Just spoke to the Civil Legal Advice service – contact with children

[itwillbeokay]

Hello,

I’ve been getting more and more anxious around the fact that my husband has only seen our two very young children (Detail removed by moderator) since I left with them around (Detail removed by moderator) ago. I have taken them to see him the (Detail removed by moderator) times, and I have not taken them (Detail removed by moderator) also due to lifestyle/behavioural concerns (drinking) and threats made to me via phone messages (Detail removed by moderator).

I spoke to them and they have advised me I don’t have to take them to see him and I don’t need to allow him to see them because there is no court order in place. They have recommended we go to mediation to decide on a more formal arrangement and then, to reassure me around the marital 50/50 parental responsibility worry (so if he had them to visit and then didn’t give them back I would have to go to court to apply to get them back), we can put a child arrangement order in place to ensure they are returned to live with me after any visits. Just so he can’t do anything silly to “get me back” (as he put it) for leaving with his (as he put it) children.

I have drafted an email to him to tell him about this and have said whilst he is still in our house (tenancy expires (Detail removed by moderator) but I left because he wouldn’t) if he wants to see them we can meet halfway so he can and then once he knows where he will be living we can go to mediation to agree a more formal arrangement and put a child arrangement order (court order) in place.

Am I right/okay to send this email to him? We had arranged I would take them to see him (Detail removed by moderator) but due to a 24-hour period of (drunken I am assuming) threatening messages (Detail removed by moderator) I have not done this and we are currently experiencing a period of zero contact (following him apologising in the end and saying please don’t punish me by not letting me see the children). But I feel anxious with the way things are just in limbo, the silence, the fact I have not taken them.

Should I tell him what I have just discussed and want to do?

xx

[Iwon]

Just my opinion but why on earth are you suggesting 50 50 custody with a mad drunk who wants to hurt you. Mediation does not work with these people. You are trained after years of abuse to do anything for a quiet life. I would voice my concerns about kids safety unsupervised and I would get a free half hour with solicitor. He is using kids to blackmail you. Sorry if I sound harsh x

[itwillbeokay]

No no, what I meant by that is when I first rang the Women’s Aid helpline they said to be aware – and wary – of the 50/50 parental responsibility law if you’re married and they are named on the birth certificate (meaning if he took them and didn’t give them back I would have to apply through court to get them back). So I’m concerned about this hence the wanting to put an order in place.

But I appreciate the input very much as always. Do you think I’m doing the right thing sending the email saying what I’ve spoken about?

Xx

[freedomtochoose]

Go with your gut lovely. It was scary for me too but as long as there was no court order in place I didn’t send them to see him. There was nothing legally in place to say that I should.

I think so called professionals get really worried about this 50 50 thing. It is unlikely that you would not get residence of your kids. Just the professionals trying to cover their backs.
carry on trying to get evidence together about him.
all best
ftc
x.

[freedomtochoose]

the email sounds completely ok
to me. make sure you keep a copy
all best
ftcx

[Goldengirl]

Hi, Hun. I sympathise. He is trying to keep control and keep abuse going using your children. This is a pattern with abusers. Big advice – keep a diary of all events, every time you didn’t take them and reason why not, keep all abusive messages. Get a solicitor as soon as you can to start contact order proceedings, hopefully you can get legal aid. You will be asked to attend mediation but you can refuse due to domestic abuse. As for the email, be careful what you put in it as he can use it against you – he will say you promised this but didn’t do it (no mention you didn’t because he was drunk in his response). It would be better, if you can, to get legal representation and then go no contact. He will not be able to continue to abuse you if he can’t get hold of you.

[Iwon]

Hi sorry if my message sounded harsh. I was scared for you. (Detail removed by moderator) I was resident parent and he had reasonable access. (Detail removed by moderator) The courts frown on not doing mediation without good reason. I refused due to abuse. I kept his drunk nasty text. I agree with lady who said do not send kids unless you have order. Possession is 9 tenth of the law with kids. If they are mainly with you the law will not change without good reason. Keep diary and proof of his behaviour. 50 50 does not work in my opinion with domestic abusers as they want to hurt you with kids. My prayers are with you. Get good legal advice. Get a referral from womens aid for solicitor with experience of abusers x

[freedomtochoose]

One thing (as if you didn’t have enough to think about) – I did mediation in the end , whilst knowing that it is not appropriate in cases of abuse. However, I was very insistent we sit in separate rooms (which you are entitled to do). And the mediator went from room to room.

The reason I did it was I suspected ex would not negotiate at all, however I also knew the courts might look favourably on the fact that I had at least tried. And to be honest for my own integrity, I wanted to say that I had tried. Ex showed himself as not willing and too angry to negotiate. Because the mediator and service was there and I had insisted on separate rooms I felt ok with it. Not for everyone, but once again he showed his true colours.

all best
ftc
x

[itwillbeokay]

Hello,

Thank you so much everyone. Really really appreciate it. This is the hardest thing I’ve ever been through without a doubt, and I’ve been through almost (detail removed by moderator), I really thought that would be my lot of heartbreak for a while. I actually feel ill with dealing with all this and in a constant state of anxiety in my stomach and throat. For the first time in my life I have booked a doctors appointment about my ‘mood’. Finding it a struggle to lift my head off the pillow in the mornings but with two very young children wallowing is not an option.

I do qualify for Legal Aid they said as I had to resign from my new job leading up to the end of maternity leave as we left the area. I am looking for another job now to support us. Will the Legal Aid stop when I find work or will it continue on this case if it’s already begun if you see what I mean?

They said about mediation and that we could be in separate rooms which I would like as I cannot talk about this without dissolving into uncontrollable tears so I need to not be with him doing that. In fact I cry most days and feel on the verge of tears all the time. In spite of reading about it all a lot I still cannot understand why he couldn’t stop being verbally abusive and threatening and intimidating (mostly after drinking). I just don’t understand why he would want this for us or just think I simply wouldn’t eventually leave over it even though I kept saying what it was and that he needed to stop. I really hope the counselling waiting list comes to me soon. I desperately need it. Just trying to find a meditation app specially for emotional abuse in the meantime.

(Detail removed by moderator). I am estranged from my own (alcoholic) father which he loves to now throw at me although my upbringing was very stable and lovely with my step dad who is wonderful. My husband loves to now threaten and attack my “broken home of a family” and seems to think – as do his family – that I should have stayed for our children and put up with it I guess. Sometimes on my many dark days I agree.

(Detail removed by moderator). Oh and I updated my diary of events last night.

Presumably in mediation can I put other things in like must have suitable car seats and must not drink and drive?! I don’t think he would but you never know. I am not agreeing to overnight any time soon and I’m guessing that will be okay??

xx

[Lisa]

Hi itwillbeokay,

I’m pleased that you are finding the support on this forum useful throughout this very difficult time you’re going through.

However I just need to remind you and all users of the Terms and Conditions of the Forum regarding the discussion of details relating to a court case. Because the forum is in the public domain any discussion of a current, past or potential/upcoming court case could be viewed as contempt of court.
Whilst the forum can allow people to discuss “treatment” in family courts we cannot allow discussions on actual details of a case as this could affect the case.

I don’t want to worry you, but because your situation could potentially become a court case, I wanted to mention this before you share any further details. As a general rule you can discuss your feelings, but try to avoid sharing specific details. Please ask if you have any questions about this.

It sounds like you are doing really well getting all the information you need, I appreciate it must be overwhelming, on top of dealing with the abuse itself.

If you haven’t done so already I recommend the information provided by The Rights of Women’s website, particularly their Guide to Mediation here. On their website they have thorough guides on all aspects of Family Law, including Legal Aid.

Keep taking it a day at a time, I hope you find some support through your doctor.

Kind Regards,

Lisa

[itwillbeokay]

Thank you for the advice Lisa. Understood and I didn’t realise. Should I edit the post do you think?

Appreciate the links too, I’ll take a look tonight.

[freedomtochoose]

THanks for the reminder Lisa.
all best to everyone
ftc
x

[freedomtochoose]

Just wanted to offer some solidarity and bearing in mind Lisa’s helpful comments. I’m assuming I can say these things as my own experiences are quite a long time in the past now.

I hope I can just offer my own experience – which may be helpful
My ex refused to negotiate on children’s matters altogether in mediation.
And even with the finances he brought the wrong documents along.

So although I was frightened at the time, a part of me knew that I had only offered mediation
for my own conscience (to say that I had at least tried) and also because I considered it might
be easier to get legal aid if I offered mediation. and it was.

I completely understand that ‘difficult to get my head off the pillow feeling’. But you will get through it, honestly. I want to say to you ‘don’t be afraid of going to court (although I was often shaking) it may be the better option than trying to negotiate in mediation. In fact be aware that you can refuse to negotiate in mediation on anything you think might be better dealt with in court.

As far as the legal aid is concerned, my advice to you is, unless you absolutely have to, don’t get another job at this point. The court hearings are very strenuous and although you may have to manage with less money – your focus needs to be on your kids. And looking after yourself in this process. (sorry to sound bossy). If your circumstances keep changing you will find the legal stuff more complicated.

As far as that is concerned, it kind of looks like, your solicitor applies for a legal aid certificate for you (which will cover the children’s proceedings probably, this pays for your barrister in court etc (which you will be glad to have). At some point that certificate will run out – (i.e the money is used up, at which point she should be able to apply for another one for you for the next bit (the finance stuff).

I’m assuming the rules are the same as they were more than five years ago – but please check this as they may have changed. It used to be that if you went to mediation you could use that as grounds to be eligible for legal aid, also there was a clause saying if you had experienced abuse – you would be entitled to legal aid for a divorce and finance hearings (I was lucky to get it this way ) the detail should be on the Ministry of Justice website or check with rights of women.

Proof of abuse could be proof of going to refuge, having a domestic abuse support worker, doing a recovery course, that sort of thing…freedom programme et.c.

Hope this helps, just take things step by step.
When I was in refuge and terrified – I looked at the other mums who had their residence and child hearings behind them and thought ‘I will never be able to do this’ . But then I did, you will and you can.

Remember that you love your kids and want the best for them, show the judge and the barrister that and that will shine through (I hope). Rise above your ex. You can do it.
all best
ftc
x

[freedomtochoose]

OH, and if you are lucky enough to have a garden or allotment, that’s a good place to put all your frustrations – on the compost heap. They will all get transformed by earthworms and enable you to grow lovely flowers.
ftc
x

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