Wondering where the line is?

[starryeyed]

I’m struggling to know what to call my last relationship…do I call him my ex? Or partner – because he is still making his presence felt through contact – although have blocked him and I still have this loyalty and love to him…and maybe I still hope we can sort stuff out, or perpetrator/abuser? Finding this terminology hard because I struggle to see him as this…I wondered what you thought? Maybe I’m overthinking stuff again.

What I really wanted to ask was stuff about the intimate side of our relationship. I’m sorry to be graphic and I hope it isn’t too much to ask on here.

Our intimate life started out great – I felt truly connected to someone and it was all I could hope and ask for. I felt totally in luck and in sync with someone. However as his behaviours changed so did our intimate life in parts – some times it was great still so it wasn’t like it completely changed (which has really confused me) but some things would happen…like if I was unwell and didn’t want to be intimate he would make me feel very bad and say I no longer loved or cared about him, he would verbally and physically pester me and I found it so hard to say no…I think because of my past experiences of assault, which he knew about…so I tended to freeze. I didn’t want to do it but I did want to make him happy so I went through with it and afterwards he was upset with me, saying that it made him feel rapey and I should have just said no. I was really upset and tried to explain myself but it seemed to difficult to and I felt bad for making him feel like that.

He would want to be intimate to help him sleep and sometimes I didn’t want to be intimate because I was very tired (there were issues with him being funny with me regarding sleep) but I felt that if I said no or declined he would take it very personally and be upset with me. If I wasn’t intimate with him then he would be sulky with me and not let it go…if I tried to make the first move the next day for example then he would brush me off and withdraw. If I tried to ask him what was wrong, he would say I didn’t love him or want to be intimate anymore. It felt like it became a huge issue in our relationship. I became hesitant to make the first move and then he would reinforce this and say I never did. Sometimes I would wear underwear that he really liked, to please him, and he would ignore my effort so I would end up going to the bathroom to take it off in private and feel very silly. I also used to dress nice to go out but it was met with accusations of cheating on him, looking like I was going on a date and looks that made me feel uneasy, so I stopped making an effort so much and also stopped feeling that I could go out too.

Sometimes when we were intimate he would hold my hands away to stop me from doing anything, which at first shocked me because there was no asking and it made me feel uneasy. I did ask him about this afterwards once and he said that he just wanted him to be giving me pleasure and didn’t want anyone or thing else – even myself. If he saw me doing anything like that he would stop being intimate. He made me feel bad about having a vibrator, which I had before we got together and I barely used, and it got to the point where I felt I had to throw it away – I think it seemed like he was jealous of it. He also only never did certain intimate things to me, despite saying he enjoyed it and he knew I did…he expected me to do intimate things for him but I could count on one hand the times he did it for me and it was as quickly as possible.

He was very jealous and possessive of me – he would s**t shame other women and talk down to them about their sexual behaviours or how they dressed or acted, something that never sat well with me. He always questioned my past, made me feel I had to disclose my assaults to him and questioned how it happened to me more than once…making me feel absolutely awful and doubting myself. He threatened to kill my first boyfriend, as the experience for me was awful. He threatened to break up with me because he knew a guy (they were no longer friends) I dated years and years ago.

I am wondering if aspects of this is normal? At the start he appeared very caring and protective but then that seemed to change. I’m also not sure about our intimate life – I mean I did consent in a way because I did go through with it? I’m a bit confused and today has been really difficult with wanting to get in touch with him and feeling totally confused about everything. I feel like I’ve made it into a bigger deal than it all was.

[starryeyed]

Also is it weird that I miss being intimate with him as well?

[Good samaritan]

Our relationship started exactly the same. It was the only time we both felt alive at first the chemistry was electric. Then his behaviour changed quite dramatically once his mum came back into his life he started watching more porn I’m fact now I look back our relationship was only ever about his needs it was all when he wanted it. Even on the day I had surgery on my leg and was left with an open wound it was all about him and he would say the same things as your partner/ex that I didn’t love him or find him attractive and even accused me of having affairs several times. It wasn’t that I didn’t want him to touch me it was that he made it feel like a chore or a duty. He never made any effort and even when I felt uncomfortable he would drive to secluded places and force me to pleasure him by hand even when I was in tears and expressing that I felt uncomfortable he didn’t care how I felt he just kept saying he repulsed me which he didn’t I just felt awkward in the environment. He was very clever and courting and almost persuaded me to have sex with him and another female to prove I loved him. It’s not until no contact and him flaunting another woman into the picture as my replacement so soon after our relationship ended that his true colours have shown. I do still think of the chemistry and connection we once had. Even now I’m wondering if any of what we had was real or just a fabrication from the start. The pure evil look in his eyes the last time I saw him has put me off ever going near him again. He just looked cold and calculated. That is what is haunting me now

[starryeyed]

I can’t fully understand how the intimacy felt can be fabricated? Or am I being naive? I agree with you though, I’m wondering how much I even knew him. It’s like 2 different people at the same time. I’m wondering if he is with someone else now…I tortured myself by going on his social media earlier – I couldn’t even see much, I don’t know why I did it…and have been in turmoil and wanting contact ever since. I think I wanted to see if he had a new girlfriend. The tears and such was similar with my ex/partner too…he would kick off, I would end up crying and then he would want ‘make-up’ sex and would say it was the best he ever had. I can’t get my head around that, my misery getting him off :(. I’m sorry you went through all of that goodsamaritan x*x

[Good samaritan]

My ex never fully disclosed himself to me before we met. The first time he met my family he told us his mum and sister had been killed in a car crash and that he had no children. All turned out to be lies. He was a compulsive liar from the beginning unbeknown to me at the time he also had a criminal past. To be honest it feels like the last (detail removed by Moderator) yrs of my life have been violated by a complete stranger. Him and his new girlfriend took great pleasure in setting up a group chat on social media to show me they were in fact a couple and she was going to s**g him all over my caravan (detail removed by Moderator). My feelings had died for him some time ago but when I finally plucked up the courage to end it. He began to turn on the charm and say he still had feelings for me wanting to start from scratch he even convinced me to be friends with benefits but then out of the blue while he was meant to be away on a lads weekend I got a phone call from his new girlfriends son asking who I was and why I’d rung his mum which I had not done and that is what has led to me having no contact. I reached out to the woman on social media when I got home from work to ask what was going on and how her son got my number and she didn’t answer my question at first but instead started asking me when I last had sex with my ex and I was at work at the time and couldn’t respond straight away and she sent message after message asking me about him and if I had still been sleeping with him so I said yes but I had no idea about her. She began to tell me things that he has been saying and doing so I showed her the email conversations between my ex and myself to prove my innocence. After all it was a relief to finally see him in his true light that he was having sexual relations with other people behind my back. I told her that the affair I ended our relationship over wasn’t the only one he had had and that one of his old phones was here with text conversations between him and other people about meeting up while I was at work and telling each other what they were going to do that included messages to a man saying he would f**k him. My world has just fallen apart since. I have no clue what is real and what is true. My trust has been blown completely and I have ended up with the harassment warning even though it was them two taunting me.

[Good samaritan]

The worse part is I had actually moved on I wasn’t ringing him or interested in having sex with him again. In fact the night before I recieved the phone call from the woman’s son I sent him a text saying we need to talk face to face so that I could end it permanently with him.

[Good samaritan]

I was loving life and enjoying my new job and my freedom. I’m not sure if he sensed that and that is why they lied about me ringing her when I didn’t but they have both stuck to the same story about how her son got my number. There are that many inconsistencies in both of their reasons for talking to me it’s crazy now I look back at it. That’s why the police are now involved. Even they cannot make head nor tail of it

[SunshineRainflower]

Hi Starryeyed,

Sorry to hear you went through all that, it sounds like he was playing lots of mindgames with you, was possessive, jealous, controlling, moody and abusive. I can relate to it well, my ex was quite similar.

My ex also refused to do certain intimate things to me, and made me feel bad about my body, but of course he expected me to do certain intimate things to him every time we were in bed. I felt weird and embarassed asking him so I remembering just thinking I would have to accept it and felt sad.

My relationship also started the same way, all electric and fireworks and I thought he was amazing in bed, he started off better than all of my previous boyfriends and I remembering thinking ‘wow.’ He would be so affectionate and caress me and it felt wonderful, but by the end he was like a robot and I felt like a tool he was using to ‘get himself off’ after which he would immediately jump up and suggest we get food, it was a world away from when we first met and I was only with him for a short time. These men are clever, they know that we stay to get back ‘the man we man we met in the beginning’ but of course he never existed and it was all an act to trap us.

Also I understand about missing the intimacy despite knowing it was abusive. We become addicted to them because they use intermittent reinforcement on us. It sucks. I still miss him sometimes months and months on, but know he was an abusive (detail removed by Moderator) too so don’t really miss him, just the fake him that I was falling in love with. Like you said, it’s like two different people and really messes with your head. On top of that, all humans need connection, love and touch, intimacy and affection feels wonderful so we miss it even though we had it with abusive men – we want the affection back but not the abuse.

Good Samaritan, I think my ex may also have had sexual relations with men behind my back too. He used to tell me these weird stories about mysterious ‘friends’ and one of them was about two male ‘straight’ friends who apparently ‘got eachother off’ and their girlfriends didn’t know. He repeated the story twice whilst watching my face for reaction (pretty sure I was the girlfriend who didn’t know). Another weird story was about how a friend suggested he ‘talcom powder his balls’ which sounds so funny but it made me think ‘why on earth was he having a conversation with a friend about that,’ where were they both naked and showering together apart from perhaps after the gym, but even then it seemed weird to me. He also mentioned dogging and I fear he used to do that too. It’s all so awful and devastating. It’s months since I left but I have decided to go and have another STD test this week as I have been worrying about it again. It’s so horrific to think of what these men were doing behind our backs when we loved them and thought they loved us back.

[SunshineRainflower]

P.s Just use whichever language feels ok for you, I still feel weird calling my ex ‘my abuser’ but maybe one day I will. Also, if he continues to contact you, do report him to the police and show them evidence, I reported mine for harassment and thankfully it stopped after he got a warning.

[Good samaritan]

When I first found the texts in his phone I did confront him about them and he dismissed my concerns and just said it was banter among the industry he worked for and he was home most of the time apart from the rare night out to play snooker so I never had any reason to doubt him at that point. It wasn’t until our relationship ended and I had kicked him out that I had taken some of his essential possessions ie birth certificate driving licence that I overheard him conversing with another woman who was telling him she had heard a rumour about him going off with a transvestite one night. That really made me concerned for my sexual health. The woman who he was on the phone to at the time is now his new girlfriend who they made out I had rung when I categorically hadn’t. She befriended me when I reached out to her to tell her I had not rung her and asked how her son had my number. She kept asking me if things were true that my ex had told her about when we were last intimate and things about his past. It felt uncomfortable but also somewhat of a relief that I could talk to someone who had also been on the receiving end of his lies of sleeping with someone behind their back and lying about it. I found myself opening up to her about things I had never spoke about and she seemed pleasant and understanding and said no man would ever stop her talking to anyone or make her feel so worthless. She told me she had blocked contact with him but then my ex would start ringing me and asking me things like he was trying to validate himself and justify himself and bombarded me with messages calling me a liar and saying I was slandering and harassing him and he was going to get the police and solicitor involved. His new girlfriend would reassure me that I was going to be OK and that I had my family to support me and no man was worth the way I’d been made to feel. My ex got more and more abusive toward me and turn up at my parents home and into local shops even driving erratically looking for me each time becoming more menacing. He would ring and leave messages like he was two different people in one he was saying he didn’t know who to believe me or her and had to go private for counselling then in others he was saying I would come off worse and he was going to discredit me because he had all the messages I had sent her.he would then asked if I had told her he had raped me which I never had I never mentioned anything to her about our sex life it was her that approached the subject by telling me he’d said I was rubbish in bed which made no sense because most of our arguments were because he said I’d stopped touching him like I used to in the beginning and he was always wanting it no matter how I felt or if I was ill. I always satisfied him even when forced to in uncomfortable situations. Someone sent me a screenshot of them commenting on each others posts so I sent her the screenshot of it and said so much for having him blocked and I blocked her and never made contact with her again. My head is so messed up with it all she was telling me they were not together but he wanted to be with her. I told them both to get on with it and to leave me alone if that’s what they wanted. She then contacted me from her friends profile and said that she was with him the last time me and him spoke and that she could afford a solicitor and was taking me to court and when I showed my daughter she messaged the woman and told her to leave me alone and that I wouldn’t even be in their business if it wasn’t for them both lying. Then she began to tell my daughter that she didn’t have a problem with me and that she had apologised to me about her son something she had never done. Then at the weekend my ex rang and tried to talk me into meeting him and said he was done with chasing and he was going out with a mate and if he pulled he pulled and then rang me again asking me to meet him if I wanted to prove myself (I didn’t) he then messaged me afterwards saying that I had told his girlfriend about him ringing me which I hadn’t and I told him that and asked him to leave me alone. He kept saying he wanted to see the entire conversation between me and her because he didn’t know who was telling the truth. I told him it wasn’t up to me to prove anything to him and he just got angrier and started driving round looking for me so I set off to my daughters where I felt safe and only by coincidence as I was going there he was driving towards me and screeched the car up stopping me in my tracks demanding I show him the messages he tried to forcefully take my phone which I managed to keep hold of and lock myself in the car. The police were called by him myself and witnesses and said instantly he was in the wrong and the could clearly see that the scratches I’d given him were self defence to stop him taking my phone and they told him to go he wasn’t doing himself any favours. An hour afterwards he sent a message saying he just wanted to see the messages no apology no remorse. Then the next day him and his new girlfriend added me to a group chat with her son and the friend calling me pathetic and telling me to grow up and stay out of their business and unlike me his new girlfriend had shown him all the messages and he could trust her. The next day I got a harassment warning. My head is absolutely frazzled with it all and I feel as though I’m going insane.

[KIP.]

You have the power to choose where the line is. However, if it was me he would be an abusive dangerous ex. Absolutely no contact. Change your number block him in everything and come off social media all together for a while. Abusers leave us confused by their behaviour. They just don’t live by the same rules. They lie, cheat, manipulate. He has already involved the police and lied to get you a harassment order. Any contact with him is dangerous and he can use it against you. Do not believe a word he says. He’s obviously lying to this other woman too. With them it’s all about keeping control. That’s why they are most dangerous when we try to end the relationship so be very careful x

[freedomtochoose]

Just a few thoughts from me on this to offer.

I am still wondering about my previous partner and trying to work things out. Trying also to come back to the choices I made, which were very different from other relationships I had been in, years ago.

From early on, I was very clear that I didn’t want to move in with this person, didn’t want to get married, didn’t want anybody’s name on my bank account, or rent contract. I haven’t changed on that, and not sure I ever will.

So I had what I thought was a ‘lively’ sex life with this person. But on my terms. I also (and this was the bit that I enjoyed most!) – sometimes made meals with them, did the gardening together e.t.c

But I became aware that there came a point where – when they seemed to want more – (?) a certain resentment emerged on their part – and they became argumentative, not wanting to calmly accept what I did or didn’t want.

Basically, I always put my child over and above the relationship with them and for the past year I only saw them during times when I didn’t have my child.

There were ‘red flags’ early on in the relationship – for example they were quite happy to have sex without contraception – and didn’t make efforts to speak to me about it. So I took myself to the relevant clinic and had a coil fitted, and actually as a mature woman that was quite an empowering experience. Now I look back at the early days and see that if I had become pregnant – I am sure this ex-partner would have welcomed it as it would have brought a greater dependency.

I am trying to hang on to the healthy bits of all this and connect to an earlier life when I felt younger and happier. I don’t think it is at all wrong to have drawn my boundaries like this. I am aware though that I was perhaps testing something out – maybe seeing what my boundaries were. Looking back I am sure that there were potentially emotionally abusive elements in that relationship – for example I always felt I couldn’t rely on them – as a friend – and so the last times we had sex it was as if I had distanced myself. I held their hand in the morning – they told me they loved me – I said nothing. But inwardly I was thinking it was a good night but I don’t love you, and I’m sure you don’t love me, because I don’t think you understand what love IS.

And that’s important I think – because for me it is now about the things that are worthwhile in life. And a lot about caring. That might seem blindingly obvious for some women – who maybe have never experienced an abusive relationship but for those of us who have had to navigate something like that – maybe it is a question of treading a path we have never trodden before.

Yesterday I found myself really missing a female best friend that I could have hashed these things through with. It is so important, also for future generations, all those questions around what consent is, and what people’s needs are – and if they are respected. I don’t currently have a female friend as due to what happened I had to distance myself from many people, but hopefully for those of us on this board maybe this is the connection. On the whole I know I feel a lot safer in a relationship with a bloke when I can refer back to a female friend to check something out.

I am trying also to celebrate the good things. Recently for example someone (a bloke) offered sex – (not in an awful way – just very straightforwardly) – I answered assertively – saying no thanks – and the conversation was overheard by the woman behind the bar who asked me about it afterwards. It was kind of solidarity – and I think she liked the way I had dealt with it.

That may sound a bit off topic, but for me it is connected with all those feelings I have around the thread topic

“wondering where the line is?”

“the line” being for me – feeling safe, wanted, respected and inspired by a sexual relationship (if i choose to have one). Just generally feeling free. Which is a tall order in this society I think.
all best
x

[starryeyed]

Freedom, I also had a similar experience with my ex/partner in relation to the contraception. When we were first intimate, I made it clear to him that I was on no contraception and we would have to use protection (not to mention for our own safety from STDs too) but when we were intimate he would start by using a condom but then take it off as we had sex and it was really hard to say no. I had to take the morning after pill a few times and then I also had a coil fitted. I don’t think he really cared about the impact of pregnancy – maybe he too would have welcome having a child. He also told me his previous partner had an STD and I don’t know if he ever got checked – I went several times in our relationship and wanted to be clean and safe but I’m not sure if he ever did.

I also feel better, as you say, being able to speak to a female friend to hatch things out. And my ex/partner really didn’t like this at all, I shouldn’t ever speak to friends about our relationship, it was private and I should only speak to him – as he only spoke to me about us. Apparently it wasn’t normal to speak to friends about things related to us. I wonder if this was a way for him to keep me quiet, drive me further away from my friends and isolate me.

I totally agree with you – feeling safe, wanted, inspired. I want to be listened to. I think that feels like one of the hardest things with my ex/partner…he would either ignore me, change the topic or outright tell me I was controlling him/he didn’t have to do anything anyone said .etc. I ended up not really speaking. I wouldn’t have said I had particularly low self-esteem before this relationship, but now I am second guessing everything – he always said I should stop analysing stuff so much but now I find myself doing exactly that 🙁

I don’t know if it is generation where consent seems completely marred. Some people seem very hot on it but my ex/partner and some of his associates/friends…made it into a joke. He knew my thoughts on it and made me explain my experiences to him…so he knew how I felt, but yet he would still say remarks that I found unsetting and unsettling. He told me at the start that his friends made rape jokes and we talked about it and he said he understood they weren’t funny and appreciated I didn’t find them amusing…I believed he didn’t find them funny. So why keep mentioning them to me…and then say things like he would hit a woman if they hit him first or was provoked.

Sorry to whittle on about these things. Found this weekend particularly hard and not sure why x*x

[starryeyed]

I didn’t mean clean – I meant to write clear, sorry about that :3

[Tiffany]

There really is an instruction manual for these men out there somewhere isn’t there. These experiences could have been written about my life with my abuser. Refusal to use contraception. All responsibility put on us. Removing condoms during sex. Being upset when we don’t want sex, then withholding and sulking when we try to make the effort. Dressing up and getting ignored and dismissed. Not that men should always want sex. But it’s the way they turn you down. No apologies, no acknowledgement of our efforts. And then having the cheek to tell us sex feels ‘rapey’ after they coerce us into having it, so when we genuinely want it and initiate then they can refuse it to us. Messes with your mind so much.

[Good samaritan]

I think my ex had a serious sex obsession. He never stopped watching porn never left me alone and was having affairs which I only found out about afterwards. You’re right it really messes with the mind especially when they make no effort to make you feel sexy let alone aroused with genuine passion. Totally dismissing your efforts to make them feel wanted and loved.

[Author]

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