Camel

[Camel]

Whether or not it’s abuse it can’t go on. You could make an appointment with Citizens Advice for free debt management advice. You should get a credit report first so you have a complete picture. These can be free, look online. You need to be aware of what debt is yours, what is shared and what is his alone.

You say ‘we are paying’ quite often, in relation to debt you didn’t know about. It makes me wonder how your household finances are managed. Do you have separate or joint accounts? Which account are bills paid from? Do you see all the bills? I know you’ve not been good with money but you need to take control. It’s scary but essential and you could set up a plan to be debt free in a few years.

[Camel]

You’re right to make a big deal of this. I mean, even if ‘massaging’ a sore throat was a thing (which it isn’t) you knew that wasn’t what he was actually doing. Everything he did that night was scary. Putting his hands on you, getting angry, dismissing your feelings, blaming you for over-reacting, pretending to be joking, kicking something and using abusive language.

Was this a one-off or part of a pattern of behaviour?

[Camel]

You found your way to this forum because you feel like you’re being abused and are looking for answers. I think this is more important that how many ‘yesses’ there were on the quiz. Doesn’t the one ‘yes’ count?

I don’t think there’s anywhere to go for help with ‘angry partners.’ After all, your husband isn’t an angry person with everyone. He chooses when to blow up and who will get the brunt of it. So, I wonder if his ‘anger’ is genuine. Could it, perhaps, be a tried and trusted method of control?

You don’t trust his ‘good’ moods and don’t understand his ‘angry’ moods. You are at the mercy of his whims, and to make matters worse, so is your daughter. How many times a day do you modify your behaviour? How often do you deny yourself things because he wouldn’t like it? You’re doing all the emotional labour to make your relationship just about bearable. He couldn’t care less. Why is it up to you to work out how to live with his anger?

Self-labelling your wholly justified feelings of distress and unhappiness as ‘over sensitive’ is plain wrong. Your feelings matter. Listen to your gut.

 

[Camel]

The bottom line is, you were unhappy, you gave him every chance to be different but he only promised to make those changes once you actually left. That’s simply not good enough. It’s all just word soup. You did the right thing and don’t really need anyone to back up your decision. Nevertheless we all do back you up xx

[Camel]

Your abuser has created a situation where whatever you do it will be the wrong choice. Can you see that everything she says is contradictory? She wants you to go. She doesn’t want you to go. How on earth are you supposed to make rational decisions when you’re dealing with such irrational outburst from her? You are shouldering all the emotional baggage in this relationship. That’s not fair is it? Try to remember that you are only responsible for your own well being. She is entirely responsible for hers.

[Camel]

Anyone would feel numb after fearing for their life and surviving. You are incredibly strong so I don’t think you need to worry that you’ll be crushed when you start to process everything. You gave your abuser another chance and you suffered greatly. You’ve changed and know you had a lucky escape. He, on the other hand, hasn’t changed. He’s using the same old tactics to get you back. Feeling unmoved by his texts is powerful. I expect that feeling nothing is very strange after months of feeling everything all at once.

[Camel]

Although you say your husband is planning on moving out, you don’t actually say he’s planning a divorce. All his talk of legal advice, alienation and custody arrangements are meaningless until such time as divorce papers are served. Moving out doesn’t free him from his financial obligations either.

I believe that you will feel less confused once you take back control.

Get independent legal advice, preferably someone who understands the dynamics of abuse.

Get strong financial advice too. Your husband may have got rich by keeping you poor whilst married, not so once divorced. Gather evidence – income, pensions, savings, bank accounts, credit cards, debts and loans. If you can’t find it, don’t worry, he will be obligated to reveal everything if you make the division of assets part of divorce proceedings.

As for your concerns re. how he’s unequipped to care for your youngest, I’d suggest trying not to worry too much about something that’s way off in the future. I expect it’s all talk but when he brings up childcare be non-comital and reasonable. Agree to share, he’s their father, like it or not. You can go to court later, if you have genuine concerns and evidence of neglect.

Whatever you do, don’t get sidetracked by obstacles he puts in your way. And don’t allow him to take the lead. Do what you need to do to keep the peace but take control. Quietly and secretly.

[Camel]

Yes, it’s abuse. It doesn’t matter that you’re only just starting to see it for what it is. Your feelings are never wrong but its in your partner’s interests to persuade you that you ARE wrong. You acknowledge that you’ve wanted to leave for years. In a relationship with a non-abuser you would have left by now.

You should accept that you can’t discuss leaving with your abuser. You can’t talk about how you feel, what you want or need for a happy life. You know this already as you’ve tried before.

Accept, too, that no one has the right to punish you for not measuring up to their standards. If you truly have been unloving, uncaring, and so on, why is she so keen to keep you there? Blaming you, making you feel guilty, making you believe you are responsible for her happiness and well-being…these are simply the actions of a controlling abuser and not the actions of a loving partner who sees you as their equal.

You don’t need to try harder. You’re an individual with the absolute right to do what you want, even if that means staying in a hotel over Christmas.

You absolutely do not need her permission to leave.

[Camel]

It might be useful to understand what constitutes controlling behaviour. The legal definition is acts designed to make a person feel inferior and/or dependent by keeping them apart from friends, help and support. It can include taking advantage of their money and things they have, stopping their independence, and controlling what they want to do.

So, you’re not stopping your abuser see his family, therefore you’re not trying to isolate or control them.

Neither are you taking advantage of them financially. You’re actually trying to stop them taking advantage of your cash.

Words are important. You’re not controlling, you’re asserting control. And this control is absolutely justified. It’s your house, your money. These are not strictly boundaries, they’re simply your rules. If getting them to adhere to these rules is a constant battle then you’ll see that they are actually the controlling one, not you.

[Camel]

He’s ‘going to’ change. He’s ‘going to do’ a Respect programme. He’s not actually ‘doing’, is he?
He says he’s having therapy. Good for him, if it’s true.
His letter admits he was abusive, which is handy. File it away as evidence. Don’t respond.

[Camel]

Hi there, sorry this is a late reply. I’m so pleased it went well for you. You were fortunate to get a counsellor who saw your ex for what he is. Well, you did what your ex asked, and paid for it. Hopefully he’s leaving you in peace.

[Camel]

This is most definitely domestic abuse. You don’t trust your instincts and think you’re overreacting, you’re crazy. You must understand that this is all his doing. He’s messed with your head. If he did all these terrible things to you at the start, would you have begged to be with him? He’s worn you down and whittled away your sense of self, so now you find yourself desperate to stay with this awful excuse for a human being. He doesn’t have the right to punish you for not measuring up to his set of rules. And by the way, if you stay with him, his rules with keep changing and it’ll get harder and harder to please him and stop his abuse.

[Camel]

Hi Chasingrainbows

Have you started divorce proceedings yet? Getting the court to make a financial order is the best way to ensure that you get your fair share of assets. This includes the house, the shared business, pensions (state and private), savings (and debts) and child maintenance payments. It will cost you more in the short term but it’s the only way forward when you don’t have visibility of the finances. You should mention things like the minimum wage you were paid from the business. Your finances are complex and I believe it would be a mistake not to involve professionals. I think you need someone to look at the family finances in their entirety, to make sure you get your share but also to ensure you’re not left liable for loans or debts from the business.

[Camel]

You know leaving is the only realistic option for you. Decide which possessions are truly important to you – what would you grab if the house was on fire? Everything else is simply an anchor, keeping you stuck there.

Don’t feel sorry for causing him more hurt when he’s the one dishing out all the hurt.

All you really need is a plane ticket, somewhere to stay and a good lawyer. Ask your daughter to help you.

[Camel]

Hi Selfish,

Is the slate truly wiped clean by a couple of months of tolerable behaviour? He may be treating you a little better but it’s meaningless if it comes out of the blue in the same way his rages do. Your happiness should not depend on his happiness. You’re still watching him like a hawk. He still controls your state of mind.

You must take care of your own emotional well-being (and that of your children.) Is this selfish? Yes, of course it’s selfish to prioritise your own interests. But it’s good-selfish. It’s necessary-selfish. And not totally selfish when you’re thinking of the kids’ interests too.

It’s normal to have feelings of guilt but these are false feelings as you haven’t done anything wrong. He should feel guilty and ashamed, not you. Don’t give these feelings too much space in your head. Likewise, ignore well-meant but inept and damaging advice from family and friends. It’s probably best not to go to them for advice or tell them what’s going on – could they take his side? You need strong supporters only in your corner.

[Camel]

You ended your first post with a question, basically asking if his possible depression means you have to stay. The short answer is no. Being dreadfully unhappy is reason enough for you to leave. The odd good day isn’t reason enough to stay. You deserve to be happy and content.

[Camel]

There’s absolutely nothing selfish about wanting to take things slowly. There’s no rule that says you have to move in together, share your finances, compromise on your dreams or even accommodate his quirky ways. If you’re happy with the way things are, spending time together on your terms, don’t feel pressured to change the set up. If he wants to rush ahead into a committed relationship I’d see this as a problem. Maybe you’ll drift apart if he doesn’t get what he wants but take that as a sign that he wasn’t ‘the one’ at all. You don’t have to compromise on your hard-won independence just because he’s a nice guy. I don’t think you need to lay your cards on the table. Relax and see how things pan out.

[Camel]

I don’t think it matters at all what he ‘intended’ or even if it was ‘abuse’. What is important is how you felt, how you still feel. You know things were ‘off’ and didn’t feel right. You are not dramatising anything.

[Camel]

Has he moved into your place? If he’s not on the lease you can get him removed. Saying he’s saving for a deposit is a delaying tactic, for sure. He can put it on a credit card and pay it off in his own time, not yours. Whatever, give him a deadline (a couple of weeks tops). Don’t negotiate.

Stop taking his money for household bills. Tell him to put it towards his own expenses. Work out how you’re going to manage without his contribution – and how much you can save when you’re not catering for him.

Don’t engage in discussions about anything except him leaving. Don’t feel bad about sleeping with him. We’ve all done similar. You’ve been frank and told him it changes nothing. And it doesn’t. (But don’t do it again if you want to keep your sanity.)

If he’s your plus-one for the wedding, tell him he’s no longer invited. He shouldn’t need this explaining. He’s simply using every tactic available. He’ll stick around for as long as you try to be fair and reasonable. But he isn’t playing fair so you shouldn’t.

[Camel]

The only way of knowing is to see what he does next time he goes out. Or if you feel sick after an argument. Or if you feel things are off kilter. It may not be ‘abuse’. Perhaps he’s selfish, immature, thoughtless? But remember, this is the honeymoon period – as good as it’s going to get – and maybe it’s not as good as you deserve. Listen to your gut and respect your own boundaries. Relationships don’t need to be hard work and full of drama. It’s OK if you decide it’s not working for you. It’s all progress.

[Camel]

You describe yourself as over-thinking, over-emotional, selfish, undeserving and paranoid. You’re not any of these things. Trust yourself and ignore the inner critic.

Remember that couples separate all the time. Worry only about those things you can control. People cope – and it’s not your problem if they don’t. You’re leaving an unhappy relationship, not committing murder.

[Camel]

Hi Lovethesea

How are you? I’ve come to this quite late so maybe he moved out and you’re moving on. It’s a shame you felt you weren’t being heard, that wrong assumptions were made. It seems to be the norm for new ladies on the forum to ask ‘is this abuse?’ Your first post was different, calling out his abuse in the first line – nasty verbal attacks when you do something ‘wrong’ or ‘not how he likes it.’ Without doubt you are deeply empathic – he never had to blame his childhood experiences because you did that for him. He said sorry but did it again anyway. You say men are never given the chance to change, yet every woman on here has given their abusers countless chances. Every woman on here will tell you how lovely their partner was in the beginning and how they hang on for glimpses of how he was. Not all victims of abuse are frightened into submission. Many describe themselves as strong, argue back, stand their ground, believe it’s not really abuse if they don’t get hit. Every story is different. Yet, every story is the same – A woman asking ‘is it really that bad?’ You don’t have to call it abuse. You don’t have to say he’s an abuser. But you do need to know that good relationships are never, ever this destructive.

[Camel]

I’ve had relationships end with ‘normal’ men. Sometimes I ended it, sometimes they did. It wasn’t working out for one reason or another, so we split up, just like that. Of course, there was surprise, sadness, upset, disappointment and even anger. But isn’t it interesting, the complete absence of self-doubt?

Maybe even thinking about red lines should be warning enough?

[Camel]

This guy made you feel responsible for him and his happiness. And your happiness depended entirely upon his happiness. Your depression didn’t cause you to be a rubbish partner, it was caused by being in a relationship with a controlling and coercive abuser. Your guilt is misplaced as it implies wrongdoing on your part. Accept that you’ve had a lucky escape from a man who escalated his abuse every time you tried to assert yourself. You are obviously still processing a lot of what happened and that’s a good thing. Take plenty of time to understand yourself and your boundaries. x

[Camel]

Yes, you have financial ties but fortunately they are minimal and you can (and should) take steps to sever them.

If both your names are on a tenancy agreement then you are both liable for the rent. You need to remove yourself from the tenancy. How you do this depends on whether it’s a fixed term or a month to month. You are jointly liable for all rent remaining on a fixed term. If your partner refuses to pay then the landlord can come after both of you. It’s really important to read the detail of the agreement – when it ends, if you need to give notice.

However, often fixed term tenancies turn into rolling tenancies once the initial fixed term is up. If you haven’t signed a new fixed term agreement and you’ve been a tenant longer than the initial term, then you have a rolling tenancy. In this situation you only need to issue the landlord with a notice to quit (send it recorded). You don’t need your partner’s permission or agreement. He can stay in the property but this will need to be renegotiated between him and the landlord. You won’t need to get involved though you might struggle to get your share of the deposit back.

You will also be tied financially on household bills – council tax, utilities, broadband, streaming and so on. As soon as you quit the tenancy you’ll need to remove your name from bills. This may mean paying off any arrears. Give them a forwarding address so you’re always aware of any issues.

Individuals named on a joint bank account are legally allowed to withdraw all the money. Both parties are liable if the account is in the red, regardless of who spent it. So it’s really important to get your name removed. You’ll need to speak to your bank as a priority, before you leave. If you can’t get your name removed, ask them what they can do to protect you from his debt.

In theory, married partners equally share assets and debts. However, the division of assets isn’t automatically handled during the divorce. As you have no major assets such as property you should be able to walk away with minimal hassle. But get a detailed credit check, just in case there’s debt he’s created in your name. Change passwords to your personal bank accounts and maybe remove apps from your phone until you’ve moved out. Better safe than sorry.

Regarding the images he has of you, unfortunately you can’t stop him distributing them. But, if he does this without your consent, or even threatens to do it, he faces up to 2 years in prison if found guilty. I totally get why you’re scared but try not allow something that may or may not happen keep you trapped.

Try to focus only on the stuff you have control over. And, honestly, you’re closer to leaving than you think. Sort the finances, then you’re free to go. 🙂

[Camel]

Hi Lost Lady

I’d be inclined to seek out a new solicitor. Your solicitor should represent you and your interests and giving you ‘worse case scenario’ is really not helpful. I am not a legal expert in any way whatsoever but I do like to do research. Here’s some stuff I found…

Spousal support is only awarded in very specific circumstances. And being unwilling to work isn’t one of them. Ability to pay is taken into account. It’s generally awarded if there’s a significant difference in income.
https://www.mediateuk.co.uk/guide-to-spousal-maintenance/

I was surprised to find out that courts no longer deal with ‘custody’ of children as part of divorce proceedings. Instead it’s hoped that parents will work things out themselves. If that’s not possible you will need to go through a legal process.
https://www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce/apply-for-court-order

Sole custody is only ever granted if it can be legally proven that the other parent is unfit. Being anxious and depressed isn’t evidence of being unfit. However, these are not simply empty threats, they are evidence of control and coercion, and it won’t look good for anyone using these tactics in a court of law.

Regarding the house, you may need to get a court order to force the sale. It’s complicated…
https://hawkinsfamilylaw.co.uk/family-law-advice/who-gets-the-house-in-a-divorce/

[Camel]

Everyone’s experience will be different. Personally, I never missed my ex or had any lingering good feelings about the relationship or him. I did spend a whole lot of time and energy stewing over the abuse though, same as you. Eventually I simply refused to give him any more space in my head. I think there comes a point when dissecting the past becomes damaging. We have to allow ourselves to move on.

[Camel]

You need to protect yourself against his constant bullying, coercion and control. You shouldn’t still feel too afraid to stand your ground.

You have every right to limit contact solely to discuss childcare. You don’t have to let him into your home. You don’t have to respond to his emails or texts. His way of communicating isn’t working for you. So, decide what works for you.

[Camel]

Hi Versoz

I googled the rules on spousal maintenance as I had no idea it was a thing for normal income couples. You really have nothing to worry about.
https://www.mediateuk.co.uk/guide-to-spousal-maintenance/

No doubt he’s in receipt of invalidity benefits. (If not, he should be!) Once you separate he’ll be able to claim a load of other benefits too. The state will take care of him so he can’t say he’s unable to financially support himself. This is the only criteria for deciding if spousal support should be paid.

From what you say, you will probably be financially better off after divorce. You’re managing now on your income and will have your share of assets (the house) if you sell.

[Camel]

What’s yours is mine, what’s mine is my own…

Your options are limited. Increase your personal income? Sell stuff? Reduce your contribution to household expenses?

If he’s forcing you into debt, it’s financial abuse. Maybe you could have a chat with your bank or citizens advice?

[Author]

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