybe that was when I had said something. He just said that “If I’m happy that’s ok then” and left the house to get some booze. Found myself trying to think what I might have said and wondering why I didnt remember things the way he said they were….
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Definitely sounds like gaslighting. I would also be aware that he may be monitoring your internet use. I would recommend using incognito windows, which don’t save your searches when you are looking up things to do with abuse, including this site. For a long time I thought I just have let things slip to him and told him things I didn’t mean to because he would say that I had said certain things about him that I had only ever told friends via text messages. I realise now that he was reading everything on my phone, for which he had the password – even though he would go absolutely nuts if I so much as glanced at his phone while he was texting. Double standards being another thing that abusers love, but which are definitely not a typical sign of mental illness…
I agree with KIP that it sounds like there is definitely gaslighting going on. Read up on it when it is safe to do so.
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I wrote him a note yesterday as we can’t seem to talk without anger or sulking. I said that I am sad (not happy) that we can’t have a stable relationship, that I miss the good times but even then I’m always fearful of when it will all change to anger and sulking. I explained that I can’t cope anymore with his threatening to leave saying (detail removed by moderator) or wishing he was dead.
He wrote me a reply (detail removed by moderator) and now I’m even more confused and doubting myself. He says I make him feel insecure and anxious too. He says I belittle his background and up bringing.He says (Detail removed by moderator). He wishes he had been stronger retaining his identity.
He also says he has a lot of baggage around our relationship that he can’t shake off.
He implies that I am to blame for his periodically saying he wants to leave. He says (Detail removed by moderator)
I don’t understand! -
Dancing in the rain. What his doing is projecting how your feeling back at you. He knows exactly what his doing. It’s like a child having an argument in a playground saying you did this and the other child saying no you did it because they don’t want to get into trouble. What his doing is classic gaslighting. These men are so clever he knows you will feel so guilty if you believe you are the problem. Believe me for a long time my partner told me I was the problem. Sit back and think how have you behaved in the relationship do you honestly think you would have caused him to feel this way? It’s absolute rubbish and his belittling how you feel. Don’t get sucked in to that fog hunni you know who he really is as hard as that is for you. You deserve so much better❤️
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I am afraid there is no doubt now that what you are describing now is an abusive relationship, not living with someone with depression. He is going to do everything he can to make you think you are the problem. You are not going to be able to have a straight conversation with him about the issues that you are facing as a couple or how you are well about his behaviour, because he is going to use every word you say against you. Honestly, the best advice I can give you is to organise to leave, as soon as you can, to get away from his head spinning madness and to start sorting your life out away from him. However, I know from experience that you might not be ready to do that.
So what I would suggest is that you keep careful notes somewhere of his behaviour, what he has said to you and what he has accused you of. Possibly setting up a secret email account which you email yourself in with updates of what has been going on. Your partner is going to do everything in his power to switch your focus over to what you are doing, because if you are using all your energy analysing your behaviour you don’t look so closely at his. It’s one of the ways abusers improve their lives. Every time you go to them with the ways in which you are unhappy, they come back with ways you are making them unhappy, and before long you find yourself doing all the housework, because mess makes them unhappy, and only cooking their favourite meals, because cooking things you like makes them feel unloved, and watching what they like on TV, and staying home instead of meeting up with friends, because being left at home makes them feel unloved. And before you know it, you are running round like a headless chicken trying to make their lives perfect, they haven’t changed one thing, apart from learning exactly how to push the buttons to make us really upset, and we think we are the problem. The really important thing right now is to keep your focus on his behaviour, and ask yourself if you really want to live with it.
Don’t tell him any of this. It’s hard, and sometimes feels duplicitous, but it’s for your own safety. And when you are ready to leave, tell him nothing until you are safely out. Even though you don’t feel threatened by him, because his abuse is emotional not physical, he is a master of manipulation and can convince you to stay.
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Thank you both, its so good to hear that I’m not going mad and that you recognise this king of behaviour.
Yellowflower you ask me to think of how I have behaved and I have always done my best to support him, to build him up when he is down and to tell him that he is good at things and that he needs to stop comparing himself with others because I know he is depressed. the only thing I think I have done wrong is that I had an emotional relationship with a male colleague at work. we started as friends but then got very close. A lot of it was the need to spend time with someone who countered the constant abuse by maiing me feel good about myself again and understanding the things I was dealing with and just listening. My husband becaome aware of this close relationship by checking my emails and phone calls and often uses it to demonstrate how the way he feels is my fault, although interestingly he didn’t raise it in his note…. The trouble is that I feel guilty and it plays on my mind when I want to be clear that the problem is that he is abusing me and it makes me feel that I may be to blame how he feels. However when I think about it more clamly I know that he was already abusing me before I met this person and if it hadn’t been that it would have been something else that he would use against me
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If you didn’t feel guilty, would you stay in a relationship that makes you feel this miserable? If you didn’t feel guilty, would you accept your partner looking through your emails and phone messages? If you didn’t feel guilty about not supporting your partner with his depression would you accept the way he talks to you.
Guilt is one of the most powerful tools of oppression that an abuser has. It forms a part of a trio of tactics often referred to on this forum as FOG. F stands for fear, which is the kind of classic thing you think of with domestic abuse. Dear of retribution if you stand up to him, fear of losing your kids to him if you leave, fear of what people will think if they find out, that kind of thing. My partner used a bit of this. Fear that I wouldn’t cope without him in particular, but it was never a primary tactic. The O stands for obligation. Marriage vows can be a big part of this one. Or having kids and feeling like you can’t leave for their sake. Or he does nice things for you and tells you that means you owe him nice gestures in return. Again, my abuser used a bit of this. I am disabled and he supported me massively when I was coming to terms with this. He did a lot for me in our first years together, and then told me that this meant I owed him, basically to the end of time. I was still disabled, so I couldn’t do all the things he had done to support me when he had his mental health crisise, so even though I was doing all I could for him I still owed him and always would. Finally the G stands for guilt, and it is by far the favourite tool of “damaged” abusers. They make us feel sorry for them, and then they make us feel bad for not doing enough for them, and they tell us how hard their lives are and how they can’t live without us. And the guilt keeps us in place, fulfilling their every whim. It’s really common with abusers with mental health problems (real or otherwise).
If you could step away from this FOG, is the man you are with someone you want to be with?
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Both had too much to drink and had a blazing row last night. Nothing physical but lots of anger. I finally told him that he keeps on saying he wants a divorce, to live on his own etc. so why doesn’t he do it if it’s so bad being in a relationship with me.
This morning he’s behaving as if nothing happened. He made me coffee and was smiling and chatting to me about a conversation he just had with a mutual friend about (detail removed by moderator). This is horrid! -
Please remember he thrives on your distress and destroying your mental health. The weaker and more confused you become, the stronger and more confident he becomes. Don’t make the mistake of thinking his thought process is anything like yours. My ex raped me then acted like nothing happened. They deny and justify their behaviour to themselves, often blaming us and are quite happy in that delusional world but it’s confusing and crazy making to us x
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Tiffany, thank you for the quote “a coping mechanism isn’t a coping mechanism if it hurts other people”. I’m in a somewhat similar situation with my dad who has mental and physical health issues. On the one hand I’ve excused his abusive behaviour because I knew he was ill and experiencing mental illness but on the other hand I know on some level I didn’t deserve to be treated like that. He also blamed his behaviour on anxiety and depression when I told him he couldn’t just keep taking things out on me. It’s helpful to see that quote because it validates that I’m not being some sort of horrible person by not letting him mistreat me. OP I hope you’ve been able to get the understanding and help you need too.
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Starqueen you are right that is a great quote to keep in mind while we are trying to understand what is happening and how we should be feeling. The replies I am getting on here are a real lifeline. I don’t know how I would cope without them. I suppose I’d just do what I always have done and break down in a miserable mess, at which point he would start behaving normally until the next time, which get more and more frequent – just as KIP says. Love to you all x*x
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