SunshineRainflower

[SunshineRainflower]

Also, has anyone had EMDR for CPTSD? My understanding of EMDR is that it’s good for if you’ve had one or a few specific traumas that are causing flashbacks, but it’s not really designed for longterm constant emotional and psychological abuse?

[SunshineRainflower]

I can really relate to this, I’ve been thinking a lot about my past recently remembering all the fun I had, all the dancing, the travelling, kissing handsome men lol. I feel especially sad at the moment with all of the covid madness wondering if I’ll ever be able to connect with people again in person, make new friends and meet a loving partner. I also feel sad for young people growing up in such a dystopia.

Also, I was like you, attracting lots of men. But they were usually the narcissists and psychopaths. I realised recently that attracting attention maybe seems to mean we’re more likely to attract the bad ones and end up with abusers or alone, because I know a lot of women that didn’t get that attention but are now happily securely married. I think it’s partly if we were brought up with the belief that our looks would get us a man, so we ended up attracting men who only valued us for our looks, who saw us as objects but never really ‘saw’ us as the loving, wondering, talented amazing women that we are.

[SunshineRainflower]

The red-flagger I met recently actually accused me of ‘overthinking’ – a big red flag in itself not to mention kind of patronising. As soon as he said it I thought ‘oh hang on a minute’ because I remember when I first joined this forum, women here told me that them telling us we’re overthinking is usually a sign that they are gaslighting us. ‘Overthinking’ usually means that you’ve noticed odd things/red flags and they don’t want that of course so they try to convince you that you’re imagining things/being paranoid and should just go back to the previous stage of trusting and believing him rather than trusting your gut!

[SunshineRainflower]

Haha it’s such a funny song isn’t it, thought it would make people laugh and remind everyone of their worth 🙂💛🌍🙏🌱

[SunshineRainflower]

No I wasn’t offended at all, I’m glad I shared it on here as it was a really unnerving, confusing experience especially with him turning around at the end and basically telling me I’d imagined his interest in me after everything he did and how flirty he’d been. It was horrible because it made me question everything I’d learnt about men, about flirting, and dating, and boundaries and relationships on top of also feeling rather foolish, old and humiliated, which I can’t help thinking is exactly how he wanted me to feel. I thought if this man just wanted to be friends, how on earth do men act if they are asking me out on dates and wanting to be more than friends because I thought that’s exactly what he was doing.

Yes, I’ve noticed they have this weird unnerving smile, that is actually them laughing at us whilst pretending to be smiling with us if that makes sense. I remember once I showed something to my ex and he got this weird fake smile on his face and looked like he was laughing at me, whereas when I gave this same thing to other people to look at they wouldn’t have a big grin on their face nor would I feel they were laughing at me, they’d look at it with interest and respect and ask me thoughtful questions about it.

I noticed the exact same weird fake smile/hidden laughing at me with this guy when I gave him an object to look at. He then made a comment that seemed sort of a compliment but was actually a put down, something these types of people always do and it often catches us off guard until we process it later. They hate us being good at anything, or being happy and joyous so they always try to sow seeds of doubt, make us question ourselves, and try to ruin things we enjoy.

I don’t think I did actually override my sixth sense, because initially I didn’t actually recognise the big grin etc as a red flag, I thought it was flattering. But once I clocked the red flags I then tuned in and went with my gut. It just took a few days for it to click that I was seeing red flags which I think is often the case, it’s why we date as it’s difficult to get a feel of someone from just a short encounter although it can give us some big clues which are helpful.

I definitely didn’t enjoy the feeling this time, it made me feel so confused and disorientated and I really wanted my energy and concentration back. Thankfully as soon as I figured him out that dizzy feeling evaporated and it was like I woke from a trance, a spell, like you say I was bewitched. It has been a really good reminder of what not to look for in a partner, a reminder of red flags, and a reminder of the kind of feeling I don’t want to get around someone.

[SunshineRainflower]

I don’t think you’re overthinking anything, in fact I tend to see the word ‘overthinking’ as a red flag in itself as it implies that we should be dismissive of our thoughts and ignore our gut.

I actually think this guy has a lot of red flags. I think you’ll see that soon too but you maybe got a bit blinded by the initial stage which seemed positive:

1. Friend of a friend
2. Already spent time with him socially and he seemed ok
3. Had things in common and you enjoyed chatting to him at first

Unfortunately after that he:

1. Made sexual innuendos (assuming you mean these when you say innuendo)
2. Wanted to drive to yours and stay at your house
3. Was full on and intense, highly sexual and ignoring your discomfort

I’m not a prude either, but I personally don’t think there’s any such thing as ‘normal sexual banter’ between the opposite sex if you are straight, unless you went NSA sex. I personally find this kind of thing super uncomfortable because I find it disrespectful. I have a rule that I only talk about sex to a man I’m in a relationship with, or to women I’m friends with, not men I don’t know or even male friends because I don’t like that kind of boundary blurring.

To me it sounds like he made you uncomfortable, and you even said you had to pretend not to notice the innuendos, but then by the end blamed yourself for the discomfort that his boundary-pushing behaviour caused. I can totally relate to this, and did the exact same thing with the guy I mentioned on my thread. I also felt uncomfortable with the intense stare, and the glinty eyed grin, but because of other initial seemingly positive things I overlooked them until the red flags became too big and too many to ignore.

I personally don’t think you should meet this man, who sounds like he wants to drive to your house to have sex. I think your discomfort at his behaviour is the biggest sign that he is pushing your boundaries. You just have to listen to that discomfort, not discount it, and not let any initial positives overshadow later red flags. I know it’s hard because who doesn’t want to meet a good man, make a connection and form a happy partnership. I know quite a lot of women who are in stable, healthy marriages and what I’ve noticed is they never went through this super intense, full on, whirlwind stage – their relationships were calm and stable from the start. It might not seem as exciting, but it’s healthy and it’s real love which is long lasting and much more worthwhile.

[SunshineRainflower]

Nope, I am so so so so SO glad I broke free. I can’t even tell you how much. It is literally a lifeline, since these men kill their partners on an alarmingly frequent basis. When we get out, we have a chance at life, to taste freedom and peace and joy yet again and it’s the best feeling in the world.

[SunshineRainflower]

Wow Camel thanks so much for writing that. It’s funny because over the past few days I’ve started to come to the same conclusion as you, and have the uneasy feeling that this man is worse than just ‘a player,’ I think that like my ex, he is probably a psychopath.

I know that word gets overused, but I only use it for one of my exes, plus a female colleague I met a few years ago. Both my ex and the female colleague had a remarkable amount of similarities, but I got drawn in by both because the platonic nature of the colleague relationship meant I failed to recognise the same behaviour in my ex when I met him. It’s only in hindsight I can see how they both behaved in a very similar way, and I even remember joking to the colleague that it was like she was targeting me to date me even though we were both straight. But that’s exactly what it was like – an intense, very fast moving, instant friendship that started off with her idealising me (love bombing, charm and rushed attachment) and was seemingly ‘incredibly similar’ (mirroring) and by the end she was criticising me, mocking me, laughing at me, gaslighting me and then she stalked me for at least two years when I went no contact, contacting me on different social media accounts, calls to my house, emails etc. I remember being quite scared of her and knew I had to go full no contact because I considered her to be frightening and unhinged with a complete lack of empathy from the things she said and how she’d treated me and other people.

I realised this recent guy was very similar:

– An instant feeling of a ‘connection’ and like I’d ‘clicked’ with someone and that we ‘just got on so well’ (which I’m now realising was him using immense charm on me as well as mirroring)

– Because of the above plus me finding him attractive, I let my guard down fairly quickly. I actually felt like I was in a sort of trance. I’ve heard people mention this before, it’s almost like they hypnotise us, and that is exactly how I felt. I came inside after meeting him and lay on the floor, feeling completely dizzy, that my brain had been highjacked and like I’d ‘fallen in love.’ And that feeling never left until I started to wise up to what was happening. As soon as I wised up, it’s like the trance just dissolved and I just didn’t trust him anymore. I smelt a rat and it felt very similar to when I started to get suspicious about my ex. The difference this time was that I knew I would never put myself through that again where I’d believe a man over myself, so I went with my gut this time and called him out and knew my intuition would be right, even though he’d never admit it.

– I remember thinking I felt like I’d lost my mind and needed to put up boundaries with him, because I noticed that he was trying to manipulate me early on with the ‘I’m not very good at that, maybe you could help me’ poor me comments. But I felt really drawn to him like a magnet and also felt guilty not replying, because he’d sent me a double message when I ignored him the first time. Plus he was younger, and said he just wanted to be friends, so I felt sorry for him – which is a classic sign you’ve met a psychopath, because the number one thing they try to invoke is pity!!!

– I also think that having been single for several years and having healed a lot, my heart is tentatively open to love again, and so I thought ‘well why don’t you give this a chance’ trying to be open minded, which made me much less cautious than I’d usually be.

I am so so so so SO glad I listened to my gut this time. It was so difficult, because I was enjoying talking to him and he was promising me all sorts of things. Unfortunately I did tell him quite a bit about myself such as things I liked to do ( a big regret now, and it shows that although I’m doing well in my healing, I’m still not fully there yet), and he’d then suggest we do all the activities I enjoyed, all within the first week of meeting! He suggested several future events too.

It all sounded great, BUT, due to the millions of hours I’ve spent watching youtube videos about narcissists, psychopaths, manipulators and abusers as well as the books and blog pots I’ve read on this topic, I found my brain go ‘hang on, that’s future faking’ (a term from a great highly recommended dating blog called Baggage Reclaim) and ‘hang on, he was really charming, that’s a red flag’ and ‘Hmm, he seems to be trying to manipulate me into going to his bedroom’ and ‘ This is all moving very fast, and whether ti’s romance or friendship, no normal relationship moves this fast.’

So basically, all that time digesting that info is worth it!! So please anyone reading this in a similar situation to me feeling from abuse, do it too, because it will help you learn all of the red flags and they’ll pop up in your head the next time you meet a manipulator. I’m so glad about this because I used to worry I was wasting time reading this stuff and that I’d still get drawn in again, but clearly it gt into my subconscious and this time it was there, like an armour, and it pulled me out of the trance before I got too involved.

Another strange thing is what happened to my body. I became depressed, anxious, drained, I felt envious, and exhausted, and I couldn’t think of anything but him 24/7. My productivity plummeted, I missed three commitments as I was so tired, and I wasted hours not being able to concentrate, plus hours messaging him. I started waking up early, and felt sick. I thought ‘hang on, this is how it felt at the end with my ex’ and starred to connect that it was being around this person that had this very negative effect on my mind, body and soul, something that took me months to figure out with my ex by which time a lot of harm had been done. So always listen to your body and how it’s reacting around someone. If you feel very drained and sleepy, that’s a sign.

Finally, there was this small voice in my head that pointed out that it was not exactly a great idea to go round to this strange man’s house after just meeting, even though he was. neighbour. I found this entranced part of me wanting to make excuses like ‘with all these lockdowns how else will you ever meet anyone’ and ‘well he’s just a neighbour and he seems lovely’ and ‘you can’t blame all men for the sins of your ex!’ and ‘well it’s only to do the hobby’ etc etc. But I couldn’t shake the feeling it wasn’t a good idea, so thankfully I delayed it and then never went, phew.

By the end I recognised the gaslighting too – for example when I asked a couple of questions, I could sense he didn’t like them and he’d then pretend to not understand what I’d asked. I then rephrased it and he answered in a weirdly defensive way. This is a textbook sign that you’re talking to a bad character and to get well away, as it’s them trying to teach you not to ask them certain questions so you end up treading on eggshells. It’s them indicating that you are to believe the narrative they sell you, and not ask awkward questions.

I clearly am still a bit vulnerable to these sorts of people, and I’ve been thinking about that recently. My vulnerabilities are:

– I’m lonely
– I lack local friends to meet up with
– I’m codependent
– I’m probably a bit of a love addict where I love romance as an escape from my problems
– I’m unhappy with where I am in life especially in terms of my career and my friendships
– I lost a lot of my social activities with the lockdown and I’m not sure they’ll ever return so that has lead me to feeling depressed and at times despairing about the future because how can I make fiends and have a full life if it’s illegal to do social activities and there are no groups running

In short, he felt like a shortcut to a lot of my problems, and combined with his good looks, charm, shared hobbies and local location I found myself thinking ‘wow how lucky is this that you met him!’ Thank goodness the sensible part of me that watched all those videos was there to pull me back to reality and to safety. What helped me tune into myself was daily walks and daily journaling. It meant I couldn’t escape my doubts. I promised myself after my ex that if I dated again I would journal, and I can’t recommend this highly enough. It was so helpful this time.

I love her (my intuition) and I love me, for doing that for myself.

[SunshineRainflower]

Hi Strong, I don’t really have any advice but I just wanted to reply saying I’m sorry you’re going through this and how difficult it must be. I didn’t have children with my abusive ex but I can see how that can keep us attached to them long after the day we want anything to do with them.

Is there any way you can detach from his opinion, ie if your child isn’t engaging on FaceTime calls with him then tough, not your problem kind of thing. It’s not your fault or your child’s fault if she’s too young to engage with him on the phone. Maybe she even picks up his character and doesn’t like him that much which is again is his fault not hers. Also, you’re the child’s mother so you get to choose how she dresses not him. I’m sure you dress her perfectly fine and he’s just trying to find a way to make you feel bad.

Do you have any kind of support worker who can help you navigate contact with him better so that he’s not able to use it as an opportunity to manipulate and hurt you further?

I know you feel beaten but you’re not. You’re a survivor and it won’t always be this difficult. Can you find a way to reconnect with your inner strength? I do this with things such as yoga, walks in the countryside, journaling and meditation. Being around abusers is draining and they make us think we are weak when all we are is temporarily disconnected from our light and our inner strength. Once we realise this we can reconnect with it, it’s always there within us and never goes.

[SunshineRainflower]

Ah thanks ladies I have been feeling so foolish, down and humiliated by this experience and felt silly sharing about it on here but I’m glad I did because the insight of other women is always so invaluable, especially women who have experienced abusive/manipulative men like I have.

Wants to Help your comment about the cougar made me laugh, that was my impression I got from him from the start that he was definitely interested in me, although at that point I hadn’t figured out it was only sex he wanted. Because we had shared hobbies, instantly seemed to click, got on well and seemed to have a mutual attraction I thought he was interested in dating initially, and that’s what let my guard down, but over time I started to feel suspicious and think he was just after sex. For him to then turn around around and say he only saw me as a friend was awful because it made me question my own ability to read signals as well as making me feel old, ugly, stupid and rejected. Like most women, I’ve got adept at reading signals from men after one too many uncomfortable experiences where men became sleazy towards me (such as male colleagues). I learnt to pick up early signs of interest so that I could make it very clear I wasn’t interested because I don’t like men asking me out when I’m not interested, it’s awkward and cringe worthy. Same with dating, I’ve been on dates with men who clearly weren’t interested in me and it saved me heartache by ending those attachments early rather than fooling myself that someone liked me when they didn’t.

Everything about this guy’s behaviour screamed ‘interested’ to me so it feels like he’s gaslighting me saying that no apparently all of that was just because he wanted to be my instant super intense best friend. Gaslighting is so horrible because it makes us doubt everything we’ve ever known, doubt our instincts, our memory, our ability to read signals, to interpret things and read between the lines. If a man I’ve just met is flirting with me, messaging me a lot and asking if I want to meet up 1-1 and do activities together and go to events all within a few weeks of meeting, I’m definitely going to think he’s interested. I’d never in a million years act like that towards someone I had no interest in because who does that? Why bother? It really messes with your head and leaves you feeling bad about yourself.

YellowBird I totally agree, I sometimes feel like a foreigner in a strange land who has to really listen and tune into new people because what’s obvious to others isn’t initially obvious to me. I have several times got carried away with flattery and charm when others could clearly see the guy was a scoundrel. I think I just feel so flattered and the attention they give me is like a high, I mean it literally gives a dopamine high and makes me feel dizzy. I’ve realised that no matter how many times people tell me I’m attractive etc, I always feel not good enough somehow, and insecure, so men who turn up and are super keen are like a drug for me. I have been working on self care, self acceptance, self love etc since my ex but it’s clear I’m still not there yet and have some weaknesses around flattering, charming men rather than seeing through their nonsense and getting my self esteem from myself.

It has been quite a good test for me to see where I am in terms of my healing. To be honest part of why I feel low is that I’m a bit horrified with how quickly I got sucked in, and unfortunately I told him quite a lot of personal stuff because I found him easy to talk to and initially thought he seemed like a really nice, interesting person. I know that I shouldn’t overshare with new people but for some reason I made that mistake again this time and I need to deal with that and prepare to protect my boundaries and personal information better the next time I meet anyone (including friends).

Like a lot of people this whole lockdown situation has been bad for me because I initially lost my volunteer job and a hobby group and was put into enforced isolation for months. The day I met him I’d been out to do one of the things I used to enjoy and it was closed and I was feeling sad and frustrated that so many of the things I used to enjoy have now been taken away from me, that I have hardly anything going on in my life anymore and hardly anyone to do activities with, and I can’t just join a new hobby group/volunteering because most things are just not happening anymore. I was so happy to stumble across someone who seemed nice locally with shared hobbies I was delighted to have him in my life, including just as a friend. It all seemed so positive at first, sigh.

In short, I’m lonely and unhappy and very worried about the future and he turned up seemingly able to offer me solutions to this. Now that he’s gone I’m back to where I was, just feeling even more lonely and a bit more foolish than before.

I know that although a good partner is great, the solution to my problems isn’t a man. I know this but I sometimes forget it, because when an attractive man turns up it’s difficult to not want to jump into a romance. But, I’ve realised I use romance as an escape. What I really need is to make my life as best as I can. I’ve been feeling so low about how to do that with all these restrictions and sometimes it’s difficult to not despair.

But I won’t give up, I’m a survivor and I will one day thrive again. He’s done me a favour actually because I’ve woken up from that spell of infatuation and I can think clearly again, and will start taking baby steps again towards improving my life.

One other thing I wanted to share before I forget was, I remember when I met him I felt a lot of sparks, like instant chemistry. I’d not felt that since my ex. Before I always used to think spark = good but I remember reading somewhere from a woman with a history of abusive relationships who said she’s learnt to run in the other direction when she feels a spark now, because it means they are similar to your primary abuser. I thought this was sad but it stayed with me and I actually remembered it with him, I thought ‘doesn’t the fact that I felt all this chemistry actually mean he’s probably not good for me?’ I think the woman who said this was called Pia Mellody if anyone wants to look her up, she’s an author and speaker on codependency and love addiction and I’ve found her talks helpful, she has a good one on youtube about self esteem.

I also read a good quotation that said ‘a player is like a firework, and a good man is like a fireplace!’ It made me laugh and I thought how true that is.

[SunshineRainflower]

Thank you Lifebegins. I’ve been thinking he was basically just seeing what he could get, being deliberately ambiguous in both flirting but then not flirting. Each day I kept thinking he’s interested/he’s not interested and it was confusing. I think his intention was to make me think he liked me to see what he could get before turning round and saying I’d got the wrong idea.
I’m so glad I never got involved with him more than messaging after our initial meeting, I think it would have been a bad experience. I felt a few times that he was laughing at me, which is what my ex used to do. If he genuinely wanted to be my friend he wouldn’t have acted funny when I asked him about the woman, and he also would have not laughed at me nor abandoned the friendship once I got suspicious about him.

[SunshineRainflower]

So sorry to hear this. It’s a horrible time right now especially.
When you say they’ve gone, could you still contact them to build a bridge? I spoke to an old friend recently. We were never good friends but I appreciate any social interaction at all at the moment as long as people are supportive and respectful.
Do you have any neighbours you can talk to? There are local WhatsApp groups for a lot of places. Some areas have set up helplines where people volunteer to ring others who just need a chat. You can message me any time for a chat too.
Also are you getting any support from women’s aid like a local domestic abuse team?

[SunshineRainflower]

Thanks KIP and Same again. I think I read your replies as they were first and there were 2 more I missed. Your comment about my writing really cheered me up Same, that’s very kind of you. It made me feel better about applying for jobs. I often feel so out of touch job wise and feel hopeless about getting back into work but it’s good to remember I have skills and abilities and qualifications that nobody can take away from me.
I think you shared about your situation Same and I felt very sad to hear what you are going through. I will message you about it. xx

[SunshineRainflower]

Sorry you are leaving Braelynn, that is sad, but you have to do what is right for you. Thanks for creating this sanctuary. Maybe it will keep going, maybe it will get taken over by the brambles before somebody else stumbles across it and dusts it down.

I forgot to reply to your reply on here. I am ok thank you, I just feel very depressed at everything going on. All my support has been removed. I feel like I’m surrounded by brainwashed zombies. I just want to go back to my volunteer job and rebuild my life.

On the other hand, I see an opportunity, maybe to move, in the future anyway, and start working towards it now. To start afresh. My volunteer job was lovely but I wasn’t making any friends there, and each winter when it closed down I felt so alone as everyone returned to their families. So I was thinking last year, it’s not really enough. I needed some kind of change in my life but wasn’t sure what. So maybe now is the time to start looking for that change. Still not sure what but things that mean in the near future at least I can make friends and build my life back up.

[SunshineRainflower]

Yes, I’m currently not able to work as a result of my mental health and one of my diagnoses is CPTSD. Unfortunately yes I have the problems with memory. I wrote down a timeline of my life and have it up on my noticeboard as it helps me remember things. Certain years are much more hazy than others, I think it’s because I had major depressive episodes during those times.

[Author]

Posts