So Confused

[ICanDoThis22]

Hi there

This is my first time posting here. I started a thread on (detail removed by Moderator) for support after contacting Women’s Aid about suspected domestic abuse. I realised I’d been a victim of verbal and emotional abuse as well as coercive control. My husband would shout at me from time to time whenever he got frustrated at something (sometimes it was me, but it was also something else and I was just in the verbal firing line). He also shouted at me in front of our daughter (now (detail removed by Moderator) old) and, if he panicked because she was crying a lot, he shouted at her as well. Long story short, I left (detail removed by Moderator) ago and am staying in refuge. I’ve built my support network (family, friends etc) and his family have said I would always have their support as well.

We (detail removed by Moderator) have spoken to him to help him realise why I did what I did by leaving with our daughter. Since then, he’s (detail removed by Moderator). I’ve spoken to him on the phone and felt so comfortable talking to him about everything that I went through when I was subject to his abuse. He doesn’t blame me for leaving and is constantly apologising for what he did. I don’t think he can ever forgive himself really. I can see he’s REALLY making the effort to change because when I brought up his shouting and anger previously, he would just say that it’s what he does when he gets frustrated and he just can’t help it. Whereas now, he’s taking ownership that getting angry and shouting is a conscious choice. He’s also identified what happens to his body when he gets angry (detail removed by Moderator) and can recognise this, take time out and respond in a more acceptable way if this does happen again. He’s also specifically looked at past incidents where he’s shouted and realised what he could have done instead.
I’m leaving refuge (detail removed by Moderator), but am really torn between going to stay at my mum’s house our going back home to my husband. Our home is where our daughter has grown up since birth, it’s got her room, her routines etc and her dad will be there as well. He’s not a bad dad in the slightest, he just needs help with his anger. My mum, understandably is concerned that I’m even thinking about going back, for my (and more importantly, my daughter’s) safety. My Women’s Aid Key worker also said she’s concerned about the risk to our daughter if I go back and said she would have to contact social work to keep an eye on things if I did go back to him.
I posted an update on my (detail removed by Moderator) thread and, while posters are concerned, I feel like I’m being judged for even thinking about going back. I’ve got my support network back, I’ve got his family’s support and I’ll have a safety plan with social work as an extra contact if I need them. I can sense judgement from my mum as well…she never liked my husband (another long story that would take time to explain) and said he just couldn’t handle being a full time stay at home dad as it interfered with him (detail removed by Moderator) (absolute rubbish, but she said this (detail removed by Moderator)). He’s loved being a full time dad and he’s done a fantastic job of it so far.

I’m just so confused right now. I want to go home to where our daughter’s room is, where she is safe and, armed with the knowledge and safety plan from my support network and women’s aid, I’ll know what to do and where to go if I need to (staying hopeful that my husband will fulfil his promise to change for the better).
I just feel like, by doing this, I’m the worst mother in the world and, as some posters have said on my (detail removed by Moderator) thread, I’d be letting my daughter down by taking her back there.

[Bananaboat]

Hello and welcome to the forum, it’s a lovely supportive place. Sorry you’ve experienced abuse, it’s a tough life to live. Reading your post a couple of things jumped out, in particular you have a young baby – congratulations! The abusive behaviours often increase after a child and even at this young age, I speak from experience, the little one will be picking up tensions, cues, learning how to behave (or be controlled). I know you’ll be doing all you can to shield them but that tension in the air seeps through.

The other point is his actions in getting help – sorry to sound negative but has he? Has he actually contacted those people, is he attending sessions not just booked them. Abusers often say they are getting help, that they’re sorry, they’ve learnt their lesson, they’ll change but very rarely do and only with a lot of intensive support will they ‘get better’ and learn their faults – I.e. he wont be any different after one week.

Leaving to go to a refuge is a huge step, well done and it’s great you’ve got lots of support. My advice would be to take your time – what’s the rush to return? And if he truly cares, he’ll give you that time and space. What often happens is they push us into returning, often with promises of being better, they’ll lovebomb us to hook us back in and then it’ll get worse. You’ll never be forgiven for leaving and it’ll be thrown back at you and twisted to being you were at fault. Have you learnt about the cycle of abuse? I’d highly recommend reading two books one by Lundy Bancroft called ‘why does he do that’ and another by pat craven ‘living with the dominator’. If you have internet, look up Dr Ramani.

Abuse messes with your brain and we forgive the unforgivable / we normalise the bad times. Would you want your daughter living with a partner who treated her like this? No one here will judge you for returning, most of us have at some point, but understanding abuse helps massively. If you mum is happy to have you, why not go there for a few weeks – like I say there’s no rush to decide, even if he’s making out there is. X

[Marmalade]

Hi,
I am no expert on this at all but I couldn’t just pass by.
Firstly, it is your choice after you have advice from people around you and the professionals involved with you who know the full situation. Nobody on (detail removed by Moderator), on limited info, can tell you what to do. Lots of women go back, I did.
On the positive side you have a lot of support- family and professional and he is making an effort but this is all over a very short space of time and he has had no time for his referral to be processed or his promises to be tested.
My concern reading this is that you are saying I think, that he is the primary carer for the baby whilst you work and that he loses his temper with her. This is what I suspect will make your WA support worker go to social services should you return. (there may be other reasons you haven’t said).
Babies cry a lot, people get tired and frustrated, it’s a perfect recipe for risk.
Has your WA worker explained fully what her concerns are and offered support and advice on how to manage the risk?
If it was me, I would be going to my mum’s for a bit, seeing if he follows through on everything he has promised and working things out gradually. But it is your choice. No one on here will judge you.

[Marmalade]

Just read Bananaboat’s post and agree with everything she has said. Think we were posting at the same time

[AmethystLight]

Firstly, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It sounds like such a tough time, particularly with a little one.

You really should congratulate yourself (not sure congratulate is the right word but I can’t think of an alternative!) for recognising the abuse and getting to a refuge – the resilience and strength that takes is not to be underestimated.

You are so strong, and it’s great you have such a good support network. I’m really sorry to hear you feel that they’re judging you. I’m sure they want the best for you, but in my experience people aren’t always good at showing this in a way that doesn’t come across as judgemental. It’s also worth delving into yourself to see if your own inner shame at going back is being projected onto them (I’m not saying this is definitely what’s happening, as it does sound like they could have handled things in a better way, but I know that I have definitely experienced this and realised later my friends were completely right and deep down I knew it, but didn’t want to believe it and felt embarrassed about that).

I echo Bananaboat’s comment – reading Bancroft’s ‘Why does he do that’ opened my eyes to the core reasons abusers act the way they do. There are several places it is free to read online. Everyone should read this book, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, the book makes it clear that abusers very rarely change, because the abusive behaviour stems from a deep, core entitlement they feel to act the way they do. It comes down to their inner value system, which is something that is very hard to change in a person. Their anger isn’t an uncontrolled outburst – it’s actually very controlled, as they push it as far as they allow themselves to. This is why abuse can feature a lot of the same elements from person to person, but can also vary a lot, because each individual abuser will have a sort of code they follow, whether it’s intentional/conscious or not.

While the fact he has recognised what he has done is a good start, there is so much more work he needs to do and it would be a very long road.

The question you need to ask yourself is: do you want to spend your precious time waiting to see if he will change? The waiting to see if and when the next angry outburst will come, or whether he has truly changed, will always be there in the back of your mind, leading to that ‘walking on eggshells’ feeling we all know too well on this forum.

It’s also worth noting, again as Bananaboat says, abusers will apologise and promise change endlessly to tempt you back, and can often sound very reasonable and believable. You’re probably aware of all of this already if you’ve done research on what has happened to you. It may well seem like they have changed for a long time, but eventually they will switch back – this is all part of the cycle of abuse, called lovebombing or hoovering. This also results in a trauma bond, which is very hard to break.

Like Bananaboat says, there is no rush to make a decision on this. His behaviour was wrong, and you owe him nothing. Give yourself time, if you can, and perhaps try sharing your feelings of shame and judgement with your support network. They sound great, so opening up this conversation may help you work through it all. Take time for you and you little one, take care of yourselves and do what you feel is right for you x

[ICanDoThis22]

Thank you for your kind words of support. I’ve made the decision to go home to my husband…I spoke to him (detail removed by Moderator) and made it clear – the first sign of anger/raised voices etc and I’m leaving and taking our daughter with us.
He sounds totally different and I felt like I was able to speak to him in a way I was afraid to previously. He used to get defensive about specific times when he got angry and shouted, but he was looking at it from my perspective instead and understood that I was afraid of him. He’s disgusted in himself that he’s made me afraid of him as he never wanted that and doesn’t want our daughter growing up feeling the same.

Maybe I am naive thinking he can change, but I have to give him the chance and I can only really see that if I’m at home with him. There’s also the issue that our house is rented, I’m the breadwinner so I pay rent and bills etc so I’d rather be in the house. Husband also doesn’t really have anywhere else to go so kicking him out isn’t really an option…I know thus isn’t really my problem, but if he becomes homeless, he’s not really going to be able to look after our daughter. He’s not a bad dad (although some people would argue against me based on what I’ve said) and I want him to have a relationship with our daughter.

I’ve got my safety plan in place with WA. Marker put on our house, health visitor knows what’s happening and social Work will be in touch I’m guessing. I’m also armed with the knowledge I’ve picked up throughout this experience. Will definitely download the books you’ve suggested to my kindle as well though.

[Eggshells]

Hi Icandothis

Please consider staying in touch with the forum.

Keep a close eye on how you are feeling.

You will always have ladies who understand here.

[tiredofitall]

Hi,
I just wanted to add I understand completely your choices and you’ve clearly thought this through and have support in place.
I left my husband after the first few years of being married because his behaviour towards me was so awful. He convinced me that he had changed and I believed him and told him I’d leave again if he did anything.
Unfortunately over time, the old behaviour crept back in and by then I didn’t feel strong enough to leave again. I felt foolish and ashamed I’d fallen for it. It’s taken me (detail removed by Moderator) years to get the strength back to leave again for good this time.
I sincerely hope that it works out for you. I only offer my story as a tale not to let how you may feel about going back to him to affect any decision you make to stay .
Trust yourself and your instincts. Sincerely hoping it does work out for you all.

[searchingforhope]

You poor thing, I know the confusion and struggle for strength. Your gut will rarely guide you wrong.

The home and room you speak of are only material. You can make a loving caring environment in a place you are happy and at ease. Will that be in a place where you are knowingly returning with a safety plan?

Take your time. Let nobody rush you. DO what is right for you. I haven’t done that and really struggling with that now.

You need to be ok to care your your family x*x

[ICanDoThis22]

Thank you to everyone who responded.
I returned to my husband as I said I was planning to. I wish I hadn’t and gone straight to my mum’s house.
The shouting has stopped, he’s getting support for his anger and I’m seeing big changes in his general attitude. However, I’m still not happy. I’m very aware I feel like I’m staying in this marriage for him and not for myself or our daughter. Since coming back, I’ve spoken to him twice saying that I wasn’t happy and wanted to separate and both times, he’s talked me around. The 2nd time was worse because he kept saying (detail removed by Moderator).  The only thing I think he can do is to respect my decision to want to separate, but I don’t think he can do that. He’s done what I asked him to do when I came back (getting help with his anger, he’s taking anti-depressants now and, to some extent, giving me my space…although I feel guilty about this because time for myself is often time he wants to spend with me so, although he says he’s happy giving me my space, I know he’s not 100% happy).
I’m getting counselling through Relate (detail removed by Moderator) and have reached out to my WA key worker again for support, but I feel like I just need to tap out of this marriage. I’ve said some things that I can’t take back either, like (detail removed by Moderator). I thought this would be enough for him to let me make the decision to leave, but he’s still wanting to work on this because he said he loves me. I’m getting the feeling it’s more of a sense of control than anything else though.
Last time I left, I did it behind his back when he was out of the house long enough for me to pack bags and get me and our daughter away. He’s already worried I’ll do this again…I don’t want to do it again, but I feel like I have to because he won’t let me have a straight forward conversation with him to let me make this decision. I also want to speak with his family (mainly his mum and sister) as they were a big support for me when I left last time and give them a heads up about what’s happening and what I want to do.

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do next? I just want out now…but it’s harder as he’s not done anything explicitly wrong (shouted or had a go at me or whatever) so it’s harder to explain what my head is going through at the moment.

[ICanDoThis22]

Sorry to be a pain, just wanted to give my post a bump to see if anyone could help based on my last post?

Thanks!

[ICanDoThis22]

No longer confused, but desperate to get out! I was stuck at home with my husband (detail removed by Moderator) as we all caught COVID. We finally got out and about over the weekend (detail removed by Moderator) with family, so all was fine…however, behind closed doors, I just don’t feel comfortable around him anymore. Again, he’s done nothing explicitly wrong, but he’s constantly wanting to hug me, have some sort of contact with me (either cuddling, touching my hand, putting his hands round me when I’m doing something in the kitchen). I don’t think I have any of these feelings for him anymore…I think it’s a mix of everything that’s happened in the last year or so.
Also, the last 2 nights, I’ve had dreams about being sexually assaulted – the first was a character from a TV programme touching me between my legs then the next was a random taxi driver turned doctor or medical professional seeing to a wound I had on my knee, but I realised later he was totally naked under his white coat!

My husband is saying how sexy I look in some outfits and how he’s still sexually attracted to me, but I don’t like that kind of attention from him anymore. My sex drive has always been very low, but now that I’m planning to leave, it’s even lower and these kinds of comments and his need for constant physical contact is making me SO uncomfortable.
I spoke with a friend about this the other day and she said to wait until after Xmas as he’ll hold that against me forever, but I can’t keep up the charade that everything’s ok because I’m just drowning and am exhausted already. My mum has said I’m more than welcome to stay with her with my daughter long term, but I just need out. Planning to leave behind husband’s back again (detail removed by Moderator) as it’s the only way I can get something done…if I don’t do it now, I’ll have to wait until after Xmas and I just can’t hold on that long!

Does any of this make sense? Just looking for some words of comfort/support.

[Everhopeful321]

Hi,
Things sound difficult for you, I don’t know if I can help but I can definitely relate to some of the things you say. I left (detail removed by Moderator), briefly, behind his back as you did and came back because of promises and assurances he gave me – it seemed so clear, like he’d had his eyes opened to his behaviour and was appalled at himself but since returning, his need to control (which was always a problem) has increased ten-fold. If you feel uncomfortable, even if you can’t name it as control or abuse, everything I read on here tells you your gut is telling you to get yourself safe, however you can. I wish I could follow this advice but if nothing else, know that you’re not alone.

[ICanDoThis22]

So sorry to hear you’re going through something similar Everhopeful321. Is there ANY chance you can leave behind his back again and not look back?

I am much more aware of little things my husband is doing to gain back control like always coming up to bed with me at the end of the night (so I can’t even have a bit of quiet time to myself before going to sleep) – he used to stay up a bit later than me as 10pm was too early for him to come up to bed. It’s just suffocating!
He is on edge about me leaving behind his back again in exactly the same way as I did last time (waiting until he was out of the house long enough for me to pack and get me and my daughter out) but I’ve had to put his mind at ease telling him I’m not going to do it again as he’s done nothing that would warrant me needing to do it again (yet, here we are again).

[lover of no contact]

Hi icandithis22,

Everything that your gut and instincts are telling you to do is spot on. I wouldn’t tell him, or any of his family no matter how supportive they are, that you are planning to leave him. It’s great you have such a supportive Mum and can stay with her longterm. First things first are to get away safelyand as soon as you can. He’s really not going to want to lose the hold he has over you. The least distressing way for you and your child is to leave as soon as you can without him knowing. I would listen to your instinct not to wait until Christmas rather than your friends suggestion to leave after Christmas. I’m amazed at your strength in making this decision (as when I was at your stage with one child I stayed for another decade and a half of being controlled and abused) so trust yourself you’re definitely making the very best decision for you and your child’s well being and safety.

Keep posting and reading on here for strength.

[ICanDoThis22]

Thank you for your kind, encouraging words.
I’m reading Lundy Bancroft’s “Why Does He Do That” on my lunch break today and, after reading the introduction alone, I know I’m making the right decision to leave. Already highlighted 2 phrases/sentences:

I can make it possible for you to escape the trap of preoccupation with your partner, so that you can put yourself – and your children if you are a mother – back in the centre of your life where you belong.

and

Whether you stay or go, the critical decision you can make is to stop letting your partner distort the lens of our life, always forcing his way into the centre of the picture. You deserve to have your life be about you; you are worth it.

I hope these quotes help someone else as well maybe!

[ICanDoThis22]

So, I’m confused again after having a good evening with my husband last night. We were starting to feel close again, laughing and enjoying being intimate with each other (on top of the clothes stuff).

I took a bag with some clothes to my mum’s house when I went to pic up our daughter after work yesterday, but now starting to thing I maybe should wait until after Christmas to leave…and to actually talk to him about it…then I think about why I was going to do it behind his back and I’m just so b****y confused again!

I know I want to leave, but I just don’t know how to go about it this time and for it to be permanent!

[Discombobulated2022]

Hi @icandothis2022
Thank you for posting. I’ve read this thread from the beginning and it resonates greatly with me.
I split from mine (detail removed by Moderator). Was so focused on divorcing etc. he remained angry and abusive until I met someone else, then the remorse came, the promises.
I split from my bf (not related to him) and we’ve kind of fallen into “seeing each other”. I’m shocked to say I’m also considering going back. He too is being so complimentary and touching me all the time/ I so wanted that when we were together but now it just feels weird! I just don’t know if I’m feeling it.
I was intrigued whether you went back or not so thank you for updating.
I think the fact we’re both accessing this group asking these sorts of things tells us a lot xx

[ABALTP]

Hi, I recognise your story and it is so hard. The first time I left my husband he made all the right promises, he was kind and loving, he went to therapy on his own and with me, he made all the right noises and we made all manner of plans for our future together. I was blind to the manipulation starting again – he just got cleverer – instead of opening shouting and demeaning me, he did it more subtly to he had me believing I was cold, heartless and boring. He used the therapists language to focus in on ‘I’ statements to prove how I neglected him. He absolutely ramped up the abusive sexual behaviour from day 1 of my return and had me believe I was just broken and not working like other women. It took me years more to escape again. When I tried to leave I had months of increasingly more desperate, bizarre and threatening behaviours to make me stay and it’s only when he was arrested that he’s finally stayed away.

I just want to back up what other ladies are saying, I think it’s rare they change and if you’re gut is making you feel uncomfortable you need to go with it. My husband, even while on police bail, finds ways to regularly get into my head, they don’t give up easily. Take all the advice and support you can get. The really important thing I try to remember when I try to understand myself in all this is one of his, and probably yours super abilities is being able to put on such a kind and loving front – otherwise how did we get tied up in this!

[tiredofitall]

I’m in the process of separating so not in the same situation as you all but I guess I feel like there is no trust left. He has lied and manipulated me so much that I could never believe anything he tells me ever again. That’s no basis for a relationship and no reason to settle for anything less than YOU deserve. It’s about you and not about him. Let that be your guide. ❤️

[ICanDoThis22]

Thank you for all your replies.
My gut is telling me that he won’t change. At my last counselling appointment, my counsellor said it was sounding like I was an observer because I’m completely aware of what’s going on.
The other week, I was reluctant to tell him something that was bothering me in case he reacted badly to it. I told him, and it was fine. However, he came back at me saying that he’s a changed man, and what’s the point in him making these changes if I’m not completely acknowledging them and responding like I should (let’s forget the fact that it would be changing a habit of walking on eggshells with him). I said that I saw the changes he was making but that I would need time to change my own behaviour. He then flipped things on me and said that what I said was abuse as it’s the same as when he used to apologise for shouting, followed by “but can you see why I got so frustrated?”
Recent revelations:
He doesn’t want me to mention the fact that I went into refuge (even in passing, like “I bought that when I was in refuge”) because he already feels c**p about himself that he doesn’t need reminding of what I did and what I could do again.
He called me out on the personal alarm on my handbag ((detailed removed by Moderator) attached to the strap that makes a noise if I feel I’m at risk and draws attention to me – it was given to me by my Women’s Aid key worker when I stayed in refuge) saying that it makes his family feel uncomfortable when we spend time with them (detailed removed by Moderator). I have no idea if this is true, but I suspect that HE feels uncomfortable with it and wants to isolated me from the support of his family.
I’m not ashamed of the fact I stayed in refuge. I’m actually proud of myself for it and hate the fact he’s making me hide the fact that I did these things.
Still planning to leave very soon but trying my best to get through Christmas and New Year right now.

[ICanDoThis22]

I suppose I’m using this thread as a way to record what’s been going on. Thought this was worth noting:

Last night I was (detail removed by Moderator). My husband wasn’t able to help (valid reasons), so I was doing most of the work. I was just about finished (detail removed by Moderator), saying I should’ve done it another way like he’s shown me before (basically telling me I’d done it wrong). Of course, this made me feel like c**p so I was feeling pretty c**p for the rest of the night (not doing anything or saying anything, just feeling really low because he criticised how I (detail removed by Moderator)). He then said that he hadn’t done anything to make the (detail removed by Moderator) a bad experience, it was me and my bad reaction that made it a bad experience.

I should note, my husband always wants to do (detail removed by Moderator) (and various other things) together, and, in the past, it’s been a bad experience because he would get stressed about me not doing it a certain way…I remember him shouting at me one year because of it. I always just prefer to do these things on my own anyway.

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