Trying to understand abuse…

[Caterina]

Hello, my name is Caterina and I am a new member. I was in an abusive relationship, which I finally ended in (detail removed by Moderator), and I’m sure everyone will agree that the psychological scars you are left with do not move on the moment you are out of the relationship. I have had a breakdown, been on anti-depressants, have been to counselling, have had advice from friends, but still I carry the damage with me.

I started seeing “him” (detail removed by Moderator) ago. I’m sure much of what I will say will sound terribly familiar to others! He was incredibly charming, excessively generous and protective and attentive, nothing was too much trouble, and he quickly made me the centre of his life. No man in my past has ever made me feel more special and perfect than he did… when he ‘approved’ of me. He shared in my love of animals – we both had dogs that we love very much. Somehow this was something that made me believe he was essentially a good person. I’m sure other animal lovers can identify with that. Also we had the most passionate physical relationship I have ever had in my life, and that’s saying a lot as I am now in my (detail removed by Moderator) and I have definitely had a somewhat adventurous life.

Early on, there were signs of anxious jealousy on his part. It seemed innocuous and unthreatening in the beginning, like if I didn’t answer his phone calls with haste, or if I was out for a few hours and uncontactable, he would become very agitated. I would be besieged with messages… “Where are you?” “Are you OK?” “Why haven’t you answered my calls/texts???!” One time I came home and there he was, sat outside my house. He had raced over on his (detail removed by Moderator) after work and was waiting for me. He took his helmet off, and he was in a cold anxious sweat, panicking, saying that as it was ‘early days’ he was afraid that he didn’t know me well enough to know what ‘I’d been up to’, and supposedly worried that something had happened to me or that I was possibly involved in some sort of infidelity. As he wasn’t being threatening, but rather ‘imploring’, a bit like a child that was terrified that their mother wasn’t going to come home, or something like that, it evoked sympathy and concern from me, rather than anger or a feeling of intimidation. We got past it, and I decided at the time that I was involved with someone who had some real insecurities with trust and relationships.

This behaviour was to continue, but it gradually become more ominous and intimidating. He couldn’t tolerate me being friends with or socialising with other men, especially ex-partners. At my age I have accumulated a large circle of friends spanning years, some of who will be ex-partners from years ago on the other side of the globe, but they will all be married with their own children by now! Just because the romantic side of a relationship ends, does not mean that you do not still share things that keep you close, shared experiences from the past, shared friends… some of my ex’s will have been by my side (detail removed by Moderator) ago when my own parents died, supporting me, etc. Those friendships mean something to me.

Anyway he found all of those friendships a threat, he felt certain that there had to be some sort of latent romantic feelings in order for me to want to keep in contact with them, and he would insist that it was totally outrageous of me to expect him to accept these friendships… that ‘most men would never tolerate such behaviour’! If I ever asked any of my male friends for a favour, he would be apoplectic and insist that it was a gross sign of disrespect that I hadn’t come to him first. He clearly found it ’emasculating’.

There was no reasoning with him, when the discussions would come up they would just eventually fade, unresolved. Like when you just become so tired of trying to make someone understand something and you give up, for a peaceful life.

There was also an incident with a friend of his who he had fallen out with. I met this man and he seemed rather nice to me on the face of things. I insisted to him that they had gone back almost (detail removed by Moderator), he was his longest standing friend, that they should perhaps try and patch things up. Immediately I was accused of secretly lusting after this man! That was the sort of thing I was up against. Also one of my male friends happened to be (detail removed by Moderator). My partner would rail on about how he hated what he saw as the (detail removed by Moderator)! I would try to reason with him, and at times I would lose my temper, insisting that he was being terribly closed-minded. I would try to get him to think about and change his view. I would challenge his dogmatic thoughts. He would see this as me attempting to ‘brainwash, control and change him’! Again, these ‘discussions’ would fade away, unresolved. I kept telling myself, that the poor man doesn’t seem to have the capacity to think thoroughly about these things. That he hadn’t lived the travelled and experienced life I had. I know that sounds condescending, but it was me, trying to find reasons for why he held such intolerant views.

Then he really started to try and control me. He would basically refuse to engage with me unless I admitted to some sort of complicity, or even take full responsibility, for our differences. He would constantly twist things to try and make me feel as though it was ‘all me’, that I was disrespectful, controlling, etc. Little things like being out for an evening, going to dinner and a concert. I would be hurrying us along to get to our seats before the curtain went up, and he would later accuse me of ‘taking over’, controlling him, being ‘bossy’. So many nights out would end up being ruined by these accusations, for me anyway. Gradually whittling away at any sense of my having only positive and practical intentions.

As time went on, it really started to bend my psyche. He really started to get me to believe that there was something wrong with me. That I was quite horrid and bullying, whenever I would attempt to stand up for myself and suggest that it was his behaviour that was unreasonable. This resulted in me losing so much self-esteem, and handing over a great deal of my psychological control from me, to him.

At this stage, with me in quite a supine frame of mind, we began to discuss the prospect of living together. We had somewhat different objectives… (detail removed by Moderator) He would insist that I would “get used to it”, and would discount any places that did not tick all his boxes. I started to fear that the only co-habitating life we could look forward to would be one where we were in the middle of nowhere and I would lose a big part of my own life and independence. Yet his view of a life together was one where we would both be completely co-dependent and not need anything outside of each other. This was his idea of what the ideal relationship should be. Any resistance by me was seen as a ‘lack of commitment’.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, his protestations about my engaging in anything in my life that did not include him, became more and more nasty. He also couldn’t bear the fact that I had had intimate relationships with men before him. He would say that the mere thought of it would send him crazy! He would observe me on Facebook and question every bit of contact I had with a member of the male species, most of which turned out to be with relatives or colleagues. His reactions to me having friendships and meets without him would end up with him becoming rather abusive verbally. It was always ‘me’ that was the evil one. He even let himself into my home once, with my spare keys that I had given him, and sat in waiting for me, only to scream at and berate me when I got in. This was a time of estrangement for us, so I found it all the more unacceptable, yet he insisted that it was perfectly acceptable as I had ‘given’ him these keys and that we had been in a relationship! To me it was a gross violation of my space.

To cut to the chase, after (detail removed by Moderator), with me feeling as though I’d lost myself somewhere along the way, feeling as though someone had been trying to re-programme me for all that time and wield power over me by bashing me with accusations of being an unfeeling, disrespectful and selfish POS, I decided I could take no more.

What was to follow was horrendous. Emails calling me every filthy name you can think of (I would NEVER respond in kind – I was always monotone and business-like, which would enrage him further). Wishing me to die through the most painful and horrible disease there could ever be. I was worthless, I was evil personified, I was irredeemable. He started to threaten me in emails and texts… (detail removed by Moderator) etc, etc. I felt sick. Those words, along with frightening me, screwed my head up big time. So UGLY. The thing is, this weird control, it really gets under your skin, you start to believe what they are telling you. You think, “No one could say these things, if there wasn’t some truth in it!” Then the self-doubt takes over, and you find yourself living a life of your own self-abuse, self-loathing and self-sabotaging.

As with all relationships, we had exchanged some financial things over that time. He would take me to dinner, buy me gifts, take me out to places, but I would also do the same, as often as I could, but admittedly not to the extent that he could, because he earned so much more money than me. He demanded that I reimburse him for ‘all the money he had ever spent on me’ during our time together, to the tune of (detail removed by Moderator)! This would end up being the main source of his threats… (detail removed by Moderator) He would use all my soft targets, like (detail removed by Moderator)– things like that. He knew where to point the arrows alright. As though he was trying to strip me of any self-worth.

Anyway, the threats became constant and would become worse and worse, especially as I was ignoring them. Finally I spoke to the police, who wanted to visit him to give him an informal warning, but I asked them not to as I was afraid it would throw coals onto the fire and make him worse. I spoke to two domestic abuse helplines, who encouraged me to take out an injunction, but again I hesitated, for fear of escalating things.

I then sent him a message, telling him that he had to stop threatening me, that there was a police report number, a ‘paper trail’, and if it carried on I would take things further. He insisted that there was nothing I could do, because he had been ‘clever with his threats’, not specifically threatening violence, and that this somehow would make it impossible for me to do anything about it. I told him of the change in the law, Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015, which enabled victims to defend themselves from abuse that fell short of physical violence, and lo and behold, he finally cowered and left me alone.

So, it’s all over now. Truly the most horrendous experience of my life. He never raised a hand to me, but I do believe that what he put me through was worse, to me. I was raped many years ago when I was a young girl, (detail removed by Moderator) and although that was deeply traumatic, it did not leave me with the scars that this ongoing psychological attack left me with. I do not wish to trivialise the horror of physical abuse when I say that at all. I’m just saying, in my personal experience, this was much worse for me psychologically. But then, the rape was by a relative stranger, not someone I trusted with all my heart.

My question is, and this is the question that plagues me… “WHY?” I feel my inability to understand why a man would do something like this, makes it harder for me to move on. I’ve researched and researched about personality disorders, I read the words, I know they exist… But there is part of me that desperately wants to understand what motivates a man (or even a woman) to set out to psychologically destroy someone? I DO know that it is surprisingly not all that uncommon, which makes me even more confused. And I DO know that most men don’t even realise they are doing it! They REALLY SEE themselves as the VICTIM! No EMPATHY. How can anyone be human, and live for (detail removed by Moderator), and have NO EMPATHY. Oh yes, he loved his dogs, just as I love mine, but when it came to me, I was, as I said before, a ‘worthless POS’. And his friends NEVER saw this side of him. To them, he was a charming, kind, thoughtful and generous person. That’s all you see, on the outside. That’s all I saw in the beginning. What can make an intelligent, seemingly compassionate and caring and generous and thoughtful person, have this capacity to hate and want to destroy someone so thoroughly? I feel somehow that if I understood this better, I would be more able to move on and not feel so haunted by the memory.

I wonder what others thoughts are on this?

[Anonymous]

Hi caterina. This sounds exactly like my last ex abuser. He were all charming bombarding me with constant texts then along came all the phone calls. If he couldnt get through it were who you on the phone to babe? Will u ring me back as though it were a matter of life and death. Saying he loved me after a couple of weeks. He just wanted me with his family all the time. He tried and nearly succeeded to cut me of from my best friend who he had never met. He used to say shes no right ringing you when im here! Then he would be timing me in the pub toilets saying to my son shes been a long time. He were rushing to move in. I were flattered by this attention as id never had this before… how sad. He picked at me about the boots i wore. He said id hair hanging down from my chin. Ha. I can assure you i havent. He wanted constant reassurance i loved him. I tried ending it (detail removed by Moderator) but he threatened to (detail removed by Moderator). When i first met he couldnt do anymore for me. Putting security lights up painting garden gates on. But the latest thing were him doing my garden.. as he were (detail removed by Moderator). Big mistake. As soon as i seperated he threatened me if i didnt give him money for garden he would make my life hell. I saw a very nasty side to him he too called me every name even threatened to smash things in the garden. I couldnt believe how he had turned from the person i met…. true evil. So glad i left.

[Serenity]

Power.

They feel empty and powerless inside, yet full of rage.

They can’t bear feeling powerless and they need to vent their fury- do they find a ‘focal point’ ( us) to purge it all on.

They are able to maintain a public calm persona, because they’ve purged their negative feelings on us- by proxy. They’ve made us feel how they don’t want to feel. They’ve had their ‘fix.’

They are selfish and don’t want to feel their negative feelings alone- so want to impose them on us instead. Seeing us suffer is cathartic for them and gives them a sense of power. Some might be calculatedly sadistic, and enjoy hurting others. Other abusers are just so selfish, they don’t even consider others’ feelings and needs: their only focus is themselves and making themselves feel better in that moment.

Abuse is invariably caused by inner rage- even if that rage is cleverly disguised by the abuser as something else. Also, by pathological jealousy and envy at another’s happiness. They aren’t happy, so they are enraged if you are.

Abuse is like an addiction to them. If they didn’t abuse, they’d feel powerless and unimportant, and would need to deal with their own feelings.

They are able to do all this because they are lacking a conscience, something which normally stops people from behaving like that. They are also in denial about their own faults, as they have a fragile ego, and take any honest questioning on our part as huge criticism. Yet they disrespect us for putting up with their abuse- as under it all, they know they are behaving unfairly.

They abuse us because they think they can.

[Anonymous]

Truly evil to the core. They go around treating people horribly. It seems they never get there comuppance. X

[Caterina]

Well I’m sorry for anyone who has had to endure it. I think personally one of the main obstacles in detaching from them is, as being a compassionate person, you see the ‘f***ed-up-ness’ in them and there is part of you that wants to somehow help them heal! Mad I know. I thought, however awful I’m feeling, he must be feeling a zillion times worse, to be so unremittingly nasty and destructive. I thought, something so awful must have happened to him to make him behave this way – how awful must it be to be so thoroughly insecure and defensive. As a woman, I think there is some weird maternal part of you that can take over, and you can end up feeling responsible for them.

He was a real ‘man’s man’, did (detail removed by Moderator) (yes he did!), and all these quite masculine competitive sports, constantly at the gym beefing up, he had a somewhat intimidating presence, and used to quite easily get into confrontations when he was driving and someone had the temerity to cut him up or drive too slowly, etc. I was constantly trying to calm him down and not get so personally hetted up over your day-to-day provocations of life… “You don’t know what these people are dealing with in their own lives!”

I once got him to ‘open up’ and get him to tell me about the past, some of his most unpleasant memories that had perhaps led him to being so defensive… He recounted the fact that during his adolescence he had grown up in a ‘tough neighbourhood’ and that some boys at school used to bully him (detail removed by Moderator), and he would insist that this memory was something that had seriously damaged him. I remember thinking that, especially during the time we were teenagers (detail removed by Moderator), most of us got bullied to some degree at some point. Even I did. Certainly that wasn’t enough justification to spend the rest of our lives being brutal to others?

There is something else there, some sort of twisted messed up anger, that perhaps can’t be explained. Something that takes away empathy. It took me a long time to get away from feeling as though I was dealing with someone who was pitiful and injured, to someone who had just relinquished all responsibility for how they treat other people. For me that was the hard bit… not feeling as though I was abandoning someone who was suffering and deciding to save my own life. Interestingly when other people were around he NEVER would treat me this way, so he obviously had the capacity to hold back! It WAS a decision, not something he had no control over.

I always remember something that the writer Julie Burchill said of the son she had that she had distanced herself from. He became a drug addict, stole from her, treated her horribly. He eventually committed suicide, as he was obviously very troubled! She was criticised for giving up on him, and to her defence, she said, “I finally made the decision to prise his drowning hands from my wrist”. So many people accused her of being selfish, but I sort of understand it.

[Caterina]

I also wanted to take this opportunity to show my gratitude towards Women’s Aid, who campaigned to have Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 recognised in law. It certainly played a huge part in me believing there was a way to fight back against this abuse. I had no idea that such a law existed until I spoke to the police and was informed of it. Until then, I really believed that there was nothing that I could do and would have to just live in fear with this intimidation until my ex simply became bored with harassing and threatening me. It was truly having a horrible effect on my life, to the extent that I became afraid of even leaving my flat, and that stress took a huge toll on my health, both mental and physical. It simply cannot be underestimated – the way in which this abuse and control can destroy you from the inside out, and make you lose all self-respect. Not to mention the fact that it can often be the preamble to the sort of violence that can even end up with someone losing their life.

I may never understand fully how anyone can seek to ruin someone’s life in this way, and that it does seem to happen as often as it does, and I think that Serenity’s comments in particular on what drives people to behave in this way were really spot-on. It’s particularly surprising that people can spend their entire lives behaving this way towards others, yet still maintain complete control in every other aspect of their lives, holding down responsible careers and presenting some sort of illusion of total sanity and clear thinking to the rest of the world. It doesn’t matter how stable and independent you may think you are – no one is immune to falling victim to a clever and determined abuser!

Also to provide a forum like this for women to exchange stories with others is hugely important. I never told my friends about any of this because I was too ashamed to admit that I was involved with someone like this, for fear of being judged and being seen as a weak idiot. I was even afraid of being judged by the police! It’s something that can really happen to ANYONE.

[older lady]

Hello. For me, I just don’t care anymore ‘why’, I just want him out of my life. I used to wonder ‘why?’ when I was involved with him because I wanted to put things right; have a healthy relationship, but it was a fruitless pursuit. From your description, he wanted to disempower you and take control, so he has to close down your life. He cannot live with you as his equal. The ‘why’ is his problem to figure out.

[SunshineRainflower]

Hi Caterina,

Your ex sounds pretty similar to mine – seemed lovely and sweet and wonderful at the start, always playing the victim, ‘masculine’ hobbies, control and criticism building up slowly over time until a hidden contempt started to reveal itself. My ex was completely incapable of accepting responsibility for his actions so the only way anything was resolved was if I somehow found a way for his behaviour to be my fault. He was extremely defensive, used to gaslight me to try to get me to question my memory and perception of reality, made me text him daily ‘otherwise he’d get really anxious that I was going to leave him’ which like you I initially mistook as him being a bit needy and insecure but was really just him monitoring and controlling me. He made jokes about hurting me, hurt my body on several occasions and just said I ‘bruised easily,’ liked to scare me in various ways and I also found evidence of pathological lying and cheating. I’m not sure about your ex but I did a lot of research after my relationship ended and my ex matches up very closely to the description and relationship pattern used by psychopaths – mirroring my personality and hobbies at the start, love bombing, fast moving relationship, intense and isolated, then the abuse starts slowly and gets worse over time. At the end I realised he had absolutely no empathy, guilt nor remorse, it was extremely creepy. I realised it had all been an act and that he had never cared for me, it was terrifying to see into someone’s soul like that and just see blackness and evil. Unfortunately but predictably he is continuing to try to contact me long after the relationship has ended despite me blocking him everywhere, so the police are my next step.

Anyway, just wanted to say I can relate. You sound like you’ve got a good understanding of it all anyway. It’s helping me to attend a local support group and reading books on it to make sense of it because it’s all pretty crazy to think there are people out there like that, before this I just assumed most people were normal and wanted to find a healthy relationship, not abuse others. There are some excellent blogs, youtubers and books on it which have been helping me a lot, if you do a search in google lots should come up particularly under n**********c abuse. I’m not sure I can recommend them here (detail removed by moderator). I watch a few videos each day and it seems to be helping so I definitely recommend them.

[Bridget Jones Is Free]

Hello Caterina,

I have read a book on lack of empathy, its causes and effects on the non empathetic subjects. I am giving you the following references so you can inform yourself. I am not sure it will give you the answer you are after, as even i don’t understand still, but it may help realizing what decision is best for you regarding your attitude and beliefs towards such individuals.

Remember you can come across these individuals anywhere, at work, in social groups, among family members etc.

Simon Baron-Cohen, Zero Degrees of Empathy.

I borrowed this book from my library. The notes on n********m and the description of one particular subject called James was shockingly similar to my own husband. It’s scary.

I have read letters dating back to x which my husband and I sent to each other because we lived apart at the time due to finishing our education. It’s shocking too to see how similar it was to what you describe about your own partner. At the time though, I knew something wasn’t quite right, but I didn’t have the capacity to name it, neither the knowledge nor the necessary life experience to be able to analyze and react correctly. Those letters show however how much I was already trying to understand and “fix” him.

We possess empathy and we try to fix and understand them. That’s the crunch, we CAN’T.

I hope this book will at least offer you the information you need. I am sure there is so much more to read and understand.

I am having to “go back” into my family home, various reasons, but I dread it. I am trying to arm myself with courage, dignity and strength of character, but already I can see how poles apart my identity clashes with my husband’s. He feels zero remorse, he controls, he is threatening, I see myriads of signs of a perturbed personality in him.

Your post resonates with my experience, albeit with different but comparable examples of abusive behaviour. Try as you may, you will never be able to understand because you live in a different form of reality. You are trying to speak a language they don’t understand, act in ways they consider absurd and dangerous to their ego. Understanding would probably bring you a much needed closure. You are unlikely to find closure because nothing matches the common sense and values that energise you as a normal human being.

Have faith in yourself, love yourself, care for yourself, it’s very important, and close the door and never look back.

Bridget

[older lady]

Honestly, in my situation I didn’t see it as a lack of some caring capacity like empathy or because there is a ‘personality’ disorder. This is domestic abuse and i think it’s about status and hierarchy. At work, my child’s father is his boss’s “boy” (his words) but as a man he believes he has higher status than me and so, I would always stand second to him. My daughter, being his daughter, is actually higher up the hierarchy than I am (so long as she doesn’t challenge him). I am truly at the bottom. The fact that he discriminates in this way suggests its something else rather than a lack of empathy. I don’t think he rates empathy as a particularly important quality, actually, its not that he doesn’t feel it or isn’t capable of having compassion. I think its about asserting what he thinks his position should be and that position is superior to a woman, the statements he’s made over the years certainly suggest this. Thinking about his sexual behaviour, I would say he sees sex as a dominating act, it certainly didn’t seem to be a shared experience. He would demand and discard. He likes to think he’s one of the boys, a man’s man, but he actually seems quite intimidated by men. A woman is lower down the hierarchy, its as simple as that. He dumps his s**t on you (whatever that is) because it’s your role to mop it up. You’re a woman and he’s the man, so just shut up and do as he says…or else. He projects that he has the important issues to deal with in life and yours are subsidiary. Does anyone remember how women used to be talked about not so long ago, as the little woman, her indoors and so on. There’s a view about women, we are the ones who lack capacity, remember. So trying to give these domestically abusive dominators an ‘out’ by covering up their dominancy with theories like ‘lack of an empathy gene’ just won’t do it for me. I still think we’re battling something else that is very culturally ingrained. There have been centuries of women portrayed as standing second to the men in their lives even though women gave birth, raised families and worked alongside men. The media is rife with the placing of women in diminished roles. I remember when I first heard that we were in a post-feminist age. I looked around and I couldn’t see it. Here’s a telling statement by my daughter’s father “A man wants to be loved by his boss, and respected by his wife”. The thing is that I don’t see myself as second to him and that’s where the domestically abusive behaviour comes in. The abuse itself is just the strategy to achieve the goal.

[Caterina]

Thanks for all the comments and book suggestions! All really helpful.

I think many seek an explanation for it, because it’s such an anathema. A bit like, when you hear in the news that some woman has abused her child… We just don’t get it! How? Why? How can it be humanly possible? It goes against instinct, against everything that is human. So there is sometimes a compulsion to dig around and figure out ‘why’. Perhaps there is a similar response to examples of men abusing women. Women that they supposedly love and cherish, or at least claim to.

I’ve read a bit about the 21st Century ‘male dilemma’, where with the changing roles of women in society, men are left confused and messed up about what their roles are. There is some hard-wired need to dominate and be in control, but faced with changing values and the independence of women, they are left with some sort of identity crisis – all that testosterone that has no outlet in today’s social norms! So they become hostile, faced with these challenges to their historical male roles! Ha! That theory doesn’t exactly evoke sympathy does it?!

I think it’s a complicated combination of things, but I also think there are some personality disorders going on there too. One thing my partner used to say to me often was, “I just can’t understand why ANYONE would want to challenge me or find me to be anything other than the loving, generous and kind soul that I am!” It wasn’t as though he would occasionally become introspective after the fact and recognise that he had been abusive or unfair in any way. He would always be certain that I had somehow failed to see how fantastic he was, and that it was me who was abusing his kind self by attempting to point out that in reality, he wasn’t all that kind! And of course if he ever ‘was’ unkind, it was always ‘in response to some provocative thing that I had done’, thereby absolving himself of any responsibility, each and every time. I can’t believe I spent as long as I did trying to rationalise with this person and point out his hypocrisy and inconsistencies. It was like talking to someone who was covering their ears, going “La la la la, I can’t hear you!”

I read a fair bit about ‘Cluster B personality disorders’, and he ticked soooo many boxes. But none more than N**********c Personality Disorder. When I read that wiki page I couldn’t believe it, it was as though it was written all about him, with very few exceptions, if any. While it all made sense in one respect, you’re still left wondering, HOW did this happen? Nature or nurture? Physiological or psychological? Both? The capacity that someone can have to be so self-deluded is amazing, as well as the power they have to make you believe that it’s all you, despite how confident and self-knowing you may think you are.

So many people use the word ‘evil’. But that’s always been too simple for me, because evil implies something demonic or satanic, and to think along those lines I think requires some sort of religious beliefs, which I do not have. It seems to be the scapegoat that is often used to explain deeply bad actions that people commit.

But as someone else said here, what is the point of dissecting it all and trying to understand it – just be glad that you’ve broken away. I think the main reason we attempt to understand it all is because women can be left with such an overwhelming loss of self-esteem and guilt, as that is what the abuser does to control you, and you end up desperate to rationalise yourself out of those feelings so you can feel good about yourself again. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve asked various friends over the past couple of years, “I’m not a s**t person, am I???” 😀 I’m sure they are sick of hearing it by now.

[Ladyglittersparkles]

What an interesting read.
Maybe we are naturally curious women that find they’re behaviour interesting/curious.
So we live in hope they’ll see reason. Maybe it seemed adventurous at first but then the threat took over.
I do wonder what abusive men’s upbringings were like?
Is there some maternal craving that is unhinged?

My ex had a financially privileged childhood compared to me.
But my parents are still together and I had a beautiful upbringing.
His dad was imprisoned and his mum had to care for the young children. Run a home. Business.till he was released many years later.
I feel he had lack of love but an abundance of material possessions/holidays etc. Which continues today.
Nurture coming into play?
But like others although we can surmise, I thank my lucky stars I’m not in the relationship any more.
I do think behaviour breeds behaviour so what you see growing up becomes the norm.

[Nova]

Caterina…welcome & agreed we are puzzled.
Most women on this forum have read listened and tried to…figure them out.
It’s that feeling of having been hoovered in, as a rational rounded multi dimensional etc etc person. I feel that’s part of why we are targeted, it’s simplistic to suggest. I had this and he wanted it…it’s more a mind set on their part, Perhaps they see a sparkle a something a feeling a person, their mother sophistication, culture, money, potential, social climbing…wanting to be a part of something…they’re just not capable of.

So the only way to achieve this connection to another world, mentally and/or physically is to find someone to provide it. A big show…my prize. I’m know nag of this castle the n EVERY way, whether she likes it or not.

Knowing there’s never really going to be a connection, on their part, like its different split in the middle from fantasy and reality. Every day reminds them of their inadequacy lack of social skills lack of self.

An empty vessel ..,in many respects, void, nothing to lose …except the other, us, to give them credibility, to an audience. God forbid that’s taken away…then there really is absolutely nothing emotionally, internally, no foundation. Like actors playing a part, the expression fits…all the worlds a stage and everyone plays their part.
The less intrusion into their fantasy world, for us, being removed from real connections real world, our world…less distractions…we are brainwashed, trained repeatedly into believing they are the centre of our world, regardless of what they do say think behave punish. We give in because usually we don’t want confrontation, they know this, the glare the inner child, I want this not that, I drive fast to scare you because I’m a bully, & I can, then I’ll bombard you with your insecurities because you told me what they are, then because I’m stronger I’ll hit you, then apologise and switch back to being nice, because I know how to play this, this is my game not yours, and I’m in control, I’m going to win, not you. No one will believe you, I’ll make sure of that…because this is my full time job, it’s my existence it’s THAT important.

The drip drip drip, of abuse is administered and withdrawn repeadetly until it is the norm.

Until cracks appear, they’ve become greedy. We become more aware, time has past, we now have history, piecing together the big picture …it’s the nasty comment that got lost in something else, the smile then the dig, the is that really the man I’m sleeping with?, ignoring me, not loving me, distancing excluding, controlling and so on.
(detail removed by moderator) it’s their problem there is no fixing them, they live that life regardless of anyone. Stop trying to figure them out for your own self preservation they love that emotion wasted on them…

Cancelling out their intolerable actions, they forgive themselves, they don’t give a bleep what anyone thinks…they have ALL bases covered…alongside the pain they inflict for no reason, they don’t think they’re responsible…they project it back to ‘ the other’ work, man in the street you, their kids, whoever.
They don’t ever say thanks sorry I love you …anything really deeply sincere. Anything nice I believe they are saying it to themselves to justify & sooty their schizophrenic self. It’s complex alright!

Hugs

Cx

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