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Your post really hit home with me. I recognise so many of those feelings- the panic, the nightmares and the doubt. The uncertainty about the future is so horrible and there are layers of self-doubt, guilt and anger all wrapped up together.

Stay strong in your conviction. You know that you had to leave for yourself and your daughter. Things would only get worse if you stayed.

Reminding yourself of the reasons for leaving is so important (your memory of it will fade) so keep making those lists and also writing up the details of incidents to look back on in the future.  I recorded our everyday discussions when I was deciding to leave a few years ago. I was listening back to them recently (as part of a therapy exercise) and the whole weight of the horror hit me again. This is so important to do if you can because in years to come you’ll doubt your experience.

The other thing is to know that things will get better. The panic will fade and you will fit into your new life. Lean on the people around you and stay strong.

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Sorry for the slow reply.
Thank you all so much for your helpful thoughts and suggestions. So sorry that you’ve experienced such awful situations at the hands of abusers.
The obvious take-away from all of this is that they don’t change however much we bend over backwards to ‘do the right thing’, or get the right help, and we are not to blame.
Stay strong xx

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This is an update after quite a few months of couples and family counselling.
So, you probably all know that you were right! – any sort of therapy with an abuser is not going to help them understand or change their behaviour.
It was actually a mixed bag in the end. As expected, he lied, twisted the truth, denied his behaviour, accepted no responsibility and used what he learned to try and manipulate and control me. No surprise there. He didn’t take anything positive from it and it didn’t improve his behaviour at all. In fact, it got worse as he had more opportunities to manipulate me.
BUT
The therapist was absolutely brilliant. She saw the situation exactly as it was. She told him he had been (and continued to be) abusive towards me and the kids, that his behaviour was the problem and that he needed individual therapy for addiction and behavioural issues if he was ever going to rebuild his relationship with the kids.
I felt really seen and heard and it has given me some strength in my own view of the situation.
It was a risk, and I wouldn’t recommend it as it could easily have gone the other way (I’ve also ended up with the massive bill), but it has helped me to see the situation from an external perspective.
Stay strong ladies x

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I can relate so much to this too.
Remember that the gut wrench you have is for something that isn’t there anymore. Like Bananaboat says, it’s a form of grief.

I went back after having left. When I left I thought it would be for good, but I found things so hard – practically and emotionally. I ended up going back after a few months and tried really hard to make things work. It wasn’t long before it was unbearable again.

When I left again it was for good. It hasn’t been a year yet and many days are hard – it certainly isn’t the fairytale of the little safe, calm, happy space (sleeping with the enemy-style). But things are getting better slowly and there are more and more moments of joy.

Good idea to keep a hold of what reality was like with him, remembering the bad bits (but also allowing memories of good times in the past, realising these are no longer possible in the present or future).

Sending strength and love xx

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Thank you HFH. This has really made me think.

I was set on taking what I thought would be the path of least resistance (appease and pacify, as usual, in the hope of slipping away quietly) but your comment has shifted my focus.
I’m still so scared of upsetting him despite having left. It’s conditioning after such a long marriage. But it means that I don’t speak my truth. Maybe the truth would be kinder for everyone than this charade?!

Hope things are bearable in your world xx

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As a bit of an update on this, we are starting counselling. The aim is to approach our separation and divorce in the most positive way for the kids.
Thanks for all your advice, I take on board all the warnings above and I’m fully expecting that he will try to use the counselling to manipulate and control me, play the victim and present me as an abuser/crazy.
BUT, I’m hoping that it will be a safe space for me to refute his claims and work out how to get through this, kindly and sensibly. And ultimately, I will know I have tried every avenue to make this separation work.
(as I write this I’m just imagining rereading it in a few months time and despairing at my naivety)

I feel that counselling may be my opportunity to peel off some of the octopus tentacles that he has stuck onto me. I just want him to leave me alone – I’m exhausted by the constant calls, texts, dramas, accusations – and I don’t think he will calm down until he has some peace. He needs to hear that I believe his story, that his behaviour was justified because he was ill, or that I provoked his more recent behaviour by leaving. It’s a fine line of conceding some space to him on the one hand and justifying his abuse on the other.
(again I’m thinking this may be horribly naïve, and it also feels like I’m playing the manipulation game now too)

Really struggling to think clearly, any thoughts welcome!

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Hi Bluesbear,
The police won’t contact your partner about this. He will not find out you have made this application for information.
The police will share the information with you and you can then decide what to do. They will be able to offer you support and direct you towards relevant services. He will not be involved.
Take care xx

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Yes! I have had this too.
It must be a coping mechanism. You are able to block it all out of your own personal experience and separate the rest of your life off. It’s weird but probably a really helpful way of getting through the tough time just after you leave.
I found, once the reality started to creep in, that I was really really angry (especially about him swanning around in our house while i was scrabbling to pay rent for a damp dump). Make sure you have lots of support around you to help you through the various emotions.
This forum is great for a vent!
And well done for achieving all that you have. xx

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Hiya@,
Thanks for replying.
It is certainly another battle, and I’ve been surprised by the ferocity of it. Each day is different – some are great and some are grim. We probably all post more on the grim days, but it’s good to hear of great ones too!
I’m glad you reached out. Keep posting whenever you feel the urge.
Stay safe and strong. We’ve got this.
xx

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Haha, Camel, you are so right! It is absolutely ridiculous.
The idea is to communicate better as a separated couple so we can co-parent effectively. But I know that this too is ridiculous, he will never be able to communicate sensibly with me.
I’m clinging on to trying to be kind, and still doing what he asks for fear of upsetting him if I don’t. At some point I’m going to give up on that and probably cut contact, but I’m not quite there yet.
Hope all is OK and the sun is shining for you this weekend.

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Thank you, Ewemoon.
‘He has lost which is why he is ramping up the drama, debts and rages’ – you are so right. And that’s exactly why it becomes so dangerous when they find out you are leaving and for some time after you leave.
For me and the kids it’s (almost entirely) psychological/emotional/financial, but there are small acts of violence, which keeps the threat of bigger stuff always there at the back of my mind.
Even now I’m bending over backwards not to upset him.
Sending lots of positive energy your way. xx

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This is poetic and beautifully evocative.
I wish it wasn’t true

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I’m so sorry to hear what you are going through. His behaviour is abusive and dangerous to you and the kids. It is also criminal.
No-one should have to put up with being treated in that way.

It would be worth thinking about a longer term plan – are you going to leave? do you want him to leave? how can you manage this in a way that will keep you and the kids safe? You local WA will be able to help with that.

But you also have an immediate issue – the holiday. Are you still going to go?- is there a way to safely cancel it?
If you are going to go, what can you do to keep you and the kids safe? IME things ramp up and become much more tense on holiday (we were once escorted through a foreign airport by armed guards ready for deportation because he kicked off with airport staff). So, if he’s going to be in a stressed place, you and the kids will be in the firing line. What can you do to keep yourselves safe?
I tended to spend holidays being as meek and amenable as possible just to reduce the extent of outbursts. This is probably not something that the professionals would encourage, but it was a way of surviving with the least damage.

I really feel for you right now. Get as much advice as you can.
Stay safe xx

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Thank you so much for replying.
I feel really seen and understood by your insightful response (although I’m sorry that you are speaking from a place of experience).
I do have support. I’m incredibly lucky with family and friends, and frankly I don’t think I would have left without them.
The kids are great too. I just have one left at home now and we have developed a lovely little routine together. It’s just so sad the relationship with their dad has broken down to this extent. None of them are speaking to him because his behaviour is so problematic (directly towards them as well as towards me) – but obviously that’s all my fault as usual!
I like the idea of a glass shield. I think mine’s going to have to be slightly porous until the legal stuff gets underway, but at least it will prevent the worst of those tentacles getting through.
Yesterday was a tough day, today will be brighter.
I hope your day has moments of peace, light and joy xxx

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I think that’s exactly it – you go into survival mode when you’re being yelled at, you get caught up in the feeling of being attacked, try to defend yourself, and the details get lost.
Sometimes the argument is so convoluted and the points don’t follow logically so it can be hard to remember. Also, there’s so much of it! – so many words and it goes on and on.
My ex shouts for an hour than asks me to summarise what I’ve understood from the ‘discussion’. It sets me up to fail because I have forgotten half of it by then – even if I remembered perfectly and recited word-for-word I’d be wrong!
But, ultimately, even if you can’t remember the details, you remember how you feel. And you felt angry and upset – that’s what’s most important.

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‘If he only applied the same determination to getting a job!!!’ 🤣🤣
Brilliant. Laughed out loud at that.
So very true!!
But of course, raging, arguing, belittling, sulking and causing drama are a full time job all of their own.
Thanks for the laugh, needed it tonight.🫶

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Hi DH,
All the things you describe are examples of abuse. Your ex is now in another relationship and sadly the pattern will almost certainly continue with this new person, but you have broken free.
It’s so hard when you leave because you remember the good times, you think of the good things that might have been and you minimise the abuse. It might be helpful, if you haven’t already, to write a list of all the things that were a problem. Write in as much detail as you can and try to remember how hopeless, trapped and degraded you felt. Write it all down and read it whenever you’re missing him or questioning yourself.
I also had panic attacks and sleep disruption when I was in the turmoil of leaving and for a while after I left. The GP helped. It might be worth a call to your GP to see if they can suggest something.
I’m sure you know about trauma bonds and the cycle of abuse (like alternating the stick and carrot). The effects of these don’t disappear when you leave. It will take time to get back to a fully functioning version of you. Don’t give yourself a hard time for feeling rubbish. You will get there. Stay positive and strong. xx

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Hi,
It’s not small at all. It’s a drip drip effect and it all builds up together to grind you down and make you feel worthless. Any response you have will get used against you – nothing you do is right. It’s exhausting.
Just know that you haven’t created this. His behaviour is not that of a reasonable adult.
Sending hugs. Stay strong xx

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Thank you 1234F and HFH,
It’s really useful to hear your thoughts and experiences. Your posts make a lot of sense to me and I think ultimately I know that couples counselling isn’t the right approach here. You’re right in what you’re saying about continued control and the victim narrative.
BUT, I’m feeling bullied into agreeing – it’s the same old pattern of me agreeing to something I don’t want to do because the repercussions of not doing it are worse. If I don’t agree, it will lead to constant texts and calls berating me and saying I’m ruining the kids lives, it will become part of the smear campaign painting me as a bad/uncaring mother, mentally unstable, that I lie about my experiences etc, and I’ll have his family telling the kids I’m the problem. Maybe it’s easier to just do what he wants (in the hope that the counsellor will see it and call it out).
But the worst thing for me is that internal niggle that perhaps he’s right, perhaps I am ruining the kids lives, perhaps we do need to go to therapy to have a more peaceful future and if I don’t then I haven’t done everything possible to help the kids through this.
Sorry, another rant!

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Hi, I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
It sounds like a solicitor would be able to help – you can get free half hour consultations or speak to a solicitor at your local WA drop-in sessions (ring up to check).
I don’t think you can be forced to pay half the mortgage if you’re not living there but it will depend on how much you earn compared to him and if your child stays there at all.
Good luck and stay strong.
Let us know how you get on…
xx

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Oh Pookie1, I totally understand what you’re going through. I’m in a very similar position and really related to your post – financial insecurity, blame and guilt tripping, gaslighting, self doubt – it’s a horrible cycle to be stuck in. You think that leaving will be the turning point and things will get better from then, but it feels like it just shifts into a new kind of abuse.
At least now you can shut the door on it, turn you phone off and create some peace in your calm, abuse-free space. You have more control over the situation than you had before, and as things progress with lawyers, divorce and the financial separation you will have less that ties you and less than can be used against you. For now, take comfort in the small things that are just about you (I enjoyed getting up this morning and drinking coffee without the fear of him waking up in a foul mood, raging, lecturing me on everything I do wrong and demanding I respond to all his needs).
I know what you mean when you say you don’t understand how another human can treat someone else this way. It probably comes from his own deep-rooted hatred of himself, but it may be best not to try to decipher, and instead, just know that it’s not about you (whatever he says). Stay strong, keep positive.
Sending hugs. xx

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Thank you to you all for sharing your experiences.
xx

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Ugh, I know this feeling, nbumblebee. It’s utterly debilitating.
Don’t listen to the nastiness. In your heart you know it’s not true. Stay strong and dig deep to remember who you are at your core.
It will get better. Small steps.
Sending you a big ole virtual hug. Xxx

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This sounds strikingly similar to my situation. I totally understand your concerns about quality of life after divorce. When I threatened to leave my ex said that he would ruin me financially and emotionally, take me to court for neglect (of him since he has a medical condition) and for being an unfit mother. He said I would end up penniless as I’d have to give most of my wages to him to keep the family home going.
I took all his claims to a solicitor and she actually laughed at the amount of rubbish I’d been told.

It’s true that divorce is expensive and you may need to cut back for a while to get through it. But when you are ready to make the break it will be worth it.
I hope the solicitor you have contacted provides you with some practical advice on how this will play out. You should seek a free advice session from several different solicitors then choose the approach that suits you best. The first one I spoke to suggested an all-guns-blazing approach (Non-Mol Order, get him out of the house etc) while the second was much gentler and understood my need to reduce conflict.

Present all your concerns and fears to the solicitor. They will be able to sort out the fact from the fiction. By arming yourself with some facts you’ll be in a stronger position and it will feel less like running headlong into the dark.
Wishing you luck.

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Your post really struck me. That period of wavering (has he changed? should I go back?) is horrific. You feel torn up by guilt, self doubt and confusion.
I succumbed and went back twice. I will never do that again.
Obviously each relationship is different but I think the general experience on this forum is that this type of man is incapable of change. He may put on a good show for a while but the mask will quickly slip. The fact you say he has denied and minimised what he’s done and guilt tripped/blamed you shows you that he hasn’t taken responsibility and therefore won’t be able to change.
Stay strong, stay positive.

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Thanks FL, great to hear your positive experiences. You hit the nail bang on when you said the therapy has allowed you to trust yourself and see the behaviour for what it is. Ultimately, I know what I experience is abuse but I can’t seem to let go of the need for external validation just yet!
It’s hard to unpick years/decades of gaslighting and manipulation and it’s reassuring to know that it is possible.
xx

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Thank you Twitcher. That’s brilliant that the counsellor spotted the signs and referred you for specialist support. I will ask my GP what they can offer.
I hope things are moving forward for you – (smoothly, if that is at all possible!).
Divorce is such an isolating thing. Mix in an abusive partner and a lot of self-doubt and you have got a trainwreck of chaos.
Stay strong and believe in yourself xx

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Thank you. Great advice. Hope today is a good one for you xx

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nbumblebee, I can really empathise with where you are. But you are not a coward. Everyone’s situation is different. Everyone experiencing this is brave, whether they have left or stayed.

Something that helped me was remembering that you can’t change the behaviour of another person, only your responses to it. So even when you are living in the middle of it and feeling totally helpless, there will be small things you can do to rise above. You’re right that reading posts may help, also, talking to friends as much as you can, speaking to a counsellor or sometimes just taking a moment to breathe and remember what an amazing woman you are.
And you DO deserve the right to peace.
xx

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I totally understand where you’re coming from. I can hear your confusion and a real sense of feeling trapped. I’m not sure if it helps, but know that you are not alone. Reaching out to WA is a great step towards beginning to understand things and move things forward, whatever way that will be.

One thing that helped me understand my experience is talking about it with friends who had witnessed his behaviour (and telling them about things they didn’t see). It felt disloyal at first and I resisted for many years, but once I started it all came out. It really helped me to see things without the smoke screen that he generated around our life.

Mental and physical health issues may well influence behaviour but they can’t justify abuse.

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