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Just been thinking. There were many times I said to him he was controlling and manipulative. I mean not in a direct way tho, like he didn’t really say don’t do this, don’t do that etc. It was more me thinking I can’t do that because it might upset or annoy him then he’ll withdraw, be silent and I’d apologise. It drove me nuts, actually thought I was insane. In hindsight my life was too busy to have this hassle in it but he was a constant on my mind. Me, constantly worrying about his depression, his study,his work, making sure HE got headspace. In fact it was me that needed headspace!!
When I confronted him about stuff he would look puzzled, shake his head, don’t be daft he’d say that didn’t happen or he’d have no recollection. Stop over thinking etc.
I truly believe he’s now thinking he’s done nothing wrong. I remember one night we were in bed and he was having one of his rants about how I wasn’t stupid but a wee bit gullible then he would verbally insult my son. Then he finished his rant and proceeded to ‘have his way’ with me. Now……usually he was very attentive and respectful in that respect but all I remember is freezing and letting him do it. Tat time tho he wasn’t. Then he fell asleep. Woke in the morning like nothing had happened. Didn’t remember anything.
Do you think they are in fact totally unaware?
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In my opinion they are one hundred percent aware. You and I are aware of our behaviour. They are too. I caught mine smirking when he thought I couldn’t see. Don’t ever think they are unaware. They are aware enough to gaslight you. Change the subject to distract you from his behaviour. Put the blame on you. I think they justify their behaviour to themselves in a totally warped dysfunctional way. We will never understand their behaviour so don’t waste your time. Once an abuser, always an abuser X
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Yep. And yet here I find myself trying to understand, justify and comprehend his behaviour – AGAIN! I realise it’s something no-one can comprehend. Maybe it’s just the time of year or perhaps I’ve moved on to yet another emotion. I’ve no idea but one thing’s for sure I can’t/won’t get all wet blanket about it, I’ve got to be strong to get justice.
You couldn’t be more correct about our own behaviour i.e. we are totally aware of it so indeed that means they are too.
Thanks KIP xx
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I said the same to a psychologist and their reply was that if he’s not aware he will never stop and that is even more worrying. I think sometimes it becomes normal so it’s no longer recognised as a bad thing by them or us we just accept it. X
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There are a lot of differing theories about this I don’t know how aware mine was – on one level he must have known what he was doing, but at the same time he thought he was a victim and was unable to comprehend why I left him. These men can’t ever be wrong which means everyone else around them must be wrong. They take no responsibility and instead project their inner worlds and wrongdoings onto others. For those of us who have a conscience it is virtually impossible to understand abusers. They just don’t think like we do. They don’t care.
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I agree. I know he feels like a victim and then I feel like I have to put it right even if he has hurt me because he never means to do it when it’s physical. If he’s in a sadistic mood and wants to play with my head he will enjoy it and take ownership but never to anyone outside the house.
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Gosh so many different theories floating around, I suppose it’s also down to how we interpret the behaviour, close up or from the outside looking in.
I know if I saw and heard my life I would say …Get out quick, he’s twisting you around for his own needs..
Much talk is given to the word boundaries…Fir the survivors to change our behaviour etc etc.
However when do they change their boundaries?? If ever, they see the hurt tears pain Infront of their eyes!
What more evidence is needed that they don’t know what they’re doing?It’s clear, they know. Who would want to just own up to that?
Certainly not them they’re scared of being uncovered for who they really are.
Denial is obviously their protection!! They don’t have a conscience…Just denial.C x
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I am sorry you are having a bad evening Dragonfly. I hope by the time you read this things are a bit better. Stay strong x
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Interesting thread and something I have thought long and hard about. I used to think he was not aware, not doing it conciously until after we split and our child explained to me how she would hear us argueing and then a lull, in which he would go off and silently strategise his next verbal assult on me – and then come back and do it. She knew what he was doing and she had to point it out to me.
Then I realised something, he is 100% aware of what he is doing but in his head he is also 100% ‘right’ – which is why they will never change. Abusers sees nothing wrong with treating someone that way, they don’t understand when we point it out because they don’t see anything wrong with it.
They will never change because of this..
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Dragonfly! Lovely to read that your ..up & running!
I was thinking…again…about the question.
I think probably all abusers would not want to identify with the enormity of that word abuse. They would instead ignore their actions …as it would in reality it would be a police matter, the law, with consequences and punishment…as long as it all settled down after his crazy unnatural unecccessary irrational outbursts…about NOTHING…I may add ( like I bought water and he had so he drop kicked a bottle of milk against the door…yea he’s not crazy…)then alls well.
No one needs to know and it’s nothing, as he said many time…what are we going on about? it’s you your paranoid…all that BS, no wonder he must have been cr**ing himself incase I reported him.I know he was terrified of the police, he mentioned by the by, his ex, not in this country, must have got him arrested ( of course didn’t say what about, just she was nuts and all wrong blah blah) he spent a night in the police station!! Shock horror.
Why didn’t anyone who knows his history…like his family, tell me straight when I told them he was acting strange and I didn’t know why or what it was?
Could have saved me a nightmare! Families can have a lot to answer for, protecting their abuse family member at the expense of their partners and kids.
What planet are some people on? I mean maybe they’ll have to face facts one day, people live in cloud cuckoo land, but hopefully what goes around comes around, and it will bite them on the backside one fine day!
Then they will know all about it.C X
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Do they know they’re abusers – I don’t think they do. An abuser is a “bad” label. In their eyes what they do is acceptable, it’s the way to treat others. So they can’t posibly be wrong.
Challenging them about the behaviour leads to them justifying it, turning it round so they’re the victim. Mine won an Oscar in this skill! He even told me his previous relationship was abusive and he’d been the victim of physical abuse – had a scar to prove it where he’d been attacked with a sharp object. I learned years later he was not lying about the scar and he had been attacked by someone. What he omitted to say was that his attacker (a child) was trying to stop him strangling another close relative. Police injunction followed but no charges as they were all fearful of his response.
They gaslight with such skill we never trust our minds and even get to believe we’re in the wrong.
The fundamental error is in their minds – their “wiring” is wrong. They are inherently bad people. They can’t change and won’t try because they probably get a kick out of what they do because we give into them. Why change when you’re right and everyone else is wrong? When we stop they just escalate and then move on. It’s a cycle. The only thing that breaks it is when they age and die.
They have no respect for anyone. No respect for themselves. No insight. No heart or soul and no ability to love or respect. They only feel power over others, never remorse for their actions. They receive love and adoration as they are good at love bombing, They charm us, and our families, then destroy us. It’s like a spider and his web they trap you twist you up and destroy you, suck you dry and leave an empty shell.
Don’t try to understand their motives, don’t try to reason with them, just recognise the abuse and get away as fast as you can. -
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I think they know, deep down they know. My ex used to say stuff like, you don’t know me at all…so so creepy. I said oh I know you alright you should be ashamed of yourself, but you CHOOSE not to look at yourself your vile behaviour, you turn the nice tap on again, so we think your RA reasonable human being…then it all starts agin, they just have to destroy.
Probably a self destruction as well as others, no sense of Self, nothing going on for them, nothing really to live for, except this cycle to make them feel something…by hurting and pain it makes them feel for that moment……then inertia a void, no feeling, no empathy or sympathy…I think they are totally lost in a pit which they carry around with them wherever they go.
I do not sympathise at all, they leave a trail of destruction and broken families, they need to be punished and to be made to face the consequences, it’s not allowed in a civilised society, to do what you want how you want to whom you want. Otherwise we’d be all living like cave men. There are rules, boundaries, the law etc which are meant to prevent anybody wrecking another’s life in whatever format.
Prosecute them, make them know what they do is wrong on every level. Then attempt to re programme theeir behaviour with DV counsellors to at least try to show them another way of existing in harmony without violence and abuse.
Failing that keep them on a register…so their new partner can easily refer to it when they wonder …what’s going on? has he history of this abuse? and know this guy is bad, alarm bells…and to stay the hell away.
Cx
Cx
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Agreed,
They save their nasty self for us, in secret…(v important part for the abuse to exist)
and if you look back in their history, usually
for the other women and children in their lives.Their extended family, are their safety net, useful to them, to bail out to , and give them an alibi of being ‘the good guy’, they will maintain that manipulation and falseness …as it saves their a*s.
He used to make a massive effort with family & friends gatherings, putting his arm round me, lots of photos to record the event..make out he was this alternative Mr Nice. I’d think wow this is unusual a kiss a smile a arm round my shoulder…then I’d see a camera! When we got home he’d switch it off, turn over & ignore me…
leaving me feeling neglected and confused…so unimaginably painful.Theyre not stupid… just cold, callous, & cruel.
I’m the opposite.. kind, caring & compassionate! : )
Id rather be me..cuppa x
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A common theme running here. All their exes have been horrible to them, mean, told lies about them. I’m now one of those horrible exes. Hahaha. Seriously tho, the one prior to this one was my husband. He was abusive too, in a different way. I hope that’s my eyes well and truly opened now!
I’ve been talking to myself today saying ‘there’s nothing wrong with you, there’s nothing wrong with you’ over and over. I think my point is I’m trying to pick myself up and start believing in me again.
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My experiences say yes, abusers are unaware that they abuse. They are convinced what they do is right.
Starting with my parents, they are not aware of what they have done. They see me as an ungrateful brat when I attempt to mention what they did. I do not say anything anymore because they are old and frail and I have little to do with them. I have to choose my battles wisely.
The abusive men in my life: They always saw me as the cause of what they did to me.
The ex-abuser-husband used to say that I made him beat me. I never knew what I did to make him beat me. I really did not.
Abusers have one thing in common: They never see themselves at fault. They are always righteous in their own opinions and many of them are above the law.
They never understand, they never realise. That’s why it is useless to place them into these programs where they learn better relationships. Those programs are a waste of taxpayer’s money.
They should rather be whipped and beaten. That is the language they understand. But tell this the governments of all the countries who pamper abusive men. They are too bland to understand this too.
In exchange they refuse to support abused women and punish us for speaking up. -
Wow I love this conversation. I totally agree with everything that you’ve all said. Mine thinks he’s superior and above everyone else he actually said to me I upgraded when I married him lol in reality it was nothing short of a downgrade. He is totally deluded with how he views himself! He uses language and a fake charm to make people believe that he’s very caring and protective over women but my god is he the opposite! Someone who respects women does not have to voice it again and again and again surely their actions will speak louder than words? No not affording to him he thinks he’s gods gift when he’s anything but! He has no respect for anybody not himself, not his family, not for me anyone. He doesn’t actually have many friends which is hardly surprising because I think deep down they know what he’s really like. His own family members behave like this too! Everyone in families know what their family members are really like but if they’re all the same how would it get revealed to you? As long as they get what they want they do not care who they hurt in the process. What a dreadful way to live! Yes this has really had such a devastating impact on us but goodness me I wouldn’t wish being the way that they are on my worst enemy! It isn’t life, it isn’t living, it’s nothing to be proud of! I would do rather be me then be a vile, aggressive, disgusting, selfish, evil, manipulative, controlling monster. I am going to live my life to the fullest and do what the hell I like because no one controls me! I control my life, my choices, who I see and what I chose to do not a (detail removed by Moderator) like him. Ladies live your lives to the fullest and enjoy every second of it!! It will eventually get back to them and will destroy them they think they’re so special and we can’t function without them in their dreams mate! X*x
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You upgraded when you married him … hahaha!
The ex abuser said similar to me as well!!!
He was a workshy scrounger and he also said that it did not matter what people thought about me (!!!) because he loved me. That was in regards of him being so good looking and me being just average and more or less ugly. That was what he wanted me to believe.
When I look at our pictures then I see a beautiful woman and a guy who is just average looking, hahaha!
I wonder what made me believe him. -
Lol that’s what he said he reckons he was warned about marrying me like can you believe the cheek of it! He said that he lowered his standards by marrying me and into my family mate I think you’ll find it was the other way round. (detail removed by Moderator) Even male family friends commented on how he was out of my league but I saw something totally different and when I realised he was a fake that’s when his vulgar face appeared. I think they tell themselves this rubbish to make themselves feel good about themselves cos they know in reality (detail removed by Moderator) Anyone who has to exaggerate anything knows in reality they the reason behind doing so is because deep down they know they’re nothing so they have to put a fake act on to feel like someone. Real men do not have to prove to anyone that they are real because their behaviour shows that they’re real. They think by abusing, beating, raping, controlling and humiliating their wives abs girlfriends makes them a real man they ain’t got a clue! Lol what you say makes me laugh so much because it’s so similar to what he thought about me. (detail removed by Moderator) X
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…hi ladies, agreed, hopefully they will get a taste of their own medicine soon!
My ex was a coward…though he could see what pain he’d created…had such beady eyes, creepy!
He was quite happy with that situation, it suited him that’s ALL that mattered
He also like to make out that he was doing me some sort of favour by being with me!the one who dumped his dysfunctional existence into my life, tons of baggage, and a history of abusive relationships…little did I know what hell was about to unfold, thanks to him and his nasty misogyny.
He seriously needs psychiatric assessment …they all need to face facts & get help, it’s no coincidence that they leave trails of destruction
These types have such similar personality traits and habits.. he was a snob…always bigging himself up, a right know all, know nothing, type!
God knows where he got his airs & graces from, I know his family and where they lived etc…I think he spins a different tales according to who he speaks to, a proper liar, who re invents himself…to cover his tracks.
In reality he didn’t have much going for him, I fact the total Opposite…Of me.. Ummm that’s food for thought!(detail removed by Moderator) wish I could expose him for who he really is! Any suggestions…apart from court?
Cx
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if they don’t know what they are doing is wrong, then why do they try to conceal what they do from other people? surely a person who thinks their behaviour is okay doesn’t try to hide it. whether they think they are justified, culturally, in behaving this way is a different matter. there are cultural sanctions for all kinds of abuses, after all. but does a person know that its an abuse? i think they do, it just becomes a matter of what they can get away with. xx
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Maybe there’s two types ( or maybe more) – the cruel “I know exactly what I’m doing and don’t give a monkeys about what it does to you” abusers who do know, and the other type who don’t – those with a personality disorder?
Is one easier to spot than the other?
With the the ones who don’t know does it take longer for the effects to show?
I have no idea but do I know we’ll never fully understand why they are such cruel, manipulative, psychopathic, evil beasts! -
I think here are those who are just too selfish and unaware- and can justify their behaviour in their own head, as they tell themselves everyone else is horrible and that they are the victims.
But you get the more malignant type of abuser, who makes it their mission to destroy you. My ex was the latter.
He wasn’t English, and in the early days he asked me what ‘gullible’ meant. I genuinely atvthat time thought he didn’t know. Over a decade later, just before he left, he asked me if I remembered that he had asked me this. To me, that was a cruel and cryptic message that so had been gullible all along by being with him and taking the blame for things, letting him get away with things, etc. How sick is that?
It’s my belief that my ex knew exactly what he was doing that has traumatised me so much.
My ex 99% blamed everyone else. Only once, did he admit he was an ‘a***ole.’ However, even then, I think he may have said it to score brownie points.
At the end of the day, they aren’t nice to be around. Any contact is toxic.
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